Imperial Knights House Traits & Stratagems

[lhavoc]

How sure are we about this separate kit thing? Isn’t it really just an extra weapons spruce?

[Aothaine]

How sure are we about this separate kit thing? Isn’t it really just an extra weapons spruce?

 

It was confirmed on the facebook page. Though we only have about a week before you know for sure.

[PiñaColada]

 

House Vulker

 

This one is obviously pretty tempting for the crusaders and castellans but it makes that terrain piece worse in some ways. It's easy for the opponent to place some chaff between their valuable units and a stationary knight. This trait sort of needs you to move around a bit so that you ensure that those rerolls are used on the stuff that are your preferred targets 

[synthaside]

The trait and the " description"  are totally counterintuitive ... Vulker " fight from afar with cold logic ... .... but yet are forced to re-roll ones against that unit of guardsmen screening the vital targets.  

[PiñaColada]

The trait and the " description"  are totally counterintuitive ... Vulker " fight from afar with cold logic ... .... but yet are forced to re-roll ones against that unit of guardsmen screening the vital targets.  

Yeah, I noticed that as well. I think they mean that the closest enemy unit is still quite far away and that they focus fire on those. It's not a great match of fluff and rules though

[Stray]

 

The trait and the " description"  are totally counterintuitive ... Vulker " fight from afar with cold logic ... .... but yet are forced to re-roll ones against that unit of guardsmen screening the vital targets.  

Yeah, I noticed that as well. I think they mean that the closest enemy unit is still quite far away and that they focus fire on those. It's not a great match of fluff and rules though

 

 

Pretty lackluster bonus too. I do kinda wish they'd do something a bit more inspired with some of these, rather than recycling the same traits in different Codex's.

[Charlo]

As a general rule of thumb the weaker traits tend to have better Relic and Warlord trait, so we can but hope!

[PiñaColada]

As a general rule of thumb the weaker traits tend to have better Relic and Warlord trait, so we can but hope!

Sure, but let's not pretend that most codices has some duds as well. Not that I think this one is bad, just not the most inspired

[DeStinyFiSh]

 

 

 

 

The trait and the " description" are totally counterintuitive ... Vulker " fight from afar with cold logic ... .... but yet are forced to re-roll ones against that unit of guardsmen screening the vital targets.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. I think they mean that the closest enemy unit is still quite far away and that they focus fire on those. It's not a great match of fluff and rules though

Pretty lackluster bonus too. I do kinda wish they'd do something a bit more inspired with some of these, rather than recycling the same traits in different Codex's.

Well, since there are no generic special rules in 8th they have to copy rules. No one complained in 7th when Infiltrate, FnP or the likes have been used in multiple armys.

[Vel'Cona]

It's not bad but doesn't compare well to Griffith or Raven.  As many have pointed out, we're seeing these abilities in a microcosm, however, so as always "wait and see" is the name of the game.

[Aothaine]

It's not bad but doesn't compare well to Griffith or Raven.  As many have pointed out, we're seeing these abilities in a microcosm, however, so as always "wait and see" is the name of the game.

 

I would say that it depends entirely on the army your building tbh. This could be a fairly decent trait for a list that wants to get in close to their enemy but doesn't want the +1A... Really good for Meltas ya know?

[sneakybamsen]

 

It's not bad but doesn't compare well to Griffith or Raven.  As many have pointed out, we're seeing these abilities in a microcosm, however, so as always "wait and see" is the name of the game.

 

I would say that it depends entirely on the army your building tbh. This could be a fairly decent trait for a list that wants to get in close to their enemy but doesn't want the +1A... Really good for Meltas ya know?

 

 

Meltas aren't benefittin any more from this more than any other weapon, short or long range. It's closest target it works against, so if what you want to hit hard is getting screened, you won't get the benefit, unless you should said melta at the screen.

[DeStinyFiSh]

Well, sometimes people throw transports at you to “screen“ other things.

Ad Mech makes use of Dragoons to screen.

Or you are not up against screening units but a Carnifex or Cypot that wants to punch your shin.

Or a Flyer moved into your deployment zone and you want to melta it out of the sky...

I would not say it is useless for the meltas. You are not always playing against a gun line protected by Conscripts, at least I hope that is not all you have to play against.

[LucidNinja]

This has already had a few people ask gw how this works for targeting multiple things. Say your crusader aims it's melta at a tank that is being screened by guards men, you use the gat to get rid of the guards then shoot at the tank, does this let you reroll the melta?

[Mushkilla]

Yes. As you resolve each target separately. So as long as the guardsman are dead when the melta shoots making the tank the closest target you will get the benefits of the Vulket tradition.

[sneakybamsen]

Well, a unit fires it's weapons simultaneously, so imho that shouln't be possible. But that's just the way I play it.

 

That said, I'm not saying it's not a decent trait, I was just pointing out that it's not better with short ranged weaponry. Gettin some form of reroll is a good thing, no doubt.

