Friends of Queen Bee: Armiger leg pose coming together

[JeffTibbetts]

That's right, folks. After having a couple kids (one boy, almost 2 years old now and one girl, almost 7 months), moving from one house to another, and generally just being busy as hell, I'm coming back.

 

I've been slow-burning on some Adeptus Mechanicus, I bought a bunch of Primaris but haven't done much with them, and my old marine project is largely on hold. But then Forgebane happened. Armiger Warglaives happened. 

 

That got my brain stirring again, thinking about fleshing out House Tibbetts itself, and progressing the Queen Bee's storyline. 

 

I'll get to that later, but for now just know that I plan to do a few conversions on both of the Armigers from the box. First and foremost, I want to make one of them running full-tilt forward. The other one will probably be in some sort of post-dustup power pose or perhaps a threatening/taunting pose. Both will include leg reposes, but having looked over the instructions over the last week or so (since the leaks dropped) and then taking a good look at the sprues last night, I think they will be MUCH easier to convert than the extant Imperial Knight frame the Queen is based on. 

 

It's still not going to be a walk in the park, but if you followed my work previously you'll know I'm a stickler for staying true to the original designers' intent, and documenting my work. The biggest difference this time around is my lack of free time, but I'll do my best to do the project justice nonetheless. 

 

I can't reveal a whole heck of a lot yet because I haven't done all that much, but I have mocked up a blue and white halved color scheme (you may notice this is opposite the Queen's black and yellow, which was very much intentional at the time but now I can finally complete that thought) and I already have a house crest for them. I'll need to make up some custom decals. 

 

I plan to do some ideating about what cuts I need to make and the best ways to do them, and I'll dish on some of my smaller conversion 'tweaks' soon. In the meantime, has ANYONE done any leg conversions yet? I haven't seen any online but surely they're out there. If you've seen one, maybe shoot mea link so I can learn from their work?

 

I always felt like I was on my own in the early days of the Queen Bee's leg conversion (I started like day 1), so this time around I want to harness the power of the network the B&C provides. Have a comment or question? Hit me up now before I get lost in the weeds. 

[Isolia]

Oh yiss! I discovered your former project well in its making, and reread all of it fondly. Your experience with reposing the knight has served many a hobbyist, too. Can't wait to see this new project unfold!

 

I haven't given much thought to the reposing of the armiger, as I quite like the pose they come in, but you got me intrigued :)

[JeffTibbetts]

Thanks!

I found the time to dig up a couple pics to liven this thread up (I know how y'all like pictures).

Here's a very quick and dirty photoshop mockup I did to see how the colors might work:

And here's the crest that I whipped up, I don't know how long ago.

I need to reread some old Knight background so I can remember how the "official" heraldry usually plays out with standard Imperial Knights. I'll probably stick with that so it won't be 100% left and right like the Queen Bee is. We'll see how I feel about it after some more research and Photoshopping.

I'm also toying with the idea the family is in the midst of a shift of allegiance from Imperial to Adeptus Mechanicus, hence leaving the chevrons in the mock up. I can't decide for sure if I'm going to do it, but I kind of like the idea that the events playing out around the Queen Bee (I have pretty extensive background written for her) have given the AdMech the leverage they need to flex on House Tibbetts nobles, thus creating a power imbalance as some nobles argue for a shift and others vote to maintain tradition. If you know me at all, you know I love to think of things like this and offer little clues.

As it stands, I figure these two Armigers have been sent out by the family to reach out to Aurelia herself on behalf of the family, as her communications back to her home world have been increasingly sporadic. In addition, they intend to ascertain the current status of the two other Knight frames that were sent out alongside the Queen before she became a Fleeblade. They're currently in Adeptus Mechanicus hands (or mechadendrites?) as per the agreement Aurelia made with them. I could go on for days but I think I'll hold up for now so as to not bore everyone to tears. Everything has a purpose, though, and I just need to flesh out the details.

[Biohazard]

This will be good :D The crest is looking good so far as well.

