New Knight Castellan Revealed!

[Karhedron]

So for those of you who don't want to run guard but want CP I present the DIY AoS 2 buy CP with points guard battalion.

 

2 tempestus primes 3 tempestus Scion squads. Reserve them and dont bring them on, they will automatically count as destroyed at the end of battle round 3.

 

This nets you 5CP for 232 points without needing to buy any guard models. You will however need to have at least 5 drops in your army.

This is true BUT......

 

If you don't run them on the table, you cannot benefit from Grand Stratagist and/or Kurov's Aquila (one of the key reasons for choosing IG as your battery). If you are just looking for a cheap Battalion for 5 CPs then almost any imperial Faction will do. You can run a Space Marine Battalion for just an extra 50 points if you feel the need and they are unlikely to go out of fashion.

 

While running an allied Battalion CP battery is a good idea, I would be inclined to spend a few more points to get models that are really useful to you. If you run IG, blow a few more points on a Manticore or two. If you run Marines, get a few squads of Intercessors as they are tough to dig out of cover your opponent's big guns are likely to be distracted by your giant mechs. If you run Scions then kit them out with plasma so they can drop in and knock out targets out of your Knights' LOS.

 

I run BAs and I think they could be fun alongside Knights. The idea of charging Captain Smash and a Galant wrecking-ball on the same turn makes my cogitators feel strangely warm and fuzzy.

[Mushkilla]

The point in that battalion is you don't actually need the models. It's a way of buying CP. If you actually want to run models then yes there are much better options. :P

 

Basically if thematically you want to run pure knights, but need CP. You can run a Scion batallion that never shows up.

[sneakybamsen]

I'm still hoping for Armigers to be fixed CP wise, it could be a rule addition to the lance, that if you have a lance containing 3 big knights, you can have another lance containing (both big knights and) armigers, where they still generate CP and get household traditions and all. That makes it possible to play pure knights CP-wise, while not enabling other lists to bring 522 points of mobile nasty-dakka granting 3 CP. At laest not without a 1062 point buy-in for 3 gallants. Simple fix imho.

 

That said, if armigers get the CP-finger, I'd run DA besides my knights. Been pondering if it would be possible to go with darkshroud, talonmaster, sammael in sableclaw, dark talon and other things, but that is too many points, and if not in a battalion, it won't address the CP-issue. So devastators with plasma cannons, azrael, lieutenant, ancient and 3 scout squads spring to mind alongside a 3-knight lance. One being a warden, one being a gallant, the last one my Castigator. Think I'll run that as house raven, just to make sure I unload everything while advancing up three knights and going for that charge bomb with the gallant. It's 10 drops, so should have a decent shot at getting +1 to go first.

[Marshal Reinhard]

EDIT: pointless post

[brother_b]

I think they left off armigers as CP generators because of how powerful they may have felt  knights were going to be. Maybe it's some form of internal balancing of the codex.

 

When I mean power, I mean perceived, obviously not confirmed via game play/tournament wins. A knight army with lots of CP would be very scary. A knight army with controlled CP makes it less so.

 

There's always IG battalion spam though. Anyway, just some thoughts.

[jeffersonian000]

I think they left off armigers as CP generators because of how powerful they may have felt knights were going to be. Maybe it's some form of internal balancing of the codex.

 

When I mean power, I mean perceived, obviously not confirmed via game play/tournament wins. A knight army with lots of CP would be very scary. A knight army with controlled CP makes it less so.

 

There's always IG battalion spam though. Anyway, just some thoughts.

Except that for the cost of one Armiger, you can take a 5cp Guard Battery.

 

SJ

[THUNDERFISTS]

Yeah that idea really doesn't hold any water. For 3x the cost of a IG Battalion you get 3CP...yaaaay...

 

Unless the Super Heavy Detachment will increase it's CP in a FAQ, it's a silly decision to not count Armigers. Not to mention making the entire detachment/house traits/CP difference complicated. You practically need a flowchart just to see what you get in an army.

[brother_b]

Yes but it almost seems that they build armies in a vacuum and don't consider allies. That's more or less where my thoughts come from.

[Pvnisher]

So I legitimately had my credit card fraud protection call me after buying 3 of the big knights.

[Clingy]

That’s always funny when that happens. You feel so guilty about all of your purchases. “Erm yeah I actually did just spend that much money legitimately...it’s not fraud”

 

“Oh, sorry to bother you sir”

 

 

[OnboardG1]

Actually big, expensive 40k models would be a very good way to launder funds stolen from credit cards. Their resale value is 80% or higher and there are multiple unofficial vectors to sell them through. I guess banks would probably take note of this. Now I'm starting to wonder if any of the stuff I bought off of WG trading was acquired in this manner...

[brother_b]

In reading the codex, which is very nice and lavishly detailed, I was surprised to come across the following. It may have been posted already:

 

On page 87, no page numbers visible but in the photographs section Gods of War, the starting army example.

 

Warglaive, Dominus, Questor models shown.

