Death Guard vs the Tournament

[Prot]

Well I don’t think it’s a simple answer... I think I blame myself for the timing of it.

 

The opponent having to deal with my Blightlords certainly can be an asset. But in my case, to be blunt, I was stupidly overconfident.

 

My unit came in, and threw some Combi melta at an Exocrine, which is great. But I was too anxious to take down the destructive bug, and should have waited for another turn because the Broodlord and his 30 Genestealer buddies got into the squad and my Termie kord in the next turn.

 

I either should have left a smaller gap between the Blightlords and my main force, or waited for the Genestealer squads to be further away from his back lines. Either way... I was impatient.

[DominikB]

Well I don’t think it’s a simple answer... I think I blame myself for the timing of it.

 

The opponent having to deal with my Blightlords certainly can be an asset. But in my case, to be blunt, I was stupidly overconfident.

 

My unit came in, and threw some Combi melta at an Exocrine, which is great. But I was too anxious to take down the destructive bug, and should have waited for another turn because the Broodlord and his 30 Genestealer buddies got into the squad and my Termie kord in the next turn.

 

I either should have left a smaller gap between the Blightlords and my main force, or waited for the Genestealer squads to be further away from his back lines. Either way... I was impatient.

I find it hard being patient as well, always keen to get stuck in. Can I ask how you run your terms lord?

[McElMcNinja]

Similar thing with me, I thought I could take out a unit of genestealers and brood lord. I was so confident I was going to make that charge, rolled 3. Not even a command point would help. I should have waited a turn or gone in near my 3 amigos. What hurt the most was what took out my termies, my Poxwalkers took out. Edited March 13, 2018 by McElMcNinja

[Calistarius]

I confess that I don't know much about Death Guard.  Unfortunately, I sold mine off before the codex dropped.  I just lost interest too quickly.  I regret that now.  That being said, there is a particularly nasty zombie horde list circulating the ETC scene.  Apparently, it is tearing things up with only a couple of hard counters.  I'm sure everyone is familiar with it in these parts, but I had never even considered it as a possibility before.  I'm surprised I've yet to face something like this.

 

It uses around 180 cultists and 30ish pox walkers.  Abaddon and Typhus make an appearance for buffs and CP, and a sorcerer for prescience and warptime.  Every turn revolves around Cloud of Flies and The Dead Walk Again.  There's a Tallyman, and a few other units to flavor. 

 

It may not seem fun to most people, but I really dig zombies.  Having a constant pox walker farm sounds disgustingly fun to me as well.  It isn't your typical DG list, and I think most would consider it Chaos "soup", but I dig it.  I can post it in the list review section if anyone is interested.  

[McElMcNinja]

I've got a similar list, just haven't played it yet. It has 20 Cultists and 20 Poxwalkers, mostly because I only have 20 Cultists and 40 Poxwalkers. After finally playing DWA and CoF effectively, I think the potential of me going bigger is a lot better now. I am thinking of getting the box with the new Typhus, 5 Blightlords, and I think 18 Poxwalkers. All things I would want if I did go bigger.

[Panzer]

A zombie horde list certainly is cool and fun but that's barely a Death Guard list I'd say.

Like a list with 90% Kroot is not a T'au Empire list, a list with 90% Tzaangors not a TSons list and so on.

[Prot]

Yes I agree it works, but I can only speak personally it's not why I play Deathguard, and it's why I gave up on Thousand Sons... GW can try cramming mega model builds for power playing, but I just really don't play Chaos for the unending horde mentality. I know it sells models, but it's just not my thing. If you're playing Death Guard because that's what you're into, that's fine to me,  but personally I'm more into the corrupted Astartes stuff and daemons a bit.

 

I think you can still make strong lists without going wholesale into that horde mentality. It might be harder, but you can do it.

[Calistarius]

I’d agree with those sentiments. It’s only Death Guard in that it uses a detachment and stratagems. It definitely isn’t a conventional Heretic Astartes force. I just found it interesting after a conversation with a few competitive players from various places in Europe. They were saying that it is strange to them that our meta in America is completely different than theirs. They said ours is months behind what they have. Dark Reapers were given as an example. They dealt with that for a few months before it caught on here. They have different counters for things that I hadn’t considered.

 

Just thought I’d share in case there were other zombie enthusiasts.

