Jolemai Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Welcome to the Blood Angels Unit of the Week Series! Following the release of the 8th edition Codex, there is no better time to discuss all the unique units we have access to. Each week a different unit will appear, with the idea being that we discuss how best to use that model on the battlefield. Note, this isn't to lament any nerfs, etc, from previous editions; the rules are as they are so try to unlock its potential for those who wish to use them all the same. Without further ado, here's this week's entry: Librarian Dreadnought What are you thoughts here folks? How best would you play a Furioso Dreadnought? Stormraven or Lucius Pod? Any merit to footslogging in this edition?What weapon options are you choosing? Spells?Do you make him the Warlord and take Artisan of War on one of the weapons? Or is there a different choice?How would you consider buffing this chap on a regular basis?Stratagems? What about the Wisdom of the Ancients? Over to you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 Should you want your model on display here (or on another thread), then submit a photo here please. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaae Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 In my most humble of opinions (I'll fight you), I think the Librarian Dread can be used much like Mephiston: Use Wings and Quickening to move up the board, protected by character status, and find something big to punch. His transport options are more limited, but I do think he can take on bigger things better, owing to the fact that he is straight 3 damage, instead of the Chief Librarian's D3 damage. Also, you can make the Librarian Dread your Warlord and take Artisan of War, bumping him up to 4 damage, making him the psyker equivalent of Captain Slamguinius.The real downside to him is his cost and his reliance on psychic powers. He is slow if you don't get Wings off, and his base 3 attacks really needs Quickening to bump him up, or I suppose you can use Red Rampage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calistarius Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 To your point toaae, he's still faster than Mephiston without Wings factored for either. I like that his damage is 3 without buffs, as well. I feel like I tend to be a little over confident in my Libby Dread's capabilities when I field him. I usually take Shield and Wings, and send him at my opponents heavy hitters. However, I made the mistake of launching into melee with my buddies SW Venerable dread with the shield. That 3++ on those things is gnarly. He survived my charge and promptly whipped my Libby the same phase. I also failed my roll for Shield, but I felt I could take him down regardless. I was wrong. All of that being said, if you're just going to take one of these things as a support/blender I think you're better off just paying less for Mephiston. If you're willing to pay the points, go for the self buffing powers, and maybe exercise a little caution when you choose your targets to throw him at. As for transports, for these dudes I still rock the Stormraven. Always will. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I'd say they can footslog just fine, their character status protects them better than a transport. Wings+Quickening always, if shield was still a 4++, I would say it might be worth it, but not for a 5++ compared to d3 extra attacks and 3" of charge movement, or Wings 12" extra movement. and their great at murdering vehicles and infantry squads that don't hit back with power fists or the like, because their really easy to pop with those. Other dreadnoughts are kinda iffy, if you whiff on the charge, they'll happily punt you into next week, and avoid things with good invulnerable saves like the actual plague, as even with red rampage and quickening, you don't have enough attacks to reliably get through it, and then you get punished. But their very good at squashing Monsters that have a 4++ or worse. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tychobi Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Wish I could get behind the libby dred. Base stats are really poor for the points. I feel like we pay a premium for our chapter tactic or something with our special dreads. Sad but he is not in a good place for competative play. Also I really feel there is a design issue of something as cool as a lib dread has exactly 1 tactic. Arbitrary weapon load out restrictions make me sad I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calistarius Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Wish I could get behind the libby dred. Base stats are really poor for the points. I feel like we pay a premium for our chapter tactic or something with our special dreads. Sad but he is not in a good place for competative play. Also I really feel there is a design issue of something as cool as a lib dread has exactly 1 tactic. Arbitrary weapon load out restrictions make me sad I guess. Exactly. When our codex first dropped I was so stoked about dreadnoughts again. Mostly the libby. I've stopped using dreadnoughts all together now, and am doing much better. I'll bring a few of them in the next Apoc. game I play. For now, I think the price is too high for what we get. I'd rather take Mephiston. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Crimson Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 The librarian dreadnought is much better than other dreadnoughts. WS 2+, S10, flat 3 damage halberd with AP-4 is nasty. He can be a pretty decent backup (or side buddy) to captain smash. With quickening and red rampage that’s 5-9 attacks. In my games I had much success to use him with patience, don’t be afraid to walk him 1-2 turns and be sure you can hop any screens (if any are left) and strike to the core or go to clear an objective. I also found that eliminating opponent psychers can become a priority, getting to cast quickening and wings without fear of deny is big. Mephiston is a great character and very hard to beat. He is the gold standard character of our codex IMO. If you have to run just one psychic he probably is a better choice because he knows 3 powers. If you run two librarian, one JP that deep strike turn 1 to buff DC and one that is there as monster hunter the librarian dread fits in very nicely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I personally have had success with a normal librarian with just a jump pack, your choice of either axe or sword, and an inferno pistol, knowing wings and quickening. He drops in with the DC, as he can very reliably get a charge off along with the DOA DC unit. He can jump past screens if they left any gaps at all with wings, put a melta shot into something, and then blend with the +2d3 attacks from quickening+RR. I usually pull that out when the opponent has his bigger stuff like his tanks bubled to well for smash to make it in, so I send the libby in character/elite unit hunting. I imagine a libby dread could do exactly the same thing, just would require a dreadnought pod. Expensive, but having a dread get a turn 1 charge isn't something most people want to deal with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I've used a Libby Dread in a couple games recently and I can testify that he's a frekkin' hause. Whethe or not he's optimal at 187 or whatever it is, I'm not entirely sure. But he's definitely not a bad choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Which ranged weapon would you all recommend? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I'd go with Stormbolter. I'm really not impressed with flamers at all this edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I’ve had my reservations about them too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I use him in every of my games and he always did great so far. His kill history is among other things a unit of Blightlord Terminators, a Carnifex, a unit of Tyranid Warriors and half of another big Tyranid monster which I forgot the name of ... only half because it has a 4++ and the Warlord trait that reduces damage dealt by 1 for the rest of the game after the turn it lost its first wound. I usually keep him behind my guys and pling away with StormBolter and Smite until a tasty target presents itself. Basically like other Librarians but with a bigger impact when he jumps out to do stuff and not completely lost if left alone due T7 and more wounds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I use him in every of my games and he always did great so far. His kill history is among other things a unit of Blightlord Terminators, a Carnifex, a unit of Tyranid Warriors and half of another big Tyranid monster which I forgot the name of ... only half because it has a 4++ and the Warlord trait that reduces damage dealt by 1 for the rest of the game after the turn it lost its first wound. I usually keep him behind my guys and pling away with StormBolter and Smite until a tasty target presents itself. Basically like other Librarians but with a bigger impact when he jumps out to do stuff and not completely lost if left alone due T7 and more wounds. That's basically my experience as well. He didn't look like he should be worth 187 points...but I found that he is. Mostly because he's character, I think, and thus can be screened. Intuitively, I guess being screened by infantry didn't jive with the idea of "Dreadnought" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Artisan of War obviously makes for an extremely potent melee Librarian Dreadnought, but I've been considering a Librarian Dreadnought with the Selfless Valour Warlord Trait (6" Heroic Intervention), has anyone tried this at all? My thinking is that the 6" HI should allow him to accelerate up the field a little bit (somewhat mitigating his Mv6"), and if he pops Wings he can HI over models from a fair distance which could be surprising to an opponent. Also, fun fact: you can Heroically Intervene even when there's an enemy within 1", you simply have to move closer to the nearest enemy model. Assuming a second unit charges something nearby, the SVLD could potentially jump over the first enemy and get closer to the second - with a little luck in positioning and with a lucky use of Counter Offensive to possibly interrupt before the model(s) that charged him, you could theoretically get him away from what charged him! Would be tricky to pull off, but if you somehow got away from an enemy Captain Smash, that'd be pretty awesome! Alternatively, the Speed of the Primarch Warlord Trait could also be very good, letting him interrupt for 'free', which could seriously hurt considering how hard he can hit. Any thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I never give him Artisan of War. D3 is potent enough since he only has 3 attacks without buff anyway. IF he's my Warlord he usually gets the +1 Attack on charge one or the 6+++ re-rolling 1s one (was never really worth it tho...I suck at rolling on 6s). If I had to face Grey Knights, TSons or Tyranids I sometimes take the one that gives me an additional deny even. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5020937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Crimson Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I am not sure why everyone sees his speed as a problem. Wings gives 12’’ free move +12’’ the next movement phase. That’s enough to be right where you want turn 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5021016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaae Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I am not sure why everyone sees his speed as a problem. Wings gives 12’’ free move +12’’ the next movement phase. That’s enough to be right where you want turn 2. If you get the power off. There's a decent enough chance you won't, and when you don't, he is a slow man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5021077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornithologist Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I use mine almost every game anymore. But his biggest weakness' are low attacks, and no reliable invuln. I find he goes down to Mortal wounds most often. I still use him for both support and important target removal. Wings makes him a frightening distraction Carnifex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5021157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lash144 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 How is the Libby Dread post CA? Especially compared to say Mephiston. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5223882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are Verlo Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 I’d say he is good. The libby dread is good at attacking units of single multi-wound models, but not that good at atracking units of multi-wound models (compared to smash cap and Mephiston) He is a lot less mobile than the cap and a little less mobile than Mephiston. You can either run him on foot along your other advancing units or put him in a pod/raven. And you can go for psychics to increase his mobility, but powers can fail to manifest or be denied. The libby dread also lacks infantry keyword for fighting twice. It is still a character and my use only in dead to take something with it as a casualty. Those are my mad ramblings, but I used him a lot before CA and with a 30 point reduction after CA I’d say he compates well to Mephiston Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5224001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 He was great before and CA18 didn't make it more expensive so he's still great after. The only thing that changed is that he's in a better position compared to Mephiston than before, however this is the wrong thread for that unless we want to talk about how to use him together with Mephiston. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5224008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 The point drop is a big deal but my main issue is he can be a liability unless you pod him (more points) - some armies that have super speedy flyers that can really hurt a lot . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5224043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Not really. He's a character with a slightly bigger base. You can hide him behind your units just fine. So far I never had any of my opponent outrun my whole army to get a shot on my Librarian Dread until I was ready to let him jump out with Wings of Blood and charge him into a unit myself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344802-unit-of-the-week-librarian-dreadnought/#findComment-5224124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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