Wolfsbane HH49

[bluntblade]

Ooh, nice

[Manchu warlord]

It is good to hear the VI legion was dealt a massive blow to their numbers.  Something that they really deserved, and was long over due.  

[Moonreaper666]

It is good to hear the VI legion was dealt a massive blow to their numbers. Something that they really deserved, and was long over due.

I thought they lost a lot of Marines fighting against the Alpha Legion?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

It is good to hear the VI legion was dealt a massive blow to their numbers. Something that they really deserved, and was long over due.

I thought they lost a lot of Marines fighting against the Alpha Legion?

 

 

The Wolves did.

 

Between Prospero, Alaxxes, Wolfsbane and Yarant, Im frankly surprised there was any Wolves left to persecute the Scouring, let alone have a Second Founding Successor. 

[Amun Ra]

 

 

 

To those who have read it, how well are the Sons of Horus portrayed? Does Haley get more into the Legion culture than McNeill? For all the effort he seems to have made, it never felt more than surface-level to me.

 

One Space Wolf squad that got separated during the assault decides to sell their lives and take out some of the Venegeful Spirits critical systems before they get taken out. They find themselves entering a large atmosphere recycler and decide that this is probably their best shot, and start to evaluate how to dismantle it. A light appears on a gangway above them and Abaddon and a squad of Justaerian appear out of nowhere. The Wolf squad leader challenges Abaddon to single combat, in which Abaddon turns down. Abaddon knows that Russ is being evacuated off the ship, and has no desire to fight in single combat whilst he escapes, so he orders his Justaerian to open fire and eradicate the Wolves immediately. The last member of the squad notes that the last thing he sees is the smile on Abaddons face.

Nice! Gotta love Abaddon.

[Manchu warlord]

 

I thought they lost a lot of Marines fighting against the Alpha Legion?

 

 

They did, but they way Chris Wriaght wrote it didn't really convey the magnitude of their losses enough.  I was not satisfied with their casualties.  

 

 

 

The Wolves did.

 

Between Prospero, Alaxxes, Wolfsbane and Yarant, Im frankly surprised there was any Wolves left to persecute the Scouring, let alone have a Second Founding Successor. 

 

 

A Thousand Sons was the first Horus Heresy book (and the 4th BL book) I read, and I fell in love with Magus and his beautiful legion.  Back then, I was still a novice in WH40k - let alone - WH30k.  So, when I finally got to the battle of Prospero, I was very sad and heart broken, and I hated the Wolves.  I hoped that one day, justice will catch up to Leman Russ and his sons...  And that day is today.

 

However, I do not wish, in anyway, for the Space Wolves to all die off and be extinct, they are, after all, a formidable fighting force that excels at destroying the Imperium's foes.    

[MarineRaider]

 

 

 

To those who have read it, how well are the Sons of Horus portrayed? Does Haley get more into the Legion culture than McNeill? For all the effort he seems to have made, it never felt more than surface-level to me.

 

One Space Wolf squad that got separated during the assault decides to sell their lives and take out some of the Venegeful Spirits critical systems before they get taken out. They find themselves entering a large atmosphere recycler and decide that this is probably their best shot, and start to evaluate how to dismantle it. A light appears on a gangway above them and Abaddon and a squad of Justaerian appear out of nowhere. The Wolf squad leader challenges Abaddon to single combat, in which Abaddon turns down. Abaddon knows that Russ is being evacuated off the ship, and has no desire to fight in single combat whilst he escapes, so he orders his Justaerian to open fire and eradicate the Wolves immediately. The last member of the squad notes that the last thing he sees is the smile on Abaddons face.

Nice! Gotta love Abaddon.

 

I hate that fool with a bad haircut. I look forward to the day he is skinned alive by RG.

[MarineRaider]

 

 

I thought they lost a lot of Marines fighting against the Alpha Legion?

 

 

They did, but they way Chris Wriaght wrote it didn't really convey the magnitude of their losses enough.  I was not satisfied with their casualties.  

 

 

 

The Wolves did.

 

Between Prospero, Alaxxes, Wolfsbane and Yarant, Im frankly surprised there was any Wolves left to persecute the Scouring, let alone have a Second Founding Successor. 

 

 

A Thousand Sons was the first Horus Heresy book (and the 4th BL book) I read, and I fell in love with Magus and his beautiful legion.  Back then, I was still a novice in WH40k - let alone - WH30k.  So, when I finally got to the battle of Prospero, I was very sad and heart broken, and I hated the Wolves.  I hoped that one day, justice will catch up to Leman Russ and his sons...  And that day is today.

 

However, I do not wish, in anyway, for the Space Wolves to all die off and be extinct, they are, after all, a formidable fighting force that excels at destroying the Imperium's foes.    

