Spring FAQ is out and it's bad news

[Deadnaughty]

I saw people who did that yes. It was allowed by the rules but imo obviously not intended.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

If you watched the GW video on the FAQ, they want feedback. A lot of these rules are beta and they want to know what we think, get to it!: 40kfaq@gwplc.com

My thoughts, this [beta deep strike rule] is a reaction to Soup + BA alpha strike that was all over Adepticon.

Like Cult Ambush, mono-faction BA should be exempt because that is, what they are designed to do.

A lot of times waiting to deploy turn 2, or starting on the board is fine. But against gun lines or overwhelming shots it's a major disadvantage. If you don't get first turn, that's 2 turns of unmolested shooting you've got to eat.

My conclusion: mono-faction BA should be able to deploy as normal. If your army consists of any faction other than BA (ie Soup) then you deploy per the FAQ. This is what I'm writing to suggest.

[Paladin777]

I agree 100%, much like thousand Sons and gray knights are exempt from the smites ruling.

[brother_b]

My biggest issue is the inability to touch hidden "no-LOS needed" firing models on Turn 1. I've only suffered a handful of defeats since 8th dropped, and maybe one since our codex dropped. My hardest opponent has been fighting IG. The hidden manticore and basilisk, coupled with double shooting (and cheap) Leman Russ tanks has made the battles very hard to deal with. Oh yeah, he also has tons of orders and cheap infantry, but I digress.

 

At least he had to fear my captain and friends turn one. Now he doesn't need to worry at all turn one, which buys him another round of extremely powerful shooting. Non-LOS shooting should therefore suffer some sort of penalty the first turn they arrive, to reflect their arrival on the battlefield. I don't know, worth a try.

[Paladin777]

Can you use forlorn fury on more than one squad? I know that a strategem can only be used once per phase, but FF is used before the game begins and therefore out of phase. If you get first turn, that might be a good use of the extra CP from a battalion.

[Deathwalker]

Can you use forlorn fury on more than one squad? I know that a strategem can only be used once per phase, but FF is used before the game begins and therefore out of phase. If you get first turn, that might be a good use of the extra CP from a battalion.

Nope, FF is once per game, and it's not pre game, it's pre movement in the first battle phase (either yours or your opponents.

[Arkhanist]

Forlorn fury has the wording 'you can only use this stratagem once'; otherwise it could be used multiple times like strike from the shadows etc as you say.

[Panzer]

It even specifically says that you can use it only once. It's really just a poor mans infiltration restricted to Deathcompany.

[brother_b]

It even specifically says that you can use it only once. It's really just a poor mans infiltration restricted to Deathcomöany.

 

... that allows you to move before your movement phase, meaning if you luck out you can get deep into enemy lines, no?

 

I haven't used it yet.

[Indefragable]

If you watched the GW video on the FAQ, they want feedback. A lot of these rules are beta and they want to know what we think, get to it!: 40kfaq@gwplc.com

 

My thoughts, this [beta deep strike rule] is a reaction to Soup + BA alpha strike that was all over Adepticon.

 

Like Cult Ambush, mono-faction BA should be exempt because that is, what they are designed to do.

 

A lot of times waiting to deploy turn 2, or starting on the board is fine. But against gun lines or overwhelming shots it's a major disadvantage. If you don't get first turn, that's 2 turns of unmolested shooting you've got to eat.

 

My conclusion: mono-faction BA should be able to deploy as normal. If your army consists of any faction other than BA (ie Soup) then you deploy per the FAQ. This is what I'm writing to suggest.

 

That is an interesting idea that could buff mono-Faction builds: if your army contains an auxiliary faction, you are only allowed to use Strategems forth Auxiliary Faction(s) once per battle each.

 

Although that is sort of a punishing move, instead of an encouraging move. IMHO, I like the idea of encouraging moves (if all models in your army have the Blood Angels keyword, you get an extra bonus) rather than punishing moves (if your army has more than one Faction, then you have to sit in the corner for a turn).

[MeltaRange]

My biggest issue is the inability to touch hidden "no-LOS needed" firing models on Turn 1. I've only suffered a handful of defeats since 8th dropped, and maybe one since our codex dropped. My hardest opponent has been fighting IG. The hidden manticore and basilisk, coupled with double shooting (and cheap) Leman Russ tanks has made the battles very hard to deal with. Oh yeah, he also has tons of orders and cheap infantry, but I digress.