 

"... this force not only provides an excellent start to an Imperial Knights army, but also fulfills the requirements of a Battle-Forged Super-heavy Detachment, meaning that it goes to battle with an impressive six Command Points to spend on Stratagems".

 

I'm guessing the CP nerf was extreme after-thought. Again, this may have been posted but I was surprised to read that.

[Charlo]

In reading the codex, which is very nice and lavishly detailed, I was surprised to come across the following. It may have been posted already:

 

On page 87, no page numbers visible but in the photographs section Gods of War, the starting army example.

 

Warglaive, Dominus, Questor models shown.

 

"... this force not only provides an excellent start to an Imperial Knights army, but also fulfills the requirements of a Battle-Forged Super-heavy Detachment, meaning that it goes to battle with an impressive six Command Points to spend on Stratagems".

 

I'm guessing the CP nerf was extreme after-thought. Again, this may have been posted but I was surprised to read that.

 

Aye it's been posted and is one of those inconsistencies that makes us all very confused!

 

Hoping the FAQ (which should appear in a couple weeks) clears everything up.

[Bluflash]

Same error on the next two pages as well. It shows a Questoris class night and 2 Armigers as a 3 cp SHD with another SHD.

[LegionOfMars]

My “fix” for the Armiger CP problem would be to require two or more armigers in a single unit. They only take one slot in a detachment and then get to act independently. Removes Armiger spam but still allows them to buff out lists.

[SydonianDragoon404]

Could also say you need at least one questoris class knight to get CP. Preceptor plus armigers getting cp would be fluffy IMO.

[Stray]

I have to agree. If you've a Questorus or above in the unit, you should get CP without question. Given the fact that with almost any other army, you could gain 5CP for fewer points spent, it's a little ridiculous that this is even an issue for Knights.

[Guest MistaGav]

Even if it was just one Questoris, Dominus or whatever and then 2 Armigers I'd be happy. That means it's small enough to slot into other forces as a nice ally detachment without feeling like the overall bulk.

Hoping this FAQ comes out soon, it feels like we are due it any day now.

[Stray]

Unfortunately that's quite possibly the reason you can't get CP. 

 

I'd prefer there were the CP restrictions present still where you were bringing Knights as an allied detachment, but not for standalone/primary IK armies really. Soup is... problematic right now in 40K. I'm not against taking allies, but I also think it should come with a cost.

[Clingy]

Maybe the answer is for kurov to start marketing his damned Aquila without discrimination. Just have the thing built into armies. chaos, dark eldar, nids, no problem. Oprah style. He’s an Aquila for you, for you, and you, and you, for EVERBODY!

 

problem solved

[LegionOfMars]

It should come with a cost but when you can sink 1000 points in a detachment it should be worth far more than 3 CP. the game should not punish players for taking point heavy killer robots and their sidekicks.

[Clingy]

They should in fairness scrap the detachments and start again. Make CP either objective based, turn based, or total points based(ie 1k =6CP, 1.5k =9CP, 2k =12CP)

 

Something like that.

 

I just plucked those values outta nowhere so they won’t be balanced but you get the idea

[Stray]

It should come with a cost but when you can sink 1000 points in a detachment it should be worth far more than 3 CP. the game should not punish players for taking point heavy killer robots and their sidekicks.

 

I quite agree. 100%.

 

The aspect I can't get behind are those fielding legitimate Knight armies being penalised (potentially), because of other armies wanting to take the most competitive IK units in their soup lists, while still gaining yet more CP. (Assuming this is the reason, or part thereof, why these bizarre restrictions exist).

 

Restrict away to combat soup (which is somewhat reasonable I feel, given how soup favours certain factions over others overwhelmingly), but don't punish legitimate armies to do so.

 

I'm fairly confident in saying that the vast majority of the IK players on this board - even the most competitive of us - would rather not feel like we are forced to take that AM battery detachment, just to scrape enough CP to get through a game. :/

 

Something is broken, and really does need rethinking in this aspect of the game.

[CaptainMarsh]

I'd just give armies that share keywords +1 CP for every shared keyword. Imperium, Imperial Knights, Questor Mechanicus, House Raven would give +4 CP on their own regardless of whether they qualified for the CP benefits of SHD under the Knight Lance restriction. It wouldn't stop Souping, but it would prevent it from feeling necessary for armies like Knights and Custodes to function. (Then again, I also think Custodes should also have the Talons of the Emperor keyword)

Anyway, maybe that should be kept in another topic so this remains on topic.

[LegionOfMars]

They should in fairness scrap the detachments and start again. Make CP either objective based, turn based, or total points based(ie 1k =6CP, 1.5k =9CP, 2k =12CP)

Something like that.

I just plucked those values outta nowhere so they won’t be balanced but you get the idea

This, or some variation of, I could get behind. Would prevent soups, would allow armies such as Custodes or harlequins to hold their own without footing multiple detachments.

 

I’d still keep detachments though so that they can benefit from different forgeworld dogmas or other army equivalents.