FAQ release today.

[Capt. Mytre]

So now you have to change your tactics then, yea? How is your situation any different than it was before when it comes to screening units? Here's an idea: take a dreadnought and stick it behind LoS cover. Give it astral aim and on the first turn decimate that screening unit. Then on your turn two, deepstrike your squad where the screening unit used to be and now you can attack and assault the squad on your turn two, just like before. 

 

It's absolutely rich that you suggest that your feedback hasn't been heard when Smite has not been changed for GK because of feedback. I understand that it's frustrating but you're not being objective here and it is clouding your judgement. I'm also seeing solutions to the problems you're claiming can't be solved.

 

The FAQ just came out, so give it a look over and adapt where necessary. Continue to send feedback. If that's too much for you, then I don't know what to tell you man. 

 

 

Because we need dreadnoughts to kill high armour/toughness models? We can't spare them on chaff. Hell, dreadnoughts aren't even point efficient in SM armies where they get chapter tactics, and we pay more for them and gain no chapter tactics or cheap reroll's for hit/wounds. Then you have the fact that even the best anti-infantry dreadnought can kill max 10 models with perfect rolls (average is less than 5 models killed, totally "decimated", right?) - a guard screen will just pull from the back and maintain the line where needed. You're also forgetting that the opponent can close any screen holes because there's a turn between shooting the gap and your next movement phase. Even in the ideal situation where somehow the opponent is brain dead and didn't fix the screen, you still only have 27% chance to make the charge on the turn you arrive, so it's more likely that you'll be stuck there till the third turn. Previously, it would be pretty much guaranteed on the second turn and we could put a lot of units down to burn more than one hole in the screen.

 

Further more, even if there's a hole in the screen, it can be 18" across and still deny DS.

 

Lastly, as I said before, we have been sending feedback for ages. Why hasn't the codex been updated, while every other army has? Why haven't they fixed the blatant cost mistakes?

 

It's insane that you're so ignorant to how GK play lol. But please, lecture me more on how GW can't do no wrong.

[Danarc]

I only want to add to Cqpt. Mytre perfect description that only one dreddy can use astral aim and that our dreddys can shot only with one among multi melta, twin lascannon and heavy plasma cannon and a Missile launcher. Not really an infantry killer. We could use the index version, but this underline how much our codex is poor.

[Corvus Fortis]

To answer your question as to why GSC are exempted, you have to look at their actual rules in regards to Cult Ambush. Cult Ambush is an unreliable dice roll that actually hinders the army more than other armies if they also had to wait until turn 2 to come in.

 

 

GC already several ways to affect Cult Ambush dice roll, and I am assured they will have even more when codex comes out.

 

So now you have to change your tactics then, yea? How is your situation any different than it was before when it comes to screening units? Here's an idea: take a dreadnought and stick it behind LoScover. Give it astral aim and on the first turn decimate that screening unit. Then on your turn two, deepstrike your squad where the screening unit used to be and now you can attack and assault the squad on your turn two, just like before. 

 

 

Change tactics to what? I personaly experimented a lot, other players experimented a lot. Alpha-strike was the only tactics that worked at least sometimes. If someone suggests good tactics, everyone will be happy to hear. 

 

Kill screen with dreadnought with astral aim? With what weapon? Double-shot twin lascannon? D6 shot missile launcher? 24'' assault cannon? D3 shots plasma cannon? Twin autocannon is only helpful option (that is banned on some events) and still 30-model conscript unit, scouts in cover with 2+ save and eldar rangers with "hit me on 6" don't care at all. 

[Shagah]

 

 Twin autocannon is only helpful option (that is banned on some events)

 

 

What possible justification could they have for banning this?

Last page of the Designers Commentary clearly allows this as an option using codex Dread and Index autocannon!

[Corvus Fortis]

They don't need justification. "Don't want - don't play" is their common arguement.

