Unit of the Week: Sanguinary Ancient

[Jolemai]

Welcome to the Blood Angels Unit of the Week Series!

Following the release of the 8^th edition Codex, there is no better time to discuss all the unique units we have access to. Each week a different unit will appear, with the idea being that we discuss how best to use that model on the battlefield.

Note, this isn't to lament any nerfs, etc, from previous editions; the rules are as they are so try to unlock its potential for those who wish to use them all the same.

Without further ado, here's this week's entry:

Sanguinary Ancient

What are you thoughts here folks? How best would you use your Sanguinary Ancient?

To compliment a list, or to build a list around? What bodyguard/entourage? Multiples?
What weaponry are you chosing?
Footslog or transport? Advance, or hold back?
As your Warlord?
Stratagems?

Over to you

[Jolemai]

Should you want your model on display here (or on another thread), then submit a photo here please.

[Paladin777]

Well... for Blood and zeal I’m assembling 4 sanguinary guard and one ancient and they will probably be attached at the hip... along with a warlord... probably the blender or my axe and inferno pistol flybrarian. He’d Probably be really good with the flybrarian as he can buff the squad and in turn he gets to reroll the 1’s of all his 2+ to wound most things. This is all theory crafting as I still don’t have enough angels to get a game in. Seems to me it might be a nice little Killy group! Edited March 6, 2018 by Paladin777

[CaptainHelion]

He really helps Sanguinary Guard last, which is great. And of course, the banner boosts Captains as well. Both functions excel even more with the Relic banner. 

[Silverson]

I played him twice (my first two games) this addition but sadly didn't enjoy running him as I wanted to. the reason's are,

 

If made the warlord to give sanguinary guard the "heirs of Azkaellon" benefit of re-rolling to hit, and given the relic standard of sacrifice to give them a 5++ save they both only work on models within six inches of the sanguinary ancient not units. what this meant for me was that on the turn the sanguinary guard deep struck and charged (with the 3d6 charge stratagem) was that hardly any of the sanguinary guard models benefited from either of those rules. tho they did benefit from the re-roll to wounds of 1 as it affects units, and got the benefit of "heirs of Azkaellon" in the shooting phase and the  standard of sacrifice for overwatch before the sanguinary guard charge.

 

I think the problem is with how I wanted to run him and not in the sanguinary ancient himself.

 

I think he is best suited to back field protection/buffing unit. giving devastators and other long range units the 5++, +1ld , re-roll 1 in cc if charged as some support. all this is mediocre to me but with the new info that a company ancient's "astartes banner" specifies any models within six inches of any ancient gets to make a final shooting attack or single attack in cc it elevates the sanguinary ancient as a strong unit when used in conjunction with the company ancient.

 

how would I use him.

I would split my sanguinary ancient and company ancient and  set up in different areas of my deployment anchoring my back line both buffing units around them. or drop the sanguinary ancient in alongside two units or devastators with grave/multimelta in a drop pod getting all the mentioned buffs and making them a relatively hard unit to move considering the 5++, re-roll 1's in cc (being closer to the enemy this being more likely than in the back field) +1 ld and getting to shoot again on a 4++, while keeping the company ancient safe at the back. 

[BluejayJunior]

I played him twice (my first two games) this addition but sadly didn't enjoy running him as I wanted to. the reason's are,

 

If made the warlord to give sanguinary guard the "heirs of Azkaellon" benefit of re-rolling to hit, and given the relic standard of sacrifice to give them a 5++ save they both only work on models within six inches of the sanguinary ancient not units. what this meant for me was that on the turn the sanguinary guard deep struck and charged (with the 3d6 charge stratagem) was that hardly any of the sanguinary guard models benefited from either of those rules. tho they did benefit from the re-roll to wounds of 1 as it affects units, and got the benefit of "heirs of Azkaellon" in the shooting phase and the  standard of sacrifice for overwatch before the sanguinary guard charge.

 

I think the problem is with how I wanted to run him and not in the sanguinary ancient himself.