[Checkmate77]

Calistarius - Care to share some of those counters with the rest of us? ;) 

 

Especially against builds like Dark Reapers I'll take all the advice I can get. 

 

I'll jump in with the crowd here in regards to Plague Zombies.  When 8th edition came out I was super excited that plague zombies were not officially part of the new Deathguard Codex.  Now however, that they seem to have replaced PMs as the core of most army lists I've seen, I just don't want to play them any more. 

 

Death Guard core should, IMHO, be Plague Marines.  It might be harder to play/win with them than with PZ, but I think it's doable with the proper builds.

[BlackTriton]

It is totally possible to have a death guard list that includes plague marine and have it be competitive .

At least one tournament ETC winning list used 9 plague marine.

It also featured, if I remember correctly, 30 pox walkers, multiple plague burst, DP.

No cultists, but some nurglings cause they are so damn good.

Plague marine are not the worst units in the game, and you can see them in some succesfull tournament list.

 

However, the 2 dominating archetype featuring deathguard in proeminent tournament are the zombi farm, and the daemon engine + epidemius.

[Calistarius]

Checkmate77, I would just look at some of the ETC winning lists for ideas. I wasn’t given a specific archetype to defeat them. They just said that the Dark Reapers came and have since fallen off. I’ve looked a couple of times recently, and it is interesting that they aren’t featured in many top 5s.

 

I wasn’t trying to urge anyone to play Death Guard one way or the other. I was merely suggesting an alternative? I also just really dig zombie movies/shows. If Plague marines are are your thing then I say keep after it! There’s combinations out there to make a lot of things work. If you dislike cultists/zombies then, for sure, disregard what I’ve said!

[McElMcNinja]

If they allowed more special weapons in larger units, I would probably take the max every chance I got. For now I like 7, harder to lose an entire unit turn 1 and still get at least 2 units in for 4 special weapons.

 

I think a unit of Poxwalkers (no Tyhpus) is better then a unit of Cultists. Same S/T, but added DR and no morale tests.

 

And I still don't understand why our Possessed don't have DR, they were once Plague Marines who had it and our other daemons do. Makes no sense.

[Prot]

I also prefer 7. I guess old habits die hard. I was working on my blog and found these wicked old pictures of My old Death Guard taken from a tournament I finished 2nd or 3rd in. I was flashing back to all the great vet skills you could give characters.

 

Although I prefer 7 I admit I think it’s hard to pull off in a competitive environment. I admit swapping to 5men plague marine squads when the crunch is on. But I definitely try to take 7. It would be amazing in my typical lists if we could take 15-20 with increased weapons that would be great. Especially with aura buffs due to their foot print. Even Blight Haulers would be improved as a result.

 

Have you got any more test games in?

[McElMcNinja]

That was the last one, been putting the finishing touches on a few things and my Tallyman. My battle foam showed up today (a little pricey, but worth it) and everything fits nice and snug.

 

Been reviewing the rosters and it looks like a lot of in my face armies, so I'm excited for that. I think with those I will keep my DP and drones back to counter charge. For sit back and shoot armies I plan on using those guys in conjunction with the Terminators and try to crush a flank. Hopefully cause enough havoc my main force can grab objectives and make him get them back.

[Prot]

That was the last one, been putting the finishing touches on a few things and my Tallyman. My battle foam showed up today (a little pricey, but worth it) and everything fits nice and snug.

 

Been reviewing the rosters and it looks like a lot of in my face armies, so I'm excited for that. I think with those I will keep my DP and drones back to counter charge. For sit back and shoot armies I plan on using those guys in conjunction with the Terminators and try to crush a flank. Hopefully cause enough havoc my main force can grab objectives and make him get them back.

 

Oh yea, I have some battle foam cases and they are just too expensive to get up to Canada so I use Army Transport for my new stuff, but I really do miss Battle Foam for big, awkward stuff like Daemon Princes, Mortarion, etc, etc.

 

I think 'in your face' armies will play to your strengths. I would really like you to get in a rematch on Custodes. You'll have to get a good feel for them going into a tournament I believe. If I could, I would playtest with you since I've used my Custodes a lot! ;)

 

Custodes have horrible weaknesses but will be paired up with potent stuff during tournaments. They will also excel in your wheelhouse so I think that may be a curveball you'll have to adjust to. Of course with crons around the corner who knows!?

