Death Guard vs the Tournament

[DominikB]

I've decided to forego Typhus all together. I think he would be more of a distraction for my opponents, but me as well. Sure he buffs the Poxwalkers, but the lord allows re-rolls which helps everyone.

 

Now it was suggested that I take Morty and in order to do so I would take out my DP and drones. I do think that is viable option if I compare what he would do vs what they would do (for the points), but...?

To recount my LCO experience, I took morty, typhus, MPC, 3 squads of PB, 3 flamer drones and 2 preds (quad las and one auto canon). I went 3-0-3 but I felt I should’ve won at least 1/2 more games (bad luck or timed out)

 

Morty only made it past T3 in one game as he was a huge fire magnet which did allow the rest of the army to do stuff and remove units. If he did hit the enemy lines there was rarely anything left, but I did feel I spent a lot of time worrying about keeping him safe and not doing so with the rest of the army which I admit is my own play style error but something to keep in mind. The 3 drones were the true MVPs as they took huge amount of fire before dropping and allowed me to disable tanks and the like T2 with some clever charges. Would I take Morty again? Idk,I feel he was a huge investment for a fire magnet and I wonder if 3 drones not far of his price couldn’t have done more for me

[McElMcNinja]

That's kind of what I'm thinking, I can take Morty or DP w/2 drones. Morty is a better psycher than a DP and could "potentially" put out the same damage as all 3. But the 3 are more versatile and less of a target. I can tie up multiple things easier and go different directions if needdd. Then again, Morty is well Morty.

 

I don't want to get rid of anything else for many reasons, but mostly because I simply like all those other units. I also feel like if I dropped certain units for a predator or this or that, then it's no longer my army. It would become the same ol' thing everyone else is running and there is no fun in that for me. Sure I might do better, but I would rather do my thing and just have fun (and hopefully still be competitive).

 

So I have appreciated the help adjusting my army and I think it's already better, just a twink here or there and it's ready to go.

[Prot]

Including Mortarion for purely competitive reasons is a difficult question. I did it for fun in my last Batrep on the forum and I still modified my list a lot. If you are doing this to be competitive I think you have to largely build a list around him.

 

I can’t really answer how solid he is in a hardcore tournament setting but my feel is if you aren’t playing Nurgle Daemons, then no. I think it’s entirely dependent on having luck on your side in an ‘aware’ meta.

 

I keep saying this but Mortarion and really any superheavy in an unaware meta is going to feel op. An aware meta will have the ability to put him down in a turn or two. The rest is luck. If he gets there he’s going to obviously pay off. But right now I don’t like the odds.

[McElMcNinja]

So question, wouldn't what ever could take out Morty also take out the 3 amigos, just easier?

[bozo69pd]

So question, wouldn't what ever could take out Morty also take out the 3 amigos, just easier?

Morty has a degrading stat line, and that is really rough when he gets knocked down to 5 wounds. Let me run a little issue I have noticed from my games.

 

Scenario 1: I have Morty, and got the first turn so I was actually able to psychically buff him up to survive to maybe turn 3! Wooooo!  Unfortunately my opponent is not an idiot, and deployed his helblaster/lascannon/dark reaper forces sparsely spread out so I cannot multi charge or even get to a second important combat right away. Now I am a sitting duck for turn 2.

 

Scenario 2: I bring a combination of 2 DP's and 2 spitterdrones. I can send them all at the individual units of helblasters/lascannon/dark reapers and possibly put a good dent in some of them if not killing them outright. If I can't reach those DPS units I can attempt to just get stuck in on a unit of intercessors or something. Morty will usually kill whatever he charges so its hard to get him stuck in and safe(ish).

 

I have been having best luck with 2-3 DP's and 3 spitterdrones. I have been contemplating 6 spitterdrones lol.

[Prot]

Well in a simple fishbowl scenario, no.

 

For example one guy I play always includes this laser destroyer thing... it always causes 6 damage and it’s -5 ap. This stuff just trains on Mortarion and it can be devastating lasting 460 points in one turn from some concentrated fire.

