The Blood Raven's Thousand Sons

[The Yncarne]

My current thinking is to see how buffing the 20 man squad works in practice. Splitting fire should give me more options than I could in older editions.

 

I’m hoping my opponent splits fire between the blob, the raider, and the prince. We’ll see how this works in practice.

 

Quixus, I haven’t seen much benefit to the aspiring sorcerer and hope to get more spells off with the higher warp charge cost. I think the aspiring sorcerer comes more into play in HTH than in the psychic phase. At least for me.

 

It’s a casual game and I expect mistakes to be made since I’ll be drinking one of the local crafts while playing.

[Sonoftherubric21]

My current thinking is to see how buffing the 20 man squad works in practice. Splitting fire should give me more options than I could in older editions.

 

I’m hoping my opponent splits fire between the blob, the raider, and the prince. We’ll see how this works in practice.

 

Quixus, I haven’t seen much benefit to the aspiring sorcerer and hope to get more spells off with the higher warp charge cost. I think the aspiring sorcerer comes more into play in HTH than in the psychic phase. At least for me.

 

It’s a casual game and I expect mistakes to be made since I’ll be drinking one of the local crafts while playing.

 

20 man squads are pretty great in some respects.  The main negative is morale, if your enemy focuses the unit as its a giant target you may need to have 2 CP ready to stop the morale roll. 

 

stack buffs onto that unit, it becomes a threat so big your opponent must focus it or risk losing the ball game due to 17 Inferno Bolters and 2 Soul Reapers stacked with Prescience, VOTLW, and probably a defensive buff of some sort, along with a baby sitting exalted/ahri/prince......  Needless to say, it hurts.  Point that unit at anything that is NOT T8 and it will go away fast. 

[The Yncarne]

Agree with the Sonoftherubric2's thinking.

 

We played Spoils of War using Search and Destroy deployment at 2,000 points.

 

My opponent played Ad Mech. I'm unfamiliar with the list and he proxies using Therians so that makes it even harder to know. He did run 2 onagers, 2 dominus, an engineer, 2 squads with plasma guns of some sort, 2 squads of rangers, and a handful of other infantry units. He ran two battalions so had 13 command points.

 

Game was called at the end of turn 3 due to time. I was ahead 8-3.

 

Lessons learned:

• the 20 man rubric squad really does require one to play Insane Bravery.  I played it each turn. I only removed one squad and decimated two others with this unit, but my opponent's focused fire on the unit freed up my other units to do what they needed.
• the Helm of the Third Eye wasn't as effective as I hoped. I got 2 points back from my opponent. It was enough for this game, but I was out of command points bottom of turn 3.
• Stacking defensive spells and stratagems on a single larger unit is more effective than trying to do the same on multiple small units. 
• The daemon prince isn't worried about S6 as much as he was in previous editions. Giving him "Hulk out" with Diabolic Strength and Aetherstride (said it was a friendly game) helped immensely and I managed to Warptime him safely away from my opponent's lines once he was down to a single wound.
• My Scarab Occult shot one round and the rubrics in the rhino secured two objectives without being fired upon or shooting at anybody else. Nevertheless, the SOT finished off a squad with shooting.
• I didn't miss long range, high strength, anti-tank weapons as much as I feared.
• Onagers are difficult to really take out with characters and stratagems at hand. I put 17 wounds on one, but it never was removed.

I'm not sure this is a competitive list, but it was fun to try out. It's always fun to win (my first with the codex), but being prepared to juggle cards, reserves, and scenarios makes it much easier. My game time cognitive load was much better than the previous 3 codex games.

 

Thanks for reading.

[Dragonlover]

Fwiw, I've been playing just Chaos Marines since the edition dropped and I still forget to use stratagems. Even the really obvious ones, like Vets of the Long War. I need to start arranging my cards better I think.

 

Really sweet army btw, love the blue you've achieved. Have you considered joining the ETL this year? Our Outpost is here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346733-chaos-space-marines-outpost/

 

Any questions, feel free to post in the Outpost thread or drop me a PM.

 

Dragonlover

[The Yncarne]

Thanks Dragonlover. Arranging the cards ahead of time helped me last time.

 

I didn’t join the ETL for fear of not finishing. I’m a picky and slow painter for the most part and didn’t want to hurt the cause.

[Dragonlover]

Sure we can't convince you to add a single character? One missing Exalted Sorcerer at the end would be negligible, but a completed one would be a boost. Besides, the more the merrier!

 

Dragonlover

[Raven1]

I didn’t join the ETL for fear of not finishing. I’m a picky and slow painter for the most part and didn’t want to hurt the cause.

Then do just a few low point vows. Something you would finish anyway.

[Archaeinox]

 

• My Scarab Occult shot one round and the rubrics in the rhino secured two objectives without being fired upon or shooting at anybody else. Nevertheless, the SOT finished off a squad with shooting.

 

This is why I keep considering 5man units of Rubrics in rhinos against the nastier players that will just engage the heavy hitters.

[The Yncarne]

That’s part of why I took the land raider too. It is a big target. Most of the game was me making saves on the rubrick and land raider. Gotta figure out the optimal mix for everything else. I’m not yet sold on the raider, but not sure what else I have that is semi-resilient.

