Greater Good Today

[Claws and Effect]

Also it's a bit of cognitive dissonance to say that the glitches of the AI would be a hinderance, so the slaved arms are better, and then to turn around and try and use the AI as a benefit in the very next point.

Not a cognitive dissonance at all. I'm just not looking at this in the black and white, mutually exclusive way you seem to be.

 

When the secondary arms are slaved to the primaries it reduces the potential for glitches to hinder combat effectiveness.

 

If you un-synch them you are accepting the possibility of the secondary arms becoming less efficient in exchange for the ability to multitask.

 

It's a bit like taking the wheel yourself in a self driving car.

[Bryan Blaire]

Exactly - 2 isn't really a great benefit at that point. It's not going to do it's job that well, much like multitasking.

 

Chances are though, we won't actually see rules to reflect this loss of efficiency, if that's actually GW's explanation.

 

Still doesn't deal with the actual physical issues that make the real design flaw in the whole thing.

[Claws and Effect]

Exactly - 2 isn't really a great benefit at that point. It's not going to do it's job that well, much like multitasking.

 

Chances are though, we won't actually see rules to reflect this loss of efficiency, if that's actually GW's explanation.

 

Still doesn't deal with the actual physical issues that make the real design flaw in the whole thing.

I think when designing miniatures the GW team only asks "Is this plausible?" rather than going in depth on exactly how it would function. And they've done a much better job of it lately than in years past.

 

I can totally see your point about the secondary weapon arms not being able to point directly forward at the same time.

 

But at the same time what I've read about her very mobile fighting style suggests that maybe they don't need to. Either she splits her fire between multiple targets or she can make minute adjustments in the air to bring the guns to bear one after the other. And maybe she's good enough that the inability to fire both guns at the same target simultaneously doesn't hinder her like it would a lesser warrior.

 

I have to imagine that at this point in her career she's experienced enough that the Earth Caste will listen to her input on the design of her personal battlesuit. Maybe she flat out told them "Give me the ability to multitask without losing firepower", and the 4 armed suit design was the best they could do to accommodate her request.

 

I don't wait for GW to explain everything for me, because they're never going to adequately address every question I have. So I take what I know of a character or faction and apply it to a model design so it makes it at least plausible.

[Bryan Blaire]

If the idea is "Oh that design flaw is okay, I can work around it" said from a Commander to the Earth Caste is a valid representation of the Tau, I think you and I see the Tau very differently, Claws and Effect. "Acceptable design flaw" isn't something that would be in their lexicon, IMO.

 

There has been nothing suggested that makes the current set up okay, while very minor tweaks would see the entire physics issue corrected.

[Panzer]

 

Exactly - 2 isn't really a great benefit at that point. It's not going to do it's job that well, much like multitasking.

Chances are though, we won't actually see rules to reflect this loss of efficiency, if that's actually GW's explanation.

Still doesn't deal with the actual physical issues that make the real design flaw in the whole thing.

I think when designing miniatures the GW team only asks "Is this plausible?" rather than going in depth on exactly how it would function. And they've done a much better job of it lately than in years past.

I'm actually going to disagree there. I feel the design team often really doesn't ask themselves if something is plausible.

Like the claws on Shrikes feet (too small and not well positioned to have any real use) or the way the 4 armed guys of the AoS Ossiarch Bonereapers wield their weapons (both arms on the same side of the body gripping the weapon which drastically reduces the range of movement and force behind each swing) etc.

Instead it seems like they have an idea of something that could be cool and then wing it hoping it turns out good.

[Happy-inquisitor]

If the idea is "Oh that design flaw is okay, I can work around it" said from a Commander to the Earth Caste is a valid representation of the Tau, I think you and I see the Tau very differently, Claws and Effect. "Acceptable design flaw" isn't something that would be in their lexicon, IMO.

 

There has been nothing suggested that makes the current set up okay, while very minor tweaks would see the entire physics issue corrected.

 

Would it make you feel better if we called it "acceptable engineering compromise" based on engineering which is never fully explained so we do not really know why they are having to make a compromise?

 

Or just wait for some more fiction when one of the BL authors will attempt to furiously rationalise the design into making some sort of sense?

 

I like that in a rather goofy fictional world the T'au are very often the least goofy/silly faction but that does not mean I am too upset when something does not look well engineered to my eye. 40K is fundamentally silly, anything that looks more sensible than the other factions is sensible enough for T'au to my eyes.

[Emicus]

Quad arms is brilliant. Hope it translates to other updated suits

[Claws and Effect]

If the idea is "Oh that design flaw is okay, I can work around it" said from a Commander to the Earth Caste is a valid representation of the Tau, I think you and I see the Tau very differently, Claws and Effect. "Acceptable design flaw" isn't something that would be in their lexicon, IMO.

 

There has been nothing suggested that makes the current set up okay, while very minor tweaks would see the entire physics issue corrected.

If "acceptable design flaw" wasn't in their lexicon, then overcharging a Nova Reactor wouldn't damage a Riptide.

 

Besides, if her armor is a prototype it solves every issue you have.