 

At least he had to fear my captain and friends turn one. Now he doesn't need to worry at all turn one, which buys him another round of extremely powerful shooting. Non-LOS shooting should therefore suffer some sort of penalty the first turn they arrive, to reflect their arrival on the battlefield. I don't know, worth a try.

 

So you've suffered only a handful of defeats since 8th, and one since the Codex drop...and you had a hard time vs. one single kind of Guard...but there's no issue at all with the BA codex?  I'm not trying to be a jerk here but doesn't that kind of sound a little ridiculous in context?  Not talking about you specifically brother_b, but the codex is dead talk is just maybe a biiiiit exaggerated.

[Panzer]

 

It even specifically says that you can use it only once. It's really just a poor mans infiltration restricted to Deathcompany.

 

... that allows you to move before your movement phase, meaning if you luck out you can get deep into enemy lines, no?

 

I haven't used it yet.

Usually deployment zones are at least 24“ away from each other. A jump pack dc unit can move 12“ with it and is then 12“ away from the opponents deployment zone. If you don't have jump packs even less. And it works ONLY on deathcompany. And you have to deploy the unit properly first so the opponent can see where it'll end up and react to it. And it costs 1CP more.

 

Strike from the Shadows and similar let you deploy a unit >9“ away from an enemy unit regardless of where it is (better if they are further away, worse against other infiltrators). And it can be anywhere on the board so the opponent can't know beforehand where the unit will be. And it can be used on any infantry unit. And it can be used multiple times.

 

The gap between those two Stratagems is rather big while both do basically the same thing anyway.

[Indefragable]

 

 

It even specifically says that you can use it only once. It's really just a poor mans infiltration restricted to Deathcompany.

... that allows you to move before your movement phase, meaning if you luck out you can get deep into enemy lines, no?

 

I haven't used it yet.

Usually deployment zones are at least 24“ away from each other. A jump pack dc unit can move 12“ with it and is then 12“ away from the opponents deployment zone. If you don't have jump packs even less. And it works ONLY on deathcompany. And you have to deploy the unit properly first so the opponent can see where it'll end up and react to it. And it costs 1CP more.

 

Strike from the Shadows and similar let you deploy a unit >9“ away from an enemy unit regardless of where it is (better if they are further away, worse against other infiltrators). And it can be anywhere on the board so the opponent can't know beforehand where the unit will be. And it can be used on any infantry unit. And it can be used multiple times.

 

The gap between those two Stratagems is rather big while both do basically the same thing anyway.

 

 

Not to mention the inability to get Support characters in range, since you can't DS say Lemartes, where you need him T1.

[Panzer]

Yeah that on top.

[toaae]

 

So you've suffered only a handful of defeats since 8th, and one since the Codex drop...and you had a hard time vs. one single kind of Guard...but there's no issue at all with the BA codex?  I'm not trying to be a jerk here but doesn't that kind of sound a little ridiculous in context?  Not talking about you specifically brother_b, but the codex is dead talk is just maybe a biiiiit exaggerated.

 

I've lost more than half my games since the codex dropped. Does my anecdote prove the codex is now dead? No. His point was despite playing in an area that he dominates in, his lack of answers to long range shooting is only going to be exacerbated by the beta rule. Those of us who don't stroll to easy victories are going to be seriously outmatched by a similar style of play.

[tychobi]

 

 

It didn't arrive though. It was already there

Will be interested to see the ruling on it. If WoF is exempt then we are awesome. Suppose that's why it's a beta. Won't be doing this until clarified

Explain to me why units that have used Upon Wings of Fire are able to use Descent of Angels then, since the requirement for that strategem is that "Use this Strategem before making a charge roll with a BLOOD ANGELS JUMP PACK unit from your army that was set up on the battlefield earlier this turn." I'm not sure what the difference between "set up on the battlefield" and "arrived" is supposed to be in your mind.

A unit set up (for a second time) through wings of fire did not "arrive" from reserves. Removal from the map does not mean put into reserves. Celestine resurrection does not involve reserves for instance. Unless it says you are "in reserve" specifically you are not in reserve.

