"BIG" FAQ thread... ie. we'll have to wait and see

[mjrwaud]

Unsurprisingly there wasn't anything in there for us although the general rule changes might have some implications... I'm especially curious about how the optional "Tactical Reserves" might impact our preferred alpha-strike play style? I guess it's all moot until we get our codex.

 

For reference from the FAQ: 

 

TACTICAL RESERVES

 

Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in Reserve,

etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements. When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game, at

least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined Power Ratings of all the units you set up on the

battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within Transports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your

army’s total Power Level, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere.

 

Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the

controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere). This does not apply to a Genestealer Cults

unit that is being set up according to the Cult Ambush ability, or to units that are set up after the first battle round has begun, but before the first turn

begins (such as those set up via the Forward Operatives or Strike From the Shadows Stratagems).

 

Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed.

[WAR]

Only other rule that seemed to affect us was the Soup not allowing us to take Inquisition in the same detachment but that is kinda ennh

[Moostick]

Yep, no more inquisitors or assassins in the same detachment, and no more slingshots with beacon on T1.

[allegedlynerdy]

That's a good question, would the Beacon Angelis be affected by this? Since they're not coming in from reserves, they're already on the table?

[Moostick]

Doesn't matter if your HQ can't beam in in the first place. :)

[Prot]

It’s funny this was the only army I still used pods in.

[mjrwaud]

It should still be noted that these are beta / suggested rules.

 

Anyhow, I can understand the reasoning behind the decision, decrease the importance of going first / siezing the initiative in turn one and decrease the impact of a game changing alpha-strike... but did they go too far by basically removing that as a viable strategy or does it go just far enough to divert armies away from using that as the only strategy?

Only time will tell, but I do hope the Deathwatch get something akin to the "exemption" that the genestealer cults do.

[Matt_149]

It's not completely removed as raven guard still get their strike from the shadows and I think admech have a version of that too?

[techsoldaten]

So do Alpha Legion. The thing is, all those tactics cost command points.

 

Of course, they also upped the command points available for Brigades and Battalions...

[Drizzt79]

Anyways deepstriking first turn for our “elite army” can be a suicide....in my experience its better to wait that the enemy opens up a bit first before deepstiking Inceptors and hellblasters with the beacon angelis

[Vel'Cona]

I'm holding off on panicking until these rules find their way out of Beta.  They'll definitely be immensely divisive for a time, though from a personal perspective I don't do "Alpha Strike" anyway so it doesn't affect my lists much.  For DW in particular, this means more boots on the ground if it goes "live", and, as Drizzt79 said, holding back DS units for more precise strikes.

[Mobius0288]

It should still be noted that these are beta / suggested rules.

 

Need to echo this guys. There's lots of Beta stuff going on here, not purely rule changes.

 

The battle brothers and tactical reserves are just in beta but are on their way to becoming actual rules, just like the previous 2 did. You guys need to drop some feedback to 40KFAQ@gwplc.com.

 

The tactical reserves really affects us since our army is really good at killing things, and not enough spare points for extra troops to run around the board and capture stuff. I still think this one is fair all around in my opinion but it does hurt a little bit. I use pods as well (watchmaster and combi plasma squad), now I'm going to have to rethink my strategy a little bit to ensure I don't get tabled on the first turn.

 

The battle brothers rule will really hit those of us that built up a lot of inquisition themed lists... now the only way to take inquisitors is purely through an inquisition detachment, or as an HQ to Sisters of Silence or Assassins.

 

And with assassins... I think they kind of brought it to where they should have been, though I did enjoy the extra CP with those small vanguard detachments. With the boost to battalion CPs, I honestly don't feel so bad taking an auxillary detachment for an assassin now. Especially since we still dont have a codex... but hey, we'll see how it feels once the codex does come out.

 

And now in spite of these changes, I'm bringing a Vanguard detachment with a unit of SoS, assassin and legion of the damned with an inquisitor HQ!!  

[Mobius0288]

Unrelated to DW, the battle brother rule really hurts imperial knight players or those who want to ally in an imperial knight / armiger.

[Moostick]

With the way the beta rule is, can we even mix an Inquisitor and Assassins/Sisters in the same detachment? They don't share any keyword except <Imperium>, so if we do that the entire army is no longer battle forged since <Imperium> no longer counts.