 

Eldar might get their wings clipped with this FAQ in March; I'm waiting on that with baited breath.

 

Sit back and shoot (I'm hoping) dies with Necrons. They have historically been the anti-sit back and shoot army. You might see more Armigers too... we have to see the points on these to get a real expectation.

[Dallas Drake]

Can I pick people's brains? For a competitive (not nose bleed ITC level, but no fat) list I've been running a list based around 3 plaguespitter bloat-drones quite successfully, most opponents I've faced can drop one or two in a turn but generally they're tough as old boots & really graft for the list and I've been impressed with them. FWIW I've also been really impressed with the 2 blightspawn too, when they can get in range. The issue I've had is that I've experimented with a few of the 'long range' options like c-beam decimators and predators but I'm coming around to the idea that I'm better off having the majority of my list operating at medium to close range. With that in mind I have a decision about what to add: 1) 2x fleshmower bloat-drones & a poxbringer punting at virulent blessings probably rushing up with a DP, or 2) 2x PBCs with more plaguespitters and a poxbringer to go for fleshy abundance. Any thoughts would be great!

[McElMcNinja]

I would only do one fleshmower and two plague spitters, I run that combo a lot. You can hit infantry with the mower and tanks you can lock up with the others. Take a DP or teleport in some Deathshroud and Lord (of Contagion). Make the rest (in my opinion) Plague Marines with some characters and vehicles for support.

 

I always have fun with that list and it's still fairly competitive.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The plaguespitters are far more versatile and make up for the critical bs 4+ in a competitive environment. I love the look of the mower, but melee weapons on ws 4+ are way weaker than auto hit weapons on fly.

 

I can't comment too much on the long range stuff, aside from the relative cheapness of the Helbrute or how a usable the crawler is as a pseudo - drone. I don't think cbeams are too good though. Midrange weapons are really good if you go heavy on the launchers, arch contaminator and other weapons like the spitters, yadda yadda.

 

Lord of contagion is throwing points away in competitive. Daemon princes are usually a lot better

[Prot]

That's a good question. I don't know how many is really mandatory because of the list types. I use more with heavy Poxwalker lists I think. Deadman walking, and can't shoot unless their closest become more important there... and then you add in Perils results... it can be rough.

 

In my non-Poxwalkers I find I'm relying on the speed, and assault of my lists more, and perhaps the points are used much more on Re-rolls. I think 6-7 is about right.

 

For an example... in my Admech list, I feel like I need 9-12. That army lives in the shooting phase and it has to hurt like heck in that phase because it gets owned in the other phases. I dump CP's like jelly beans on that army on Strats and re-rolls.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Prot

[McElMcNinja]

All right, got all my minis painted, drove the 7 hours, and am sitting here looking over my list...

 

Now I'm wondering if anyone has some spell suggestions. I have 2 Plaguecasters and my DP, while I know what I think I should take, I didn't know if anyone had ideas on what to take vs certain lists. I'm all ears at this point.

[DaisyDuke]

Blades of putrification in my opinion is the worst as is the most specific, being only in combat. But even then if you have units with lots of plague weapons in combat and combined with veterans of long war. You’re getting mortal wounds on 5s. But all the other ones are better.

[McElMcNinja]

The only one I haven't even tried is Gift of Contagion, that one seems worse then Blades to me.

[DaisyDuke]

The only one I haven't even tried is Gift of Contagion, that one seems worse then Blades to me.

GoC unbelievably has more use. It’s both offensive and defensive. You can cast it on a unit you are about to charge or shoot by hoping to get the -1 toughness debuff. Or on unit that’s about to charge you where all the debuffs are valid. But the main benefit is it lasts until you’re next psychic phase and potentially effective for more units . Where’s blades only effective in your assault phase.

[DominikB]

The only one I haven't even tried is Gift of Contagion, that one seems worse then Blades to me.

I ran morty in a tournament an I loved blades when using he’s sweep attack mode,returning to wounding most things on 2s and doing extra mortal wounds

[McElMcNinja]

I'm a big fan of Blades. I usually take Curse of the Lepper against low T armies and Plague Wind for the higher ones or larger mobs.

 

I've been perusing the army lists and I see several with 6+ units of snipers and a few with 6+ units of reapers. The rest seem pretty standard which don't concern me as much as the first two.