 

Prototypes very often have design flaws and engineering compromises that are noted and then corrected in the subsequent production model.

 

Perhaps Shadowsun's field test will show that it needs some tweaks before it is put into mass production.

 

I'm sure one thing we can agree on with the Tau is that they extensively field test every piece of equipment before putting it into production.

[Bryan Blaire]

I’m not sure the overcharging isn’t doing exactly what they intend to do - that’s not a design flaw, that’s something they accept to get it to push beyond intended boundaries.

 

This is one set of arms specifically physically impeding another set of arms supposedly designed to work better. They don’t do that. Again, this is a stupidly simple engineering issue, which means a bad design - something that should have been corrected by simple design adjustment. The problem is easily solved by simply widening the rear arm mounts, making the front arms smaller, or adding an additional joint to the rear arm.

 

The model doesn’t even seem to 100% reflect the engineering drawings showing how Shadowsun sits in the suit, because looking at those drawings, the rear arms appear to be intended to be about 5% or so larger, which does not necessarily provide the clearance that would be required for full movement of the arm, but the model doesn’t even appear to have that in it - the arms appear to be exactly the same size, which actually makes the problem worse.

 

If you don’t think it’s an issue, fine, but I very much do and it isn’t something that’s excusable to me, hence my comment that if Shadowsun is usable by Farsight armies, the very first thing I will be doing while building the model is removing those front arms and putting smaller ones on, or putting an extra join lt in the rear arms. I may also look at whether the secondary weapon systems shouldn’t instead be located on the primary arms, so they don’t seem so stupidly redundant if I can’t get either of the previous solutions to work. The one thing I won’t be doing is accepting the model as is.

[Panzer]

Something like the Nova reactor which is an entirely new technology requires a lot more work to fix than something like having the shoulders of the second pair of arms a bit further to the outside (basically as if a bigger person would hug a smaller person). This is really a very easily avoidable design flaw that shouldn't require actual field testing.

 

However while it's true that's a dumb thing it's not the main issue I have. It just really bugs me that there are two pair of arms that don the exact same thing instead of actually utilising having a second pair so you could do different things with them. That's entirely a posing problem of the model that would still exist even if there were a good explanation for it.

[Triszin]

So, the pulse pistol, might actually be the flecette launcher?

[Panzer]

So, the pulse pistol, might actually be the flecette launcher?

 

I'm sure the Pulse pistol is really just a Pulse pistol lol

The Flechette Launcher is most likely an option you can take instead of the Light Missile Pod.

[Triszin]

 

So, the pulse pistol, might actually be the flecette launcher?

 

I'm sure the Pulse pistol is really just a Pulse pistol lol

The Flechette Launcher is most likely an option you can take instead of the Light Missile Pod.

 

your right, I was looking at the model more.

 

x1 flechette

x1 LMP

x1 pulse pistol

x2 fusions

 

flechette

 

LMP

 

 

[Archaeinox]

Next Monday GW will probably post a short story .pdf called Beyond the Startide Nexus. In it, the Tau review footage from an interstellar drone showing Death Guard. The writer paints a fantastic picture and manages to make a bunch of Tau watching drone footage interesting and the vibe kind of reminds me of the hive scene from Aliens where you watch horrors unfolding on camera.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Triszin]

O.o

 

So it's gonna be Tau v deathgaurd?

[Archaeinox]

Here's some quotes from the .pdf

 

We have recently come under attack by a new foe. Our enemy seems to be of Gue’la nature, but nothing like we have encountered before.’ The face of the famous T’au Commander looked haunted for a moment. ‘They call themselves the Death Guard[...].'

 

‘These Gue’la cannot be reasoned or bargained with.’ Shadowsun’s voice returned. ‘Even less so than the rest of their kin. In the same way the Gue’la of the Imperium adhere to their Emperor, these monstrous aliens have turned to the savage worship of a being they call Nurg’hel.'

 

There is no other mention of another faction in this particular short story, so that I cannot come to any other conclusion other than it's a set up for Tau vs. DG. /shrug

Edited January 9, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Triszin]

I'm so excited!!!

 

 

We're getting the events of the startide Nexus nemar atol!!!!!!!!

 

 

____

 

The more that I think about it, I hope Kai's ends up an upgrade sprue to a ghostkeel like canis rex

Edited January 9, 2020 by Triszin

[Panzer]

The stories aren't always directly related to the PA events. Maybe the PA will be T'au vs DG, maybe T'au vs GSC, maybe T'au vs DG vs GSC. All we know for sure though is that this storie will be about T'au vs DG. ^^

[Panzer]

 

Here's some quotes from the .pdf

 

We have recently come under attack by a new foe. Our enemy seems to be of Gue’la nature, but nothing like we have encountered before.’ The face of the famous T’au Commander looked haunted for a moment. ‘They call themselves the Death Guard[...].'

 

‘These Gue’la cannot be reasoned or bargained with.’ Shadowsun’s voice returned. ‘Even less so than the rest of their kin. In the same way the Gue’la of the Imperium adhere to their Emperor, these monstrous aliens have turned to the savage worship of a being they call Nurg’hel.'

