Speculation & spoilers regarding The Magos, Pariah etc

[Ubiquitous1984]

Considering how Godblight ended with a bang for the setting that they seem to be leading up to even with Psychic Awakening, Codex fluff like the acts of faith of the Sororitas, and potentially even Wraight's Watchers of the Throne and Vaults of Terra, we might be in for some big shakeups for 10th Edition or beyond as-is.

Looking at the Squats returning and the timeline rejigging, I get the feeling that certain Black Library folks are more directly working towards the future of the setting than most of their stable.

 

Guy Haley, iirc, was said to have jumped much closer to the studio on the fluff side with Darkness in the Blood, and it's only gotten tighter with Dawn of Fire, I'd bet. He also said that it'll end with some big surprises for the readers, with some big oomph for the setting in a way. At least that was the early premise for the series. The way it already hooks up to some of the books from before, and how Godblight was pushed back as a result, with the twist being revealed and now worked up to again, it seems very deliberate.

 

I'd go as far as to say that the current 9th Edition and the current era of novels is firmly in the Preparation Phase. The studio hasn't been pushing hard on the fluff side lately, probably also due to covid slowing down production, but at this point I'd see it as more intentional. 8th had the entire Psychic Awakening stuff, Ghazghkull, etc. A lot of big events. 9th currently lacks those for the most part. Factions are being brought up to speed, models renewed, factions fleshed out or even added. But fluff-wise, the biggest thing are the Voltann-Squats, and I'd be surprised if a bunch of the fluff coming up won't be trying to tie them closer into the current fluff.

 

To me, it looks like the actually big, significant events that they started pushing with the Fall of Cadia, are being reserved for later in the 9th Edition cycle, to lead up to 10th and open that with another bang like they did by introducing Primaris, a new imperial crusade, the Rift and so forth.

 

From that perspective, I'd consider Dawn of Fire and Bequin/Pandaemonium as well as the upcoming Wraight books - heck, maybe even Black Legion 3, if it happens anytime soon - a good indicator of things to come. Too many plot threads both from BL and the studio that seem to herald something big in the not-too-distant future.

 

I wouldn't have believed this a few years back, when Penitent was eternally pending and the universe was for all intents stagnant. I didn't believe that Abnett would turn around and go as deep with the Yellow King as it appears after Penitent. But now, with the setting in upheaval? I'd be surprised if they ended up pulling these punches after all.

 

tl;dr

I'd argue 9th Edition and "main thread"-novels released during it to be effectively leading up to another big change in 10th Edition, and we're currently seeing more preparatory and repair work for the holes of 8th with its timeline weirdness and Psychic Awakening. It'd also explain some odd scheduling over the last few years, and growing narrative boldness from certain authors.

Great post, just a couple of things to add - I tweeted Guy about Squats after he posted about how excited he was to see them return.  He said that he didn’t know they were coming back and therefore ‘doesn’t know much about them at the moment’.  When I asked him if that means they could appear in the DoF series he said it is a possibility.  What a re-introduction that would be!

 

Second, I think there will be major implications from SoT books 7 and 8 for the wider 40K universe.  Since so many authors are involved in this series, with the main threads being decided by them years ago, it’s possible that the general lack of narrative progression in 9th edition is due to waiting for events that are yet to be revealed in Echoes and whatever Dan is going to call the final book(s).  I imagine book 8 will tack a closer look at the Emperor’s condition post-Horus, as well as the Golden Throne itself, and this may have a significant tie-in with Dan’s final Bequin book.  

 

Exciting times!   

Edited April 24, 2022 by Ubiquitous1984

[DukeLeto69]

@DC I really hope so, I really do!

[byrd9999]

I like the idea that:

 

 

The Cognitae/The Yellow King/Valdor have been working since the Heresy to kill the Corpse Emperor so he can be reborn anew. And it's the Inquisition who have been working against the Emperor.

 

 

What a mindfudge that is for the Imperium! And I bet the Imperium wins out... lol. Very grimdark.

 

 

It also:

 

 

Gives credibility to my Thousand Sons 40k army being secret loyalists (head canon). Like Alpha Legion, but cooler. Just gotta reunite Magnus with his shards and then he can reveal he was duping Tzeentch all along and is ready to give the Big E a break and take his place on the Golden Throne.  

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by byrd9999

[Moonreaper666]

A few problems

 

 

 

-I doubt the Emperor is still a Perpetual after what Horus did to him

 

-Wouldn't Chaos know of Valdor's plans?

 

-Why would the Emperor being out of a coma change things? Chaos would pull another 'Horus' out of the bag.

 

 

[Lord_Ikka]

Re-reading the series, totally missed out on the Magos and Perihelion last time when I read the Bequin novels, those really clear up some stuff...

 

On 5/29/2022 at 9:02 PM, Moonreaper666 said:

A few problems

 

 

  Hide contents

 

-I doubt the Emperor is still a Perpetual after what Horus did to him

 

-Wouldn't Chaos know of Valdor's plans?