[Sweetcurse]

My turn I shoot screens with dread, them opponent turn he moves up other screen and I’m still screwed.

[TheMostGood]

 

 

 

 

Because we need dreadnoughts to kill high armour/toughness models? We can't spare them on chaff. Hell, dreadnoughts aren't even point efficient in SM armies where they get chapter tactics, and we pay more for them and gain no chapter tactics or cheap reroll's for hit/wounds. Then you have the fact that even the best anti-infantry dreadnought can kill max 10 models with perfect rolls (average is less than 5 models killed, totally "decimated", right?) - a guard screen will just pull from the back and maintain the line where needed. You're also forgetting that the opponent can close any screen holes because there's a turn between shooting the gap and your next movement phase. Even in the ideal situation where somehow the opponent is brain dead and didn't fix the screen, you still only have 27% chance to make the charge on the turn you arrive, so it's more likely that you'll be stuck there till the third turn. Previously, it would be pretty much guaranteed on the second turn and we could put a lot of units down to burn more than one hole in the screen.

 

Further more, even if there's a hole in the screen, it can be 18" across and still deny DS.

 

Lastly, as I said before, we have been sending feedback for ages. Why hasn't the codex been updated, while every other army has? Why haven't they fixed the blatant cost mistakes?

 

It's insane that you're so ignorant to how GK play lol. But please, lecture me more on how GW can't do no wrong.

 

 

I have not seen many lists that field dreadnoughts for the purposes of going after high armor/toughness models. You're also kind of hung up on the Dreadnought example. The basic idea I'm trying to get across is imagine how you have to deal with screening units before this change. Follow me? You said you would deepstrike your units turn one, and try to wipe out the screen with shooting. Which, to be clear, leaves your deep struck troops wide open because your only option is to charge whats left of the screen (if there is one) or sit there for a turn. 

 

I'm suggesting that other units in your army can take out the screen on their first turn. The dreadnought is just an example, but there are other units in your army that can fulfill such a role. Units like stormravens (with bolters), you can GoI a Land Raider Crusader, Interceptors can shunt across the board and use the psybolt ammo for powerful shooting on their turn (you also have more CP to work with too!), etc, etc. All this in conjunction with other units could take out that screen turn one, more than likely right? Follow me? 

 

Now on turn 2, your deepstrike troops no longer have to worry about that screen because it's probably gone at this point. Is this not the same position you would be in before the change? 

 

As far as feedback is concerned, you said that feedback doesn't help and does nothing, which is objectively false. The smite change has no effect on GK and that's a result of feedback clearly. 

 

You're clearly frustrated, which is understandable, but I think you're letting that get the better of you. Just so you know, not only is attacking the other person against forum rules, it's also a sign that you've lost the argument. 

[Danarc]

We don’t have antitamk except vehicle. This is because our dreddy have to be antitank.

You say use raven and crusader. Did u used that? I did.

Crusader with gate is suboptimal (because it is a crusader) and it is destroyed turn 1 leaving wide open the content.

Raven is great. Maybe we should play with 3 of them. But did you see that you only advice us to play SM stuff without good support? Raven and crusader can’t have reroll and both explode turn 1. If you play them together (I did) one will survive to turn 2. Then explode.

Ah interceptor will be killed too because 30 are too expansive (750 points) and with raven or crusader prevent us to deploy a batallion.

 

None of your advices could worth unfortunately.

 

Actually my only solution is try to hide.

[Capt. Mytre]

 

 

 

 

 

Because we need dreadnoughts to kill high armour/toughness models? We can't spare them on chaff. Hell, dreadnoughts aren't even point efficient in SM armies where they get chapter tactics, and we pay more for them and gain no chapter tactics or cheap reroll's for hit/wounds. Then you have the fact that even the best anti-infantry dreadnought can kill max 10 models with perfect rolls (average is less than 5 models killed, totally "decimated", right?) - a guard screen will just pull from the back and maintain the line where needed. You're also forgetting that the opponent can close any screen holes because there's a turn between shooting the gap and your next movement phase. Even in the ideal situation where somehow the opponent is brain dead and didn't fix the screen, you still only have 27% chance to make the charge on the turn you arrive, so it's more likely that you'll be stuck there till the third turn. Previously, it would be pretty much guaranteed on the second turn and we could put a lot of units down to burn more than one hole in the screen.