[Morticon]

 

 

Also, strange side-note, i think some may be misinterpretting the jump movement rule - nothing has really changed - they say you dont measure horizontal distance, but go on to say you move along the diagonal - in short, you're not moving along the base, then up the perpendicular- you're moving along the hypotenuse. There's no change to this in gameplay. Its a simple clarification. 

It actually says you ignore the vertical distance, not the horizontal distance.

However then they clarify that you don't ignore it completely but rather measure diagonally. So yeah nothing really changed for FLY charges since diagonally to a unit 10" below and 1" away is basically the same as the 10" vertical distance anyway. Setting your unit up >9" away still requires a 9" charge, even if you placed them on top of a very high ruin. 

I disagree. It says that you measure diagonally from base-to-base to be within 12" to declare the charge, but the charge move ignores vertical distance. They are separate statements and measurements. Otherwise, the FLY isn't ignoring the vertical distance. That is the way that I read it. 

 

 

I just re-read that differentiation, and am now in agreement.  Nice buff for jumpy units. 

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

 

If you watched the GW video on the FAQ, they want feedback. A lot of these rules are beta and they want to know what we think, get to it!: 40kfaq@gwplc.com

 

My thoughts, this [beta deep strike rule] is a reaction to Soup + BA alpha strike that was all over Adepticon.

 

Like Cult Ambush, mono-faction BA should be exempt because that is, what they are designed to do.

 

A lot of times waiting to deploy turn 2, or starting on the board is fine. But against gun lines or overwhelming shots it's a major disadvantage. If you don't get first turn, that's 2 turns of unmolested shooting you've got to eat.

 

My conclusion: mono-faction BA should be able to deploy as normal. If your army consists of any faction other than BA (ie Soup) then you deploy per the FAQ. This is what I'm writing to suggest.

 

That is an interesting idea that could buff mono-Faction builds: if your army contains an auxiliary faction, you are only allowed to use Strategems forth Auxiliary Faction(s) once per battle each.

 

Although that is sort of a punishing move, instead of an encouraging move. IMHO, I like the idea of encouraging moves (if all models in your army have the Blood Angels keyword, you get an extra bonus) rather than punishing moves (if your army has more than one Faction, then you have to sit in the corner for a turn).

 

 

Unless I'm missing something obvious you're just talking about the wording right? ...it's clearly the reaction to Soup monstrosities (specifically from Adepticon) that caused the beta Deep Strike rule. But yeah "all models from the same one faction in the army" would work too.

 

Frankly, I think if you have endless wounds and endless shots from an IG ally for example - you can afford to wait a whole new turn before bring your threats onto the table. With mono-faction BA ...it really depends on the matchup, but mostly not so much.

[Ceril]

 

 

 

 

Why are BA worse in other departments? What's stopping them from Running Hellblasters, Sicaran Venators, etc?

Because we do not get things like ignores cover (IF) or -1 to hit outside 12" (RG).

No, but those don't get a unit arriving from reserve on turn two and charging into the enemy as effectively as BA.

But why take those shooty units as Blood Angels when you could fit them into a detachment as Salamanders or whatever, and get some kind of bonus to shooting?

 

Either we gimp ourselves for theme so we can run pure BA or throw theme out the window and take what is objectively better. Alternatively, they could not institute an unnecessary rule change, and we can continue to play a mid tier, but fluffy and thematic army.

 

It's not like BA players are running 0 units on the table. The restriction for half units was already there. Personally, I run three units of intercessors, a unit of aggressors and one of my jump characters to go along with the three scout units. I think that should fulfill any sort of fluff concern about having boots on the ground

Why play Blood Angels at all? Why not just buy a HQ and some Sanguinary Guard and run them as allies to another Imperium army?

 

If you chose to ignore the codex and FW index because another chapter might have advantages in other areas that's your call.

Go buy some Guard. Your comment indicates no love of lore or thematic play.

When it comes to the tabletop, I could not care less about lore and even less about thematic play. Why should I?

It does not make anyone a lesser player, customer or otherwise inferior how they want to play. But as a game it needs be balanced at the highest level, to enable serious tournaments.

