Passages from Ashes of Prospero (spoilers)

[Splog]

Laurie Goulding is the gate-keeper of the HH series whose job it is to keep the fluff consistent.

Was.

[TheWolfLord]

I'm not the type of person who makes rash judgements, jumps on band wagons or feels it appropriate to slate a GW writer or employee just because it's the current trend by many.

 

Unfortunately I thought the book was the worst written BL novel I've read for several years and by far the worst Space Wolves novel.

 

Gav really doesn't seem to have done his research at all and on top of that his portrayal of Njal was very jarring at times. I struggled to get through it and although the end was worth it I was left shaking my head.

 

The Ironwolves mistake.

The Bulveye retcon or error.

Thinking the Wolves wouldn't recognise a Heresy era vehicle when the Fang was known to house ancient Relic vehicles and the Wolves have had in game rules to field these vehicles since they were introduced into 40k.

Spartans having Triple Las Cannons sponsons rather than Quads.

 

Then the whole reaction to Horus and the orders to attack Prospero. We've known about this for a while and Inferno even paints the picture that the attack on Prospero was sanctioned by the Emperor in his original orders anyway. The only influence Horus had was to incite Russ's anger to launch the attack sooner than he would have otherwise.

To suggest the Wolves don't know the history or that the T'sons were blameless is very poor knowledge of the source material.

 

Njal is one of the most powerful psykers in the Imperium and the most powerful Rune Priest in the history of the Chapter that we are aware of. He's made to look weak, inexperienced and far less capable than we know him to be. The T'sons sorcerer has abilities far in excess of Njal which for a fairly average T'son character seems unrealistic in the first place but are we to believe Njal wouldn't recognise dangerous sorcery? That alone would prove that the Wolves were justified in attacking the T'sons and given the Wolves hatred of malificarum would put Njal and Isakaar at loggerheads even after sharing their experiences.

 

The fact Isakaar represents an anti Magnus faction within the T'sons won't automatically qualify them as loyalists. How can they be accepted by the Imperium when they know and carry out sorcery far in excess of what the Imperium tolerates?

 

I like the premise of the book and the return of the 13th proper is huge for the Wolves but I wish more care had been taken with researching the lore and in the portrayal of the characters.

[Jarl Caldersson]

I will agree with you, with many things. I don't know if it was the worst as it is up to personal opinion. I thought The Primarchs: Guilliman was worst, but that is just me. It was just okay, if you are along for the theme and not the details.

 

Gav really didn't do any research. I had to keep going to websites and books to see check on things. The whole Njal and Ulrik scene threw me off. These are supposed to be of equivalent but different ranks within the SW, yet Njal acts like a child being scolded by his father when he talks to Ulrik. Ulrik acts like a common chaplain than a Wolf Priest. The fang seemed to be a fortress of many towers than a single mountain that it is. Many 30k vehicles seemed to be off that I had to check to see if it was right and what the :cuss Gav was talking about.

 

I can see the 40k wolves thinking the orders came from Emperors and not Horus. Yet Bjorn was there and knew so...? It would have made more sense if the 1kson also got his humbling moment if he got told the reason why the SW were called was because Magnus destroyed the webway project.

 

I think the TSons now knowing what the dangers of the warp we're from their past and seeing what happened to Magnus would be more cautious about peering into the warp. I do think they were loyal but misguided in their thinking.

 

I can believe a 1kson being much better than Njal, but I never got the feeling SW were strong psykers. Njal also says he used the warp as a elemental factor, while the 1ksons used it as a pure force. So Njal seeing a new way of using the warp is believable, however Njal did seem weak.

[Triszin]

@ thewolf lord, this is by no means the worst written BL novel, I say, Never, EVER, venture into Phil kellys writings of the Tau. *shudders*

[TheWolfLord]

@ thewolf lord, this is by no means the worst written BL novel, I say, Never, EVER, venture into Phil kellys writings of the Tau. *shudders*

I didn't say it was the worst ever BL novel, I said it was the worst I'd read in several years. It's surprising bad for a recent BL novel though and I don't recall any Space Wolves novel being as poor as Ashes.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Sigh, guessing by the last 3 pages of discussion or so, looks like Gav goofed a lot. So I won't be picking up this novel.