 

For a bit of background re the Admech stuff I’ve actually just finished reading Knights of the Imperium which has some really cool info about the Knight Household Sanctuary etc I’m about to start reading Kingsblade as well. I’m looking for more references so I can work on my own Knights fall to Khorne (which with all the honour and martial prowess etc that Knights strive for is practically a given :p)

 

Looking forward to what you come up with re poses. :tu:

[helterskelter]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy

[Subtle Discord]

*Subtle sits for a long moment, eyes glazed and a goofy Cheshire grin smeared across his face*

 

Consider investing in a razor/jeweler saw to aid in chopping up the legs with minimal material loss; I suspect you'll have lots of future use for one as well, saving you time and frustration as a good return on the $20 investment. Also, consider getting some thin push razor blades to help with the hip joint. I don't have one in-hand, but looking at the Armiger model and sprues in images I'd go about altering the legs just how I did the legs for my first Knight. WIth less hydraulic rods to deal with it should be straightforward to cut the hip, knee, heel/ankle, and toe, to give complete freedom to alter the legs.

 

Edit: P.S. Wouldn't friends of the Queen Bee be considered drones or workers?

[JeffTibbetts]

This will be good The crest is looking good so far as well.

 

For a bit of background re the Admech stuff I’ve actually just finished reading Knights of the Imperium which has some really cool info about the Knight Household Sanctuary etc I’m about to start reading Kingsblade as well. I’m looking for more references so I can work on my own Knights fall to Khorne (which with all the honour and martial prowess etc that Knights strive for is practically a given )

 

Looking forward to what you come up with re poses.

 

I just finished Kingsblade and there was some good stuff in there. I need to read Knights of the Imperium, though. They're my fave faction and the Knight households I like the most are the ones that are somewhat aloof allies as opposed to 'in the pocket' of one of the existing factions. 

 

Have you checked out KrautScientist's Knight, Gilgamesh? He's also fallen to Khorne and it was though martial pride just as you said. Totally worth checking out (a quick Google will get you there). 

*Subtle sits for a long moment, eyes glazed and a goofy Cheshire grin smeared across his face*

 

Consider investing in a razor/jeweler saw to aid in chopping up the legs with minimal material loss; I suspect you'll have lots of future use for one as well, saving you time and frustration as a good return on the $20 investment. Also, consider getting some thin push razor blades to help with the hip joint. I don't have one in-hand, but looking at the Armiger model and sprues in images I'd go about altering the legs just how I did the legs for my first Knight. WIth less hydraulic rods to deal with it should be straightforward to cut the hip, knee, heel/ankle, and toe, to give complete freedom to alter the legs.

 

Oh, totes. I used a little jeweler's saw on the Queen as well. And you're quite right about the reduced pistonage being a major boon. Also the ankle is a real ball joint this time around. All in all this one is an order of magnitude simpler. I mean, SHOULD be... 

 

As for drones or workers? Well... They're technically not her friends. They're family or friends of the family. She's a Freeblade now. If she somehow recruited them to her cause and they swore fealty to her, SURE they could be drones and that would probably be pretty cool on its own. In reality her drones and workers are the self-managed non-sacristan natives she's recruited and trained to aid her. It's basically a cult and they already exist in her background. Maybe some day I should do a force of counts-as Imperial Guard to act as her personal defense force. Teehee.

[JeffTibbetts]

Okay, so here are my initial thoughts on the leg cuts... I've broken it down into 3 images to keep it as clear as possible.

Okay, so this red line goes around the simple hinge on the rear of the leg. This is the one I'm thinking I can just use a chisel-blade hobby knife to sink behind the y-frame bit. The middle part of the leg there is actually fairly flat, so it should be easy to do if I'm very careful. Might be a bit of gap filling. The blue line would be done with a jeweler's saw and is all but identical to the cut I made on the Imperial Knight kit. I'm not worried about that one at all.

This next bit is, again, way simpler that it was on the 'big' Knight. The red line is only necessary if I want to change the angle of the foot drastically. I'm also keeping in mind I can use both long legs or short legs on one Armiger if that will help. I may not need to make this cut at all. The blue line is even more optional and probably won't be needed, but even if it is needed it would be a super easy one. Might need a touch of green stuff to round out a flat bit. Maybe...