 

I really liked the 1k Sons after that book. It made me hate Horus and the vermin of his putrid Legion even more. The Wolves did their job. BTW If you want to read a good short on your Legion redeeming themselves...THE ANCIENT AWAITS IS EXCELLENT.

[TheRealMcCagh]

Is there a way to get the Sons of the Emperor anthology? I've been wanting to get it since I first heard about it

[Manchu warlord]

 

I hate that fool with a bad haircut. I look forward to the day he is skinned alive by RG.

 

 

 

 

Commissar Ciaphas Cain will be the one that kills him...

 

 

 

I really liked the 1k Sons after that book. It made me hate Horus and the vermin of his putrid Legion even more. The Wolves did their job. BTW If you want to read a good short on your Legion redeeming themselves...THE ANCIENT AWAITS IS EXCELLENT.

 

 

 

The Thousand Sons is not "my" legion good sir...  But I appreciate your attempt of solace.

[m_r_parker]

Is there a way to get the Sons of the Emperor anthology? I've been wanting to get it since I first heard about it

As far as I’m aware,it’s either going to be via an event (such as the upcoming BL Live event) or there were apparently reports of it being available at WHW just after the HH Weekender a couple of months ago. It might be that that was to get rid of unsold stock (there were a lot there Sunday afternoon), or it might be a WHW exclusive for the year.

 

In short, if you can’t get there yourself, the you need a friend or you’re looking at eBay scalpers...

[Karthak]

 

 

To those who have read it, how well are the Sons of Horus portrayed? Does Haley get more into the Legion culture than McNeill? For all the effort he seems to have made, it never felt more than surface-level to me.

 

TBH there's barely any SoH presence within the book, which is surprising considering that the focus of the novel is around Russ squaring off against Horus. The most we see is during the assault on the Vengeful Spirit, but the focus of those scenes is from the perspective of the Space Wolves leading the assault and between the two Primarchs. The Lupercal are more prevalent on the flagship, and the Venegeful Spirit in particular has become more 'chaotic' in nature now. 

 

One part I did appreciate was Abaddon during that fight.

One Space Wolf squad that got separated during the assault decides to sell their lives and take out some of the Venegeful Spirits critical systems before they get taken out. They find themselves entering a large atmosphere recycler and decide that this is probably their best shot, and start to evaluate how to dismantle it. A light appears on a gangway above them and Abaddon and a squad of Justaerian appear out of nowhere. The Wolf squad leader challenges Abaddon to single combat, in which Abaddon turns down. Abaddon knows that Russ is being evacuated off the ship, and has no desire to fight in single combat whilst he escapes, so he orders his Justaerian to open fire and eradicate the Wolves immediately. The last member of the squad notes that the last thing he sees is the smile on Abaddons face.

 

I really hope we see Sigismund's last words come true one day.

[Petitioner's City]

 

 

It is good to hear the VI legion was dealt a massive blow to their numbers. Something that they really deserved, and was long over due.

I thought they lost a lot of Marines fighting against the Alpha Legion?

 

 

The Wolves did.

 

Between Prospero, Alaxxes, Wolfsbane and Yarant, Im frankly surprised there was any Wolves left to persecute the Scouring, let alone have a Second Founding Successor. 

 

 

Presumably the wolves on Fenris (and other worlds they might recruit from, unlikely as that may be from 40K lore, if not 30K lore*) were pumping out neophytes as quickly as possible, and perhaps there were some 'blackshield' wolves too made in this process? I know that isn't really mentioned in any source, but given every other legion seems to have massive 'make more astartes' actions going on throughout the heresy, it seems unlikely the VI weren't doing the same. 

 

*I have a wee question - if the VI geneseed took on certain Terrans to make the original legion, why couldn't it take on humans from elsewhere (i.e. not just Fenris)?

[bluntblade]

I think once the Canis Helix entered the equation, something changed fundamentally with the gene-seed.

[MarineRaider]

 

 

 

It is good to hear the VI legion was dealt a massive blow to their numbers. Something that they really deserved, and was long over due.

I thought they lost a lot of Marines fighting against the Alpha Legion?

 

 

The Wolves did.

 

Between Prospero, Alaxxes, Wolfsbane and Yarant, Im frankly surprised there was any Wolves left to persecute the Scouring, let alone have a Second Founding Successor. 

 

 

Presumably the wolves on Fenris (and other worlds they might recruit from, unlikely as that may be from 40K lore, if not 30K lore*) were pumping out neophytes as quickly as possible, and perhaps there were some 'blackshield' wolves too made in this process? I know that isn't really mentioned in any source, but given every other legion seems to have massive 'make more astartes' actions going on throughout the heresy, it seems unlikely the VI weren't doing the same. 

