Passages from Ashes of Prospero (spoilers)

[Guest]

I thought people might like some passages from AoP, as I did with Dark Imperium. I always recommend you to buy the book so you can get the full picture instead of snapshots. My quotes are going to only concern the Primaris, Russ, and the SW/Fenris current conditions. This will hopefully calm people's fear of things to come or at least widen their knowledge to accept what may come.

 

I am in the process of reading the book still so I will be updating it as I read. I am only posting early so I don't lose progress and have to rewrite all of it, still waiting for a video card for my PC so doing this on phone. If you have questions ask away. I will not be discussing the story though.

 

 

"There was something about these new warriors (Primaris) that did not sit easily with Njal and the other senior warriors of the Chapter. The recruits were another step removed from those they protected and Grimnar had, in privacy, voiced his concerns that it might again fall to the Space Wolves to police the ambitions of their Brother-Chapters"

 

"But what else?’ demanded Logan, stepping closer, his insistence rolling from him like waves of heat. ‘The Eye has opened. What of the Wolf King?’.....‘No sign?’

‘None, my lord. There are stirrings, tempests through which even I cannot gaze. Even so, I saw a sleeper entombed in rock, and a white storm that rode upon a chariot of lightning. A shadow rises to the call of the Allfather’s messengers, a darkness that strikes from within. The benighted ones turn their supernal gazes upon our worlds – the Eater of Worlds, the Corpse-King and the Misbegotten Child move once more. The Cyclopean Fiend, we have already seen. Even the Golden One has broken his gaze from the Empyrean again. I felt its glare like a fire in my soul.

‘But nothing pertaining to the Sons of Fenris. Though the Thirteenth have come back and the Eye has opened, I saw nothing of Leman Russ’ return."

 

" (Recruitment) Continues. But we cannot drag blood from the rocks. Dozens of tribes were lost to Magnus’ spite, and Grand Master Aurikon’s purgings curtailed their numbers further. It is of no benefit to take those who will not pass the tests, nor to lower our standards. We are recovering, but it is a slow process, Njal."

 

"Who can say what Cawl’s tampering with the gene-seed has done to the Canis Helix?’ Grimnar dropped his voice to a conspiratorial whisper. ‘The wulfen-curse is still there, but are the Primaris Marines stronger against it, or weaker?"

 

"Losses among the tribe folk had meant the thaw season hunts had not slain anywhere near their usual count of trolls, ice bears and other fierce predators. In turn, vermin and lower creatures had fled their territories, infesting the food stores, taking what little had survived the devastation. The most gigantic monsters – drakes and krakens, fyr-ent and leviathans – rampaged at will, taking nearly as many folk as the war and the brutal purges of the Grey Knights. Whole communities had been lost and the Great Wolf had despaired even as he had sent more and more of his warriors off-world to combat the burgeoning threats across the stars."

 

"And from this last concern, Arjac had divined Logan Grimnar’s greatest fear. The Space Wolves were of their people. If the people died, so too did the Chapter. The Canis Helix and Fenrisian blood were inextricably linked. If the Chapter was to replace its losses, if there was to be a new generation of Space Wolves, every town, tribe and village was as precious as gemstones."

 

"He (Arjac) glanced back at Rangvaldr, Magnhild and the others. His gaze settled on fiery-haired Tyra. He really did not want to have to slay them for the unwitting crime of meeting a daemon."

 

"(Njal states the divide between Fenris and the warp had thinned after Magnus came) The world of the Space Wolves had always occupied a space closer than usual to the immaterium. It was this proximity to the realm of dreams and nightmares that was the source of their runelore, and perhaps the secret to the Canis Helix bound within the Space Wolves’ gene-seed, a gift from the Allfather to keep at bay the temptations of the dark gods"

 

"‘Bulveye?’ The name was instantly known to Njal. For the past several years, more and more of the lost 13th Company had reappeared, each warrior and squad bringing with them their own tales of being trapped in the warp and breaking free from the Eye of Terror. In that time, Njal had studied the oldest records, gathering names of those that had been lost. The names of all those still missing were forged hard in his memory. ‘The Old Wolf.’"

