New Knight Castellan Revealed!

[LucidNinja]

I would be very surprised if a knight could take 2 relics and would think it dumb if it can.

I love how most of these relics are good, makes it a hard choice as to which to take. Pretty much every type of knight has 1 good choice.

[PiñaColada]

 

Mkay, well, house hawkshroud with relic avenger on my crusader, then I will use two of my CPs to make my gallant a character with a warlord trait to boost his output and the relic gauntlet with another CP. Then I will have 4 CP left.

Other codices have a restriction that a model may not carry more than one Relic. Does anyone know if this applies to Knights?

I haven't seen anything to indicate that knights would be different. I honestly hope that restriction still applies, it could be pretty silly otherwise. It would create so many weird combos that would be hard to balance..

[Clingy]

I’m left with the image of a giant Magpie Robot with a big sack slung over its shoulder marked ‘imperial swag’

 

Stomping along with various relics being strewn across the battlefield

 

Muahaha. But yeah seriously it has to be locked in at one per bot

[helterskelter]

Every other model in the game is one relic per model, no reason the knights would be any different

[Marshal Reinhard]

Every other model in the game is one relic per model, no reason the knights would be any different

 

I think there's a potential argument that we have a per model point cost that far exceeds other armies on average so that we potentially have less chances to take relics if limited to one per model. It's really reaching though, so I agree it's not really valid, but it could be made I suppose :P

[Stray]

Right, I has read all the things. So for those wondering (I think between us, we've pretty much worked it out anyway now) here are the direct words from the book of codexs, re: Lances, Traditions, and all that good stuff:

 

'Imperial Knights Detachments (excluding Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachments) gain the following abilities:

 

Knight Lances

If your army is battle-forged, select one model in each Imperial Knight Super-Heavy Detachment in your army. That model gains the Character keyword. However, the command benefit (command points) of each IK SHD is changed to none, unless it contains any combination of at least three Questorus Class, and/or Dominus Class units (Note from Stray - Cerastus and Acastus are implied here also, and have specifically been stated as 'should have been included, will be FAQ'd rapidly').

 

Household Traditions

If your army is battle forged, all units in an IK, SHD, other than Freeblade units, must be from the same household but will all gain a Household Tradition with the exception of the Freeblade units. The Household Tradition gained depends upon the household they are drawn from.

If you have chosen a QUESTOR IMPERIALIS or QUESTOR MECHANICUS household, that does not have a household tradition, you may choose the tradition (you can't make up your own - Stray) that best describes the character and fighting style of your Knightly House.

[LucidNinja]

Thank you stray,

My super heavy aux can use the strat to make him a character and then another to take a relic. But won't have a house trait.

Now I'm assuming that the imperialis or mechanicum choices is made before this part...

[DeStinyFiSh]

Just to make sure I got it right if I want to combine IKs with AdMech:

 

If I spend CPs, I can have up to 3 Knights with 1 WLT and 1 Relic each (1 "natural", 2 more via Stratagems).

Or I can choose my Tech Priest to be the "natural" Warlord, plus 2 Knights can have up to 1 Relic and 1 Stratagem each (thanks to Stratagems).

 

Or can I take the Priest as Warlord and give 3 Knights a Relic (1 for free, 2 for Stratagem)? I thought the free Relic has to come from the same book as the Warlord, but I am not 100% sure

[Charlo]

So the original thought of 3 Armiger CP generator SHD are certainly dead. BUT we do get Household traits!

 

No drama, not as bad as expected.

[Stray]

Just to make sure I got it right if I want to combine IKs with AdMech:

 

If I spend CPs, I can have up to 3 Knights with 1 WLT and 1 Relic each (1 "natural", 2 more via Stratagems).

Or I can choose my Tech Priest to be the "natural" Warlord, plus 2 Knights can have up to 1 Relic and 1 Stratagem each (thanks to Stratagems).

