Imperial Knights House Traits & Stratagems

[sneakybamsen]

 

Do your opponents really consider the wounds they may receive if they kill a knight in their midst? 

 

 

My last game against knights (2 warglaives and a crusader) my Black Knight unit ended up taking the last wound off his crusader in melee, it exploded and was game changing, as it was in the middle of his line. Did 6 wounds to Roboute, 6 to one armiger, 4 to the other, killed some primaris marines, wounded both a lieutenant and a librarian. I lost a couple of scout bikers and a black knight. It was insane. So if your opponent isn't careful, he can have half his army gone in a jiffy.

[Karhedron]

I don't think a 6+ FnP against mortal wounds is going to do a lot. It might spare you a wound or two every psychic phase but that is fairly weak in contrast to hawkshroud/raven/vulker in my opinion.

I agree. When you consider that Eldar have a trait that gives a 6+ FNP against all wounds, only allowing it vs MWs seems pretty weak.

[Frostglaive]

While the 6+ FnP against MW is rather weak, I personally feel like it's a bit more balanced than if a Knight were to have just a 6+ FnP in general. Yeah, still kind of weak being only on a 6, but a FnP is still a pretty powerful thing. I think that'd almost be a bit broken for a Knight to have, especially with the points reductions and all the new goodies we're going to get with them.

 

Just my two cents is all. I won't run that Household anyway. Hawkshroud will most likely be my go-to.

[PiñaColada]

While the 6+ FnP against MW is rather weak, I personally feel like it's a bit more balanced than if a Knight were to have just a 6+ FnP in general. Yeah, still kind of weak being only on a 6, but a FnP is still a pretty powerful thing. I think that'd almost be a bit broken for a Knight to have, especially with the points reductions and all the new goodies we're going to get with them.

 

Just my two cents is all. I won't run that Household anyway. Hawkshroud will most likely be my go-to.

Maybe a blanket 6+ FnP is too good but it could easily be a 5+ against mortal wounds, and I'd still call it fairly weak then but at least usuable.

[Aothaine]

While the 6+ FnP against MW is rather weak, I personally feel like it's a bit more balanced than if a Knight were to have just a 6+ FnP in general. Yeah, still kind of weak being only on a 6, but a FnP is still a pretty powerful thing. I think that'd almost be a bit broken for a Knight to have, especially with the points reductions and all the new goodies we're going to get with them.

 

Just my two cents is all. I won't run that Household anyway. Hawkshroud will most likely be my go-to.

 

I agree. Most knights have a 4++ or a 5++ anyway. The 6+ FNP against mortal wounds is good. but if these are all correct hawkshroud is what I'll be playing 100% of the time in competitive play. It means they need to take on avg 13 wounds off your knight before it degrades. This is 100% win.

[Stray]

 

While the 6+ FnP against MW is rather weak, I personally feel like it's a bit more balanced than if a Knight were to have just a 6+ FnP in general. Yeah, still kind of weak being only on a 6, but a FnP is still a pretty powerful thing. I think that'd almost be a bit broken for a Knight to have, especially with the points reductions and all the new goodies we're going to get with them.

 

Just my two cents is all. I won't run that Household anyway. Hawkshroud will most likely be my go-to.

Maybe a blanket 6+ FnP is too good but it could easily be a 5+ against mortal wounds, and I'd still call it fairly weak then but at least usuable.

 

 

It's tricky to balance which ever way you cut it really. I can see why they're being cautious...

 

A 6+ FNP on a single wound model is very different to a 6+ FNP on a model with 20+ wounds. Most of the time you won't even see the benefit on single wound infantry, but on a Knight? Law of averages means you just buffed that thing to effectively have several extra wounds.

 

I can't quite get my head around a what point it's worth having right now, but it's interesting...

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

 

While the 6+ FnP against MW is rather weak, I personally feel like it's a bit more balanced than if a Knight were to have just a 6+ FnP in general. Yeah, still kind of weak being only on a 6, but a FnP is still a pretty powerful thing. I think that'd almost be a bit broken for a Knight to have, especially with the points reductions and all the new goodies we're going to get with them.

