Imperator: Wrath of the Omnissiah

[Knockagh]

I really wanted to enjoy this book. Gav is usually my Jam, but Wrath of the Omnissiah is about as Grim Dark as 40k can get. To have certain characters very heavily influenced by real world nonsense was a shocking experience which completely pulled me out of the setting and blinded me to any other merit that could be given to the story being told. The nightmare reality of humanities dark rotting future, where the species is being assaulted on all galactic fronts by evil of every kind, is not where I go to be introduced to machines who are very specific about what gender pronoun is used to describe them

 

This is the first time I was compelled to delete an audiobook from my iTunes library post listen, it hope it will be the last.

I’m with you there, Im finding that extremely jarring and annoying but..... steering off that topic I’m finding the story fun.

[Xisor]

Jeez. It's like a bloody name.

 

Well. Perhaps not. Blessed, afterall, is the mind too small for doubt.

 

But 'real world nonsense'? The character had literally only made anything of a deal of it in their own narration. And then, at one interaction, casually exchanged notes with another and proceeded with the plot.

 

If that is too real world, I'm glad other real world farces like religion, romance, music, culture, politics, war, resource scarcity or a billion other things don't show up.

 

Imagine the sort of difficulty if those were dealt with.

 

----

 

I think it's a challenging read by the nature of the pronouns - but it's a compelling point. And arguably a little more detailed and telling about the character in question given that they could have adopted "it", "they, or indeed any other of numerous schemas for it.

 

But sure, it's real world nonsense.

[Sandlemad]

Currently working through this and while I want it to be the book Xizor got, it largely is coming off as a more-of-the-same generic mechanicus book. Decent claustrophobic worldbuilding, fairly flat characters... still Gav.

 

I see the broadly experimental elements - the pronouns*, the interesting form used for Exasas's noosphere dialogue - and it's good to see Gav or any BL author stretching their legs a bit but this doesn't feel anywhere near as radical as, say, Eye of Medusa. I'm only halfway through though. Xizor, am I missing something?

 

* Honestly, besides the long pedigree playing with pronouns has in scifi literature (Ursula LeGuin was doing this nearly 50 years ago and Ann Leckie fit it into a perfectly conventional space opera), no one has to take this as anything connected to 'real world nonsense'. If a senior techpriest is so divorced from their organic elements that they've got spider legs and a networked brain with its own subroutines, why not discard conventional 21st century pronouns? From a certain in-universe AdMech point of view, holding onto anything connected to a gender identity or biological sex is clearly unnecessary sentimental remnants to a fleshy past.

 

Not saying they're right to think that or that this is necessarily a 'good' portrayal of real-life pronoun use but it fits perfectly with the AdMech. So perfectly that it's made me cast some side-eye at other portrayals of techpriests that don't draw on this fairly obvious innovation.

[DarkChaplain]

I'm interested in how frequent that pronoun stuff pops up throughout. That kind of thing has really taken me out of stories over the past years (Heck, I wanted a Hippo Western, not repeatedly bang on about how all characters are super diverse and the straight male is universally hated! Give me a Hippo Western instead. Altogether too little Western in it...), so I'm wary of it cropping up in BL fiction too.

 

That being said, it makes a degree of sense for a Tech-Adept to be divorced from notions of gender. In the past, they've often just spoken about themselves in third person or refered to themselves by designation or title. It really comes down to how it is being handled by Gav here, but I'm unsure how willing I am to take the plunge, considering how much I've left piling up this year already.

[JH79]

Blessed, afterall, is the mind too small for doubt.

Dude, did you just quote Dawn of War? Awesome!   but please don't belittle me for having an opinion that goes against the grain!

 

If the inclusion of Gender Bending terminology was a natural evolution of the Mechanicus's characterisation, and yes it actually makes sense from a certain perspective that Gender / Humanity would be something they leave behind as they embrace the machine, then it would be easy for me to digest. But I don't believe it is. I can't find a way to get further into the topic without making this political and I've already had my wrist slapped by the mods so we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

I'm genuinely glad you enjoyed it & I hope others do too, but unlike many of Gav's other works this really isn't my Jam!

[WarriorFish]

Please stay on topic or your post will be removed, as demonstrated. The B&C's rules are very clear, and everyone here agreed to follow them - there are no excuses.

 

Removed posts are, as the name suggests, not available to read. To make (incorrect) assumptions on why they were removed adds nothing, nor does attempting to derailing a topic you profess to have an interest in. This shouldn't need explaining, and I hope this is the final say on the matter. Thanks.