 

-Why would the Emperor being out of a coma change things? Chaos would pull another 'Horus' out of the bag.

 

 

1. That's hit or miss right now- we only know that Horus "mortally wounded" the Emperor. Whatever that means for an uber-psychic Perpetual is unknown.

2. Given that he's making extensive use of pariahs, possibly not. The involvement of Word Bearers/Emperor's Children do seem to point to some Chaos forces/factions having suspicions about what the Yellow King is doing.

3. The Star Child philosophy is that with the Emperor dead, he can be reborn or manifested into a new body (possibly one that already is alive a la a living saint but more so). Thus, the Star Children cult wants to kill the Emperor to bring him back.

[lansalt]

I'd say that...

Spoiler

There are several facts that point to a plot twist in the way the Emperor was wounded at the end of the Heresy:

• We've been told many times that the Emperor is the "Anathema" and impervious to chaos. Except for Drach'nyen, which is his symbolic opposite but was not used by Horus.
• Sigismund told Abbadon that Horus died ashamed and in tears.
• He was wounded once in antiquity by Ollanius AKA the original perpetual named Horus using Enuncia
• Both the Bequin series and the final Siege of Terra novel are being written by Abnett.
• There's a repeated theme of the most powerful warp power being sourced in the biggest meaningful sacrifices and betrayals since the original HH trilogy
• There's a repeated theme of the Emperor and his Custodians appearing weak and almost defeated only to be revealed at the end to be a deception in a larger plan. It can be seen in that GC scene when the Emperor was going to be killed by an big Ork Warboss, in Valdor's novel, or in The Regent's Shadow.
• Valdor's novel opens with a dialogue between him and the Emperor that hints at a big plan to cheat everybody including his own people to win over the Chaos Gods

My idea is that it will be revealed that the Emperor easily defeated Horus, but he manipulated the perpetuals and the original Horus (Ollanius) to wound him in order to create the narrative needed to setup an Imperium obssesed with him without real opposition. He actually always wanted to become a God to bind all human souls to him like the Eldar are to Slaanesh, but in a controlled way to free Humanity from the chaos gods and help humans evolve.

The grimdark part will be if he has lost control by 40k and become another warp entity focused in devouring souls like it has been hinted in the Dark Imperium series, or his plan is still going on with Valdor working behind the scenes in the Bequin series and the Star Child stuff to avoid that problem.

 

[Moonreaper666]

On 8/18/2022 at 3:23 AM, lansalt said:

I'd say that...

  Hide contents

There are several facts that point to a plot twist in the way the Emperor was wounded at the end of the Heresy:

• We've been told many times that the Emperor is the "Anathema" and impervious to chaos. Except for Drach'nyen, which is his symbolic opposite but was not used by Horus.
• Sigismund told Abbadon that Horus died ashamed and in tears.
• He was wounded once in antiquity by Ollanius AKA the original perpetual named Horus using Enuncia
• Both the Bequin series and the final Siege of Terra novel are being written by Abnett.
• There's a repeated theme of the most powerful warp power being sourced in the biggest meaningful sacrifices and betrayals since the original HH trilogy
• There's a repeated theme of the Emperor and his Custodians appearing weak and almost defeated only to be revealed at the end to be a deception in a larger plan. It can be seen in that GC scene when the Emperor was going to be killed by an big Ork Warboss, in Valdor's novel, or in The Regent's Shadow.
• Valdor's novel opens with a dialogue between him and the Emperor that hints at a big plan to cheat everybody including his own people to win over the Chaos Gods

My idea is that it will be revealed that the Emperor easily defeated Horus, but he manipulated the perpetuals and the original Horus (Ollanius) to wound him in order to create the narrative needed to setup an Imperium obssesed with him without real opposition. He actually always wanted to become a God to bind all human souls to him like the Eldar are to Slaanesh, but in a controlled way to free Humanity from the chaos gods and help humans evolve.

The grimdark part will be if he has lost control by 40k and become another warp entity focused in devouring souls like it has been hinted in the Dark Imperium series, or his plan is still going on with Valdor working behind the scenes in the Bequin series and the Star Child stuff to avoid that problem.

 

 

I doubt that would be the case as the Chaos Gods each have much better farsight than the Emperor. Plus evidence of Chaos screwing up his plans again and again:

-Emperor did not predict and did not want the Scattering of the Primarchs

-Magnus breaching the Webway

-Which Primarchs went Traitor or Loyal somewhat surprised him

Spoiler

Pandemonium will end with Valdor, Eisenhorn and Bequin dead

Whatever plot twist the final Inquisitor book will have IT WILL NOT BE GOOD for the Imperium

Besides, emperor is a weakling compared to Slaanesh

Eidolon with support almost beat Dorn in close combat

Shalaxi Helbane is fully capable of killing Guilliman 1 vs 1

[DarkChaplain]

I suppose your farsight has even the Gods beat...