 

Just my two cents is all. I won't run that Household anyway. Hawkshroud will most likely be my go-to.

Maybe a blanket 6+ FnP is too good but it could easily be a 5+ against mortal wounds, and I'd still call it fairly weak then but at least usuable.

 

 

It's tricky to balance which ever way you cut it really. I can see why they're being cautious...

 

A 6+ FNP on a single wound model is very different to a 6+ FNP on a model with 20+ wounds. Most of the time you won't even see the benefit on single wound infantry, but on a Knight? Law of averages means you just buffed that thing to effectively have several extra wounds.

 

I can't quite get my head around a what point it's worth having right now, but it's interesting...

 

 

4 extra for a 24 wound knight. But that's a bit of a misleading way to look at it. its on average 4 saved mortal wounds on an incoming 24. With no effect on other sources of damage.

[PiñaColada]

 

 

 

4 extra for a 24 wound knight. But that's a bit of a misleading way to look at it. its on average 4 saved mortal wounds on an incoming 24. With no effect on other sources of damage.

 

That's really the gist of it, it's probably more like 1 or 2 wounds on the knight throughout the entire game saved most likely. But if you think you'll get mileage out of it, beacuse you mostly play psychic heavy armies then that's great. It really should be a 5+ against mortal wounds though

[CommodusXIII]

It's false hope, is what it is.  Grimdark in dice form.

[Stray]

 

 

 

While the 6+ FnP against MW is rather weak, I personally feel like it's a bit more balanced than if a Knight were to have just a 6+ FnP in general. Yeah, still kind of weak being only on a 6, but a FnP is still a pretty powerful thing. I think that'd almost be a bit broken for a Knight to have, especially with the points reductions and all the new goodies we're going to get with them.

 

Just my two cents is all. I won't run that Household anyway. Hawkshroud will most likely be my go-to.

Maybe a blanket 6+ FnP is too good but it could easily be a 5+ against mortal wounds, and I'd still call it fairly weak then but at least usuable.

 

 

It's tricky to balance which ever way you cut it really. I can see why they're being cautious...

 

A 6+ FNP on a single wound model is very different to a 6+ FNP on a model with 20+ wounds. Most of the time you won't even see the benefit on single wound infantry, but on a Knight? Law of averages means you just buffed that thing to effectively have several extra wounds.

 

I can't quite get my head around a what point it's worth having right now, but it's interesting...

 

 

4 extra for a 24 wound knight. But that's a bit of a misleading way to look at it. its on average 4 saved mortal wounds on an incoming 24. With no effect on other sources of damage.

 

 

I getcha buddy, it's not really what I'm saying though.

 

I'm not so much commenting on how it stated to work, more the suggestions people have made to 'increase' it? I'm just pointing out that it's more complicated than it seems on a large model. Increase a 6+++ to a 5+++ (for example) and you've added like a third more wounds? 

 

On top of that, this applies to unsaved damage - so only stuff that should be suffering anyway (I appreciate obviously there's no save for Mortals typically, but in general terms, as the suggestion was made toward standard FNP etc).

 

Then you have the effect on wound deterioration that you now may not be suffering whereas you would have been without the 'X+++' etc.

 

You see my point anyway - lot of factors on a more complicated model :)

 

I don't know quite how I feel about it as it stated to work in truth. A chance of a save at all against Mortal Wound damage is unusual, but this isn't AoS where every other wound is Mortal Wound damage, so it's quite situational... Meh. I don't know. :)

[DeStinyFiSh]

My dudes are painted like Taranis, I will field them as Taranis (most of the time )

If rumours are true and preorder is next weekend we will see some WLTs, Relics and so on next week. Can't wait for it. I have not been that excited for the release of the 8th edition itself I think

[frosteldar]

 

 

While the 6+ FnP against MW is rather weak, I personally feel like it's a bit more balanced than if a Knight were to have just a 6+ FnP in general. Yeah, still kind of weak being only on a 6, but a FnP is still a pretty powerful thing. I think that'd almost be a bit broken for a Knight to have, especially with the points reductions and all the new goodies we're going to get with them.

