BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Yeah it has not happened yet. Prolly what Russ did will somehow help Horus. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 It's clearly played as a chink in Horus' mental armour, in a way that it seems to point towards Horus recovering his humanity at the very end as we know will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 That makes a lot more sense to me and I say that not having read the book yet. Let's give the loyalists a little credit. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manchu warlord Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Let's give the loyalists a little credit. But they (The Vlka Fenryka) died like flies in the book though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Let's give the loyalists a little credit. But they (The Vlka Fenryka) died like flies in the book though. that boarding action was amazing though. bat :cuss crazy spear head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Space Wolves always get slaughtered in “most” novels. If only to prove the point that they will “get the job done with loyalty”. I dislike it when Legions get so badly schooled when they are after all super human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Yes, the Rout get knocked around quite a bit, taking what was already a depleted legion and effectively causing losses that render them perhaps ineffective for the rest of the "main" conflict. But given the suicide-attack nature of the mission, what force wouldn't get mauled that bad? And boy did they go down swinging, with the Vengeful Spirit itself fairly well battered. And that's kind of the point, what makes it a uniquely Space Wolves tale. The fact that Russ and his sons would do it anyway. There's a fine line between reckless and daring and the Rout straddle that line perhaps better than anyone. It was reckless and badly informed and a poor plan...because it failed. But had it succeeded, or had even a marginally better amount of success, then it may have been considered the height of derring-do, precisely the sort of bold strokes that win wars in a single action. Consider the primary difference between Operation Entebbe and Operation Eagle Claw: one worked, the other didn't. Russ will always play those odds. That's what separates him from his brothers and what makes him uniquely equipped to be the counter-point to so many of them. When Horus lowers his shields at the climax of the Siege of Terra, the Emperor, Sanguinius, and Dorn decide to take the bait because there is a chance of hope that it will work. Russ, had he been there for the Siege, probably would have exhausted his forces by launching them at the Vengeful Spirit on day 1 of the siege. It's a character trait/flaw that is what makes him interesting, whether as an object of admiration or eye-rolling. And to me, that's what this book is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Russ likes to roll the dice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Luck is random too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Yes as others already know he does seem to do something because he’s the executor and because that’s what people expect even though he’s clearly more than that and just playing a role. Unfortunately playing the role ends up with thousands dead and a crippled Legion. The Sons of Horus were known for their ability to win no matter the odds. The chances are they would have wiped the Wolves out if they hadn’t retreated. Funnily enough other than Russ using the spear I can’t really remember much else of the fight with Horus. I can’t even remember how Russ got so badly injured. Bad really. I enjoyed the book after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Russ likes to dance close to the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manchu warlord Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Furthermore, the Space Wolves' number will continue to dwindle in the sequel battle of Yarrant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Well, they are decreased to roughly 2000 or so Astartes after the Heresy/Scouring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 If I recall correctly, they suffer 30% losses at Prospero and it's all downhill from there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascanius Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 What do you mean by "trope" in this context, DarKnight? They way I mean is that the idea Russ is pretending to be an uncivilized barbarian while actually intelligent is not something that is used as a starting point to further explore his character, but is just jammed down our throats as hamfisted characterization. It's just lazy IMO Right, I get you. I was just unsure because I haven't seen people use "trope" to mean "cliche" or "bad idea" very much. Sounds like the trope TV Tropes lists as Informed Attribute, I guess? (Tropes Are Tools) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDarth151 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Yes, the Rout get knocked around quite a bit, taking what was already a depleted legion and effectively causing losses that render them perhaps ineffective for the rest of the "main" conflict. But given the suicide-attack nature of the mission, what force wouldn't get mauled that bad? And boy did they go down swinging, with the Vengeful Spirit itself fairly well battered. And that's kind of the point, what