 

Speculation on Pandaemonium/Siege:

Valdor might be trying to rectify an error he is about to make in the Siege, by letting Basilio Fo create his gene-phage.

He's obviously expecting Fo to be working on an Anti-Primarch toxin, but what - warp aside - is the common factor between them? The Emperor's own genetic material. And plenty of it. What if the phage is part of what debilitates the Emperor to the point of needing to be hooked up to the Throne, rather than just the exhaustion from months of holding the Aegis, the Webway and so much direct pressure from Horus, plus the actual duel aboard the Vengeful Spirit, along with the wounding?

In other words: What if Valdor miscalculates on this anti-Horus-weapon - where he already might accept the collateral damage on Dorn, Sanguinius and all Astartes, for the sake of winning the war - and it impacts his master instead? It might well bring him onto a ten millennia path of trying to bring the Emperor back, creating vessels for anti-daemons in preparation for the Greater Grael, a body capable of containing the Emperor's essence. It might be motivation enough for him to rectify his mistake born from fear and doubt.

We know that Fo loathes the Emperor, considers him basically what's wrong with the galaxy. A blunt brute with little artifice, who blights the galaxy with his empire and tasteless creations that bring ruin upon everything. He's an arrogant twat, Fo is, and I would readily believe that - given the chance - he'd just as soon prioritize eradicating the Emperor as he would agree to kill off the Primarchs and Legiones Astartes. To him, those would likely be delightful collateral damage, not the prize.

I've long wondered what the point of Basilio Fo's involvement in the Siege was, but considering the last we saw of him was in Warhawk, where Valdor authorizes his project, while questioning his decision and whether he was going against the Emperor's intent with it, and that going by the Dramatis Personae, neither Valdor nor Fo are part of Echoes of Eternity, the payoff for this plotline has to arrive in The End and the Death - Dan Abnett's finale - it would make sense for him to wrap it back to Ravenor vs Eisenhorn. Basilio Fo has not been introduced to the Siege of Terra until Abnett's Saturnine, either - so that would indicate that Abnett is the one wanting to utilize him (and while both Mortis and Warhawk are moving him across the board, neither actually does something with him otherwise, while Echoes ignores him).

This seems like Abnett's baby, and the connection to Valdor calling uneasy shots regarding him makes me believe that one way or another, what happens with Fo in The End and the Death will be at the very least an indirect tie / setup for what will be revealed in Pandaemonium. If not, Fo should have been struck from the planning of the Siege entirely.

[System Sound]

Stumbled upon this painting today. I wonder if this was a major inspiration for the place that was in the end of Penitent.

 

Spoiler

Pandemonium by John Martin 1825

 

 

[Moonreaper666]

The End and The Death is a must read before Pandemonium since Valdor is a main character there

 

Spoiler

Moriana's appearance in TEaTD is no coincidence

 

Valdor's descent into madness makes him a Radical Inquisitor

 

[DukeLeto69]

12 hours ago, System Sound said:

Stumbled upon this painting today. I wonder if this was a major inspiration for the place that was in the end of Penitent.

 

  Hide contents

Pandemonium by John Martin 1825

 

 

Without a doubt. And the name of the third book (different spelling) Pandaemonium (literally city of daemons).

9 hours ago, Moonreaper666 said:

The End and The Death is a must read before Pandemonium since Valdor is a main character there

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Moriana's appearance in TEaTD is no coincidence

 

Valdor's descent into madness makes him a Radical Inquisitor

 

Or Valdor is actually doing the Emperor’s bidding still!

[Moonreaper666]

1 hour ago, DukeLeto69 said:

Without a doubt. And the name of the third book (different spelling) Pandaemonium (literally city of daemons).

Or Valdor is actually doing the Emperor’s bidding still!

 

That's what all Radical and Heretical Inquisitors say

 

What the Warp/Chaos can't corrupt it can drive insane

 

Besides, Bequin will use Enuncia to kill Valdor at the cost of her own life. Inquisitors killing Inquisitors (Valdor is metaphorically an Inquisitor post-Heresy)

[DukeLeto69]

1 hour ago, Moonreaper666 said:

 

That's what all Radical and Heretical Inquisitors say

 

What the Warp/Chaos can't corrupt it can drive insane

 

Besides, Bequin will use Enuncia to kill Valdor at the cost of her own life. Inquisitors killing Inquisitors (Valdor is metaphorically an Inquisitor post-Heresy)

I think you are wrong but we shall see!

 

Abnett is far more tricksy than that. We think we know what is going on at the end of Penitent. I say we don’t and more twists are coming.

[DarkChaplain]

Spoiler

We've seen very recently just how the Inquisitor-Custodes dynamic tends to work, and how ingrained awe and subservience to the mythical status of the Emperor's personal guards can be in people of the 41st Millennium. Even if they don't know who Valdor is, they'll most assuredly know what he is and what he represents.