 

Just my two cents is all. I won't run that Household anyway. Hawkshroud will most likely be my go-to.

Maybe a blanket 6+ FnP is too good but it could easily be a 5+ against mortal wounds, and I'd still call it fairly weak then but at least usuable.

 

 

It's tricky to balance which ever way you cut it really. I can see why they're being cautious...

 

A 6+ FNP on a single wound model is very different to a 6+ FNP on a model with 20+ wounds. Most of the time you won't even see the benefit on single wound infantry, but on a Knight? Law of averages means you just buffed that thing to effectively have several extra wounds.

 

I can't quite get my head around a what point it's worth having right now, but it's interesting...

 

I just had a thought about this.  If the special character pilot can now survive explosions and be placed on the table, perhaps the 6+ FNP vs mortal wounds will help the pilot have a greater chance of survival (if it takes mortal wounds)?  That may have an unknown benefit, however, I would still take some of the others over this trait anyway.

[CommodusXIII]

The special character is supposed to be a Freeblade, so he would have the <Freeblade> keyword instead of <Household>.

[sneakybamsen]

6+ FNP vs mortal wounds is far too situaltional. It's decent if you go to a tournament with a lot of psyker heavy lists and you will be the target of a lot of smiting. I don't see how Hawkshroud isn't better in almost any aspect though. Only when at a couple of wounds remaining, or in the case of not having taken that finishing wound, but it's going to be rare. I concur it should have been a 5+ FNP instead against mortals, as it is only against mortals.

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

 

I getcha buddy, it's not really what I'm saying though.

 

 

I'm not so much commenting on how it stated to work, more the suggestions people have made to 'increase' it? I'm just pointing out that it's more complicated than it seems on a large model. Increase a 6+++ to a 5+++ (for example) and you've added like a third more wounds? 

 

Late reply, but here's where I want to reiterate my point. If it was +5 FNP on mortal wounds, it's not that so much that he's added a third more wounds, it's that it takes a third more mortal wounds to kill him, if you're dead set about doing it through mortal wounds anyway.

 

But I do agree that it's fairly complex issue, it's probably too weak right now but 5+ could be potentially be too potent

[Stray]

 

 

 

I getcha buddy, it's not really what I'm saying though.

 

 

I'm not so much commenting on how it stated to work, more the suggestions people have made to 'increase' it? I'm just pointing out that it's more complicated than it seems on a large model. Increase a 6+++ to a 5+++ (for example) and you've added like a third more wounds? 

 

Late reply, but here's where I want to reiterate my point. If it was +5 FNP on mortal wounds, it's not that so much that he's added a third more wounds, it's that it takes a third more mortal wounds to kill him, if you're dead set about doing it through mortal wounds anyway.

 

But I do agree that it's fairly complex issue, it's probably too weak right now but 5+ could be potentially be too potent

 

 

Yeah, indeed so. I'm purposefully ignoring the 'mortal wounds' only scenario as some folk were advocating it should be a general FNP - and I don't know, maybe they're right. I'm more interested in trying to understand where the break points would be, and I don't think I'm there yet :)

 

I *do* wonder if maybe a general 6+++ that also works on Mortal Wounds is a sensible sweet spot. Split the difference as it were?

It may even be that's what we're getting. The leaks seem accurate enough, but are likely to be subject to poor wording in some cases.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Seems Terryn rules are roll an additional d6 and discard the lowest. Not add one extra d6 to the roll.

 

[PiñaColada]

That's disappointing... It doesn't matter for me personally since it's questor imperialis but still, not overly impressed

[Marshal Reinhard]

That's disappointing... It doesn't matter for me personally since it's questor imperialis but still, not overly impressed

 

It matters very much to me and I'm not too happy about it. Oh well.