 

Or can I take the Priest as Warlord and give 3 Knights a Relic (1 for free, 2 for Stratagem)? I thought the free Relic has to come from the same book as the Warlord, but I am not 100% sure

 

As long as your Knights are in their own detachment, and not in one with your Ad Mech, yes, you're good to go. Otherwise you can only use the ad mech strats on them, so no relics etc :/

[Heliomanes]

Let's see if I got our options right.

Superheavy aux: You get to play a knight, and can use their stratagems - including stratagems to give him warlord traits and/or relics, but you don't get a Household Tradition.

Superheavy detachment with less than 3 big knights: You get a character knight, Household Tradition, and access to stratagems and relics - but no command points for the detachment.

Superheavy detachment with 3 big knights or more: As above, but with the normal amount of command points you'd get from a superheavy detachment.

[Stray]

 

Thank you stray,

My super heavy aux can use the strat to make him a character and then another to take a relic. But won't have a house trait.

Now I'm assuming that the imperialis or mechanicum choices is made before this part...

 

You're welcome. Thank Lysaer ('cuse spelling) too - he prompted me to look deeper and had many of the correct answers before I did in truth.

 

As far as Aux SHD go... hmm. I'm not sure. I'll try and find out for certain, but I think there remains a query over whether you can use a Strat on an Aux detachment. You certainly can on the ordinary 3x knight ones, but we may as well cross the t's and dot the i's and find out 100% on the aux.

 

I will return with an answer if I can find one buddy o7

 

Let's see if I got our options right.

 

Superheavy aux: You get to play a knight, and can use their stratagems - including stratagems to give him warlord traits and/or relics, but you don't get a Household Tradition.

 

Think so, yes. Possibility exists of there being an issue with strats and aux detachments. Need a clear ruling on this.

 

Superheavy detachment with less than 3 big knights: You get a character knight, Household Tradition, and access to stratagems and relics - but no command points for the detachment.

 

Yes - 100% correct.

 

Superheavy detachment with 3 big knights or more: As above, but with the normal amount of command points you'd get from a superheavy detachment.

 

Right again buddy!

 

 

Ok. FYI folks, the Super Heavy Aux detachment is indeed fine for Strat use. So you make them a character etc as per normal if you wish.

 

Strats specifically only do not apply to Aux Support Detachments, and this wording is used on a Codex by Codex basis. Our codex specifically states that strats can be used on any Imperial Knights detachments, thus the SH Aux detachment is legal for strats.

 

You do NOT however, get a House Tradition if you're using a SH aux detachment.

 

No mixed detachments (AdMech with a Knight LoW choice for example) would allow the use of IK strats.

[LucidNinja]

The reason I have for strats to be OK for aux LoW detachment is because other codex say any detachment except aux supplement detachment can use these strats. Might be different for knights but I hope not

 

Edit: Ninja

[Stray]

The reason I have for strats to be OK for aux LoW detachment is because other codex say any detachment except aux supplement detachment can use these strats. Might be different for knights but I hope not

 

It is technically different for Knights - at least in terms of wording - but in practice it amounts to much the same. See post above which hopefully will make more sense :P

 

TL:DR though, yeah, you're fine using strats on the Aux detachment.

[helterskelter]

Each knight army needs 4 Big knights minimum to be wholly effective then

[LucidNinja]

Think I have 1 more question just for complete clarification, even if a knight doesn't get the benefit of a house trait does it get access to the strats and relics of a house?

Thanks again Stray

[Stray]

Each knight army needs 4 Big knights minimum to be wholly effective then

 

Hmm.

 

Maybe. It depends what you mean by 'effective'.  I mean you can take 3 IK's in one detachment, and then 3-9 Armigers and still get all benefits apart from the CP for the Armiger unit.

Think I have 1 more question just for complete clarification, even if a knight doesn't get the benefit of a house trait does it get access to the strats and relics of a house?