[Xisor]

I think there's a vague possibility I just was *really* into the Adeptus Mechanicus stuff, but I doubt that accounts for everything. Personal preference too, but I also think there's a slight chance we might be brining *our* external politics to a book that happens to touch on these topics (albeit, I'd say, positively-neutrally - it doesn't offer commentary or make it central to the plot, so much as has some of that as factors for the characters to breathe life into them),and that might explain our differences of esteem on the book.

 

For example: the book isn't *about* pronouns.

 

It is about how Mars have forwarded accusations of tech-heresy about Cawl, and the distinctiveness of Metalica, and the various aspects of the Machine Cult and what it is to be part of that.

 

----

 

@Sandlemad: perhaps it's a different strokes/folks position, but I found the protagonists (Exasas & Ghelsa) very compelling. Not at all conventionally compelling (e.g. wise-cracking cynical mavericks who, damnit, get results).

 

That is:

- uncertain of this situation, but hugely certain (and competent) within a very restricted sphere.

- clear yet complex boundaries on what they will/won't do (Ghelsa's crisis of faith being more compelling and "alive"to me than all those present in the first dozen novels of the Horus Heresy put together)

- not the top of the pile. (Neither Ghelsa nor Exasas could be said to be 'in charge'. They're not First Captains, they're not Sergeant + Pal. Hell, had the scheme not been afoot: they'd have been ostensibly irrelevant, as characters, to the entire planetary engagement.)

 

But that said: reading it as a mystery thriller seems wrong. It's not convoluted spy-thriller, it's not even a whodunnit or a simple noir mystery. Its simpler than that: it's what happens to two unlikely people caught in an unlikely situation. (GavT described it as "The Hunt for the Red October in an Imperator" - but even that evokes a more pedestrian, and to me:uninteresting, story. It was the pitch though, rather than the novel itself. I'm glad we got what we got.)

 

But if those sorts of thing aren't of personal or passing interest, I can sort of see why it'd be difficult to digest and say "mmmmmm!" too.

 

----

 

I thought it was vastly superior to "Warlord", I might add. And broadly a less convoluted and less challenging (and less depressingly brutal) story than "The Eye of Medusa" (though personally I'd rate it a bit higher; I think the experimental SF-ness from Guymer touches a bit ahead of Gav there, but Gav made the Titan seem even more alive than Guymer made Medusa in the first book).

 

Different novels, though. Not in a handwavy way - the intent and scope and style and whatnot are very different. Between Warlord, Eye of Medusa and Imperator you get three very different Mechanicus stories.

 

I think it's pretty neat, though Warlord was the least intriguing.

 

----

 

I'll imagine JH97's insightful response instead. Hopefully I get your voice right. ;) (I joke: this is an obvious straw-man, but hopefully not an insulting one!)

 

That you'd contend that gender/identity politics is being shoehorned in, that mad Tumblr style xe/xir things don't add anything to the story.

 

I'd refute that by saying that they only detract because they're unusual. Politically, in the context of 40k, anyone being "pedantic" enough (unusual, in my experience, but not unwelcome) to be "petty" (care) about pronouns would perhaps likely end up in the Adeptus Mechanicus. (Exactly as DarkChaplain supposes, IMHO.)

 

(Moreover, as it's something a bit alien to me, I was massively glad of Gav taking the time to explore it in depth - a thing that, much as I loved the Nouns of Mars series, McNeill has never successfully done for my tastes. Not even *that* Servitor that crops up in the trilogy.)

 

As an aside: I've encountered loose conjectures about how the strength of "identity" politics might be tied up in ones position, so to speak, on the autistic spectrum. That is: a genuine and non-trivial emotional need to categorise things - especially in the context of relationships between things, not just on a personal level. Add to that a degree of self-awareness about socially acceptable behaviour, and you might find an interesting yet vexing middle-ground where people are passionate about something like pronouns, but also likely to step on toes in its application. (A good idea,poorly executed - one might say. And I can see how that might be the case with regards to Magos Exasas.)

 

But that's huge conjecture, on someone else's part, merely repeated by me. I'm no expert, afterall, but I am talking about things relevant to a book. More than that: this book in particular.

[Xisor]

Apologies for the double post, but it's a useful quick note of contrast/comparison to Imperator:

 

If the idea of a spy/mystery/thriller with the Adeptus Mechanicus is more your thing, I get the feeling that that's a not-bad description of "The Voice of Mars". I'm just about 50% through and my head's slightly spinning.

