Speculation & spoilers regarding The Magos, Pariah etc

[Kobrakei]

Agreed, both Pariah and Penitent just feel like a side of 40k that you couldn't show any other way.

[caladancid]

Fixed spoiler tag.

 

What if the Cognitae were the good guys, or agents of good this whole time? Valdor knew what needed to be done and has been working against the Inquisition?

 

I mean, it’s plausible. The use of nulls, the Emperor’s true name maybe to set him free from the Throne.

 

My brain hurts. But it’s awesome.

Edited March 1, 2021 by caladancid

[Darkwrath121]

Fixed spoiler tag.

 

What if the Cognitae were the good guys, or agents of good this whole time? Valdor knew what needed to be done and has been working against the Inquisition?

 

I mean, it’s plausible. The use of nulls, the Emperor’s true name maybe to set him free from the Throne.

 

My brain hurts. But it’s awesome.

That's not far from my own guess.

 

The cognitae were a tool used by the Yellow King. A means to an end. While Abnett's writing as recently as Saturnine emphasises the godlike-incorruptibility of what the Custodes are, that doesn't mean that Valdor isn't doing what Eisenhorn and Ravenor are doing, and driving himself into a dark area out of utter dedication to the final goal. Though maybe without the risk of corruption (that we know of, this is weird territory), and more of a ruthless necessity.

 

The Cognitae he used were definitely not 'good', but he seemingly discarded of them as needed. If Guilliman, years later, ran into opposition from Imperial forces while simply returning and trying to restore the Imperium, Valdor would surely be aware that NO (40k era especially) Imperial faction (especially the Inquisition) could be trusted. Might as well use some anti-Imperial cult and string them along, right?

 

As for what's the deal with Comus and co. though... Uh. Guess we'll find out eventually!

Edited March 1, 2021 by Darkwrath121

[Bestkeptsecret]

Is it okay if I ask how much of lore on Chaos do pariah and penitent contain?

[Sandlemad]

I felt similar. The style Abnett adopts is delightful. And some genuinely beautiful prose. Certainly not what you expect in the average sci fi novel

It’s Abnett doing Dickens or, I think more to the point, doing Gormenghast. It does fade a bit about half way through Penitent but it’s so refreshing after what I found to be a sort of ugly sub-Whedon quippiness in the Ravenor books. Both are maybe examples of Abnett being more willing to switch it up in terms of style than other BL authors, even if it doesn’t always land.

[Nineswords]

Fixed spoiler tag.

 

What if the Cognitae were the good guys, or agents of good this whole time? Valdor knew what needed to be done and has been working against the Inquisition?

 

I mean, it’s plausible. The use of nulls, the Emperor’s true name maybe to set him free from the Throne.

 

My brain hurts. But it’s awesome.

This is one of my biggest questions. In The Magos, Eisenhorn refers to the Cognitae as a ‘shadow Inquisition’. One of the earliest facts established literally established in chapter 1 of Xenos is that the Inquisition is made up of differing theological factions.

 

Why not the Cognitae?

 

It is alluded to that the Cognitae are the world’s oldest secret society, implied that there are at several points in pre Unity Terra around (‘Temple-ers’).

 

What if antagonists like Molotch were radical elements of the Cognitae who happily employed Chaos against the Imperium and would have no compunction doing so? The Cognitae have always represented the occult, which most (even characters in universe) accept as face value as being ‘for Chaos’, which is not the same thing as being ‘against the Imperium’. Even in our own histories, the word ‘heretic’ is used to describe people who hold beliefs counter to whatever Abrahamic religion prevailed at the time.

 

The themes of being for the human race and the Imperial Truth are well documented. One of the more explicit examples that comes to mind is the ‘choice’ given to the twin primarchs in Legion: side with Chaos to defeat Chaos, echoed in microcosm in the theological spectrum of the Imperium, such as the Recongregators or Horusians. Prospero Burns also features an esoteric society at the Library, and more importantly, establishes that words and names are important concepts in the lore.

 

Notably the reveal of Molotoch and the plan for Enuncia takes place in a location where the roof features frescos of an earthly paradise... without the Emperor or indeed any stain of the Imperial Creed.