 

*I have a wee question - if the VI geneseed took on certain Terrans to make the original legion, why couldn't it take on humans from elsewhere (i.e. not just Fenris)?

 

Let me say that I agree with your thoughts that the Wolves could be adding numbers daily as the other Legions are.

 

With that said I have never understood the numbers of the HH, never. This book finally threw out numbers that at least gave the loyalist a chance. On another thread I read someone guessed there were at least 100k plus Ultramarines still in play, this book says that and more. Hundreds of Titans and millions of troops are arriving in system...this book confirms that Horus is not going to be able to walk into the Palace.

 

It also suggests/states that Dorn does not want a Titan battle on Terra as there are so many there would be nothing left to fight over.

 

What is wrong and continues to be wrong is the number of troops ( regular humans) the number could never have been what I have read before of 16M or so but in the billions. The planet has what? 20 Billion on it at this time...even in today's terms we have 7 billion plus we could muster nearly a Billion troops under arms. I would argue the number should be 5 Billion troops on the loyalist side. Dorn has had 7 years to fortify, in this book he even talks about Horus having to hit the greatest defensive shield ever erected ( paraphrasing)

 

Give me 35 million emplaced heavy Bolters and 25k rounds each and I am stopping ANY Legion as long as I have air and Titan support. Regular Human soldiers in mass even is you do the math of 100 or 1000 Space Marines per still gives the advantage to the defense in emplaced fortifications.

 

I bet we see 200k Imperial Fists and 125k White Scars as the numbers. I also dont think we will see swelled Traitor Space Marines because  1) Horus is a :cuss 2) Horus is a :cuss ( ok I just had to say it) 2) Purge 3) Broken Legions drawing forces 4) The one audio drama when Horus is listening to vox of his supporting Primarchs losing in various theaters and him thinking to himself he was stuck with the dregs 5) The attacks of the Dark Angels  6) The Alpha Legion being the AL...plus they have all the demons and the writers dont want to give them too much.

 

We know what happens but I think they are tweaking this story book by book.

[Lord_Caerolion]

According to Forge World, they did take on non-Fenrisians. Apparently the population of the planet was occasionally boosted by "conscripting" civilians from other planets, doing some memory-tinkering, and letting them free on Fenris to continue the life of viking that they now believe they'd always led ever since they were born on Fenris.

[Moonreaper666]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is good to hear the VI legion was dealt a massive blow to their numbers. Something that they really deserved, and was long over due.

I thought they lost a lot of Marines fighting against the Alpha Legion?

The Wolves did.

 

Between Prospero, Alaxxes, Wolfsbane and Yarant, Im frankly surprised there was any Wolves left to persecute the Scouring, let alone have a Second Founding Successor.

Presumably the wolves on Fenris (and other worlds they might recruit from, unlikely as that may be from 40K lore, if not 30K lore*) were pumping out neophytes as quickly as possible, and perhaps there were some 'blackshield' wolves too made in this process? I know that isn't really mentioned in any source, but given every other legion seems to have massive 'make more astartes' actions going on throughout the heresy, it seems unlikely the VI weren't doing the same.

 

*I have a wee question - if the VI geneseed took on certain Terrans to make the original legion, why couldn't it take on humans from elsewhere (i.e. not just Fenris)?

Let me say that I agree with your thoughts that the Wolves could be adding numbers daily as the other Legions are.

 

With that said I have never understood the numbers of the HH, never. This book finally threw out numbers that at least gave the loyalist a chance. On another thread I read someone guessed there were at least 100k plus Ultramarines still in play, this book says that and more. Hundreds of Titans and millions of troops are arriving in system...this book confirms that Horus is not going to be able to walk into the Palace.

 

It also suggests/states that Dorn does not want a Titan battle on Terra as there are so many there would be nothing left to fight over.

 

What is wrong and continues to be wrong is the number of troops ( regular humans) the number could never have been what I have read before of 16M or so but in the billions. The planet has what? 20 Billion on it at this time...even in today's terms we have 7 billion plus we could muster nearly a Billion troops under arms. I would argue the number should be 5 Billion troops on the loyalist side. Dorn has had 7 years to fortify, in this book he even talks about Horus having to hit the greatest defensive shield ever erected ( paraphrasing)

 

Give me 35 million emplaced heavy Bolters and 25k rounds each and I am stopping ANY Legion as long as I have air and Titan support. Regular Human soldiers in mass even is you do the math of 100 or 1000 Space Marines per still gives the advantage to the defense in emplaced fortifications.