 

Further more, even if there's a hole in the screen, it can be 18" across and still deny DS.

 

Lastly, as I said before, we have been sending feedback for ages. Why hasn't the codex been updated, while every other army has? Why haven't they fixed the blatant cost mistakes?

 

It's insane that you're so ignorant to how GK play lol. But please, lecture me more on how GW can't do no wrong.

 

 

I have not seen many lists that field dreadnoughts for the purposes of going after high armor/toughness models. You're also kind of hung up on the Dreadnought example. The basic idea I'm trying to get across is imagine how you have to deal with screening units before this change. Follow me? You said you would deepstrike your units turn one, and try to wipe out the screen with shooting. Which, to be clear, leaves your deep struck troops wide open because your only option is to charge whats left of the screen (if there is one) or sit there for a turn. 

 

I'm suggesting that other units in your army can take out the screen on their first turn. The dreadnought is just an example, but there are other units in your army that can fulfill such a role. Units like stormravens (with bolters), you can GoI a Land Raider Crusader, Interceptors can shunt across the board and use the psybolt ammo for powerful shooting on their turn (you also have more CP to work with too!), etc, etc. All this in conjunction with other units could take out that screen turn one, more than likely right? Follow me? 

 

Now on turn 2, your deepstrike troops no longer have to worry about that screen because it's probably gone at this point. Is this not the same position you would be in before the change? 

 

As far as feedback is concerned, you said that feedback doesn't help and does nothing, which is objectively false. The smite change has no effect on GK and that's a result of feedback clearly. 

 

You're clearly frustrated, which is understandable, but I think you're letting that get the better of you. Just so you know, not only is attacking the other person against forum rules, it's also a sign that you've lost the argument. 

 

 

 

 

We have three options to deal with high armour/toughness models at range. Dreadnoughts, Landraiders and Stormravens (maybe the Stormtalon). That's it. Now we need to take those valuable units and make them anti-infantry? I'll just drop this 308 point crusader, using my once per turn GoI, right in front of the enemy line, where it will now fire less shots per point compared to a 210 point squad, and I can only do this once, then die the next turn because it's right in front of the enemy.

 

It's fine that the squad might die, it's only 210 points and it was pumping out 40 shots. You would have multiple of them land and clear the screen and pose a threat that needed to be dealt with. To achieve the same amount of shots is now vastly more expensive, no matter how you look at it. The army became more expensive to use, that's a nerf.

 

That's smite change amounts to us just not being nerfed. It wasn't a buff, it wasn't a nerf, it was a net zero change to GK. Oh gee, thanks GW! So kind of you not to nerf us!

 

Regardless, OUR feedback does nothing, which is objectively true. Tell me, why are TL plasma cannons still 60 points? I told them before CA that it makes no sense for them to cost that much, but it stayed the exact same. Many people on this forum sent letters asking for various changes, yet we received nothing.

[Bartali]

Regardless, OUR feedback does nothing, which is objectively true.

 

It's plain GW are only really listening to, and are balancing for, tournament players and more specifically ITC. Great if you're a tournament player, and I'm happy for them that GW are engaging with them. Sucks for the rest of us though.

Most major FAQ changes have come about due to issues that arose during tournament play, heck GW even admitted they delayed the March FAQ to take into account issues seen at Adepticon

[Danarc]

Exactly. And no one is playng GK in a tournment.

[Sweetcurse]

Well, my group is rather small anyway and I don’t do tourneys. So I’m the end I’ll play how I want and refuse to play these rules. If I ever do a tourney I’ll report in.