 

The clues are all there. It will take re-reads of at least 15 or 16 books to find the breadcrumbs and piece them together.

 

Edit: It just occurred to me in a golly gee moment that we may see more of the Alpha Legion in Pandemonium. I mean, there would be some elements of the 20th who would easily side with Valdor.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Nineswords

[caladancid]

 

At first I thought Comus was the big reveal.

 

The Eldar involvement is almost inexplicable to me.  What would Valdor be doing that makes them willing to bring that many craftworlds to the sector?  Does it have to do with the fighting that Beta sees in the City of Dust (that name!).  I mean, it must to some degree. 

 

For further proof that whatever Valdor is doing, it is part of the Emperor's original plan, see the consortium of Astartes who say they've been working together since Istvaan, presumably against the paradigm shift Valdor is trying to accomplish.

 

[Ishagu]

Just learned the identity of the Yellow King.

 

Holy Moly.

[Cleanse And Purify]

 

At first I thought Comus was the big reveal.

 

The Eldar involvement is almost inexplicable to me. What would Valdor be doing that makes them willing to bring that many craftworlds to the sector? Does it have to do with the fighting that Beta sees in the City of Dust (that name!). I mean, it must to some degree.

 

For further proof that whatever Valdor is doing, it is part of the Emperor's original plan, see the consortium of Astartes who say they've been working together since Istvaan, presumably against the paradigm shift Valdor is trying to accomplish.

 

The extimate space in which the City of Dust resides is, I suspect, the Imperial Webway. The Eldar want it dead because no one gets Webway but them, in their minds.

[caladancid]

 

 

At first I thought Comus was the big reveal.

 

The Eldar involvement is almost inexplicable to me. What would Valdor be doing that makes them willing to bring that many craftworlds to the sector? Does it have to do with the fighting that Beta sees in the City of Dust (that name!). I mean, it must to some degree.

 

For further proof that whatever Valdor is doing, it is part of the Emperor's original plan, see the consortium of Astartes who say they've been working together since Istvaan, presumably against the paradigm shift Valdor is trying to accomplish.

 

The extimate space in which the City of Dust resides is, I suspect, the Imperial Webway. The Eldar want it dead because no one gets Webway but them, in their minds.

Could be for sure. Maybe a very corrupted or changed version. It was surrounded by some form of Chaos after all.

[Nineswords]

 

 

At first I thought Comus was the big reveal.

 

The Eldar involvement is almost inexplicable to me. What would Valdor be doing that makes them willing to bring that many craftworlds to the sector? Does it have to do with the fighting that Beta sees in the City of Dust (that name!). I mean, it must to some degree.

 

For further proof that whatever Valdor is doing, it is part of the Emperor's original plan, see the consortium of Astartes who say they've been working together since Istvaan, presumably against the paradigm shift Valdor is trying to accomplish.

 

The extimate space in which the City of Dust resides is, I suspect, the Imperial Webway. The Eldar want it dead because no one gets Webway but them, in their minds.

That would make sense given the context. I have a feeling another big reveal for the end is another *Cough*Russ*Cough* primarch making an appearance.

[b1soul]

The identity of the YK is a real shocker to me. I made a few wishful speculations in that direction...but glad it turned out to be what BL was thinking. I'm a bit gob smacked to be honest.

 

b1soul, on 09 Dec 2020 - 10:05 PM, said:

 

Could be Dorn or Valdor maybe? Who knows at this point

b1soul, on 30 Dec 2020 - 1:33 PM, said:

 

The Valdor theory is definitely a long shot but I do like it. I'd like to think of it as...by now, he's a shadowy legend among even most of the Eyes of the Emperor and he'll only reveal himself when Russ does (which will be way down the line if ever). Perhaps Valdor recruits a select few Eyes of the Emperor and even mortals, like certain Lord Inquisitors, into his own network and a method to (maybe) contact Valdor for critical assistance is handed down to each successive custodes Captain-General, who doesn't know whether it would actually work. A lot to play around with here.