 

I bet we see 200k Imperial Fists and 125k White Scars as the numbers. I also dont think we will see swelled Traitor Space Marines because 1) Horus is a :cuss 2) Horus is a :cuss ( ok I just had to say it) 2) Purge 3) Broken Legions drawing forces 4) The one audio drama when Horus is listening to vox of his supporting Primarchs losing in various theaters and him thinking to himself he was stuck with the dregs 5) The attacks of the Dark Angels 6) The Alpha Legion being the AL...plus they have all the demons and the writers dont want to give them too much.

 

We know what happens but I think they are tweaking this story book by book.

I thought there were hundreds of Billions living on Terra during the HH?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

[Indefragable]

...Porkins makes an appearance in Wolfsbane?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

...Porkins makes an appearance in Wolfsbane?

 

 

An attempt at humor while nudging the conversation to get back in topic. 

 

It's again wandered a bit.

[Manchu warlord]

Does the book mention the casualties and current strength of any of the traitor legions so far?

 

I hope my question isn't off topic Mr. Jarl Kjaran Coldheart.

[MarineRaider]

Does the book mention the casualties and current strength of any of the traitor legions so far?

 

I hope my question isn't off topic Mr. Jarl Kjaran Coldheart.

No, nothing specific.

 

Only Loyal numbers are revealed like 10k ships in orbit around Terra and hundreds of Titan coffin ships.

 

I was going to go back and look if there was ever mention of how many Luna Wolves were on the VS during the Crusade. I wondered because putting 30k plus Space Wolves on a single attack mission would seem to favor them unless Horus the despicable thing that he is has greatly expanded his personal guard.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I’ll have to re-read the book, or atleast the relevant areas, but I believe the story painted the Wolves being outnumbered once they boarded the Spirit.

Maybe that was just the Sons rallying to the Wolves boarding parties

[Indefragable]

That actually brings up an interesting point: localized superiority.

 

Russ' plan is actually not as crazy as it sounds when you consider the scope of the entire war.

 

The Sons of Horus, as are most Legions and forces, are split up operating in multiple theaters all over the place. Sure, there are main bodies for each group, but they tend to be the plurality of a force rather than the majority (i.e. the largest single contingent of a given force is 25% of the total rather than 51%). So, for that reason, if the purpose of Loken's recon team was to be able to track the Vengeful Spirit until it took a bathroom break (so to speak) so the Space Wolves could then pounce while it was relatively isolated, then it's actually not a terrible idea. An entire* Legion vs the command group of another actually favors the side with the entire* Legion.

 

Even in the microcosm of the battle itself, if such an idea were executed properly, then the SW should outnumber the SoH onboard the Vengeful Spirit itself. The outer void battle would be a lost cause for the SW fleet, but the sheer number of SW being dumped onto their single objective would increase the likelihood of success.

 

It's not a terrible idea in-and-of-itself....but from what has been told of this book so far, it's never explained or positioned that way in the story itself. So, I'll stop there before I give too much credit to BL :)

 

Where things could go wrong was underestimating the size of the command group escorting Horus (he is the "emperor of chaos" at this moment in time, after all), underestimating the size of forces the SW could muster, choosing the wrong time and place of attack, the Admiral Ackbar effect, or just the fog and chaos (lowercase "c") of battle.

 

*what's left of it

 

 

Trying to think of real world examples as comparison...

Hidden Content

Battle of Mogadishu, aka Black Hawk Down: even though the 140 American personnel were grossly outnumbered (something like 3000 to 140) in the city of Mogadishu itself, they vastly outnumbered the ~20 or so guards at the meeting they assaulted. So even though in the big picture (Spoiler alert...) they were outnumbered and outgunned, in the localized confines of the compound they attacked, their plan was sure to succeed based on #'s alone, let alone training, equipment, surprise, etc...

 

Operation Just Cause, aka the Invasion of Panama 1989.  US Navy SEALS were tasked with disabling means of President Noriega from escaping: a boat and an airfield. Though, again, in the big picture they were vastly outnumbered (noticing a theme here?) they had localized superiority when assaulting those two objectives.

 

NOTE: I'm decent with military history, but not an expert so please correct anything I may be wrong about

 

 

 

TL; DR: Russ taking his Legion and attempting to solo Horus is not as crazy an idea as it might sound

[Manchu warlord]

Kind of off topic, but at least it is about Leman Russ. 

 

I have to ask a huge favor.  In the novel Leman Russ: The Wolf King (the Primarch series one, not the HH novella), at the very end where He and the Lion met for the final time on Terra and dueled their last. 

Could someone kindly provide me with the quotes of that entire section - somehow, or even take pictures of the pages and upload it.  

I really need this information and do not have the book anywhere near me. 

 

Thank you,

..........

 

 

 

Please don't hit me Jarl Coldheart.