 

I mean that’s the obvious problem of playing such units, I played Magnus even more and used to include Knights. All of these units suffer the same issue. They are impossible to hide, and take decision making right out of your opponent’s hands... it’s so easy for them.

 

So that’s two unique negatives, but that he third is bigger imho. It’s that your opponent knows that’s your big trick. A unit like this is no ‘distraction carnifex’, it’s your meat and potatoes. The opponent knows this and chaff, heavies, Psykers, etc are all positioned accordingly.

 

This is what I mean by meta awareness. If you play a group or tournament of people used to Primarchs or superheavies, they know what to do and there’s little to surprise them. I actually think it makes their game easier in a way.

 

I always feel in my games using such units that is a strong moral blow when you lose tha big unit. Frankly I think the game has swung towards cheap junk too much. Maybe a new codex like Tau will change that, but for now I feel like the era of death star type lists utilizing 450+ point models is slipping by.

 

I do think it could work if you get the right match ups. It would also be an opportunity to develop a different playstyle amd try some new units. It’s not like Mortarion is a slouch either. I would definitely test it first. I don’t know how many games you have under your belt with Primarchs but it’s a different game. You have to find ways to be cagey.

[McElMcNinja]

I am going to hold off on Morty, for this tournament.

 

So my finalized list is as follows:

 

HQ

DP w/wings, hellforged sword, suppurating plate

Chaos Lord w/ plasma p., balesword

Malignant Plaguecaster

Malignant Plaguecaster

 

Troops

7x Plague Marines w/plasma g., 2x blight launcher

7x Plague Marines w/plasma g., 2x blight launcher

16x Poxwalkers

 

Elites

Foul Blightspawn (warlord)

Tallyman

5x Blightlord Terminators w/2x combo-bolter, 3x bubotic axes, blight launcher, flail of corruption, balesword, combo-melta

 

Fast Attack

Foetid Bloat-drone w/fleshmower

Foetid Bloat-drone w/2x plaguespitter

3x Myphtic Blight-haulers

 

2,000 points, 8 CP

13 units, 46 models

[Charlo]

As a total back seat DG player (I mean, I have three bloat drones on my desk and Mortarion in a box!) I've really enjoyed reading through this thread and it's been cool as heck to see a list grow and evolve!

 

It's looking pretty balanced now in terms of what you have but I can't help but feel Typhus really helps out the Pox a lot? The difference between S/T 3&4 is pretty big IMO, but of course YMMV - maybe you'd need more Pox to justify his inclusion.

[happyslugger]

I love Typhus and his poxwalkers.

 

With psychic support S5 T5 poxwalkers throwing 2 attack's with VOTLW against marines is funny.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I found if taking mortarion for a competitive list, you really want to take magnus with him.

[bozo69pd]

I found if taking mortarion for a competitive list, you really want to take magnus with him.

I think he wants to keep the list DG. Also while sometimes the brothers can smash face an opponent that can delete one brother a turn will guaranteed win against you turn 2 or 3 if they deploy properly. All the eggs in one basket thing.

[BlackTriton]

Im in no way a tournament player (yet).

My understanding on primarch and super heavy in the curent meta is that they are gatekeepers.

In that, to be a top tier, a list need to be able to deal with 1 or 2 primarch. They are common enough that if you cant, you will not reach high table.

Yet those list (primarchs list) do not ranks amongs top table, meaning they are not top tier themselfs.

If that is true, it is best to avoid taking a primarch.

[Prot]

I love Typhus and his poxwalkers.

 

With psychic support S5 T5 poxwalkers throwing 2 attack's with VOTLW against marines is funny.

 

This is also where the Tallyman can be huge. I kid you not, I've taken on 65 Genestealers with my Poxwalker lists. If you know your opponent, and your strategems are well timed these guys are really good... but I confess my Nid opponent would play them very differently now.

 

That said Typhus makes a good unit, very good. But he's just fine on his own. In fact I often feel ripped off by his babysitting duties. Yes, the Poxwalkers are greatly helped not only by his inherent buffs but his psychic phase, then at that point there is no way Typhus can really fight unless things have gone horrible.