 

I'm obviously quite partial to bringing back primarchs and other ancient legends (with several key exceptions which should remain dead) a la a gradually progressing Ragnarok-style macro-narrative. Know that it's not for everyone, but it should be a money-maker for both BL and GW if they go that path at a measured pace.

Edited March 1, 2021 by b1soul

[Chapter Master Valrak]

A Subscriber posted a really cool point which I really want to believe.

 

He posted:

I think he's trying to get the emperors name to try and heal him, there's an Egyptian myth about the sun god Ra giving away his true name so that the goddess isis has enough power over him to heal him, I know that's a tenuous link but still

[Nineswords]

A Subscriber posted a really cool point which I really want to believe.

 

He posted:

 

I think he's trying to get the emperors name to try and heal him, there's an Egyptian myth about the sun god Ra giving away his true name so that the goddess isis has enough power over him to heal him, I know that's a tenuous link but still

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if this was the case. There are plenty of references to ancient myths and legends throughout the HH and 40k timeline.

[Kelborn]

Calling a faction split within the Imperium with the High Lords and Ecclisiarchy against the true loyalists.

 

Also

Russ joining Valdor for true Emperor service

count me in

 

 

So, as someone who never read any Abnett Inquisitor novel, would I need to catch up upon all or would the Bequin trilogy be sufficient enough?

[Sandlemad]

So, as someone who never read any Abnett Inquisitor novel, would I need to catch up upon all or would the Bequin trilogy be sufficient enough?

 

You'd miss a lot. You could follow the plot, broadly, though there would still be significant elements that might not make sense. Some are minor "Abnett-isms" like a generally more sophisticated tech level than in other 40k fiction - there's quite a lot of psyker-tech and anti-psyker tech that doesn't appear elsewhere all that much - but also larger elements, like the importance of the Glaw dynasty, or the Cognitae, or the graels, or enuncia (though that shows up in his heresy novels too). You could probably work around this somewhat by reading summaries of the previous books or trawling through lexicanum.

 

More significantly though the nuances of how the half dozen most prominent characters interact won't really be there for you. All three of Abnett's inquisition trilogies are very character-focused series and we're talking about multiple books' worth of changing relationships. Even in Penitent there's a persistent thread of how different Eisenhorn is with his comrades since the events of The Magos, which might not be apparent to someone who hasn't read it. It's not all that deep really but seeing e.g. Harlon Nayl and Patience Kys interact in Penitent without having read the previous books would not be the same.

[Nineswords]

Calling a faction split within the Imperium with the High Lords and Ecclisiarchy against the true loyalists.

 

Also

Russ joining Valdor for true Emperor service

count me in

 

 

So, as someone who never read any Abnett Inquisitor novel, would I need to catch up upon all or would the Bequin trilogy be sufficient enough?

Honestly, I envy you for being able to experience them for the first time. I’ve read these books over a dozen times because they are just fantastic books. Completely recommend starting with the Eisenhorn series and going onto Ravenor. The Magos collages all of the shorts and it is pretty much a direct prequel to Pariah and Penitent. They are still the gold standard for 40k for me and anyone even remotely interested in 40k I stay start with Xenos. It’s an excellent standalone novel and gateway into the madness of 40k

Edited March 1, 2021 by Nineswords

[Sandlemad]

RE: that big thing that everyone has in spoiler tags:

It's worth remembering the first lines of Penitent:

 

 

“Names, as we will see, are infinitely untrustworthy, yet infinitely important. I had become very sensitive to the distinction between what something is called and what it actually is.”

Not saying that necessarily applies here but... y'know.

 

Otherwise, if this really is Valdor, it's clear that it's a lot bigger than building for a coup. It's framed in a much more 'cosmic' way than what we've seen in for example the 'Watchers of the Throne' books. With the caveat that it's first impressions, we're talking about a secret institution made up of (thousands of?) blank clones based out of an impossibly huge city/fortress in an extimate space (speculated to be the imperial webway?), squadrons of gilded warships, 'flights of angels', lost astartes like Comus, enuncia-speaking eudaemonic/'good daemon' aetheric entities in the form of an army of graels. Some parts of that could well be Bequin not quite grokking what she was seeing of course, and some may not be entirely real, but it's a Thing.