[LukeTheButcher]

It really does grind my gears that so many SW fans are willing (nay, eager) to beleive that Russ was manipulated into the destruction of Prospero. That Horus was sooooo much a master Manipulator that he could (twirling his villian moustach) set two Legions to war with .... a note. The fact that this has been leapt upon by poor writers since is just plain infuriating.

 

 

The Emperor sent Russ. The Emperor knew Russ, knew his attitude to Magnus/Sorcerers, knew his means and methods. And still decided to send him. "I know... I'll send my self-styled executioner. Naaah! No one will think that I want Magnus dead if he doesn't play ball. I've only charged him with High Treason for breaking my Law!!"

 - I mean, come on. It was a possible outcome the minute the Emperor called for Russ. I refuse to beleive that this would have not even had a two minute conversation between the Master of Mankind and one of his trusted Primarchs, not on something this big. And Valdor is right ther, sat at Russ's shoulder the whole time. You don't think he has a speed-dial to the Emperor - "Crud... I think he's gonig kill Magnus and raise the planet.. what do I do??"

 

 

Magnus was either going to give himself up, run or fight. I would agrue that Magnus's actions had 1000x more impact on Russ's course of action than bloody Horus. Magnus boke a cardinal rule, graphically in the Emperor's face, eeffing up Big E's work in a big firework of oops. And.... Then in the face of the Emperor's justice, he flouts the Emperors Will again.

 

Manipulation? More like only possible outcome at that stage, regardless of Horus's missive.

 

 

Tragic? Yes, thanks to Magnus ego. Manipulation? That suggests Russ can't make up his own mind, or that he was the beserker he pretended to be..... Shheess.  I have a higher opinion of the Wolf King apparently...

[PeteySödes]

 

Tragic? Yes, thanks to Magnus ego. Manipulation? That suggests Russ can't make up his own mind, or that he was the beserker he pretended to be..... Shheess.  I have a higher opinion of the Wolf King apparently...

 

This totally, I like the tragic aspect of it but to make SW/Russ look stupid is a foul IMO.

 

To super nerd it up here, as a sometimes tabletop GM one of my favorite rules for myself is to not make the player look incompetent or stupid but to have outside forces affect the outcome in some way.

 

It seems like we could have gotten some interesting or thought provoking revelations without potentially changing the essential nature of the legion and characters.

 

*caveat i have not read the book and judging purely on this discussion

[TheRealMcCagh]

At least in Vengeful Spirit there is a scene between Malcador and the Emperor where Malcador talks about how rash Russ had acted and the Emperor just kind of shrugs and says Magnus kind of had it coming. Pretty much every other depiction is Russ getting tooled by Horus or just being an idiot.

[TiguriusX]

Much of the fluff is stupid but they wrote it long ago to set the stage for their game.

 

They weren't thinking it had to be fully fleshed out and make sense.

 

Seriously...the emperor leaves all the gladiator brother in arms to die and doesn't think it might lead to a problem with angron?

 

What person with any military experience would have done that.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Much of the fluff is stupid but they wrote it long ago to set the stage for their game.

 

They weren't thinking it had to be fully fleshed out and make sense.

 

Seriously...the emperor leaves all the gladiator brother in arms to die and doesn't think it might lead to a problem with angron?

 

What person with any military experience would have done that.

 

Sigh, sometimes I can't make up my mind who is best at mucking their own fluff: Games Workshop or Blizzard Entertainment. 

 

Anyway guys, long story cut short it looks like Ashes of Prospero is best not picked up by any Rout player who has a decent understanding of prior fluff, even if we all derive different conclusions from it, like how much of the attack on Prospero was Russ being manipulated as opposed to, as mentioned by Lukethebutcher, an almost forgone conclusion the moment Magnus effed up.

 

Because it looks like Gav doesn't even know the general idea of what happened. Even if we all continually debate the events leading up to Prospero and AFTER, the fact that we all can agree the Space Wolves were in the wrong fight, and Russ KNEW IT! BJORN KNEW IT! ALL THE JARLS KNEW IT, even if they didn't agree with it. Read Scars and Wolf King.

 

And yet I'm told that Njal's heart was broken by the revelation of manipulation? As though he didn't know the Space Wolves were fighting the wrong war?

 

Preposterous to say the least. I mean, it doesn't change the enimity with the Thousand Sons, as mentioned by Luke, the TS had it coming unless that idiot Cyclops personally made EVERYONE stand down and submit to Russ, like Russ tried to do but with the wrong conduit (Kasper). 