makes it a uniquely Space Wolves tale. The fact that Russ and his sons would do it anyway. There's a fine line between reckless and daring and the Rout straddle that line perhaps better than anyone. It was reckless and badly informed and a poor plan...because it failed. But had it succeeded, or had even a marginally better amount of success, then it may have been considered the height of derring-do, precisely the sort of bold strokes that win wars in a single action. Consider the primary difference between Operation Entebbe and Operation Eagle Claw: one worked, the other didn't. See, this would work, if BL hadn't went out of their way to maul them badly in every battle they have ever participated in HH, and it only happens because the plot requires it, cause they are the loyalist, and we can't have loyalists doing well. And that involves retconns. Lots and lots of retconns. The worst is probably the battle of Alaxxes, where half, at best, of Alpha Legion fleet continues to wreck Space Wolves, supposedly because they depleted from Prospero... only, you know, it's a space battle, and Magnus, explicitly, sabotaged the orbital defences of Prospero and send its fleet away. Which means that Space Wolf fleet was somehow depleted in a battle in which their enemy HAD NO WAY TO HARM THEIR SHIPS. Oh, but when Lorgar and Angron assault Armatura and explicitly :cuss up, multiple times, in ground assault against fortified world that not only had thousands of Ultramarines on it, but also a billion of regular soldiers, they not only win, but also have enough forces left to immediately split them, assault multiple worlds and successfully conquer them. It is immensely annoying and frustrating to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manchu warlord Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 See, this would work, if BL hadn't went out of their way to maul them badly in every battle they have ever participated in HH, and it only happens because the plot requires it, cause they are the loyalist, and we can't have loyalists doing well. And that involves retconns. Lots and lots of retconns. The worst is probably the battle of Alaxxes, where half, at best, of Alpha Legion fleet continues to wreck Space Wolves, supposedly because they depleted from Prospero... only, you know, it's a space battle, and Magnus, explicitly, sabotaged the orbital defences of Prospero and send its fleet away. Which means that Space Wolf fleet was somehow depleted in a battle in which their enemy HAD NO WAY TO HARM THEIR SHIPS. Oh, but when Lorgar and Angron assault Armatura and explicitly :cuss up, multiple times, in ground assault against fortified world that not only had thousands of Ultramarines on it, but also a billion of regular soldiers, they not only win, but also have enough forces left to immediately split them, assault multiple worlds and successfully conquer them. It is immensely annoying and frustrating to see. Typical bias towards the traitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Honestly there have been only a few select bright spots for the Imperium in the HH series... gets old after awhile . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 You mean the galaxy spanning civil war that rips the Imperium apart doesn't have enough bright spots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 The Ultramarines managed to get completely caught unawares and then proceeded to retake their lost territory and then make their way back to Terra. They are awesome. Space Wolves ... not so much. (according to the authors/editors etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 The Blood Angels also walked into a trap that was meant to crush the entire legion. According to Sanguinius at the end of FtT (or UE) he still has most of his legion in Imperium Secundus. Though you wouldn't know it based on the disappearing act the legion managed to pull throughout all of Pharos and every other UE tied story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 The Dark Angels are the only Legion so far portrayed that goes 1-1* against another Legion (The Night Lords) and wins--no ifs, ands, or buts--in a straight up campaign against them (Thramas). Not sure if the part of Praetorian of Dorn; Battle of Pluto, where the Alpha Legion and Imperial Fists get into a scrap counts b/c well Alpha Legion even though that exact part was a relatively straight-up fight. *ok technically it was like half the I Legion vs 95% of the VIII Legion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Doesn't Thramas only turn in the DA favor once the Lion gets the Tuchulcha engine? I thought one of the Dark Angels (maybe Corswain?) talks about how poorly the Thramas Crusade is going, and it's not sustainable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Only because they couldn’t find them and keep up with them because they keep running away. The first Legion are meant to be totally perfect. It was noted by Guilliman how perfect they were when they all landed on Ultramar in perfect synchronisation. They were after all the first to go on a crusade and essentially had to fight all wars on their own originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 On the other hand, Russ may have weakened Horus in a way that proves critical, through a gambit no one else would have dared. We must wait and see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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