[Xenith]

 

 

 

Also, strange side-note, i think some may be misinterpretting the jump movement rule - nothing has really changed - they say you dont measure horizontal distance, but go on to say you move along the diagonal - in short, you're not moving along the base, then up the perpendicular- you're moving along the hypotenuse. There's no change to this in gameplay. Its a simple clarification. 

It actually says you ignore the vertical distance, not the horizontal distance.

However then they clarify that you don't ignore it completely but rather measure diagonally. So yeah nothing really changed for FLY charges since diagonally to a unit 10" below and 1" away is basically the same as the 10" vertical distance anyway. Setting your unit up >9" away still requires a 9" charge, even if you placed them on top of a very high ruin. 

I disagree. It says that you measure diagonally from base-to-base to be within 12" to declare the charge, but the charge move ignores vertical distance. They are separate statements and measurements. Otherwise, the FLY isn't ignoring the vertical distance. That is the way that I read it. 

 

I just re-read that differentiation, and am now in agreement.  Nice buff for jumpy units. 

 

 

Yea, it's the same deal with Reivers - they have to come on more than 9" from the enemy measured diagonally, however ignore the vertical component of the vector with they charge with grapples. 

[Charlo]

So for example you could be at the base of a tall building...

 

Enemy is 9" above you, but you are 3" from the base of the building (which the enemy is at the same edge of but on a higher level).

 

So you'd only need a 3" charge?

[Panzer]

So for example you could be at the base of a tall building...

 

Enemy is 9" above you, but you are 3" from the base of the building (which the enemy is at the same edge of but on a higher level).

 

So you'd only need a 3" charge?

 

More or less, yes.

Actually in that example you probably wouldn't be able to charge at all since it's not unlikely that you couldn't place any of your models within 1" of the unit you're trying to charge (especially not without losing coherency). :P

 

Tho the other way it works perfectly fine. Your unit is on a tall building 9" above an enemy unit that is 3" away from the base of it. You only need a 2" charge to get within 1" of the enemy unit since you completely ignore the vertical 9" distance.

[Aegir_Einarsson]

Yes

[BluejayJunior]

If you watched the GW video on the FAQ, they want feedback. A lot of these rules are beta and they want to know what we think, get to it!: 40kfaq@gwplc.com

 

My thoughts, this [beta deep strike rule] is a reaction to Soup + BA alpha strike that was all over Adepticon.

 

Like Cult Ambush, mono-faction BA should be exempt because that is, what they are designed to do.

 

A lot of times waiting to deploy turn 2, or starting on the board is fine. But against gun lines or overwhelming shots it's a major disadvantage. If you don't get first turn, that's 2 turns of unmolested shooting you've got to eat.

 

My conclusion: mono-faction BA should be able to deploy as normal. If your army consists of any faction other than BA (ie Soup) then you deploy per the FAQ. This is what I'm writing to suggest.

Definitely provide feedback to the Beta Rules. But everyone remember that polite, constructive feedback based on actually playing with the rules will probably be more beneficial than anything combative or just theoryhammering about the rule. 

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

 

 

If you watched the GW video on the FAQ, they want feedback. A lot of these rules are beta and they want to know what we think, get to it!: 40kfaq@gwplc.com

 

My thoughts, this [beta deep strike rule] is a reaction to Soup + BA alpha strike that was all over Adepticon.

 

Like Cult Ambush, mono-faction BA should be exempt because that is, what they are designed to do.

 

A lot of times waiting to deploy turn 2, or starting on the board is fine. But against gun lines or overwhelming shots it's a major disadvantage. If you don't get first turn, that's 2 turns of unmolested shooting you've got to eat.

 

My conclusion: mono-faction BA should be able to deploy as normal. If your army consists of any faction other than BA (ie Soup) then you deploy per the FAQ. This is what I'm writing to suggest.

Definitely provide feedback to the Beta Rules. But everyone remember that polite, constructive feedback based on actually playing with the rules will probably be more beneficial than anything combative or just theoryhammering about the rule.

Hmmm don't think I've said anything combative here. And I've done TONS of actual playing. Granted not with the beta yet, but I've waited to DS on turn 2 many times... enough to know that sometimes it's smart and sometimes it's pure folly.

 

Without IG spam to tank wounds and create shots you can't always afford to eat an entire new round of shooting before having an answer. I know this from actual playing.