 

I'm planning on using Typhus with Deathshroud. I really hate sticking him in babysitting duty.... even if it does work.

 

Poxwalkers are great on their own too... they don't break of course, and that's huge, but it's just nice to have a squad of essentially DR cultists sitting on objectives. 

[McElMcNinja]

The Dead Walk Again... is this something that I should just auto play every turn? When I have played it, it has worked perfectly, but it's always been when I knew I was going to be doing the killing. I have a hard time judging when I'm going to be taking the kills and second guess when I should play it as a defensive stratagem.

 

Snipers? I have only played against the assassin who can snipe characters, but I know Marines and Eldar have them. Who/what all can shoot characters regardless of who's closer.

[bozo69pd]

AM, AM, and Tau also have snipers.

 

I know I get torn on proper dead walk again timing. If you spam battalions to get enough CP's I suppose you could just always have it up every turn though. 1 walker blob, Typhus, and 5 msu units of cultists marching up the field is funny. Fill the other HQ slots with winged flying DP's and malignant plague casters? Then your 3rd battalion is epidemius and 3 nurglings units.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Dead walks again is mainly used for massed deterrence. Used in conjunction with cloud of flies, it basically makes them feed the poxwalker unit with dead cultists or not shoot. Also very good for melees with multiple units of yours or the screening cultists obviously .

[McElMcNinja]

I figure I'm starting with 8cp unless I get another relic, but I have finished games and still have 2-3cp left. I am ok using more earlier if it ups my survivability. And I get the impression most games are going to be won or lost in those first 2 turns.

 

One of the reasons I made the Foulf Blightspawn my warlord is he sits in the center of my formation, so it's unlikely he will charged or smited. He is infantry so I can play cloud of flies on him if they have snipers and he should survive the whole game.

[Prot]

I use walking dead once per game unless Tallyman sends me a sign and refunds the CP!

 

Sometimes you won’t need it in T2. By T3 my opponent’s rarely care about Poxwalkers, but occasionally I will have to ( rarely ) use it.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Prot

[SkimaskMohawk]

Wording on sniper weapons overrides cloud of flies. Cloud of flies says the unit can only be targetted unless they are closest. Sniper rifles (marine version at least) say they can target characters even if they're not the closest. Might not be the intention, but it's very much trumped by sniper.

[McElMcNinja]

Hmmm. See I was taking it that snipers could shoot characters even if they aren't the closest unit, which trumps the rule book. Then cloud of flies says you can only shoot this unit if it is the closest visible target and that would supersede the sniper rule. Edited March 6, 2018 by McElMcNinja

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well they're both non core rulebook rules, so theres no real order of operation in terms of the old advanced>general. That being said, the permission given from the sniper is worded in such a way that it supersedes cloud completely when it comes to characters.

[Prot]

So how attached are you to the Fleshmower? I've never used it, but I get the feeling you really like it?

[McElMcNinja]

Ah the fleshmower, I like him a lot. My opponents have learned to fear him and I had to add the second drone as a diversion. The only down side is his WS of 4+, I compensate for that with the DP. I like that I can cast Blades on him, wounding almost everything on a 2+. I like the fact that it's 2W, I'm not a fan of random damage rolling. I would rather have 2W every time vs d3W like his probe. I'd say on average I hit with 75% of his attacks and wound 95% of the time.

Also I don't have to think to hard about what I'm going to do with him, he needs to be in CC and so that's where he goes. More times then not, he has earned his points back with what he takes out.

If it weren't for the other drone and DP, I don't think he would be as effective. But again that idea came to me after he kept getting destroyed so early from opponents I had previously educated on his damage potential.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Seems like some very good rolling to hit lol. Actual average with 4s rerolling 1s is 58%; 75% is the average of full rerolls

[DominikB]

Seems like some very good rolling to hit lol. Actual average with 4s rerolling 1s is 58%; 75% is the average of full rerolls

This is why I’d only run the flamers, to me the combat attack is more a token gesture than anything else