 

10% of my army’s points not shooting seems like a waste, but if they can grab objectives without fear, that is empowering.

 

This last game was against a gun line. Had he been more aggressive, it might have been a different outcome.

 

I’ll see if I have something to pledge. With the nice weather finally here it’s tough to get motivated. :)

[Dragonlover]

Yeah, when I get around to Thousand Sons I'm thinking of five man units with some Scarab Occult backup because the models are awesome.

 

Dragonlover

[Quixus]

Let's hope the survey will have some impact on GW's rules team and we get the SRC/5 man back.

[Kite Senet]

Let's hope the survey will have some impact on GW's rules team and we get the SRC/5 man back.

 

"Back"? Did we have 5 man SRC at some point? I was under the impression that that had always been a perk of CSM Rubrics, at least throughout 8th edition.

[Quixus]

Since there was only one rubric sheet in the index, we along with CSM had the SRC in 5 man squads.

[Kite Senet]

Since there was only one rubric sheet in the index, we along with CSM had the SRC in 5 man squads.

Are you sure? My Index:Chaos has separate T-Sons/CSM datasheets, on pages 29 and 54, and neither sheet permits 5 man SRC. I mean, the CSM Rubrics replaced the CSM datasheet on page 29 but I was under the impression that the page 54 datasheet was the legal Thousand Sons Rubrics datasheet from the launch of 8th until our codex's launch.

[The Yncarne]

I played it as Index until Codex CSM was purchased. Then I used that until the ‘Sons codex.

 

I thought the CSM codex had the option for 5 man squads to take the heavy weapon, but I’m not in a position to check.

 

I don’t always play correctly though as this thread proves. :)

[Kite Senet]

The CSM codex does permit 5 man SRC's, but I don't think it permitted us to play Thousand Sons as the Legion keyword. I'm pretty sure our index datasheet was the legal datasheet for Rubric Marines all the way up until we got our codex, which is to say Thousand Sons Rubricae with 5 man SRC's have never really been allowed.

[Panzer]

I have the Index here. It was never possible to have a soulreaper cannon in a unit of 5. The Index clearly says "For every ten models in the unit, ... "

[Quixus]

I must have misremembered. Still it seems weird that other warbands have access to more SRCs than the Thousand Sons themselves

[Kite Senet]

To be fair, it doesn't change anything except with MSU Rubrics. Our 10 mans get just the same number of SRCs as their 10 mans. I prefer to think of it as the Black Legion et al. having less access to Rubrics themselves, such that even Sorcerers competent enough to control huge squads of Rubrics and who are rewarded with heavy weaponry for their competency still often can't keep their squads at or above 10 Rubricae. They have far less competence with the rites necessary to restore a Rubric Marine who has been scattered to the wind, after all.

 

Besides that, SRC's are a matter of equipment, which the Black Legion and Iron Warriors would indeed be better at generally. Our Sorcerers spend more time plundering libraries than forgeworlds, which is why our Aspiring Sorcerers know a cantrip or two unlike the pathetic excuses for Sorcerers amongst the lesser traitor legions.

[The Yncarne]

I hope to get my first SRC painted in a week or two. I didn’t think they’d add much to the MSU lists, but in a squad of 20, it’ll be more interesting.

[Quixus]

Besides that, SRC's are a matter of equipment, which the Black Legion and Iron Warriors would indeed be better at generally. Our Sorcerers spend more time plundering libraries than forgeworlds, which is why our Aspiring Sorcerers know a cantrip or two unlike the pathetic excuses for Sorcerers amongst the lesser traitor legions.

If it is just a matter of equipment, why don't marines that aren't dust yet get them?

[The Yncarne]

To keep the Sons unique?

[Paladin777]

It would be nice to be able to have SRC’s in a nine man unit though for both fluff and the ability to have a character with the squad in a rhino.

[Kite Senet]

 

Besides that, SRC's are a matter of equipment, which the Black Legion and Iron Warriors would indeed be better at generally. Our Sorcerers spend more time plundering libraries than forgeworlds, which is why our Aspiring Sorcerers know a cantrip or two unlike the pathetic excuses for Sorcerers amongst the lesser traitor legions.

If it is just a matter of equipment, why don't marines that aren't dust yet get them?

 

 

I didn't say "just" a matter of equipment, just that it was a part of why. And I was under the impression that that was exactly what the Autocannon is for CSM. I mean they were called Reaper Autocannons during the Horus Heresy, weren't they? So it stands to reason that the SRC is derived from that same particular variety of ancient equipment, even if it became more ornate through exposure to the warp.

 

It is also implied (very indirectly) in the Shadow War Armageddon ruleset that (non-Rubric) CSM who choose to serve Tzeentch can be blessed with Inferno bolts, so I wouldn't be surprised if ordinary CSM could take SRCs or Inferno boltguns. But I would also not be surprised if simple exposure to the raw warp energy of these sorceries could be dangerous and warping to humans who are not shielded either by their own psychic might or the Rubric.

 

(I also could've sworn that the 6th edition CSM could take inferno bolts, but I'm looking at the codex now and I don't see it in there, so I think I may have been wrong on that point.)

[WarriorFish]

Blood Raven's WIP topic isn't the place for this discussion, please take it to a new topic for further discussion. Thanks.