 

Ahhh this discussion, like anything Gav Thorpe related, has given me a massive headache. I wonder why I don't get this level of headache when discussing works of others like ADB, Chris Wrighs, Dan Abnett and even Graham Mcneil whenever they touch on the Space Wolves. I guess while they create their own storyline or side stories, they either avoided inconsistencies with existing fluff or downright create entirely new storylines which has nothing to do with the existing fluff.

[Fang_Guard23]

 

Much of the fluff is stupid but they wrote it long ago to set the stage for their game.

 

They weren't thinking it had to be fully fleshed out and make sense.

 

Seriously...the emperor leaves all the gladiator brother in arms to die and doesn't think it might lead to a problem with angron?

 

What person with any military experience would have done that.

 

Sigh, sometimes I can't make up my mind who is best at mucking their own fluff: Games Workshop or Blizzard Entertainment. 

 

Anyway guys, long story cut short it looks like Ashes of Prospero is best not picked up by any Rout player who has a decent understanding of prior fluff, even if we all derive different conclusions from it, like how much of the attack on Prospero was Russ being manipulated as opposed to, as mentioned by Lukethebutcher, an almost forgone conclusion the moment Magnus effed up.

 

Because it looks like Gav doesn't even know the general idea of what happened. Even if we all continually debate the events leading up to Prospero and AFTER, the fact that we all can agree the Space Wolves were in the wrong fight, and Russ KNEW IT! BJORN KNEW IT! ALL THE JARLS KNEW IT, even if they didn't agree with it. Read Scars and Wolf King.

 

And yet I'm told that Njal's heart was broken by the revelation of manipulation? As though he didn't know the Space Wolves were fighting the wrong war?

 

Preposterous to say the least. I mean, it doesn't change the enimity with the Thousand Sons, as mentioned by Luke, the TS had it coming unless that idiot Cyclops personally made EVERYONE stand down and submit to Russ, like Russ tried to do but with the wrong conduit (Kasper). 

 

Ahhh this discussion, like anything Gav Thorpe related, has given me a massive headache. I wonder why I don't get this level of headache when discussing works of others like ADB, Chris Wrighs, Dan Abnett and even Graham Mcneil whenever they touch on the Space Wolves. I guess while they create their own storyline or side stories, they either avoided inconsistencies with existing fluff or downright create entirely new storylines which has nothing to do with the existing fluff.

 

well the Lee Lightner duo haven't made anything for BL since Engage the Enemy in 2013, if GW was able to get them into the 8th edition story lineup then we might not have such a major disconnect in the story of the space wolves

[TheWolfLord]

While the book is undoubtably poorly written and full of inconsistencies I would still recommend it for 2 reasons.

 

Firstly, the return of a decent sized force of the 13th Company which we've been wanting since 4th.

 

Secondly, Lukas!

[Kasper_Hawser]

While the book is undoubtably poorly written and full of inconsistencies I would still recommend it for 2 reasons.

 

Firstly, the return of a decent sized force of the 13th Company which we've been wanting since 4th.

 

Secondly, Lukas!

 

On a somewhat off tangent query, is the other book Lukas by Josh Reynolds worth picking up? I've only listened to the audio book where Lukas trolls an Ork Waaagh with fake transmissions and thought it was pretty OK, my only complaint was the Reynolds still used the old codex terms like Wolf Lord instead of Jarl, and of course using the term "Space Wolves" to refer to himself and the chapter, as opposed to "The Rout". That book costs a lot for a hardcover, so I really would like an opinion before buying it.

 

In the end though, those "inconsistencies" are not very relevant and therefore be forgiven.

 

One thing I'm interested though, is whether the 12 women in one night incident happened BEFORE or AFTER his transformation. Somehow, I still think of it as AFTER, which will prove that space marines CAN have a sex drive.

[Jarl Caldersson]

If it is in the time or Lukas then they would be using terms like wolf Lord's and space wolf. Jl

[Kasper_Hawser]

If it is in the time or Lukas then they would be using terms like wolf Lord's and space wolf. Jl

 

Actually even in Ragnar's time, Chris Wright and ADB have the Space Wolves refer to themselves as the Rout or Vlka Fenryka (source: Ragnar Blackmane by ADB and Blood of Asaheim by Chris Wright).