 

It's not quite happy-go-lucky, and die-hard Iron Hand fans seem to dislike it, but I'm loving it. It's a different beast to "Imperator: Wrath of the Omnissiah", so if you didn't like that (and are baffled that I did), then "The Voice of Mars" (and it's predecessor: "The Eye of Medusa") may be much more to your tastes.

 

Tighter and more focussed than "Nouns of Mars", but a bit more lively and intriguing than "Skitarius/Tech-Priest" and "Impetator/Warlord".

 

I'd be keen to see your thoughts over in that thread.

 

I'm tweeting my highlights/notes of them as I go through. Not comprehensive, but snippets you might enjoy! Usually a thread & hashtag per book.

 

Xis's twittery

[DukeLeto69]

All this debate has sold me on Gav Thorpe's book. However, I will wait for the paperback (my wallet breathes a sigh of relief).

[caladancid]

Apologies for the double post, but it's a useful quick note of contrast/comparison to Imperator:

 

If the idea of a spy/mystery/thriller with the Adeptus Mechanicus is more your thing, I get the feeling that that's a not-bad description of "The Voice of Mars". I'm just about 50% through and my head's slightly spinning.

 

It's not quite happy-go-lucky, and die-hard Iron Hand fans seem to dislike it, but I'm loving it. It's a different beast to "Imperator: Wrath of the Omnissiah", so if you didn't like that (and are baffled that I did), then "The Voice of Mars" (and it's predecessor: "The Eye of Medusa") may be much more to your tastes.

 

Tighter and more focussed than "Nouns of Mars", but a bit more lively and intriguing than "Skitarius/Tech-Priest" and "Impetator/Warlord".

 

I'd be keen to see your thoughts over in that thread.

 

I'm tweeting my highlights/notes of them as I go through. Not comprehensive, but snippets you might enjoy! Usually a thread & hashtag per book.

 

Xis's twittery

 

Slightly off-topic but I agree. Voice of Mars makes my head hurt a bit, in a good way.

[caladancid]

I'm interested in how frequent that pronoun stuff pops up throughout. That kind of thing has really taken me out of stories over the past years (Heck, I wanted a Hippo Western, not repeatedly bang on about how all characters are super diverse and the straight male is universally hated! Give me a Hippo Western instead. Altogether too little Western in it...), so I'm wary of it cropping up in BL fiction too.

 

That being said, it makes a degree of sense for a Tech-Adept to be divorced from notions of gender. In the past, they've often just spoken about themselves in third person or refered to themselves by designation or title. It really comes down to how it is being handled by Gav here, but I'm unsure how willing I am to take the plunge, considering how much I've left piling up this year already.

 

It pops up quite a bit.  Like I said, it is one of the main characters.

 

And yeah for sure the AdMech probably care quite little for the gender of themselves/others once they reach a certain point.  All I can say is to me, it was jarring and made the novel a chore to read.  I wish I had not purchased it.  There are far better AdMech and far better Titan novels out there, which should have those authors rewarded before you hit up this one.

[Heliomanes]

I liked the idea that the Magi would transcend the flesh in those ways as well. It's a good idea, but I think the execution leaves some things to be desired. Pity the author decided to specify that the character always felt that way though, as it makes it less about the vagaries of admech culture and the path to becoming one with the Omnissiah, and more about having the character being trans as a character trait. Which in my mind is less interesting, since it reveals less about the surrounding culture.

[Xisor]

I liked the idea that the Magi would transcend the flesh in those ways as well. It's a good idea, but I think the execution leaves some things to be desired. Pity the author decided to specify that the character always felt that way though, as it makes it less about the vagaries of admech culture and the path to becoming one with the Omnissiah, and more about having the character being trans as a character trait. Which in my mind is less interesting, since it reveals less about the surrounding culture.

More about the character though. There's always that sort of choice in fiction though - setting traits to neatly fit plot points, or to illuminate the world, or to deepen the character. I'm not sure they're as frequently aligned as we'd like to believe - rather, if those details don't all line up, it's often "good enough" that an author doesn't draw attention to the fact.

 

(And it's undeniable that Gav *did* draw attention.)

 

On purely personal preference, I quite like those more (meta-literary-structurally-whatevs) disordered stories. I think it adds a sense of organic variety, that things don't neatly line up.

 

Like, in Star Wars, Luke blowing up the Death Star wouldn't be quite as easily stomached if he'd kept the name Starkiller rather than being redrafted to Skywalker. A bit too unsubtle.