 

Valdor also left Terra decades, maybe even a century post-Siege, and was doing paperwork when he decided it's time to leave (parallel to Russ's departure). The two of them also had a good little chat in the palace after the traitors were fleeing and Russ & the Lion arrived late. Before the Lion stabs Russ comatose, too.

And that's in a story specifically introducing us to the spear Valdor uses and what effects it has on him.

 

"Chaos Valdor" would be a total 180 on what we've seen of him last, his last conversations with Russ - the Emperor's loyal "hound"! - and it would be especially weird if the whole "corrupted Valdor" came down to stuff he actually experienced before those outings.

 

That is not to say that the events of TEATD won't be a vital point in putting Valdor onto the road to Bequin. But to think he'd get high on the Chaos koolaid, rather than an elaborate scheme in either the Emperor's name or in the spirit of his original goals, is wishlisting again, and - at least right now - not grounded in the available sources.

 

Especially when we take into account that the Yellow King is working on Eudaemonic stuff, as a supposed counterpoint to Chaos, and there are entanglements with the Cognitae - a "cult" based around Enuncia that has been active since at least the Great Crusade but seemingly still has its roots back in Babylon, which the Yellow King might at the least be utilizing in some wider scheme,

 

We also still have the matter of Lilean Chase potentially open for settlement. Her death is, at best, implied, and it is her stuff that points towards Valdor. We have some questions left open on her past, too - including how she even got away in the first place. She's also been brought up again in both The Keeler Image and The Magos, and then in Penitent, potentially being Mam Mordaunt. And we've been told she was dead before, by Ravenor, back in Rogue. "Long dead" she was not. And Lilean Chase's apprehension/death was supposedly a big stepping stone in Lord Inquisitor Plebas Alessandro Rorken's (love that name) climb to Grand Master of the Ordo Xenos Helican.

 

Now, we are told that the King in Yellow has been both to Sortiarius, Sicarus and the Black Library. He's supposedly looking for the Emperor's True Name - which might serve many uses, but is undoubtedly a threat beyond anything in the wrong hands. However, it could also serve to unshackle him from the Throne. We don't know the King's motives yet.

We do, however, know that he's pretty much at war with all the remaining traitor Legions.

 

And considering that Chase's book is entirely the name of Valdor, including all known appendices Custodians earn throughout their service, we can be pretty damn sure that the Cognitae were no more than tools to him, and were looking for a way to turn the power dynamics back around. But that Chase could ever have learned the whole name is going to be a big deal, I believe. There's more here than meets the eye.

 

Now, we know that Lilean Chase used to be an Inquisitor and was said to be a Recongregator. THIS is important. Recongregators believe that the Imperium as it exists now is inherently corrupt and needs to be overthrown and redesigned from the ground. Part of their background is that they might plant damning evidence to lead the Imperium into upheaval, undermine ruling castes and topple systems. They're cunning and try to turn the Imperium on itself.

 

What better way to shake the Imperium to its foundations than to turn THE Custodian, the Emperor's favorite, the Captain-General, against the Inquisition - or rather, the other way around. This whole damn series is overgrown with manipulations by unknown powers, and I'd consider it a big laugh to Chase if she were to deflect Eisenhorn and Ravenor - two of her most dogged pursuers - right into an enemy of her own, whose loyalty questioned might even lead to much bigger suspicions within the Ordos about the Custodes back on Terra. Especially those that believe the Emperor might rise from his Throne one day.

 

And then we have the Horusians on the other side, who play right into the Dark King stuff from TEATD. While Moriana is introduced in that book at last, officially, I still don't put it beyond Dan to replace her with either Kat or Cyrene/Actae,

 

Quoting Lexicanum here for an easy summary:

Quote

 The ideal that is espoused by the Horusians is that the power of Chaos that manifested in Horus might be harnessed for the creation of a Divine Avatar, or perhaps can serve in the process of transferring the Emperor's soul from the Golden Throne into the body of a living god. Some Horusians believe that Horus might have succeeded controlling the Warp had he not been stopped by his brother Primarchs.

 

Going further, their belief that a new avatar could be created to host the Emperor's soul and their hunt for Living Saints sounds awfully relevant to what's being done with the Graels (funny coincidence, Grael Noctua of the Sons of Horus serves as host to Tormageddon, aka daemon-Torgaddon. His ascension to Mournival was first discussed in Abnett's Little Horus short, but the possession occured in Vengeful Spirit by McNeill. Then again, Tormageddon was made up by Abnett in Know No Fear!).

 

Then we have Promeus, who was Lemuel Gaumon, and supposedly was one of the original Resurrectionists and fought Moriana over how to bring the Emperor back. We know he's also got a history with Magnus and Ahriman, and also hosted a Shard of Magnus for a bit.

 

Tl;dr There's SO MUCH MORE than meets the eye in this overarching series that Abnett might consider or have considered in his twists.