 

"‘Just sons?’ said Tyra, her humour edged with a hard look. ‘Perhaps there is more water that must learn to flow.’ (speaking of using females for Marines)

Arjac looked at this fierce woman, the sharp spear held easily in her hand, and recalled that she had overcome her fear not with psychodoctrination but raw courage. She had been the first to run to aid him against the wyrm, whether he needed her or not. The spirit of Fenris was in all of its people, elder and child, man and woman. He had seen first-hand that Roboute Guilliman had brought back miracle warriors from the time of the Allfather Abroad. Space Marines moulded from even sharper steel. If that was possible, anything was. He laughed at the thought.

Tyra frowned at him, thinking he mocked her. He calmed his humour and bowed his head in apology, eyes never leaving hers.

‘Perhaps,’ he said." (Just found this amusing that authors addressed what a marine thinks of female space Marine)

 

"‘Legendary! Count me in!’

All eyes turned to the newcomer. He was dressed in the Space Wolves battleplate. Its markings were those of a Blood Claw, though the wearer was clearly of a greater age than would be expected of such a novice position. His hair was a violently auburn mane, with a short, narrow beard and flowing moustache of the same. His nose was pointed, his cheeks and brow craggy. Most prominent was the insincere grin smeared across his features.

‘Allfather help us,’ growled Njal. ‘Lukas""

 

'He (Njal) clambered through the hatch. The interior had been hastily emptied of bracing and other impediments to his bulkier Terminator armour, and the whole divide between the driver’s position and the crew compartment had been cut away."

 

- more to come

[Guest Triszin]

Awesome, my book should be in by mon, I also grabbed the Lukas book

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Thank you for the details.

Even so, I saw a sleeper entombed in rock, and a white storm that rode upon a chariot of lightning.

So the Lion and the Khan are the next Loyalist Primarchs to appear in M42? Or will they remain loyal?

A shadow rises to the call of the Allfather’s messengers, a darkness that strikes from within.

A reference to Corax, or yet another "unseen threat"- possibly Daemonic or xeno (Dark Eldar and the C'tan spring to mind) in nature?

The benighted ones turn their supernal gazes upon our worlds – the Eater of Worlds, the Corpse-King and the Misbegotten Child move once more. The Cyclopean Fiend, we have already seen. Even the Golden One has broken his gaze from the Empyrean again.

Angron, Mortarion, Fulgrim, and Lorgar- in addition to Magnus. Feth, that's bad.

[Guest]

I suspect it's the big 4+the center.

 

So Angron, Fulgrim, Magnus, Mortarion, as the big 4 and Logar (replacing Horus) being central.

 

Loyalists is a bit harder. The big 4 is GK, DA, BA, SW with UM as the center. 2 of those don't have primarchs (maybe). So I suspect Corax counters Angron, Lion counters Fulgrim, Russ(?) counters Magnus, Khan counters Mortarion, while Guilliman and Logar continue their 10k year feud.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

So I suspect Corax counters Angron, Lion counters Fulgrim, Russ(?) counters Magnus, Khan counters Mortarion, while Guilliman and Logar continue their 10k year feud.

Good guesses, but what of Alpharius and Omegon? Are we certain Guilliman and Dorn killed the twins, or just two Alpha Legion members claiming, "I am Alpharius," and- thanks to the Legion's "Mary Sue" status granting Emperor-knows-what skills and sorcery- deceiving whatever allowed Primarchs to conclusively identify their brothers (as occurred when Horus first met Alpharius)?

[Karhedron]

 

So I suspect Corax counters Angron, Lion counters Fulgrim, Russ(?) counters Magnus, Khan counters Mortarion, while Guilliman and Logar continue their 10k year feud.

Good guesses, but what of Alpharius and Omegon? Are we certain Guilliman and Dorn killed the twins, or just two Alpha Legion members claiming, "I am Alpharius," and- thanks to the Legion's "Mary Sue" status granting Emperor-knows-what skills and sorcery- deceiving whatever allowed Primarchs to conclusively identify their brothers (as occurred when Horus first met Alpharius)?

 

We are certain that Dorn killed Alpharius, the book made sure the point was hammered home in no uncertain terms by Omegon's final PoV scene. Whether Omegon is still around is unclear. The story of Gulliman killing Alpharius is allegedly a legend that is not backed up by the UM records and may have been started by the Alpha Legion themselves to cover Omegon's tracks. Suffice it to say that Omegon's current status is unknown until GW clarifies it.