 

In terms of goals, I think I get it? Valdor, if it really is him, seeking to kill the Emperor. Maybe it's a vaguely Star Child-ish aim, maybe it's something to do with carrying on the Emperor's goals of ushering humankind into a new existence as a truly psychic species via the graels (which are increasingly primarch-adjacent in concept), maybe it's simply Valdor trying to put his old friend and master out of his misery.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Sandlemad

[Xin Ceithan]

I just finished it.  Oh boy! 
 

 Y head is still spinning. There are so many things in this, so many clever little things .... the yellow king reveal is almost just icing on he cake. Definitely worth the wait.

[Dosjetka]

So, as someone who never read any Abnett Inquisitor novel, would I need to catch up upon all or would the Bequin trilogy be sufficient enough?

I highly recommend reading the Eisenhorn and Ravenor trilogies. As Sandlemad mentioned, you'll be able to figure some stuff out if you don't, but the books are so good that not reading them would be borderline criminal.

[DarkChaplain]

The real question would be

What has Valdor seen through the Apollonian Spear? Remember, he even sees the "lives" and flaws of daemons when he slays them. Valdor has seen thousands upon thousands of lives, truths and secrets through the spear. Who knows what he has been made aware of over the millennia? In hindsight, it seems like this kind of reveal is what the whole Metaphysical Blades stuff has been about all along, considering how long it's been since Abnett got the go-ahead on it.

 

Whether I like this route and the revelations will highly depend on what Pandaemonium does with all of this information. I still wish it hadn't involved stuff from the Heresy that we readers are aware of, but it really comes down to the payoff. At least Bequin, as the point of view character, ensures that the subject has to be approached closer to ground level than that of a Heresy veteran who knows all about the Ten Thousand we were told in the books, for example. It's still a mystery to her, and thus to us through her narration.

[Astartes Consul]

Just finished and I think this is possibly the best Abnett (and Black Library) book so far.

 

Lots of *thoughts* about it but at the moment I'm just going to sit and let it all wash over me... 

[Triszin]

Calling a faction split within the Imperium with the High Lords and Ecclisiarchy against the true loyalists.

 

Also

Russ joining Valdor for true Emperor service

count me in

 

 

So, as someone who never read any Abnett Inquisitor novel, would I need to catch up upon all or would the Bequin trilogy be sufficient enough?

 

 

A Subscriber posted a really cool point which I really want to believe.

 

He posted:

 

I think he's trying to get the emperors name to try and heal him, there's an Egyptian myth about the sun god Ra giving away his true name so that the goddess isis has enough power over him to heal him, I know that's a tenuous link but still

so...

 

My wish list for how Russ rejoins 40k must now happen.

Russ is searching for the Tree of Life ( eldar god isha ).

Valdor is searching for the true name of the emperor to heal him.

 

Lets entwine their journeys, since their blades are twins.

 

"waking/healing" the emps is a 2 part of mythical juju juice.

You need his true name, and you need the god of healing.

 

You know what you might just need to break into Nurgles Garden and free the Eldar god of isha?

 

A. A ton of Eldar.

B. some of the best imperium fighters ( valdor / Russ and co )

C. a Army of blanks to negate as much nurgle disease as possible

 

D. the biggest one. Opportunity

- Dark imperium 3, Mort, Nurgle and Deeath guard are all focused on trying to kill Robby G.

- Mort and DG are winning.

- Thats when the raids to end all raids starts.

- Valdor, Russ, Eldar, And their armies all invade the garden of Nurgle, to free a God, to save Humanity.

 

 

 

[b1soul]

@ Sandlemad

 

Yes, definitely...for all we know,

 

Valdor's identity might be a front used by Omegon to manipulate a number of Imperial and non-Imperial factions to further nebulous ends. Think Alpharius posing as Meduson.

 

...I think this would be a bit of a letdown to the Custodes fans out there, but if anyone has the balls to pull such an aggressive double-twist, would probably be Abnett

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Okay, so that's the King in Yellow. Now who's the Queen in Red?