 

But like i said, this type of thing is small matter, what matters more if I'll laugh at the end of the Lukas novel.

[Triszin]

I grabbed the Lukas book, ill start it this week and let yall know

[Dantay VI]

Do bear in mind that there was an advent short story maybe 2 years ago about Bjorn.

 

It is told from a skjalds pov after witnessing Bjorn slaughter a daemon.

 

The daemon laughed as Bjorn ripped it apart. As Bjorn was repeating the names of the pack members he had lost 10,000 years ago to the same daemon he forgets one of his packs names.

 

This leaves Bjorn in a state of confusion as he is led away by the Iron Priests.

 

This deeply troubles the pack listening to the story because if Bjorn is losing his memories what else could he be losing? Or already lost?

 

Also in the past Bjorn would only be awoken once per millenia or century for the retelling of sagas by the Rune Priests. Who could say how through spoken word some parts of a saga could change or be omitted?

 

It is not infeasible that some info would be lost over such a period of time.

 

Besides the inconsistencies are not entirely Thorpes fault. Surely the editor should have kept him on point?

[Leif Bearclaw]

See, that's exactly the kind of story I'm glad I haven't read, and imo should never be written. If they reduce Bjorn to a senile/demented beatstick, what's the point? There's grimdark, then there's just irredeemably mean spirited and depressing, and I'd say that's the latter. But then I've already had my fill of dementia and the like irl, so I don't really want it in my escapist fiction.

 

Some info lost? Yeah, sure, that's how memory works, but losing something as personal as the names of fallen brothers is just, poor, let alone something as pivotal to the Chapter's evolution and identity as the truth of Prospero? No thanks, that's just .

[Kasper_Hawser]

Do bear in mind that there was an advent short story maybe 2 years ago about Bjorn.

 

It is told from a skjalds pov after witnessing Bjorn slaughter a daemon.

 

The daemon laughed as Bjorn ripped it apart. As Bjorn was repeating the names of the pack members he had lost 10,000 years ago to the same daemon he forgets one of his packs names.

 

This leaves Bjorn in a state of confusion as he is led away by the Iron Priests.

 

This deeply troubles the pack listening to the story because if Bjorn is losing his memories what else could he be losing? Or already lost?

 

Also in the past Bjorn would only be awoken once per millenia or century for the retelling of sagas by the Rune Priests. Who could say how through spoken word some parts of a saga could change or be omitted?

 

It is not infeasible that some info would be lost over such a period of time.

 

Besides the inconsistencies are not entirely Thorpes fault. Surely the editor should have kept him on point?

 

See, that's exactly the kind of story I'm glad I haven't read, and imo should never be written. If they reduce Bjorn to a senile/demented beatstick, what's the point? There's grimdark, then there's just irredeemably mean spirited and depressing, and I'd say that's the latter. But then I've already had my fill of dementia and the like irl, so I don't really want it in my escapist fiction.

 

Some info lost? Yeah, sure, that's how memory works, but losing something as personal as the names of fallen brothers is just, poor, let alone something as pivotal to the Chapter's evolution and identity as the truth of Prospero? No thanks, that's just .

 

Guys, to be really fair, Bjorn was NOT depicted as senile. Yes he was being trolled by the Bloodthirster because he couldn't remember the name of his last pack mate that was slain by it. That doesn't mean the REST of what he remembers is wrong. Yes, he may have forgotten some details. But nowhere is it implied he MISREMEMBERED all the stuff he already said. So far what he mentions of the heresy is pretty spot on despite not witnessing most of it beyond the Wolves portion.

 

And even though he wasn't even a Wolf Guard, he was one of the first who actually admitted that they were all CONNED into razing Prospero. (refer Wolf King)

 

10 thousand years later, despite not exactly being in the forefront of the heresy, he still managed to sum up the whole mess adequately in "The Emperor's Gift":

 

 

"A god? Calling him (the emperor) a god is what started this whole mess in the first place."

 

Bjorn said this to visiting inquisitor. This is some pretty deep analysis since it requires someone to eventually figure out that it was Lorgar and his search for gods to worship that arguably got the ball rolling for the heresy. And for Bjorn to actually remember this.

 

He is also lucid enough to remember what a hot babe looks like when he basically oggled the female fenrisian inquisitor.