 

The HH books have established a good history of enmity between Khan and Mortarion so that would work well. The sleeper in the Rock really can't be anyone but Johnson. The Darkness that strikes from within could be Corax with his preference for stealth and infiltration.

 

5 Primarchs a side would be cool. It would also leave open the possibility of Vulkan, Dorn, Perturabo and Omegon for a later date. To some extent I would be slightly diappointed to see Lorgar emerge from the Eye and usurp Abaddon's role as a central leader of the forces of Chaos. I feel it would have been cooler to see Abaddon imbued with the full powers of Chaos turning him into a kind of Horus Mk2 (with appropriately sized model).

 

Mind you, I feel that look for hints of future models in a GW novel is about as accurate as trying to read runes anyway. ;)

[Guest]

Mind you this is just Njal seeking for Russ via psyker means. The rest are totally able to hide themselves in some way, or Njal could have missed them due to him only searching for Russ and just so happens to come across others.

[Guest Triszin]

Mind you this is just Njal seeking for Russ via psyker means. The rest are totally able to hide themselves in some way, or Njal could have missed them due to him only searching for Russ and just so happens to come across others.

wonder if its the case of looking for that one lego brick you need for the instructions. Don't look for it and then it shows up

[PeteySödes]

Holy damn, i know its sort of touchy but if anyone were to get female marines I for one would welcome some fenrisian warrior women...

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Caldersson if you're a secret spy for GW it has worked. I went ahead and ordered Ashes last night.... along with Lukas the Trickster hardback and the Eisenhorn model/book package. Xenos is my favorite BL book, and Eisenhorn my favorite non-SW character. And I have to get the book that features both SW and DE. So, I was probably going to order all of them anyway. I didn't impulse purchase the limited edition Eisenhorn book though.

 

Edit: Just read the last part about Arjac. Maybe I am reading into it too much but I would be proud if SW were the first Chapter to initiate females into out ranks. But it was probably more of him thinking about female marines and "why not." Plus if recruitment is low you are probably increasing the pool of recruits by up to 50%.

 

I can't wait to read this book. I am really interested in the reason why the population hasn't rebounded. Ecologically speaking after a few generations even the human population should rebound to some extent. Not the whole way probably. But the predators of the planet going crazy could be the reason why population hasn't recovered a small amount.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Holy damn, i know its sort of touchy but if anyone were to get female marines I for one would welcome some fenrisian warrior women...

Fenrisian Adepta Sororitas whose faith adapted to ("is perverted by," in a Puritan's words) their planet of birth, to name Leman Russ among the Imperial saints they honor... who hunt the death world's beasts as a form of combat training... who wear wolf skins and other trophies on their armor...

 

Yes, I can get behind that.

[Guest Triszin]

I, Legitimately would love it if the space wolves secretly Started to "primaris" the fenrisian people, Men and women.

 

keep it secret and keep it for a big reveal.

 

 

Like, Thats awesome.

 

TYRA !

 

----------

armor would be the exact same no noticeable difference

[Fang_Guard23]

 

"‘Bulveye?’ The name was instantly known to Njal. For the past several years, more and more of the lost 13th Company had reappeared, each warrior and squad bringing with them their own tales of being trapped in the warp and breaking free from the Eye of Terror. In that time, Njal had studied the oldest records, gathering names of those that had been lost. The names of all those still missing were forged hard in his memory. ‘The Old Wolf.’"

This falls into place that the 13th has been fighting in multiple warbands through out the Eye, and that only the force of Bulveye hasn't been fully leading them

[Guest Triszin]

 

 

"‘Bulveye?’ The name was instantly known to Njal. For the past several years, more and more of the lost 13th Company had reappeared, each warrior and squad bringing with them their own tales of being trapped in the warp and breaking free from the Eye of Terror. In that time, Njal had studied the oldest records, gathering names of those that had been lost. The names of all those still missing were forged hard in his memory. ‘The Old Wolf.’"

This falls into place that the 13th has been fighting in multiple warbands through out the Eye, and that only the force of Bulveye hasn't been fully leading them

 

Oh god were going to get Bulveye as a character. PLEASE

 

breathes heavily

[Karack Blackstone]

Female Space Marines?