 

We know he had to get lore guru permission to do what he did, and a lot of legwork was done on specific characters and arcs in the meantime, both by him and other authors (like Wraight). We've been misdirected multiple times throughout Eisenhorn, Ravenor and Bequin, and the Heresy too, and I don't believe this will stop here at the end of Penitent and TEATD Vol.1. Pandaemonium has so much to draw on, and we can be sure that the extreme delays between installments of the Bequin trilogy are in large part due to all this stuff that's happening on the Heresy side too, including Valdor's Primarchs novel.

 

It'll be interesting as all hell to go back after Pandaemonium happens (probably not before late 2024 at the earliest, but likely no sooner than 2025 even if Abnett wants to write it soon after the Siege wraps up) and pick up all the strands that were laid out in the past decade that we might not even have picked up on at all.

[Moonreaper666]

6 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

  Hide contents

We've seen very recently just how the Inquisitor-Custodes dynamic tends to work, and how ingrained awe and subservience to the mythical status of the Emperor's personal guards can be in people of the 41st Millennium. Even if they don't know who Valdor is, they'll most assuredly know what he is and what he represents.

 

Valdor also left Terra decades, maybe even a century post-Siege, and was doing paperwork when he decided it's time to leave (parallel to Russ's departure). The two of them also had a good little chat in the palace after the traitors were fleeing and Russ & the Lion arrived late. Before the Lion stabs Russ comatose, too.

And that's in a story specifically introducing us to the spear Valdor uses and what effects it has on him.

 

"Chaos Valdor" would be a total 180 on what we've seen of him last, his last conversations with Russ - the Emperor's loyal "hound"! - and it would be especially weird if the whole "corrupted Valdor" came down to stuff he actually experienced before those outings.

 

That is not to say that the events of TEATD won't be a vital point in putting Valdor onto the road to Bequin. But to think he'd get high on the Chaos koolaid, rather than an elaborate scheme in either the Emperor's name or in the spirit of his original goals, is wishlisting again, and - at least right now - not grounded in the available sources.

 

Especially when we take into account that the Yellow King is working on Eudaemonic stuff, as a supposed counterpoint to Chaos, and there are entanglements with the Cognitae - a "cult" based around Enuncia that has been active since at least the Great Crusade but seemingly still has its roots back in Babylon, which the Yellow King might at the least be utilizing in some wider scheme,

 

We also still have the matter of Lilean Chase potentially open for settlement. Her death is, at best, implied, and it is her stuff that points towards Valdor. We have some questions left open on her past, too - including how she even got away in the first place. She's also been brought up again in both The Keeler Image and The Magos, and then in Penitent, potentially being Mam Mordaunt. And we've been told she was dead before, by Ravenor, back in Rogue. "Long dead" she was not. And Lilean Chase's apprehension/death was supposedly a big stepping stone in Lord Inquisitor Plebas Alessandro Rorken's (love that name) climb to Grand Master of the Ordo Xenos Helican.

 

Now, we are told that the King in Yellow has been both to Sortiarius, Sicarus and the Black Library. He's supposedly looking for the Emperor's True Name - which might serve many uses, but is undoubtedly a threat beyond anything in the wrong hands. However, it could also serve to unshackle him from the Throne. We don't know the King's motives yet.

We do, however, know that he's pretty much at war with all the remaining traitor Legions.

 

And considering that Chase's book is entirely the name of Valdor, including all known appendices Custodians earn throughout their service, we can be pretty damn sure that the Cognitae were no more than tools to him, and were looking for a way to turn the power dynamics back around. But that Chase could ever have learned the whole name is going to be a big deal, I believe. There's more here than meets the eye.

 

Now, we know that Lilean Chase used to be an Inquisitor and was said to be a Recongregator. THIS is important. Recongregators believe that the Imperium as it exists now is inherently corrupt and needs to be overthrown and redesigned from the ground. Part of their background is that they might plant damning evidence to lead the Imperium into upheaval, undermine ruling castes and topple systems. They're cunning and try to turn the Imperium on itself.

 

What better way to shake the Imperium to its foundations than to turn THE Custodian, the Emperor's favorite, the Captain-General, against the Inquisition - or rather, the other way around. This whole damn series is overgrown with manipulations by unknown powers, and I'd consider it a big laugh to Chase if she were to deflect Eisenhorn and Ravenor - two of her most dogged pursuers - right into an enemy of her own, whose loyalty questioned might even lead to much bigger suspicions within the Ordos about the Custodes back on Terra. Especially those that believe the Emperor might rise from his Throne one day.