This hip may well prove the most time-consuming bit... I think I'll be changing out the angle of the hips on maybe all 4 legs... The 'power pose' will likely have the knees splayed out just a bit, and the running one will need at least one hip to be something other than the dead-set straight on pose they're currently working with. So, I plan to carefully cut around the red line and destroy the rounded part in the process, clean up the inside of the ball joint, and either sculpt a new one or find a bead or marble that's the right size. Then I'll have to carefully cut out the detail of the hex bolt and little flanges and position it in the correct place on the new pose. This is one of those areas that will limit the amount of movement around the ball, since realistically the detail shouldn't be able to slip under the socket very far. I'm sure it'll be enough play to get the effect I want, though. The blue cut will hopefully be pretty minimal, but I expect it to need a bit of sculpting to look like the ribbed armor there is flexing appropriately.

After that I just need to worry about the cable on the back of the thigh and the piston on the inside of the thigh. So, yeah. Not a walk in the park but miles shorter than the journey the Queen took me on.

[frankendoodle65]

I have nothing at all useful to add at this stage as I've never worked on anything bigger than a dreadnought, but I'm so excited to watch this thread develop! I still see the Queen Bee as the golden standard that all Knights aspire to, so I have no doubt you'll knock it out of the park with these guys.

[KrautScientist]

http://iruntheinternet.com/lulzdump/images/gifs/dis-gon-be-good-dis-gonna-be-good-bear-sitting-chair-1378414300q.gif?id=

 

Aw, man, I was hoping the Armigers would be right up your alley -- consider me excited! Your Queen Bee still stands as a landmark project (honestly, who else actually got their model into an official GW videogame?), and it also provided invaluable inspiration when I converted and painted Gilgamesh (cheers for the shout out, by the way!).

 

So yeah, this should be quite something! If there's one downside to this, it's that I would have loved to see the Armigers in that lovely Queen Bee colour scheme -- but I know you'll be knocking this out of the park whatever colours you choose. Just remember to actually include a cockpit this time around (Biohazard has some very convincing proof of concept experiments in his thread).

[Gederas]

Oooooh, a new thread from the Knight Master? Consider myself already subbed :tu:

[JeffTibbetts]

Thanks for the support, folks!

[Naryn]

Thrilled by the idea of another knight project from you! Your first one was incredibly motivational. I’m dying to see what you come up with for these.

[DuskRaider]

It's great to see you back in the saddle, Jeff. Looking forward to seeing how you tackle this!

[Dragonlover]

Posting so I don't miss updates.

 

Also, feel free to post reams of background, I'll read em if nobody else does.

 

Dragonlover

[Canadian_F_H]

Looking forward to this. Yep.

[Lexington]

Oh, hello there. Think I'll take a seat for this.

[Legio Draconis]

Taking  a seat to follow as well. 

[JeffTibbetts]

Thanks again for the encouragement. I've been researching Knight heraldry a bit. One thing I liked about Knights, but didn't get to explore (because Freeblade) was the complicated and structured system of heraldry they used. It's since been expanded with the 7th Edition codex, so it's probably a good thing I never went too far down the rabbit hole. Looking through the old Companion book and the couple codexes, I'm really taking a shine to the way the heraldry works.

 

There wasn't really anything of note in the Forgebane book in terms of how the 'official' scheme scales and shakes out on Armigers, but the new codex will surely be out before I start painting them at this pace. I have, however, put a little thought into how I can keep the halved scheme and still include the important elements common to most Imperium-aligned houses. That includes things like the half Aquila on the rear of the shoulder plates and inside of the 'shin' armor. I need to decide what color to use for these panels, and that at least in part depends on the color of the transfers in the kit. I think they're white, so I'll probably stick with black fields for those areas. 

 

Looking over 'real' heraldry guides, I might do some diapering on the black panels. Funny word, I know, and believe me with a toddler and a baby diapers are on my brain, but if you're not familiar all that means is a subtle pattern overlaid on a colored field, with no special significance and with very little contrast. It's just decoration.

 

I also like how some houses, Terryn in particular, like to use traditional heraldic patterns on the 'personal' part of the armor. For Imperium-aligned Knights, this is (their) right forward cauldron and left knee. I'm not convinced that Armigers will have as much personal heraldry, given their lower ranks. I feel as though these machines are more 'borrowed' and this is reinforced by not having a full throne mechanicum. If that's the case, I'm not sure what SHOULD go on that front pauldron, but of course there's no knee armor at all so no issue there. 

 

In the Forgebane books, that area is taken over by serial markings, but the only examples they show are mechanicus-aligned. 

