Deathwatch Codex Hopes and Dreams

[Moostick]

 

Well maybe I'm justed used to playing with more complicated game systems. I don't see where it would be more of a mess than keeping track of what marks, veteran skills, and/or daemonic gifts your units had access to in CSM 3.5. Even a system of changing faction traits for each squad each round wouldn't be a real problem to keep track of. Now if it was faction traits based per model in the squad, as suggested earlier in the thread, then yes, that would be too much of a pain.

 

 

I didn't mean a mess as in it'd be difficult to keep track of. Well, not for the DW player, but it would be difficult for your opponent (provided the DW player is honest).

 

More of it being partly unfair/unbalanced, dictating which shoulder pads are used, and messing with the flow of the game (among other things). I can already see your opponent asking you several times a turn which unit had which tactics every single turn.

 

Edit: Primadonawatch. I see what they did there.

[Skaorn]

If the faction trait were gained by the sergeant of the squad it would be not much different than Marks of Chaos. If you could rotate the trait you could always take poker chips and use a sharpie to put a faction symbol on them so you can drop them next to each squad as you activate them for your opponent's benefit. The benefits would of course be baked into the point cost of the squads. As for modeling, it kind of goes against theme to make a kill team out of one chapter of marines. If you're going to do multiple different chapters though, most people will likely stick to the main ones for simplicity. Of course you could always be that guy and use Chaos Legion markings or My Little Pony cutie marks (I hope you go with option 2).

 

As for cheaters, there are always ways to deal with them. I liked how some of my friends who are WAY more competitive than I am handle them. Purposely play them, point out where they were breaking the rules but allow it for the game, give them the minimum there army was over points by, and hand them a humiliating defeat. This did not go well for a guy who was purposely mixing the old Craftworld codex and using the Ulthwie Seer Council, Aliatoc Pathfinders and Disruption table, and Biel-Tan's Aspect Warriors as troops. It literally ended in tears. Of course you couldn't let my friend who won that game play new players because he can't turn that competitiveness off, so there was always a downside.

 

What I would do with DW, personally, would be to get rid of the GI Joe elements of the KTs. The biker and the jet pack guy in a squad of infantry can go, it was a dumb idea. Design units based on actual specialist roles to play and play up that DW needs members that have to think outside the box considering they are dealing with 40K X-Files. You could still have KTs as your base troops who are the best of the best with honors doing your grunt work. You would then have observer/assassin units equipped with scary sniper rifles who are there to gather info on new Xenos forces over long term surveillance and later take out key units like synapse creatures or etherials. Containment units would specialize in biological threats and live capture for later study, maybe even getting access to bikes to chase down prey. Acquisition units would deal with the containment and destruction of Xenos technology and could probably get access to fun special weapons like Xenarch lightning guns or Khrave Extinction Carbines. First Contact squads would be the elite of the elite who get sent into completely unknown situations either in Terminator armor or with jump packs depending on the situation. Psi Ops will probably be very self explanatory as a small unit of librarians dealing with psychic threats. You could even do more out there things like a suicide unit that has access to something that boosts their fighting capabilities but completely burns them out so it is used as a last resort to try to hold out for reinforcement or suicide missions. Those who use it have their name carved on Mercury or some other wacky honor for their service.

[Raychu]

Sorry guys I didn't read the whole messages, but here is what I've heard. (if you speak french, go get FWS live video from the 5th of April)

 

primaris kill team. 5 intercessors then 5 other primaris marines like agressors or hellblasters. they get combat unit.

possibly a stratageme to deep strike any squad.

like in 7th edition with rules / strategemes to choose rerolls for wounding troops or hq etc.

 

possibly mid-June. (but I didn't get the date proprely, sorry)

[WAR]

 

possibly mid-June. 

 

[Vel'Cona]

I'm more bored of the "unit role" bonus USR.  It's a lazy way to account for Xenos-hunting and doesn't show the kind of ingenuity seen in other 'dexes.

[Drizzt79]

Oh c’mon mid june?! I hoped for mid april

[Delta.Skies]

Oh c’mon mid june?! I hoped for mid april

Knights come before deathwatch, then I think harlequins. Then us.

[allegedlynerdy]

Eh, I heard next round of releases, between harlequins and Imperial knights. They've been getting a codex out about twice a month....Drukhari came a bit ahead of time... Maybe mid-to-late April?

[Boyadventurer]

Lately June has been getting brought up as being the Ork month, so I would expect the next trio of codexes to span May probably.

I agree with you Vel. I get why it was done in 7th, but now that we have strategems and keywords, there's no excuse to not have faction specific things that are more specific and fluffy. "Any casualties caused by bolter weapons in this squad this turn against <NECRON> units cannot be brought back via Reanimation protocols", "select a unit, until your next turn <TYRANID> units within 6" do not benefit from Synapse" stuff like that. Since strategems cover special gear as well as tactics (Hellfire Shells, Flakk Missile, etc), it can go a long to to helping the DW seem more "well-equipped" than just their equipment list appears.

[Raychu]

so after discussing with people having watched the same video as me.

apparently it's going to be around july. more or less the same time as the new kill team.

 

Delta skies is right. Imperial knights (May). Harlequins (June). Deathwatch (july).

 

the orks are coming after September. sorry.

[xenomortis]

Taken from a thread on DakkaDakka, credit to the author etc etc.

 

This is from the youtube channel French Wargame studio latest live, they said this yesterday and they were totally right about drukhari leaks in the live before this one. 