 

And then we have the Horusians on the other side, who play right into the Dark King stuff from TEATD. While Moriana is introduced in that book at last, officially, I still don't put it beyond Dan to replace her with either Kat or Cyrene/Actae,

 

Quoting Lexicanum here for an easy summary:

 

Going further, their belief that a new avatar could be created to host the Emperor's soul and their hunt for Living Saints sounds awfully relevant to what's being done with the Graels (funny coincidence, Grael Noctua of the Sons of Horus serves as host to Tormageddon, aka daemon-Torgaddon. His ascension to Mournival was first discussed in Abnett's Little Horus short, but the possession occured in Vengeful Spirit by McNeill. Then again, Tormageddon was made up by Abnett in Know No Fear!).

 

Then we have Promeus, who was Lemuel Gaumon, and supposedly was one of the original Resurrectionists and fought Moriana over how to bring the Emperor back. We know he's also got a history with Magnus and Ahriman, and also hosted a Shard of Magnus for a bit.

 

Tl;dr There's SO MUCH MORE than meets the eye in this overarching series that Abnett might consider or have considered in his twists.

 

We know he had to get lore guru permission to do what he did, and a lot of legwork was done on specific characters and arcs in the meantime, both by him and other authors (like Wraight). We've been misdirected multiple times throughout Eisenhorn, Ravenor and Bequin, and the Heresy too, and I don't believe this will stop here at the end of Penitent and TEATD Vol.1. Pandaemonium has so much to draw on, and we can be sure that the extreme delays between installments of the Bequin trilogy are in large part due to all this stuff that's happening on the Heresy side too, including Valdor's Primarchs novel.

 

It'll be interesting as all hell to go back after Pandaemonium happens (probably not before late 2024 at the earliest, but likely no sooner than 2025 even if Abnett wants to write it soon after the Siege wraps up) and pick up all the strands that were laid out in the past decade that we might not even have picked up on at all.

 

I doubt Valdor succeeds in his insane plan since that would butterfly away a lot of events in the 41st Millenium

 

Bequin and Eisenhorn sacrifice their lives to kill Valdor. Ravernor is stated to have a longer career than his mentor so he could have survived Pandemonium

 

If Bequin failed then ALL of the Craftworld Eldar OBLITERATE Valdor, killing TRILLIONS of Imperials in the process

 

 

[DarkChaplain]

8 hours ago, Moonreaper666 said:

 

I doubt Valdor succeeds in his insane plan since that would butterfly away a lot of events in the 41st Millenium

 

You say that as if any of us actually knew what his plan even is, or if he's in the book at all. We don't. I don't. You don't.

 

.....and please, drop the completely out of the blue fanfic stuff. Yes, this is a speculation thread, but there's a significant difference between speculating and wishlisting with no basis whatsoever. QUADRILLIONS of voices cry out in anguish every time.

[Moonreaper666]

1 hour ago, DarkChaplain said:

 

You say that as if any of us actually knew what his plan even is, or if he's in the book at all. We don't. I don't. You don't.

 

.....and please, drop the completely out of the blue fanfic stuff. Yes, this is a speculation thread, but there's a significant difference between speculating and wishlisting with no basis whatsoever. QUADRILLIONS of voices cry out in anguish every time.

 

The Eldar said to Ravernor that if he fails they would send Six Craftworlds to the area and blow everything up

 

Valdor can't beat Six Craftworlds

[DukeLeto69]

18 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

  Hide contents

We've seen very recently just how the Inquisitor-Custodes dynamic tends to work, and how ingrained awe and subservience to the mythical status of the Emperor's personal guards can be in people of the 41st Millennium. Even if they don't know who Valdor is, they'll most assuredly know what he is and what he represents.

 

Valdor also left Terra decades, maybe even a century post-Siege, and was doing paperwork when he decided it's time to leave (parallel to Russ's departure). The two of them also had a good little chat in the palace after the traitors were fleeing and Russ & the Lion arrived late. Before the Lion stabs Russ comatose, too.

And that's in a story specifically introducing us to the spear Valdor uses and what effects it has on him.

 

"Chaos Valdor" would be a total 180 on what we've seen of him last, his last conversations with Russ - the Emperor's loyal "hound"! - and it would be especially weird if the whole "corrupted Valdor" came down to stuff he actually experienced before those outings.

 

That is not to say that the events of TEATD won't be a vital point in putting Valdor onto the road to Bequin. But to think he'd get high on the Chaos koolaid, rather than an elaborate scheme in either the Emperor's name or in the spirit of his original goals, is wishlisting again, and - at least right now - not grounded in the available sources.

 

Especially when we take into account that the Yellow King is working on Eudaemonic stuff, as a supposed counterpoint to Chaos, and there are entanglements with the Cognitae - a "cult" based around Enuncia that has been active since at least the Great Crusade but seemingly still has its roots back in Babylon, which the Yellow King might at the least be utilizing in some wider scheme,

 

We also still have the matter of Lilean Chase potentially open for settlement. Her death is, at best, implied, and it is her stuff that points towards Valdor. We have some questions left open on her past, too - including how she even got away in the first place. She's also been brought up again in both The Keeler Image and The Magos, and then in Penitent, potentially being Mam Mordaunt. And we've been told she was dead before, by Ravenor, back in Rogue. "Long dead" she was not. And Lilean Chase's apprehension/death was supposedly a big stepping stone in Lord Inquisitor Plebas Alessandro Rorken's (love that name) climb to Grand Master of the Ordo Xenos Helican.