Thanks again Stray

 

RAW, yes. As long as you gave it the right Household Keyword - nothing restricts that, so though weird, you're not prevented from giving it anything relic wise.

 

It's a bit of an odd loophole though, so maybe they'll FAQ something in one direction or the other down the line? For now, you're fine though.

[helterskelter]

 

 

Each knight army needs 4 Big knights minimum to be wholly effective then

Hmm.

 

Maybe. It depends what you mean by 'effective'. I mean you can take 3 IK's in one detachment, and then 3-9 Armigers and still get all benefits apart from the CP for the Armiger unit.

Think I have 1 more question just for complete clarification, even if a knight doesn't get the benefit of a house trait does it get access to the strats and relics of a house?

Thanks again Stray

RAW, yes. As long as you gave it the right Household Keyword - nothing restricts that, so though weird, you're not prevented from giving it anything relic wise.

So to get a lance, with the cps and traditions we need 3 big knights.

To get traditions on the second detachment we need at least one more big knight?

[Stray]

 

 

Each knight army needs 4 Big knights minimum to be wholly effective then

Hmm.

 

Maybe. It depends what you mean by 'effective'. I mean you can take 3 IK's in one detachment, and then 3-9 Armigers and still get all benefits apart from the CP for the Armiger unit.

Think I have 1 more question just for complete clarification, even if a knight doesn't get the benefit of a house trait does it get access to the strats and relics of a house?

Thanks again Stray

RAW, yes. As long as you gave it the right Household Keyword - nothing restricts that, so though weird, you're not prevented from giving it anything relic wise.

So to get a lance, with the cps and traditions we need 3 big knights.

To get traditions on the second detachment we need at least one more big knight?

 

 

No. You get traditions etc just fine even if you just have Armigers. The only exceptions are Freeblades. They can never have a tradition, but they don't prevent anything else having them. And Superheavy Aux detachments - these never get traditions either (weird, but there we go).

 

So you can have a SHD detachment of just Armigers, no big Knights, and you still get Traditions.

[helterskelter]

Awesome, clarified for me now that is. Time for a planning.

[Stray]

If anyone would like to read the codex further for themselves, Geoff Robinson has uploaded a pretty decent codex review and walkthrough today, in which he reads out everything interesting word for word, AND shows the pages (which can then be read via the ever useful paws (ha! Cat joke!) button).

 

Linky:

 

[Karhedron]

Superheavy aux: You get to play a knight, and can use their stratagems - including stratagems to give him warlord traits and/or relics, but you don't get a Household Tradition.

If you are going this route, would it be better to take a Freeblade? You still don't get the traditions but instead you get the option to choose some benefits if you wish.

[Stray]

 

Superheavy aux: You get to play a knight, and can use their stratagems - including stratagems to give him warlord traits and/or relics, but you don't get a Household Tradition.

If you are going this route, would it be better to take a Freeblade? You still don't get the traditions but instead you get the option to choose some benefits if you wish.

 

 

It could be. Obviously your selection of things like Warlord Traits and Relics would be restricted if you went that route, but 'tis for you to decide where you find the most value there.

[Vel'Cona]

 

If you are going this route, would it be better to take a Freeblade? You still don't get the traditions but instead you get the option to choose some benefits if you wish.

 

It could be. Obviously your selection of things like Warlord Traits and Relics would be restricted if you went that route, but 'tis for you to decide where you find the most value there.

 

There's also the downside that your potential buffs come with the immense drawback of Burdens.  Whether this is acceptable for you depends on whether you're willing to cope with your Knight going stupid 35% of the time.  I'll admit, I'm not sure if that's definitive numbers but Ld8 seems to indicate as much.

[DeStinyFiSh]

Thanks for explaining everything so patiently Stray.

 

I realy expect a bigger FAQ within the next 2 or 3 weeks, this ruling on Detachments is something completely new in this edition and leaves quite a bit of confusion within the community.