 

It's not an exact parallel, but you might see what I'm getting at. :)

[Heliomanes]

Your point on the choice is fair enough. I still think it was a poor choice to make - since it removes the focus on exploring facets of admech culture, and it's inclusion as a character trait that has been a lasting part of the character is never explored beyond that one reference. So it's a net loss for the novel in it's current form. If they explored the character beyond the stereotypical depiction of a tech priest, with the added trait then I'd perhaps end up agreeing with you. Or if they just didn't mention it, so it was left up to us to speculate how the choice fit between the individual character's nature, life and choices on the one hand, and the cultures and organization it is integrated in. Sadly, this is what I meant by the characters coming off as cardboard cutouts for me. I just got the impression that they fit a stereotype like hand in glove, and then traits like these are just put on top of them without being explored properly in lieu of an interesting personality or some actual characteristics. Not that I pine for the quippy renegade that gets results, though.

I know I've gone on and on about it in this thread, but have you read "Titanicus", Xisor? You seem to be as hopelessly enamored of nerdy Admech stuff as I am, so I just can't help myself but keep insisting on it.

[Xisor]

I suppose I enjoyed being thoroughly inside Exas' head for it. Spinning sub personalities, agonising(ish) over assumptions (I really enjoyed the outcome in that arc), the insight into the things ve actually enjoy about their life (obsessing over their theorem, to the dismissal/scorn of the Collegia moderati, and even vis own Tech-Priest peers and rivals) etc.

 

I suppose I saw it as building on a cardboard cut out, rather than merely another in a parade of such things. But that's fairly subjective too - and I can totally understand why the sheer *variety* given in "Forges of Mars" rates really highly for people.

 

----

 

Re:"Titanicus" - absolutely. I loved it to bits. I really enjoyed "Mechanicum" at the time too, and I loved how you could see (compared to each other's proceeding works) the benefits of Dan & Graham's collaborations on the two books. (And more:how excited I was when Graham returned to that in "Forges of Mars".)

 

In some respects, one of Dan's overwhelming strengths as an author is his almost unsurpassed ability to *evoke* a sense of a fully fledged world, by given a small set of fairly specific details.

 

I think it's most easily seen in things like "Titanicus", the "Eisenhorn" stories, and "Prospero Burns" - little collections of detail or creativity that, without much interconnection, build a sense of a living world. (Sometimes that works against him: with the early Ghosts & Eisenhorn stories feeling slightly disjoint from the rest of 40k - so real or aluve in fact that you can viscerally feel they're quite different they are from other books of the time.)

 

In contrast, I think, Graham McNeill (for example) usually manages to evoke really amazing details and vistas that are art in their own right, but ones that are all clustered together and nevertheless 2D stage scenery. Impressive and allow for powerful story-telling, but it's a different vibe from the more 'living' detail feel I get elsewhere.

 

I think, with Guymer and Gav Thorpe's latest Ad Mech stuff, I still find it hugely in that former Abnett-y place. (Perhaps I hadn't imagined much of the interior life of a Titan before, beyond the Collegia seniors, so I'm more heavily impressed by the background itself. I wouldn't put that past me.)

 

With David Annandale's Warlord on the otherhand, I felt we got very much into the territory of a Graham McNeill style 2D stage backdrop (with a not-amazing play being done on it). I still enjoyed a lot of the book, but it was a lot less to sing and dance (or even criticise) about than in the other novels discussed. Then throw in "The Binary Succession" to the mix, perhaps the finest bit of audio story I've listened to. Strange to juxtapose it with "Warlord", but for one being a bit pedestrian and the other being mind-blowing, it's a bit of a surprise! :D

 

In that way, if I squint my eyes and imagine slightly, I can see how other folk might look at Ghelsa and Exasas and see something not too exciting or remarkable, boring even. But I'm too enamoured by the other bits (though I think a lot of that gets into spoiler territory - which it might be worth chatting about too).

 

For example: I loved the culmination of Ghelsa's faith arc, and Exasas' logical tangles. But I think that would be worth doing when I can properly work the spoiler tags.

 

It might not be sufficient to win anyone to my perspective, but hopefully it'd shine light on some of the bits I've been vague about.

[1ncarnadine]

Just finished this today. Gave this a shot on Audible, because 1) I'm always a sucker for giant robots and 2) I really wanted to see for myself where I would land with the experimental elements. I'm also someone who didn't care for Honour to the Dead at all. I came out surprised at how much I enjoyed Imperator! John Banks makes the pronouns sound natural enough, so it didn't bother me. I also think the noosphere banter worked especially well with the audio, because it's basically written as an audio script to begin with. Surprisingly, they used a distortion effect for it so that those sections are audibly distinct. Neat to see them pushing their audio with more experimental elements, as with the triple actor audio from Watchers of the Throne.