 

Yes please, GW; just do it right, in the fluff. If the Wolves figured out how to make Female Space Marines, the reaction across the Imperium should, at the very least, be very interesting, as there's no record thus far of FeMarines being a thing, especially in the fluff thus far.

[Guest Triszin]

Female Space Marines?

 

Yes please, GW; just do it right, in the fluff. If the Wolves figured out how to make Female Space Marines, the reaction across the Imperium should, at the very least, be very interesting, as there's no record thus far of FeMarines being a thing, especially in the fluff thus far.

I was thinking about it.

 

 

Have the space wolves and sub chapters do it in secret.

 

Refer to them as Greki (number) and Freki (number) as callsigns instead of names.

 

ASmodai: "what is your name?"

 

Greki 33: "My call sign is Greki 33" the vox caster yelled

 

dont allude to it, treat them exactly like normal marines, never have them remove there helmets, dont hint at it.

 

THen two, or three actual years later ( the next codex release or main update, after showing off these characters)

 

Greki 33: " I am now your wolf lord, Wolf Lord Tyra, The Ice Fang"

 

and bam shake the sexism in the community and show that this was planned and how awesome they are as marines.

[Karack Blackstone]

 

Female Space Marines?

 

Yes please, GW; just do it right, in the fluff. If the Wolves figured out how to make Female Space Marines, the reaction across the Imperium should, at the very least, be very interesting, as there's no record thus far of FeMarines being a thing, especially in the fluff thus far.

I was thinking about it.

 

 

Have the space wolves and sub chapters do it in secret.

 

Refer to them as Greki (number) and Freki (number) as callsigns instead of names.

 

ASmodai: "what is your name?"

 

Greki 33: "My call sign is Greki 33" the vox caster yelled

 

dont allude to it, treat them exactly like normal marines, never have them remove there helmets, dont hint at it.

 

THen two, or three actual years later

 

Greki 33: " I am now your wolf lord, Wolf Lord Tyra, The Ice Fang"

 

and bam shake the sexism in the community and show that this was planned and how awesome they are as marines.

 

 

While I fully appreciate your efforts, the problem is that when a woman speaks, their voice is usually noticeably different from a man's voice.

 

That typed, I say go for it, and don't look back, and show, rather than tell, the fact that women can be just as badass, courageous, cunning, and capable as men, given the training and the inclination to go that extra mile, and then some, whenever the need arises in life.

 

The best phrase for this kind of situation is, "Where there's a will, there's a way," and that is the name of the game for all Astartes.

 

While not planned for, the possibility of children from two Astartes could also have some even more interesting fluff implications than FeMarines alone...

[Guest Triszin]

agreed.

 

Just write that the VOX caster in the space wolves were altered by the iron priests to hide that fact. say tactically it makes the marines sound exactly the same making it difficult to target specific ones.

[Karack Blackstone]

I ordered the book, thanks to this thread.

 

Also, I emailed GW with the thought that FeMarines are a great long term addition to the game, if they are done well; I expect that they can be, and I think it should be both done, and done well.

 

People will really rail against this course, to be sure; I just see a major opportunity here. There are women that play the game, and they too should have the chance to enjoy the poster child army feeling, same as anyone else that chose to play a Space Marine army.

 

No one gets any say as to the first form they are born into in life; by and large, no one gets any say as to any form they are born into, in any life.

 

I see this as being a perfect chance, a golden opportunity, to really get this game so much more modernized, and yet, done well, it will only reward those that are aware that above all, strength of will determines battlefield performance, however, training gets one aware that said will can do just that, in a fight.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Karack, back in the day fluff indicated that marines are essentially eunuchs. Or at least couldn't have children.

 

I am sure there would be some tenor differences between male and female marines. But I don't think it would be that different. Female bodybuilders who use steroids lose a couple decibels in their own voices.

 

It will be interesting to see if GW ever take that on. The 41st millenium isn't as sexist as our own millenium.

 

The downside of female marines would be are you going to reduce the number of child-bearing Fenrisian women to make them marines?

[MaveriK]

LOL less talking and more updates/quotes from the book already!