 

 

So give the old man a break. Maybe he isn't as smart as Stephen Hawking, (God bless his soul, RIP) but I've yet to see his depiction as actually senile. Luckily Gav didn't seem to touch him.

[Karack Blackstone]

Do bear in mind that there was an advent short story maybe 2 years ago about Bjorn.

 

It is told from a skjalds pov after witnessing Bjorn slaughter a daemon.

 

The daemon laughed as Bjorn ripped it apart. As Bjorn was repeating the names of the pack members he had lost 10,000 years ago to the same daemon he forgets one of his packs names.

 

This leaves Bjorn in a state of confusion as he is led away by the Iron Priests.

 

This deeply troubles the pack listening to the story because if Bjorn is losing his memories what else could he be losing? Or already lost?

 

Also in the past Bjorn would only be awoken once per millenia or century for the retelling of sagas by the Rune Priests. Who could say how through spoken word some parts of a saga could change or be omitted?

 

It is not infeasible that some info would be lost over such a period of time.

 

Besides the inconsistencies are not entirely Thorpes fault. Surely the editor should have kept him on point?

 

See, that's exactly the kind of story I'm glad I haven't read, and imo should never be written. If they reduce Bjorn to a senile/demented beatstick, what's the point? There's grimdark, then there's just irredeemably mean spirited and depressing, and I'd say that's the latter. But then I've already had my fill of dementia and the like irl, so I don't really want it in my escapist fiction.

 

Some info lost? Yeah, sure, that's how memory works, but losing something as personal as the names of fallen brothers is just, poor, let alone something as pivotal to the Chapter's evolution and identity as the truth of Prospero? No thanks, that's just .

 

 

Do bear in mind that there was an advent short story maybe 2 years ago about Bjorn.

 

It is told from a skjalds pov after witnessing Bjorn slaughter a daemon.

 

The daemon laughed as Bjorn ripped it apart. As Bjorn was repeating the names of the pack members he had lost 10,000 years ago to the same daemon he forgets one of his packs names.

 

This leaves Bjorn in a state of confusion as he is led away by the Iron Priests.

 

This deeply troubles the pack listening to the story because if Bjorn is losing his memories what else could he be losing? Or already lost?

 

Also in the past Bjorn would only be awoken once per millenia or century for the retelling of sagas by the Rune Priests. Who could say how through spoken word some parts of a saga could change or be omitted?

 

It is not infeasible that some info would be lost over such a period of time.

 

Besides the inconsistencies are not entirely Thorpes fault. Surely the editor should have kept him on point?

 

See, that's exactly the kind of story I'm glad I haven't read, and imo should never be written. If they reduce Bjorn to a senile/demented beatstick, what's the point? There's grimdark, then there's just irredeemably mean spirited and depressing, and I'd say that's the latter. But then I've already had my fill of dementia and the like irl, so I don't really want it in my escapist fiction.

 

Some info lost? Yeah, sure, that's how memory works, but losing something as personal as the names of fallen brothers is just, poor, let alone something as pivotal to the Chapter's evolution and identity as the truth of Prospero? No thanks, that's just .

 

Guys, to be really fair, Bjorn was NOT depicted as senile. Yes he was being trolled by the Bloodthirster because he couldn't remember the name of his last pack mate that was slain by it. That doesn't mean the REST of what he remembers is wrong. Yes, he may have forgotten some details. But nowhere is it implied he MISREMEMBERED all the stuff he already said. So far what he mentions of the heresy is pretty spot on despite not witnessing most of it beyond the Wolves portion.

 

And even though he wasn't even a Wolf Guard, he was one of the first who actually admitted that they were all CONNED into razing Prospero. (refer Wolf King)

 

10 thousand years later, despite not exactly being in the forefront of the heresy, he still managed to sum up the whole mess adequately in "The Emperor's Gift":

 

 

"A god? Calling him (the emperor) a god is what started this whole mess in the first place."

 

Bjorn said this to visiting inquisitor. This is some pretty deep analysis since it requires someone to eventually figure out that it was Lorgar and his search for gods to worship that arguably got the ball rolling for the heresy. And for Bjorn to actually remember this.

 

He is also lucid enough to remember what a hot babe looks like when he basically oggled the female fenrisian inquisitor.

 

 

So give the old man a break. Maybe he isn't as smart as Stephen Hawking, (God bless his soul, RIP) but I've yet to see his depiction as actually senile. Luckily Gav didn't seem to touch him.