[Stray]

 

That's disappointing... It doesn't matter for me personally since it's questor imperialis but still, not overly impressed

 

It matters very much to me and I'm not too happy about it. Oh well.

 

 

I feel you, it's hugely unimpressive (and uninspired) as bonuses go. But hey, on the bright side at least you got rules and new toys. I fear some of us will be waiting six months just to get points parity now. It's insanity that we're dealing with this in something that wants to be thought of as a competitive game :/

 

I've spoken to GW this evening and as expected... nothing. They won't confirm any kind of support going forward, won't say if I'll be throwing money away by investing in any of the new kits. One staff member on the community team even laughed and said 'serves you right for turning your back on the Emperor'. I just want to know if what I've invested in over several years will be in any way playable...

 

From what I'm seeing, a number of players are feeling really let down - I know I am.

[PiñaColada]

 

 

 

 

I feel you, it's hugely unimpressive (and uninspired) as bonuses go. But hey, on the bright side at least you got rules and new toys. I fear some of us will be waiting six months just to get points parity now. It's insanity that we're dealing with this in something that wants to be thought of as a competitive game :/

 

I've spoken to GW this evening and as expected... nothing. They won't confirm any kind of support going forward, won't say if I'll be throwing money away by investing in any of the new kits. One staff member on the community team even laughed and said 'serves you right for turning your back on the Emperor'. I just want to know if what I've invested in over several years will be in any way playable...

 

From what I'm seeing, a number of players are feeling really let down - I know I am.

 

I feel for you, especially since this is mainline GW and not FW. So it's the same team for crying out loud! But if they don't get updated with the codex then it has to happen with Chapter approved. Also this: serves you right for turning your back on the Emperor, while clearly meant as a joke is not a good way to speak to the consumer base.

[Stray]

 

 

 

 

 

I feel you, it's hugely unimpressive (and uninspired) as bonuses go. But hey, on the bright side at least you got rules and new toys. I fear some of us will be waiting six months just to get points parity now. It's insanity that we're dealing with this in something that wants to be thought of as a competitive game :/

 

I've spoken to GW this evening and as expected... nothing. They won't confirm any kind of support going forward, won't say if I'll be throwing money away by investing in any of the new kits. One staff member on the community team even laughed and said 'serves you right for turning your back on the Emperor'. I just want to know if what I've invested in over several years will be in any way playable...

 

From what I'm seeing, a number of players are feeling really let down - I know I am.

 

I feel for you, especially since this is mainline GW and not FW. So it's the same team for crying out loud! But if they don't get updated with the codex then it has to happen with Chapter approved. Also this: serves you right for turning your back on the Emperor, while clearly meant as a joke is not a good way to speak to the consumer base.

 

 

Cheers buddy. You remain my favourite grown-up drink ;)

[Bluflash]

Just completely guessing here, but maybe renegades simply use the freeblade rules?

[jeffersonian000]

Just completely guessing here, but maybe renegades simply use the freeblade rules?

That’s my guess, too.

 

SJ

[RipOffProductions]

so it seems that we're going to get to make our own "characters" for the Knight pilots who give buffs/nerfs and special abilities/rules(though it might be for Freeblades only? or at least Freeblades make more use of it? maybe Houses use premade characters?)

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/27/all-knights-great-and-small/

 

 

 

The personalities of each household – nay, each Imperial Knight – are as diverse as the Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes or Regiments of the Imperial Guard, and now, you’ll finally be able to represent that on the tabletop with nine new Household Traditions. These powerful faction abilities let you customise your collection to suit your play style.

If you prefer to go your own way, well, you’re in luck – the book ALSO features tables for generating your very own Freeblades, complete with epic, tragic backstories. Build your own from the traits you like, or throw caution to the wind and roll for them – you could, for example, end up with a Freeblade who fires with unerring accuracy… but also occasionally falls into murderous rages where he is forced to charge the foe. These rules are thematic, fun, and really let you go to town in bringing these characters to life.