[clanfield]

SHIELD MAIDENS enough said 

[Karack Blackstone]

Karack, back in the day fluff indicated that marines are essentially eunuchs. Or at least couldn't have children.

 

I am sure there would be some tenor differences between male and female marines. But I don't think it would be that different. Female bodybuilders who use steroids lose a couple decibels in their own voices.

 

It will be interesting to see if GW ever take that on. The 41st millenium isn't as sexist as our own millenium.

 

The downside of female marines would be are you going to reduce the number of child-bearing Fenrisian women to make them marines?

 

The downside is a catch 22, proverbially speaking, well, typing in this case.

 

Yes, women are needed to have children; the problem is, when the population can have enough men and women to recover eventually, if there is a dire enough need, there is benefit to consider if any women can and indeed should be directed into the Space Wolves Chapter to address combat losses.

 

Women are able to be capable warfighters; the issue is that when women must bear and help raise the children, if there is an inventive way to deal with the population dichotomy that needs to be addressed, I'm all ears. There's the very real issue that, Fenris is a death world; there's consequences when the predators are not hunted enough, especially when the vast majority are a threat to the very population that is the Chapter's sole source of aspirants.

 

Increasing the population of aspirants at the expense of the rate of population growth can be addressed, albeit not easily, short term. If, instead, medium and long term, the Chapter uses its ample knowledge and archives of los-tech, there are ways in which to address this conundrum.

 

The problem, as always, is doing so wisely.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Thing is though. There wouldn't be an issue if GW had any sense of the scope of their own setting. I've commented before that, even with the whole 'deathworld' thing, the stated population of Fenris is laughably small. Even with the losses from Warzone Fenris, it's been a century, the Wolves should have no shortage of aspirants and be up to strength by now. Hell, it only took the Crimson Fists a decade to get back to something like half strength (assuming that's still canon, either way, they'd recovered enough that they needed their   wrecked again on Rynn's World so Gulliman and Co could do their cavalry thing). A hundred years shoud've been more than enough for the Wolves to fully recover.

 

This whole 'the predators aren't being hunted' thing reeks of bad retcon to further justify why the Wolves are still up the proverbial creek despite the 100 year time jump. Trolls, bears etc never used to be a serious threat to the tribes. Because the beasties, being terrestrial were stuck on Asaheim, the only permanent landmass. At no point have we seen 'thin out their numbers' being an important part of Fenrisian tribe life. And if it's such an issue, why can't the Wolves do it, with a couple of gunships? After all Fenris and the Aett must be garrisoned, and I don't care how gribbly the native fauna is, if feral tribemen can take it with spears and axes, a Thunderhawk or two should be able to do a Passenger Pigeon level cull with relative ease. If the Wolves care as much as they're supposed to, then this shouldn't be an issue.

 

Afraid I've got to be the dissenting voice here. The concept of female Marines is an abomination imo. It just doesn't make any sense from an in universe perspective (both theoretically, from what we've been told, and practically), and has been one of the very few immutable rules in the studio's 'loose canon' approach. Breaking that would be terrible for the setting, and probably kill all my interest. Whatever they did with the concept, it wouldn't be 40k any more. You want power armoured women? That's what the Sororitas are for. Depending on how they deal with the disconnect between the Ecclesiarchy and returning Primarchs, I could certainly see the potential to spin into new Orders founded with closer ties to the returned sons of the Emperor, so you could well have Sisters with a more Fenrsian/Norse/DerpWolf aesthetic (probably as part of a move towards greater integration of the Marines with other arms of the Imperial military). But by all that's sacred, don't go sticking gene-seed in them and calling them Marines.

[Karack Blackstone]

Okay, Leif; why?

 

I'm being fully serious here, I am curious as to your line of thinking on this one, same as ever.

 

Yes, Sisters are a great concept. On that note, please read Faith and Fire; I will not spoil the story, but, if you pay close attention, there is a certain, "P," word, in there somewhere, at least according to what I have been told by those that have read the story for themselves.

 

I think, what with the Primaris being new, there is a chance, albeit, with the very delicate nature of the FeMarine discussion, how, and how this new fluff is going to be presented, will be the make or break for those where FeMarines are likely, on their own, to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

On the population issues, actually, fair thought, and that's a much better way to look at it long term. Fluff being written is not fluff being written well.