 

Now, we are told that the King in Yellow has been both to Sortiarius, Sicarus and the Black Library. He's supposedly looking for the Emperor's True Name - which might serve many uses, but is undoubtedly a threat beyond anything in the wrong hands. However, it could also serve to unshackle him from the Throne. We don't know the King's motives yet.

We do, however, know that he's pretty much at war with all the remaining traitor Legions.

 

And considering that Chase's book is entirely the name of Valdor, including all known appendices Custodians earn throughout their service, we can be pretty damn sure that the Cognitae were no more than tools to him, and were looking for a way to turn the power dynamics back around. But that Chase could ever have learned the whole name is going to be a big deal, I believe. There's more here than meets the eye.

 

Now, we know that Lilean Chase used to be an Inquisitor and was said to be a Recongregator. THIS is important. Recongregators believe that the Imperium as it exists now is inherently corrupt and needs to be overthrown and redesigned from the ground. Part of their background is that they might plant damning evidence to lead the Imperium into upheaval, undermine ruling castes and topple systems. They're cunning and try to turn the Imperium on itself.

 

What better way to shake the Imperium to its foundations than to turn THE Custodian, the Emperor's favorite, the Captain-General, against the Inquisition - or rather, the other way around. This whole damn series is overgrown with manipulations by unknown powers, and I'd consider it a big laugh to Chase if she were to deflect Eisenhorn and Ravenor - two of her most dogged pursuers - right into an enemy of her own, whose loyalty questioned might even lead to much bigger suspicions within the Ordos about the Custodes back on Terra. Especially those that believe the Emperor might rise from his Throne one day.

 

And then we have the Horusians on the other side, who play right into the Dark King stuff from TEATD. While Moriana is introduced in that book at last, officially, I still don't put it beyond Dan to replace her with either Kat or Cyrene/Actae,

 

Quoting Lexicanum here for an easy summary:

 

Going further, their belief that a new avatar could be created to host the Emperor's soul and their hunt for Living Saints sounds awfully relevant to what's being done with the Graels (funny coincidence, Grael Noctua of the Sons of Horus serves as host to Tormageddon, aka daemon-Torgaddon. His ascension to Mournival was first discussed in Abnett's Little Horus short, but the possession occured in Vengeful Spirit by McNeill. Then again, Tormageddon was made up by Abnett in Know No Fear!).

 

Then we have Promeus, who was Lemuel Gaumon, and supposedly was one of the original Resurrectionists and fought Moriana over how to bring the Emperor back. We know he's also got a history with Magnus and Ahriman, and also hosted a Shard of Magnus for a bit.

 

Tl;dr There's SO MUCH MORE than meets the eye in this overarching series that Abnett might consider or have considered in his twists.

 

We know he had to get lore guru permission to do what he did, and a lot of legwork was done on specific characters and arcs in the meantime, both by him and other authors (like Wraight). We've been misdirected multiple times throughout Eisenhorn, Ravenor and Bequin, and the Heresy too, and I don't believe this will stop here at the end of Penitent and TEATD Vol.1. Pandaemonium has so much to draw on, and we can be sure that the extreme delays between installments of the Bequin trilogy are in large part due to all this stuff that's happening on the Heresy side too, including Valdor's Primarchs novel.

 

It'll be interesting as all hell to go back after Pandaemonium happens (probably not before late 2024 at the earliest, but likely no sooner than 2025 even if Abnett wants to write it soon after the Siege wraps up) and pick up all the strands that were laid out in the past decade that we might not even have picked up on at all.

Excellent analysis as always. Without a doubt this will be far from straightforward. My (far less impressive)  two pence...

 

 

 

I have always maintained that The Yellow King is actually The Emperor, though not directly.

 

I still think that is possible even if Valdor IS The Yellow King because Valdor is IMO still doing the bidding of The Emperor. While not necessarily an avatar, he remains a tool/instrument to enact the will of The Emperor.

 

I am greatly influenced in my thinking by the first Draco book Inquisitor by Ian Watson. As old timers know, in that The Emp is still very much alive (if fractured and mad) and still using His power to influence what is happening in the Warp and realspace. 

 

I have always LOVED that concept and find it hard to let go (and it remains my head canon) EXCEPT...

 

As of Godblight it appears to have come back into current/real canon! 

 

If The Emp is still influencing and manipulating despite physically being confined to His chair...then why can’t he be providing orders (or esoteric influence) to Valdor?

 

To what end I do not know. But I have a feeling it ties into the Cicatrix Maleficanun (sp?), the psychic awakening and maybe something in the actions of both the antagonists and protagonists in the Bequin series will enable all these things to come together and...