Information Tidbits 

Codex harlequins : 
- There will be a Portal Fortification, 120Pts Not under 14HP 3+ 5++ T8, that you will set everywhere on the table but more than 12inch of enemy and more than 6 inch of objective, that will give the possibility to ds units from it, with a strat similar to necron if he is destroyed you can set them. After the portal is destroyed unit are not forced to be more than 9’’ to the enemy. Strongly implied that this unit will be available to aeldari. 

- A warptime spell for Harlequin unit 

Codex Deathwatch: 

This is the go codex for primaris: they called it the codex Primawatch 

- For primaris You can mix unit like this : 5 intercessors ( barebone) + a mix of 5 other miniatures from primaris ( for example agressors, hellbasters, interceptors) 

Tactical flexibility stratagem to split your squad 



- There will be a stratagem ( Teleportarium) to deepstrike a unit of death watch. 

- Stratagem to give sniper rules on death watch unit against xenos . ( they take for example hellblasters sniping synapse tyranid) 

- Stratagem auspex scan but work without deepstrike against xenos ( they take examples pointys ears that come at 12”inch and you shoot at them) 

- Something to reroll wounds against troops? not precised if stratagem 

- They talk about something that can remove tau markerlights? no idea of what type of things that can be 



Kill team will be out the same month than deathwatch codex 

[TheUbikator]

Strategems sound very good. "Prmiariwatch" made my heart sunk.

[allegedlynerdy]

"Prmiariwatch" made my heart sunk.

To be fair, all the Marine stuff has been very primaris focused, as far as how it's been hyped. I still mostly see just regular marine armies. I doubt that will change, especially for something as unique as Deathwatch. Not to mention a lot of the best rules in the other marine codexs are still non-primaris.

[TheUbikator]

 

"Prmiariwatch" made my heart sunk.

To be fair, all the Marine stuff has been very primaris focused, as far as how it's been hyped. I still mostly see just regular marine armies. I doubt that will change, especially for something as unique as Deathwatch. Not to mention a lot of the best rules in the other marine codexs are still non-primaris.

 

I see most of the time a lone squad of hellblasters and interceptors, when I play against marines so there is that. IG codex is superb and reignited my interest in that army (and so far GW did a good job with most codices), but I can't shake the bad feeling about DW codex. Well, I might be pleasantly surprised.

[Raychu]

FWS called it primawatch because then tend to focus on optimised tourney lists. with that in mind, the deathwatch codex seems (for them) to be powerfull with primaris abuse. it doesn't mean standard SM won't be in it.

[Thanatos31]

FWS called it primawatch because then tend to focus on optimised tourney lists. with that in mind, the deathwatch codex seems (for them) to be powerfull with primaris abuse. it doesn't mean standard SM won't be in it.

 

 

did they elaborate on the competitive side of things with regards to deathwatch? 

 

[Raychu]

no. because they cannot speak freely To this extend.

 

but you understand the power of 5 hellblasters deep stricking with the possibility to reroll to wound against troops or hq.

or 5 agressors deep stricking.

 

Feel the power of the primaris.

[Moostick]

Those leaks really don't tell us anything we didn't already know or assume.

 

Gotta get those clicks though.

[ashc]

Its only a small ask but i just want to be able to use the full contents of the dark imperium set - Gravis captain, Ancient and lieutenants would be great additions in my eyes.

[Prot]

Guys we're starting to repeat info here including 'leaked' info from other sources.

 

I think it stinks they're waiting so long, but I think we agree this is all happening around Xenos codexes, and Kill team.

 

Really months ago me, and others, knew the only way to expand the line without models is try to wedge us into line with Primaris. So far I'm having trouble imagining that combo salvaging the codex, and it not being a case of just take the Marine's codex, add Guilliman and there's your 'competitive' Primaris. (Don't forget the vehicles will still be extremely limited).

 

No new models will greatly inhibit our ability to have competitive units made out of our existing models. Deep Strike MUST be a thing (probably costly as heck too and CP wise we'll be starved as usual.)

 

The biggest thing I'm hoping to salvage the whole idea is the Corvus. (I swear though if I can't put Primaris in it, I don't know what I'll do with it.)

[Thanatos31]

I just think we need to really wait. I don't see the entire DW faction gaining any competitive aspect outside of being an additional Vanguard or Patrol Detachment to support a normal Space marine Chapter. 
There's just no indication inclusion of the mediocre primaris with their limited wargear options will make the DW more viable ( avoiding the word competitive without seeing the Codex) 

[Moostick]

After absorbing the recent changes to each faction and getting some understanding as to their effects, I finally know what my ultimate hope is for our Codex.

 

Please, PLEASE, don't tell us the same team that handled the Grey Knights did our codex as well.

[voidbanisher]

I wanna see deathwatch centurions and or scouts

[Vel'Cona]

 

Please, PLEASE, don't tell us the same team that handled the Grey Knights did our codex as well.

 

Regardless of who writes the codex, the general consensus is it's better to be later in the edition in terms of release timing than early.  Creep is an inevitable part of the developing meta and this is especially true given GW is actually engaged in this development now more than ever.  While DW may not be the most optimal purely in terms of how the edition has evolved, just being a later release gives us the advantage that GW has learned from their earlier mistakes and is drafting corrections accordingly.

[techsoldaten]

Please, PLEASE, don't tell us the same team that handled the Grey Knights did our codex as well.

 

Honestly, that might not be the worst thing.

 

Grey Knights have some pretty serious defects that can only be addressed using allies. Pretty sure the design team knows what those are.

 

If Deathwatch were designed to address those defects, the result might be a very competitive army.

 

I would rather have someone learning from past mistakes than a fresh team making it up as they go along.