[allegedlynerdy]

Write in to GW. Tell them about the Inquisiton problem. I did and got a response back that says "they are considering changing some rules for Inquisiton to allow them in," if lots of people are writing in it'll push them to do so. My bet is that the "Inquisiton Authority" rule will expand to allow them to be battlebrothers in any Imperium Detachment.

[WAR]

Will Do.....

[Mobius0288]

With the way the beta rule is, can we even mix an Inquisitor and Assassins/Sisters in the same detachment? They don't share any keyword except <Imperium>, so if we do that the entire army is no longer battle forged since <Imperium> no longer counts.

 

Ya you're right actually. So that bit about legitimately taking an assassin as an auxiliary detachment is out the window. I can't even make 1 large single imperium detachment. They definitely have to add more wording to the rule, a lot of exceptions and more keywords between the appropriate armies. Way too much work in my opinion since all this spawned from soup lists in the tournament scenes. The tournament organizers need to restrict allies and lists, not GW. It hurts the rest of us who enjoy narrative and friendly matched play.

[mjrwaud]

 

With the way the beta rule is, can we even mix an Inquisitor and Assassins/Sisters in the same detachment? They don't share any keyword except <Imperium>, so if we do that the entire army is no longer battle forged since <Imperium> no longer counts.

 

Ya you're right actually. So that bit about legitimately taking an assassin as an auxiliary detachment is out the window. I can't even make 1 large single imperium detachment. They definitely have to add more wording to the rule, a lot of exceptions and more keywords between the appropriate armies. Way too much work in my opinion since all this spawned from soup lists in the tournament scenes. The tournament organizers need to restrict allies and lists, not GW. It hurts the rest of us who enjoy narrative and friendly matched play.

 

 

You should still be alright with that detachment (Inquisitor, Assassin, Sisters, Legion of the Damned).

 

Taken from revised FAQs Index Imperium 1 & 2 :

 

Imperium 1

 

Page 87 – Damned Legionnaires, Abilities

Add the following ability: ‘Saviours From Beyond: As long as your Warlord is from the Imperium, you can include this unit in a Vanguard Detachment even if that Detachment contains no HQ units. However, if you do so, that Detachment’s Command Benefits are changed to ‘None’.’

 

Imperium 2

 

Pages 110 and 111 – Prosecutors, Vigilators, Witchseekers and Null-Maiden Rhino, Abilities

Add the following ability: ‘Null Maidens: So long as your Warlord is from the Imperium, you can include this unit in a Vanguard Detachment even if that Detachment contains no HQ units. However, if you do so, that Detachment’s Command Benefits are changed to ‘None’.’

 

Pages 114 and 115 – Vindicare Assassin, Callidus Assassin, Eversor Assassin and Culexus Assassin, Abilities Add the following ability: ‘Execution Force: So long as your Warlord is from the Imperium, you can include this unit in a Vanguard Detachment even if that Detachment contains no HQ units. However, if you do so, that Detachment’s Command Benefits are changed to ‘None’.’

 

Hmmm... they're worded a bit weird... so is it alright to combine them?

[Moostick]

From my understanding, those special Vanguard detachments only benefit from not needing an HQ (which doesn't exist for them, making it impossible to begin with), and not that it supersedes the new Battle Brothers beta rule. (i.e., each of them still has to share a keyword other than Imperium)

 

Also no +1 CP.

[Mobius0288]

Ya the new vanguard rules for assassins, SoS and LotD seems ok. The problem arises only when you try to use the new beta rule. Without the beta rule I can still mix detachments.

 

- DW Battalion (+5)

 

- Imperium Vanguard (+1)

-- Inquisitor

-- DW Ven Dread

-- DW Aggressors

-- DW Reivers

 

- Special Vanguard (+0)

-- Assassin

-- Assassin

-- SoS

-- Null Maiden Rhino

 

- Imperium Vangaurd (+0)

-- Inquisitor

-- Assassin

-- DW Reivers

-- LotD

 

So the way it's worded now... no matter what, if you include one of those three units, the vanguard detachment becomes +0 CPs. You could potentially use a different type of detachment to maintain the point, but you're likely losing the battleforged rule for whatever faction you choose.

[Delta.Skies]

From my understanding, those special Vanguard detachments only benefit from not needing an HQ (which doesn't exist for them, making it impossible to begin with), and not that it supersedes the new Battle Brothers beta rule. (i.e., each of them still has to share a keyword other than Imperium)

 

Also no +1 CP.

The way I thought it was, since they threw in the even if it does not have an hq. That it would bypass the brothers rule. And if you took 3 assassins as your execution force (VANGUARD), then you would lose the CP.

