Blakklist Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Stupid question but I want to ask it before I try the ability and get in the inevitable conversation about how that ability works. The ability reads: If manifested, select a enemy CHARACTER that is within 18" of the psyker and visible to it (excluding the opponent's Warlord) and roll 2D6. if the result is greater than the character's Leadership, you can treat the model as if it were a friendly model in your army in your Shooting, Charge and Fight phases. At the end of the Fight phase, the character reverts to being an enemy model. Does that mean I gain control of an enemy character to shoot charge and fight as if it were mine or does it just mean that it is a friendly model in which I can gain benefits from his aura and what not? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 You'd get to use the model as if it's yours for that period. Auras and all, if they're even applicable. Neat option though regarding auras. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5030643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakklist Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 So could I charge something close to my models. Then have my models charge that character and attack with the character then attack the character, as well pass on letting that character attack my models back? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5030696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Technically it seems so. It specifies "can," showing treatment as friendly to be optional. That seems pretty potent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5030706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakklist Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 Nothing in the rules say I can’t attack friendly models right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5030745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 It does, but the "can" allows you to treat it as both a friendly and enemy model through the phases, just not both at the same time. I'd say it should be treated as a friendly unit, unless the caster expresses otherwise, for easiest interpretation and RAI. If not your opponent could by RAW spend CP to interupt and go first in an assault, which would be an interesting rules conundrum, to avoid your ability to target what you wanted for example. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5030900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 It does, but the "can" allows you to treat it as both a friendly and enemy model through the phases, just not both at the same time.What reason would you have to not treat it as a friendly model? That is all the power does Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5031231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 It does, but the "can" allows you to treat it as both a friendly and enemy model through the phases, just not both at the same time.What reason would you have to not treat it as a friendly model? That is all the power does To shoot or charge it for example? Or to smite it? Move into a position it doesn't want to be in and then have fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5031234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 To shoot or charge it for example? Or to smite it?Move into a position it doesn't want to be in and then have fun Do you really think moving the character to a spot where you can easily shoot/charge it is better than having him slaughter his comrades? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5031261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Depends on the character and the situation obviously. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5031262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Having an AM Psyker charge a bunch of Ogryn sounds hilarious too. The opponent cannot choose not to activate the Ogryns, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5031278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Yeah it does. But having a buff character charge a bunch of chaff is pretty useless. Better bring him into range and LOS of some guns ... or if the situation allows into charge range of your units. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5031306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) To shoot or charge it for example? Or to smite it?Move into a position it doesn't want to be in and then have fun Do you really think moving the character to a spot where you can easily shoot/charge it is better than having him slaughter his comrades?Having the unit treated as an enemy or friendly model causes numerous interesting factors. Forcing of who and where can counter attack and is the most likely the direction in which you or your opponents units will consolidate are the most likely. I started typing up an example but it's easier to explain with pictures or on the table, and I'm lazy Edit: Yes, you're forced to attack during the assault phase if you're locked in with enemy models. Edited March 13, 2018 by Zodd1888 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5031321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re'Koleq't Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I'd be interested to see where people add Treason to their lists as I find it far too unreliable to include as there's always more essential powers and slots are precious. I suppose on a aspiring as an afterthought fun option could work. It's a hilarious power though. Cheers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5032808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) Night Lords = -1 Leadership per unit within 6" (max -3) Chaos Spawn = -1 Leadership per Chaos Spawn within 1 "(ie. Unit of 3 = -3 Leadership) Phantasmagoria = -1 on WC 6 while within 12" of the manifester Take a few Night Lord units, Chaos Spawn, or pop some out via Psyker. Run them up the board for the 6" -1 and assault for extra as needed. Chaos Spawn and Slaaneshi Obliterators in a Night Lords detatchment. Endless Cacophony and leadership shenanigans FTW. Pretty solid. Edited: Correction in rules error. Edited March 16, 2018 by Zodd1888 Re'Koleq't 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5033021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 No legion tactics for spawns. Only for Infantry, Bikes, Helbrutes and Daemon Princes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5033159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Thanks Panzer. So lame regarding Chaos Spawn and no tactics. They're not a Daemon, nothing works on beasts, we've got one Strategem... Make legion tactics apply GW! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5033217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 It makes sense for Spawns tho. They don't really act in any controlled or trained way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5033221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I agree they don't act in a controlled manner, but I really wish they had a little something to tie them into the legions they're affiliated with. The whole not a Daemon but a former Astartes thing also applies to a Daemon Prince. They get the best of both worlds but the lowly Spawn continues to be a sack of random. Not that I dislike the sack of random, I just think it makes more sense to have Spawn pick a side and get a benefit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5033228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 In the fluff spawns turned on the Thousand Sons when the sorcerers got mutated, so it makes sense imho that they don't benefit from legion tactics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5033275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 The whole not a Daemon but a former Astartes thing also applies to a Daemon Prince. What now? Not only do Daemon Princes have the appropriate keyword, they also got daemon in their name. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5033288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 The whole not a Daemon but a former Astartes thing also applies to a Daemon Prince. What now? Not only do Daemon Princes have the appropriate keyword, they also got daemon in their name. What I meant was why does it work for Daemon Princes but not a Chaos Spawn. Intelligent versus animalistic? I didn't know that regarding the loss of control when the sorcerers dropped, that's neat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5033353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Because Daemon Princes are still sane and basically the same guy as before but just a daemon now lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5033357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re'Koleq't Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Night Lords = -1 Leadership per unit within 6" (max -3) Chaos Spawn = -1 Leadership per Chaos Spawn within 1 "(ie. Unit of 3 = -3 Leadership) Phantasmagoria = -1 on WC 6 while within 12" of the manifester Take a few Night Lord units, Chaos Spawn, or pop some out via Psyker. Run them up the board for the 6" -1 and assault for extra as needed. Chaos Spawn and Slaaneshi Obliterators in a Night Lords detatchment. Endless Cacophony and leadership shenanigans FTW. Pretty solid. Edited: Correction in rules error. I'm a stickler for pure TS as I'm determined to see if we can hack it on our own. So multiple spawn in the same unit confers multiple -1 to Ld? Wow I missed that. Could be sneaky if your opponent ignores them due to target saturation. Nice one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5033657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Forgot one. MVB = -1 Leadership within 9" (max -3). Yeah, I totally missed that on the Chaos Spawn previously. It's actually pretty crazy how much you can stack leadership debuffs with Spawn, and how effective they are at breaking hordes. I see a lot of splitting Spawn on flanks but it's seeming to be more effective to counter charge with Spawn and wipe a unit through leadership. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345194-treason-of-tzeentch/#findComment-5033782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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