[Mushkilla]

Well, a unit fires it's weapons simultaneously, so imho that shouln't be possible. But that's just the way I play it.

This doesn't matter as the rules specifically calls out when to check whether the unit is the closest, in this case it's when the shot is resolved . Core rules page 5 under section 3. choosing ranged weapons.

 

In either case, declare how you will split the shooting units shots before any dice are rolled, and resolve all shots against one target before moving onto the next.

...whenever you are resolving an attack with a ranged weapon...

So if when you resolve the melta shot, the tank is the closest, then you get the benefits of house Vulker.

[WarriorFish]

I think you mean declares it's shooting at once, but as Mushkilla says there's nothing stopping you declaring on multiple units and working your way away from the Knight, hoping to annihilate each as you go for that bonus.

 

I think it could be a pretty good bonus, as I'd expect a far amount of Knight killing to happen at closer quarters. Otherwise if you're intending to close on the enemy as mentioned it'd be a nice perk especially as Knights are pretty fast so you can reasonably expect to close to a desired target enough for it to be useful.

[Mushkilla]

Yeah the only downside I can see is if you want to charge your closest target to get extra movement and kill it for "free" in assault as there was nothing else in charge range.

[Stray]

I don't know whether this helps put the trait into more perspective;

 

If you imagine a multishot weapon like the Avenger, re-rolling ones to hit would allow you to kill a single extra GEQ on average. Obviously the Avenger actually heavily favours a trait like this because of the number of dice being rolled. It'd seem to get less impactful as you roll fewer dice.

 

When you take into consideration that it's closest unit only too...

[Mushkilla]

I don't know whether this helps put the trait into more perspective;

 

If you imagine a multishot weapon like the Avenger, re-rolling ones to hit would allow you to kill a single extra GEQ on average. Obviously the Avenger actually heavily favours a trait like this because of the number of dice being rolled. It'd seem to get less impactful as you roll fewer dice.

 

When you take into consideration that it's closest unit only too...

It does improve reliability though. Especially if we have a way to make knights BS2. You go from 1/6 chance of failure to 1/36, which is a big deal.

[Feral_80]

Vulker trait is a joke really.

 

I am not sure if it indirectly implies there will be no warlord trait, relic, or abilities that allows reroll 1s bubbles. It may or may not be, internal codex balance does not seem to be a thing anyway. I would hope all Knight warlords do allow that, but I am unsure.

[Stray]

I think had it been me, with the stipulation of 'closest unit only for trait to trigger' in place, I'd have allowed re-rolling of all hits. Here's why;

 

Taking the Avenger again, you now kill two extra GEQ on average. Hardly overpowered in our scenario, and remember we're using a weapon which favours the trait. Rolls of 1 AND 2 now trigger a re roll.

 

Profile degeneration is what makes this more interesting.

 

Re-rolling just ones means degeneration changes nothing positively. In fact, degeneration makes the trait less useful. Allowing a re-roll of any miss definitely helps Knights with a lowered BS out more, but what I like about it is that because of the previous closest unit stipulation, it deepens tactical play on the board.

 

A degenerated Knight fast becomes a 'slow' Knight. As your opponant, I know your trait only works vs the closest unit. That unit of Cultists I have? Yep, they're moving right there to become the closest unit, and you have to now think more tactically about how you will use your Knights behaviour to defuse this. You still can shoot at whatever you like, just as any Knight can, but you won't get that re-roll.. not without thought.

 

I think anything that encourages deeper plays on the table is typically a good thing.

[Stray]

 

I don't know whether this helps put the trait into more perspective;

 

If you imagine a multishot weapon like the Avenger, re-rolling ones to hit would allow you to kill a single extra GEQ on average. Obviously the Avenger actually heavily favours a trait like this because of the number of dice being rolled. It'd seem to get less impactful as you roll fewer dice.

 

When you take into consideration that it's closest unit only too...

It does improve reliability though. Especially if we have a way to make knights BS2. You go from 1/6 chance of failure to 1/36, which is a big deal.

 

 

Porphy the wonder Knight is BS 2. You're right, it would help it's rolls far more. But then with that Knight, you're unlikely to be targeting the closest unit. You want those guns to reach out and touch someone special :P

[sneakybamsen]

 

Well, a unit fires it's weapons simultaneously, so imho that shouln't be possible. But that's just the way I play it.

This doesn't matter as the rules specifically calls out when to check whether the unit is the closest, in this case it's when the shot is resolved . Core rules page 5 under section 3. choosing ranged weapons.

 

In either case, declare how you will split the shooting units shots before any dice are rolled, and resolve all shots against one target before moving onto the next.

...whenever you are resolving an attack with a ranged weapon...

So if when you resolve the melta shot, the tank is the closest, then you get the benefits of house Vulker.

 

 

Well, seems I've been doing it wrong, then. I guess that's what you get for trying to play with just a hint of realism ;)