 

I think he is best suited to back field protection/buffing unit. giving devastators and other long range units the 5++, +1ld , re-roll 1 in cc if charged as some support. all this is mediocre to me but with the new info that a company ancient's "astartes banner" specifies any models within six inches of any ancient gets to make a final shooting attack or single attack in cc it elevates the sanguinary ancient as a strong unit when used in conjunction with the company ancient.

 

how would I use him.

I would split my sanguinary ancient and company ancient and  set up in different areas of my deployment anchoring my back line both buffing units around them. or drop the sanguinary ancient in alongside two units or devastators with grave/multimelta in a drop pod getting all the mentioned buffs and making them a relatively hard unit to move considering the 5++, re-roll 1's in cc (being closer to the enemy this being more likely than in the back field) +1 ld and getting to shoot again on a 4++, while keeping the company ancient safe at the back. 

Interesting ideas. I may have to try something similar and see how it goes. Maybe starting the Sanguinary Guard on the table and keeping the Ancient with them. Or keeping him with one or two Intercessor squads that are moving up the board, while my other Ancient babysits units elsewhere. 

[Brother Crimson]

I was strictly using the company ancient because the shoot back ability is something unique and useful.

 

When I found out that RAW the banners can be relayed to the sanguinary ancient, he back in my list to replace my lieutenant. Stat wise 99 points for a character with either blade or fist, 2+ save, reroll wound aura AND shot back ability AND bonus to morale is extremely effective for melee units.

 

Strategy wise I don’t do that many fancy stuff, he starts on reserves and deep strike to buff DC or sang guard with either a chaplain or sanguinor himself. I sometimes try him as a warlord but

 

I do not think the FNP banner is best used on him, I prefer to give it to a character that starts on the table to give fragile gunline more survivability and to mitigate the alpha strike if I don’t get first turn. There is also the characters not following charge problem and all his other auras can work on units rather than models.

 

In short I just run him as a better melee buff lieutenant, and in that spot it rarely disappoints.

[Majkhel]

I've used him recently as a buff for a devastator line. He proved most useful in spiking up their survivability. And the shoot-back was marvellous when a HB devastator mustered his "last shot" using a Hellfire stratagem to put 3 MWs on a poor, unsuspecting Tau Commander! He was so sure it were the devs that were sitting ducks :P

[Calistarius]

I was strictly using the company ancient because the shoot back ability is something unique and useful.

When I found out that RAW the banners can be relayed to the sanguinary ancient, he back in my list to replace my lieutenant. Stat wise 99 points for a character with either blade or fist, 2+ save, reroll wound aura AND shot back ability AND bonus to morale is extremely effective for melee units.

Strategy wise I don’t do that many fancy stuff, he starts on reserves and deep strike to buff DC or sang guard with either a chaplain or sanguinor himself. I sometimes try him as a warlord but

I do not think the FNP banner is best used on him, I prefer to give it to a character that starts on the table to give fragile gunline more survivability and to mitigate the alpha strike if I don’t get first turn. There is also the characters not following charge problem and all his other auras can work on units rather than models.

In short I just run him as a better melee buff lieutenant, and in that spot it rarely disappoints.

Could you elaborate a little more in this? I’m not familiar with the relaying you mentioned. How can they gain something not in their profile?

[Panzer]

 

I was strictly using the company ancient because the shoot back ability is something unique and useful.

When I found out that RAW the banners can be relayed to the sanguinary ancient, he back in my list to replace my lieutenant. Stat wise 99 points for a character with either blade or fist, 2+ save, reroll wound aura AND shot back ability AND bonus to morale is extremely effective for melee units.

Strategy wise I don’t do that many fancy stuff, he starts on reserves and deep strike to buff DC or sang guard with either a chaplain or sanguinor himself. I sometimes try him as a warlord but

I do not think the FNP banner is best used on him, I prefer to give it to a character that starts on the table to give fragile gunline more survivability and to mitigate the alpha strike if I don’t get first turn. There is also the characters not following charge problem and all his other auras can work on units rather than models.