 

At any rate, I need to choose a so-called sympathetic color to use for that shoulder area or markings in general. It will have to look okay on the white side, but I probably won't use it on the blue. I'm thinking yellow would be a natural counter to the blue, but of course that would be low-vis on the white. 

 

I also want to incorporate some ermine fields, or colored panels a la the personal deviations in the Imperial Knight codex. I forgot just HOW personalized some of those suits were, and I love how the book describes why they look that way. Ugh. I ALSO have to come up with an 'emblem' version of the heraldry, which is problematic since it's based on my actual family coat of arms of three blue cats passant. The emblem is supposed to show up on the blue part of the pauldron, so I guess I'll make a single cat head in white? That's different from every other Knight crest example so I feel like it's not in sync. I'll probably do that anyway, but still....

 

At any rate, in lieu of any actual progress I've been having fun trying to solve these puzzles. I'm happy for any thoughts or suggestions you all might have. I guess this is what I get for trying to adapt 'real' heraldry instead of keeping it more in-universe. 

[Jolemai]

Watching with interest.

[JeffTibbetts]

Okay! I finally brought some of my stuff to work and got an hour or so in on my lunch break. Work has officially begun and the early results are pretty positive.

Take a look.

These leg cuts really weren't so hard to make! The knee was just like the big Knight. I used a jeweler's saw to follow the gap and I'll rebuild the spacing with a bit of plastic card. Easy peasy. The back joint was a bit more challenging and requires a bit of cleanup, but the range of motion unlocks a TON of options for posing. I just went in from the back with a narrow chisel hobby knife, gently rocking it back and forth. I kept the outside "U" shape almost entirely intact, and the other part is a nice flat piece so it'll be easy to gap fill for a nice, flush fit. I do have to replace two small rivets but that's a tiny price to pay.

I also assembled the hips just so I can do some dry fits for posing when I get there.

This leg will be one of the running Armigers, but I'm not sure yet if it'll be on the ground or coiled up and ready for the next stride. If it's touching the ground, I may shorten up the shin piston to simulate the extra load of weight on that leg. Even that should be pretty simple. Extending it would be a bigger challenge because of the channel on the sides. And the ankles should be pretty easy to pose as well. I'll probably have to cut and extend the pistons on the back ankle, but they'll be pretty easy compared to the Queen Bee's leg pistons.

Really happy with the way these cuts turned out. All that planning really helps, especially when it actually works.

[JeffTibbetts]

Another day, another lunch break hobby session. Working on the second leg (the cuts were even easier this time around) and the hips, to give some side-to-side motion as well. This will be the full-tilt running pose so I want to make it as dynamic as possible. It looks super rough right now, but I'm confident it will smooth out as I rebuild it.

One leg will be all the way back, and the other will be pulled as tight as the design allows, ready to spring forward. I've been watching slow-motion videos of ostriches running (did you know racing ostriches like a horse is a sport? They also pull chariots. Who knew?) to get a feeling of how the leg motions would work. It's not a one-for-one thing of course since the animals have a HUGE range of motion, and their upper body stays pretty darn still. For the sake of drama I'll add a swing to the hip.

I was really surprised to find the ball joint at the waist doesn't allow for any tilt at all. I may modify that or just work with it, as it seems to be intentional.

I'm excited to get the feet on there. I will for sure need to modify at least one of the sets of pistons at the rear of the leg. It still should be pretty easy.

[Subtle Discord]

Woohoo, makin' a mess! That's right, chop it up!

 

With regards to heraldry, I think you're right on about the yellow, it's an excellent pairing with blue but can struggle on white. I still think it's the best pairing and a bit of black outline can quickly solve the contrast issue. I'd blend the elements you've got in the coat of arms image to solve the 'condensed' smaller version you're considering; try taking the three dots and adding them over a single lion head; simple but effective, this ties the elements together while also reinforcing the triple motif that's happening in the larger heraldry.

[JeffTibbetts]

It's a cat. I know lions are cooler, but I think the fact it's a cat is hilarious. And yeah, I think the emblem can just be the head. I kind of like the idea of the three ermines to mirror the triple motif, though. I'll see how it looks. Cheers! 

 

Good call on maybe using yellow with black outlines, as well. I might mock up some of those. 

[Subtle Discord]

Oh, interesting. I said lion only because of the typical convention in my mind; stylized cats like that usually represent lions, so says my questionably informed brain. I think it's plenty cool that they are actually proper cats.