 

Revive The Emperor (in time for the new edition of W40k).

 

I suspect what we will see in TEATD (last volume) is a scene between the “dying” Emp and Valdor where the Emp instructs him to enter the Warp and “prepare the way for my return” or some such (you know “build me an army worthy of Mordor” type vibe).
 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by DukeLeto69

[SkimaskMohawk]

Spoiler

19 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

And then we have the Horusians on the other side, who play right into the Dark King stuff from TEATD. While Moriana is introduced in that book at last, officially, I still don't put it beyond Dan to replace her with either Kat or Cyrene/Actae,

I'm 100% behind this like I mentioned in the end and the death thread. Moriana is basically just a name in that book and the door is open for a little switcharoo with actae. Or maybe actae dominates her mind in the same way that was happening to Kat with the psychic link.

 

The horusian/using chaos as a weapon parallel is just too big.

 

[DarkChaplain]

1 hour ago, DukeLeto69 said:

Excellent analysis as always. Without a doubt this will be far from straightforward. My (far less impressive)  two pence...

 

  Hide contents

 

I suspect what we will see in TEATD (last volume) is a scene between the “dying” Emp and Valdor where the Emp instructs him to enter the Warp and “prepare the way for my return” or some such (you know “build me an army worthy of Mordor” type vibe).
 

 

 

Spoiler

I expect Valdor to have to in some way use the spear to stab the Emperor (or somebody else? Malcador?) so he gets hidden knowledge imparted.

 

Also: We're led to believe that the City of Dust is related to the webway, too. If we want to go full crazy full circle, and do some moonreaper-style wishlisting, BL could even go so far as to have Valdor re-enter the galactic stage of the Indomitus Era by way of Watchers of the Throne 3. We have a couple of people lost in the webway after all, including Custodes, as per The Dark City.

 

I'm not saying this will happen or that it's in any way likely or planned/considered - I'm just pointing out that the current framework of the fluff would allow for it. Between the whole Emperor-is-mad/fractured from Jaq Draco and Godblight, the Star Child being recanonized in Throne of Light and a potential rift (höhö) between Guilliman and the Emperor as he experienced him, and the whole Primarch-possession from Godblight (which is still the last we've seen of Guilliman in the current timeline, isn't it?), things are moving in such a big way, that Dan could do so much crazy stuff in Pandaemonium and it'd probably slot right into the developing setting's meta narrative.

 

Again, it'll be super interesting to go back after the fact and see a lot of the books since 8th in the context of both the finale of the Siege of Terra and Bequin. Things definitely point towards a more meta approach behind the scenes at BL.

 

[DukeLeto69]

33 minutes ago, DarkChaplain said:

 

  Hide contents

I expect Valdor to have to in some way use the spear to stab the Emperor (or somebody else? Malcador?) so he gets hidden knowledge imparted.

 

Also: We're led to believe that the City of Dust is related to the webway, too. If we want to go full crazy full circle, and do some moonreaper-style wishlisting, BL could even go so far as to have Valdor re-enter the galactic stage of the Indomitus Era by way of Watchers of the Throne 3. We have a couple of people lost in the webway after all, including Custodes, as per The Dark City.

 

I'm not saying this will happen or that it's in any way likely or planned/considered - I'm just pointing out that the current framework of the fluff would allow for it. Between the whole Emperor-is-mad/fractured from Jaq Draco and Godblight, the Star Child being recanonized in Throne of Light and a potential rift (höhö) between Guilliman and the Emperor as he experienced him, and the whole Primarch-possession from Godblight (which is still the last we've seen of Guilliman in the current timeline, isn't it?), things are moving in such a big way, that Dan could do so much crazy stuff in Pandaemonium and it'd probably slot right into the developing setting's meta narrative.

 

Again, it'll be super interesting to go back after the fact and see a lot of the books since 8th in the context of both the finale of the Siege of Terra and Bequin. Things definitely point towards a more meta approach behind the scenes at BL.

 

Suspect there is a frater on here that will spit out their coffee reading some of this because it wasn’t in William King’s fluff piece in White Dwarf over 20yrs ago!!!

[Nagashsnee]

39 minutes ago, DukeLeto69 said:

Suspect there is a frater on here that will spit out their coffee reading some of this because it wasn’t in William King’s fluff piece in White Dwarf over 20yrs ago!!!

This is just uncalled for and rude.

[DukeLeto69]

1 hour ago, Nagashsnee said:

This is just uncalled for and rude.

It’s a joke. Jeez lighten up!

[System Sound]

4 hours ago, DukeLeto69 said:

Suspect there is a frater on here that will spit out their coffee reading some of this because it wasn’t in William King’s fluff piece in White Dwarf over 20yrs ago!!!

r/40lore would go up in flames!

[Felix Antipodes]

One thing to keep in mind is that the creation of the great rift has been consistently shown to have increased the power of psychers across the galaxy.  And who is the greatest psycher of them all?