 

Just a tad bit upsetting when your vanguard detachment was inquisitor / 2 acolyte squads / and a vindicate for character hunting.

 

I understood where they were coming from with the soup in one detachment, but they definitely decided not to get into the "mercenaries" much. Specially with the inquisitors not being a wild card in any other detachments.

[spacewatch]

 

From my understanding, those special Vanguard detachments only benefit from not needing an HQ (which doesn't exist for them, making it impossible to begin with), and not that it supersedes the new Battle Brothers beta rule. (i.e., each of them still has to share a keyword other than Imperium)

 

Also no +1 CP.

The way I thought it was, since they threw in the even if it does not have an hq. That it would bypass the brothers rule. And if you took 3 assassins as your execution force (VANGUARD), then you would lose the CP.

 

Just a tad bit upsetting when your vanguard detachment was inquisitor / 2 acolyte squads / and a vindicate for character hunting.

 

I understood where they were coming from with the soup in one detachment, but they definitely decided not to get into the "mercenaries" much. Specially with the inquisitors not being a wild card in any other detachments.

 

 

This very same Vanquard detachment in mind 'somebody' just week ago ordered fist ever Inquisitor model and couple of Acolytes (Scions) as a birthday present, but now ...haha "Yes, this is WM speaking. Inquisitor? Noup, we are so sorry but there's no room for an Inquisitor in this army, please call to the next fortress." Not a huge fan of this new rule  

[Delta.Skies]

 

 

 

From my understanding, those special Vanguard detachments only benefit from not needing an HQ (which doesn't exist for them, making it impossible to begin with), and not that it supersedes the new Battle Brothers beta rule. (i.e., each of them still has to share a keyword other than Imperium)

 

Also no +1 CP.

The way I thought it was, since they threw in the even if it does not have an hq. That it would bypass the brothers rule. And if you took 3 assassins as your execution force (VANGUARD), then you would lose the CP.

 

Just a tad bit upsetting when your vanguard detachment was inquisitor / 2 acolyte squads / and a vindicate for character hunting.

 

I understood where they were coming from with the soup in one detachment, but they definitely decided not to get into the "mercenaries" much. Specially with the inquisitors not being a wild card in any other detachments.

This very same Vanquard detachment in mind 'somebody' just week ago ordered fist ever Inquisitor model and couple of Acolytes (Scions) as a birthday present, but now ...haha "Yes, this is WM speaking. Inquisitor? Noup, we are so sorry but there's no room for an Inquisitor in this army, please call to the next fortress." Not a huge fan of this new rule

Lol ikr. Fluff wise my inquisitor has to be included. But if this pans out to be true I lose the vindicator. But get to spam acolytes in my vanguard detachment for my inquisitor. I'm curious though can I throw in any transport in his detachment from the imperium cause of his rule or do I have to toss it into another detachment so he could hop in there?

[WAR]

 

 

 

From my understanding, those special Vanguard detachments only benefit from not needing an HQ (which doesn't exist for them, making it impossible to begin with), and not that it supersedes the new Battle Brothers beta rule. (i.e., each of them still has to share a keyword other than Imperium)

 

Also no +1 CP.

The way I thought it was, since they threw in the even if it does not have an hq. That it would bypass the brothers rule. And if you took 3 assassins as your execution force (VANGUARD), then you would lose the CP.

 

Just a tad bit upsetting when your vanguard detachment was inquisitor / 2 acolyte squads / and a vindicate for character hunting.

 

I understood where they were coming from with the soup in one detachment, but they definitely decided not to get into the "mercenaries" much. Specially with the inquisitors not being a wild card in any other detachments.

This very same Vanquard detachment in mind 'somebody' just week ago ordered fist ever Inquisitor model and couple of Acolytes (Scions) as a birthday present, but now ...haha "Yes, this is WM speaking. Inquisitor? Noup, we are so sorry but there's no room for an Inquisitor in this army, please call to the next fortress." Not a huge fan of this new rule

Lol ikr. Fluff wise my inquisitor has to be included. But if this pans out to be true I lose the vindicator. But get to spam acolytes in my vanguard detachment for my inquisitor. I'm curious though can I throw in any transport in his detachment from the imperium cause of his rule or do I have to toss it into another detachment so he could hop in there?

 

 

I think he steals something from another detachment

[allegedlynerdy]

Unless you want the landraider Prometheus, he can take that