 

 

So, on this current discussion, I have a thought, and it has to do with this entry from the Bjorn short.

 

I think the packmate that Bjorn forgot the name of was not one that was slain, as, in the story, if I recall correctly, Bjorn forgot the single most important name in the list, the one not slain, and that is the most concerning part here, from the story. He forgot he was once a part of the pack; Bjorn forgot he was the only one that lived, and, was, before the daemon slew the rest of his pack, one of said pack.

 

I do realize this is a great deal of a story conundrum; the problem is the precedent to me of perspective here. Can Bjorn be losing not his memories, but, no offense, being stuck in a living coffin as a near-corpse does likely have long term effects that play with the mind?

 

Food for thought, and, I am curious as to the perspective, if I am right in my line of thinking, that the above spoiler logic points are accurate observations...

[Dantay VI]

I was never implying that Bjorn was a senile beat-stick, but things can change or be lost over time.

 

Maybe after Magnus' assault on the Fang in M.32 the duping of uss became irrelevant, or maybe they came to that conclusion during or just after the Heresy.

 

Yes they were duped but the T-sons were too far gone, so the deceit was not relevant to the ultimate outcome? 

[Kasper_Hawser]

I was never implying that Bjorn was a senile beat-stick, but things can change or be lost over time.

 

Maybe after Magnus' assault on the Fang in M.32 the duping of uss became irrelevant, or maybe they came to that conclusion during or just after the Heresy.

 

Yes they were duped but the T-sons were too far gone, so the deceit was not relevant to the ultimate outcome? 

 

Actually I was addressing Leif Bearclaw that was implying senility of Bjorn, not you. I was replying to your post in regards to the Advent story, as I did buy the Space Wolves collection e-book and that particular story was in it. I thought it was nice, slightly grimdark for poor Bjorn.

 

@ Karrack - I think I'll need to reread the story again, as I was the impression that Bjorn was reciting the names of those of his packmates who ALL died under the bloodthirster, resulting in him being a lone wolf for a time.

 

And yes, I freely admit that a Space Marine's mind can possibly deteriorate over time, even in or especially in a Dreadnought. I just don't see it happening to Bjorn yet. He may be grumpier, sleepier, but not more senile. To be senile, you either have to get the details blatantly wrong, or be unable to engage in a lucid discussions. As of Curse of the Wulfen, apart from the ridiculous notion that he is capable of psychic defence, he is still capable of fighting and organizing when the Fang was attacked from below.

 

Just remembered, there was an Soul Drinker dreadnought since the Heresy era which did eventually go bonkers and tried to drag the Imperial Fists into damnation. So yeah, it can happen.

[LukeTheButcher]

Dantay IV,

 

Please can we quit with the terminology that Russ was tricked/duped and manipulated.

 

Look at the logic: The Emperor sent a Warhost with the Silent Sisters to deal with someone who had flouted Imperial Law and the Emperors Will. You don't send that if you expect Magnus is going to surrender or flee. You send it so that if he resists, you have the force to deal with it. Conflict was always a potential outcome and by not bowing to Imperial Justice, Magnus forced Russ' hand. I can't see how Horus is meant to have influenced that, as there were only ever three outcomes.

 

 

This was not a policeman arresting a criminal and shooting them by accident.

This was a Warlord, with his army, giving an ultimatum to another Warlord with an army. By ignoring the ultimatum (surrend yourself to justice) Magnus became a rebel Warlord (with an army capable of subduing starsystems) and so at that point, absolute destruction of the Thousand Sons was the only outcome left to Russ. Just as the Crusade had dealt with everyone else who refused Imperial rule.

 

Let me ask you this.... If Horus had never contacted Russ, how would you have expected the scenario to play out any differently?

 

 

The sooner the SW community stop perpetuating this myth that Horus (moustache twirling) tricked Russ into doing something he never intended, the better. Russ acted within his role and remit and there has never been a hint to the contrary.

 

Luke

[PeteySödes]

This is what I find interesting though LukeTheButcher, and what i believe is the downside of codifying the lore so absolutely. Are we to now pick and choose the truth of what happened based on the books we like? How much leeway do we give when there are actual factual errors in the account by the author?

 

I love reading the books but I guess I still try and treat them in an almost mythological sense.

 

As the Black Library expands the Universe gets smaller...