 

There is no other mention of another faction in this particular short story, so that I cannot come to any other conclusion other than it's a set up for Tau vs. DG. /shrug

 

 

Imagine how disturbing this race called "humans" must be for the T'au. Literally every group they have contact with worships some kind of entity. Either the Emperor or Nurgle or whatever else. And even the ones that converted to the Greater Good somehow managed to create a Greater Good entity now.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Panzer

[Claws and Effect]

 

 

 

Here's some quotes from the .pdf

 

We have recently come under attack by a new foe. Our enemy seems to be of Gue’la nature, but nothing like we have encountered before.’ The face of the famous T’au Commander looked haunted for a moment. ‘They call themselves the Death Guard[...].'

 

 

‘These Gue’la cannot be reasoned or bargained with.’ Shadowsun’s voice returned. ‘Even less so than the rest of their kin. In the same way the Gue’la of the Imperium adhere to their Emperor, these monstrous aliens have turned to the savage worship of a being they call Nurg’hel.'

 

There is no other mention of another faction in this particular short story, so that I cannot come to any other conclusion other than it's a set up for Tau vs. DG. /shrug

 

Imagine how disturbing this race called "humans" must be for the T'au. Literally every group they have contact with worships some kind of identity. Either the Emperor or Nurgle or whatever else. And even the ones that converted to the Greater Good somehow managed to create a Greater Good entity now. :D

Especially when you consider that the underlying cause of all of it is Psychic stuff that they don't believe actually exists.

 

It's actually hilarious that if you subtract the psychic stuff, the Tau are way closer to the Emperor's ideals than the Imperium currently is. If he were still around the he and the Tau could have negotiated some sort of peace. Which will never happen with the Imperium.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

Here's some quotes from the .pdf

 

We have recently come under attack by a new foe. Our enemy seems to be of Gue’la nature, but nothing like we have encountered before.’ The face of the famous T’au Commander looked haunted for a moment. ‘They call themselves the Death Guard[...].'

 

 

‘These Gue’la cannot be reasoned or bargained with.’ Shadowsun’s voice returned. ‘Even less so than the rest of their kin. In the same way the Gue’la of the Imperium adhere to their Emperor, these monstrous aliens have turned to the savage worship of a being they call Nurg’hel.'

 

There is no other mention of another faction in this particular short story, so that I cannot come to any other conclusion other than it's a set up for Tau vs. DG. /shrug

Imagine how disturbing this race called "humans" must be for the T'au. Literally every group they have contact with worships some kind of identity. Either the Emperor or Nurgle or whatever else. And even the ones that converted to the Greater Good somehow managed to create a Greater Good entity now.

Especially when you consider that the underlying cause of all of it is Psychic stuff that they don't believe actually exists.

 

It's actually hilarious that if you subtract the psychic stuff, the Tau are way closer to the Emperor's ideals than the Imperium currently is. If he were still around the he and the Tau could have negotiated some sort of peace. Which will never happen with the Imperium.

 

 

I'm not sure they don't believe psychic stuff exist. They partially use the warp to accelerate their ships as well. The just don't have a good grasp of it and it's a rather new thing they've learned about the universe which also gets kept away from them by the Ethereals. Hence why Farsight was so enraged by them.

 

Keep in mind that the Emperor's goal was not to have peace or whatever. His one and only goal was simply survival of mankind. Not even for them to have a nice and bright future. Simply survivel. That's how dire the future was he could see. So whether he would have negotiated with the T'au entirely depends on whether he could see them being part of that future or not. Perhaps they wouldn't be bad allies but having to explain to the rest of mankind that there's an exception to "suffer not the xenos to live" would have had bigger repercussions that ultimately would have doomed mankind after all.

 

Also I wouldn't say that it would never happen with the Imperium. Dante doesn't mind xenos as much as most of the rest of the Imperium. He only really hates the Tyranids. Guilliman would probably be open to negotiations as well since he's a tactical genious and already disagrees with a lot of what the Imperium does as is anyway. Depending on who there are members of the Inquisition that like to "use" uncommon allies. T'au are sometimes part of a Rogue Trader ship crew as well.

[Claws and Effect]

I was thinking more along the lines of the "You stay over there in the part of the galaxy we don't care about and we won't exterminate your species." variety of peace.

[Panzer]

I was thinking more along the lines of the "You stay over there in the part of the galaxy we don't care about and we won't exterminate your species." variety of peace.

 

I was assuming that. ^^

[INKS]

I can't see the Emperor letting the Tau live in peace. It's more than likely they would have been exterminated and would have been already for not the storms / inept of the imperium that allowed them to prosper for so long.

[Bryan Blaire]

I think it would have been the other way around - would the Tau leave humanity in peace? IMO, the honest answer to that is “No.” The Tau, while having auxiliary races, are still always at the top of those relationships, and it was humanity being subordinate to Xenos that was part of the Emperor’s hatred toward them. Humans playing 2nd fiddle, which is where the Tau try to put them, is not something the Emperor would accept.

 

Heck, the Tau May have been part of what the Emperor foresaw and went Nope-fish to...