In short I just run him as a better melee buff lieutenant, and in that spot it rarely disappoints.

Could you elaborate a little more in this? I’m not familiar with the relaying you mentioned. How can they gain something not in their profile?

 

 

By a special rule from outside of course.

The Company Ancients effect is written in a way that other Ancients get the same "shoot on 4+ when dead" aura as well. ;)

[Calistarius]

 

 

I was strictly using the company ancient because the shoot back ability is something unique and useful.

When I found out that RAW the banners can be relayed to the sanguinary ancient, he back in my list to replace my lieutenant. Stat wise 99 points for a character with either blade or fist, 2+ save, reroll wound aura AND shot back ability AND bonus to morale is extremely effective for melee units.

Strategy wise I don’t do that many fancy stuff, he starts on reserves and deep strike to buff DC or sang guard with either a chaplain or sanguinor himself. I sometimes try him as a warlord but

I do not think the FNP banner is best used on him, I prefer to give it to a character that starts on the table to give fragile gunline more survivability and to mitigate the alpha strike if I don’t get first turn. There is also the characters not following charge problem and all his other auras can work on units rather than models.

In short I just run him as a better melee buff lieutenant, and in that spot it rarely disappoints.

 

Could you elaborate a little more in this? I’m not familiar with the relaying you mentioned. How can they gain something not in their profile?

 

By a special rule from outside of course.

The Company Ancients effect is written in a way that other Ancients get the same "shoot on 4+ when dead" aura as well. ;)

Well, that’s pretty dang sweet! I’ll have to consider finding a spot for my ancient then if that’s the case. Learn something new every day.

[Majkhel]

This came out in this thread: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344689-standard-of-sacrifice-question/

[Diagramdude]

Wow very cool, the Hellfire Shells stratagem can indeed be used during a banner death activation. It is used "just before a BLOOD ANGELS infantry model attacks with a heavy bolter."

[Paladin777]

Here’s an idea, what if you dropped a sanguinary ancient alongside some inceptors with the SoS? That combined with a captain could make for a lot of rerolled shots. In later Ternes, he can join melee with another unit using descent of Angels. Edited March 7, 2018 by Paladin777

[Kallas]

Here’s an idea, what if you dropped a sanguinary ancient alongside some inceptors with the SoS? That combined with a captain could make for a lot of rerolled shots. In later Ternes, he can join melee with another unit using descent of Angels.

Just remember: the Sanguinary Ancient allows wound rerolls in the Fight Phase, so would not benefit the Inceptors' shooting (though having the SoS seems like a good idea to keep around).

[Paladin777]

Right... Edited March 7, 2018 by Paladin777

[Brother Crimson]

Right...

[Calistarius]

 

Right...

Still probably a good way to get him on the table prior to the rest of the sanguinary guard to help him get the charge. Also a decent counter charger for the inceptors.

I thought the same, that he would be good to start on table early to protect shooting units until the guard drops but this is not where he belongs, he needs to be in the center of DCs Sanguinary Guards, Vanguard vets to be at his best.

A captain or company ancient can buff the inceptors and do the counter charge for shooting units.

Oh how I wish SoS worked in DC. The 6+++ is underwhelming. A 5+++ would have just been a real treat for them.

[Xerxus]

I have one in my list without the relic. The 6" range for models is too cumbersome in a list that depends on assault and mobility. He fills an elite slot which completes my vanguard detachment, provides a decent aura effect and is another survivable body available to tie up tanks, block fallbacks etc.

[Paladin777]

That’s fair enough. I personally intend on dropping mine down with the relic along with some inceptors the turn prior to dropping my sanguinary Guard to help with inceptors survival. After the chaff clearing he should have enough movement to accompany the sanguinary guard while they use DoA and command rerolls if necessary.

 

Death company will also likely be used in the chaff clearing process in the form of a suicide charge.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Paladin777