I don't think I have much to add that isn't just echoing the other reviews here. I think I tend towards aligning with Xisor's read and really loved the slice of life in a Titan elements, but I do have criticisms. I did find the more human characters and the antagonists tended towards cardboard, and the overarching plot is a bit predictable. The guy who's mean to everyone is the villain?? Who knew? But if you've read enough of Gav, this shouldn't be a surprise. Like Lorgar, this is the kind of story where Gav has a lot of space to play to his strengths, namely world-building, religious elements, and inhuman characters. It's definitely a good thing that half the story is told through Exasas. The most human moments were through the most physically inhuman character, oddly enough, and I felt the end of his arc was handled well.

Probably not for everyone. Again, others have said it, but it's not a Titan combat story nor is it a great thriller/mystery with a puzzle to unravel. It's a pretty straight forward character drama told through relatively unique perspectives, and I think it did a pretty alright job at being that.

[Knockagh]

Have to confess as much as I was enjoying the story I’ve given up reading this book a few weeks ago. The pronoun thing just got too annoying. I will try again some day when I get to the bottom of my to read pile. Might be a while...

A real pitty, good story ruined by something (I consider) stupid and annoying

[nagashnee]

I did not like this book, has nothing to with pronouns and lots to do with the plot. From the start we are given little to no view of the tactical situation of this campaign, this would not be a issue if the wider theatre did not constantly come into the story in major ways. 

 

We start with the orbital situation, but Nagashsnee you say this is  a book a bout TITANS who cares about space? Titans mostly, orbital bombardment is a major threat to any of the large/slow titans, and here we have the largest and slowest of them all. So WHY in the emperors name does the legion march into a field under a hostile sky? I dont know, the book doesn't know, i dont think the Princeps knew either.  Explanations exist, some of them make sense ( barely), we know the Imperium has orbital assets as who got the titan there? Who protected their landings? Who is ferrying the forces? Heck the book specifically goes into the fact that ships in this post gathering storm age are a precious commodity. So completely ignoring the space front while directly bringing it into the narrative is a HUGE no no for me.  Either like many BL books you pretend space doesn't exist, or like the better BL books you DEAL WITH IT. The fact that the author is one of the original BFG creators makes this triple the sin.

 

Moving in we have the fact that while traitor elements in the legion exist the princeps is not one of them, making every idiot decision of the Imperator frankly hard to swallow, it is either incompetence which is hard to believe as this aint the imperial guard, you are not just handed a Imperator because your family has connections and sent off in charge of a battle group. We are consonantly told how old and battle hardened the titans are, yet in every book about titans they die faster then redshirts. Makes one wonder how any of them got to be 8k old. Walking into the storm is particularly bad. 

 

Then we come to the phosphex and where i lost hope in the book, where did the traitors get such a rare and powerful stockpile of weapons? 'Many vaults once lost to the warp have been rediscovered since the awakening of the great rift'.  I am sorry what? Does the Imperium keep weapon vaults in orbit and they get caught up in warp storms? Does the book mean lost forge worlds/ armoury worlds that have been cut off for years? If so 1) Being cut off doesn't mean you go traitor, 2) even if you do that still doesnt tell me the reader how it got to THIS world. The 'explanation' irks me so much, it made me put the book and just go golly gee did i just read. 

 

 

Its a shame as other have said, the parts inside the titan were pretty great, the internal world building was done well, if this book was just a whole story about life inside a titan legion/titan it could have been great. Instead it dissolves into a super predictable plot ( gee i wonder which 1 evil acting character is the traitor), hyper idiot titan action, yes let us march our forces under orbital bombardment, then under fortress bombardment, and then split up and look for clues....because....because the plot says so that's why! And it just wouldn't be a bl titan book if absurd numbers of the hyper rare/hard to make/old/irreplaceable war machines did not die horrible pointless deaths. 

[Roomsky]

Nearly done this one, figure I may as well get the colossal, room-consuming elephant out of the way so the eventual thoughts post isn't totally consumed.

 

The caveat is that I'm listening to this one rather than reading it, perhaps the vis/ve is more distracting in the written word, I cannot comment. I will admit I wasn't sure to think of it at first, but it became natural enough after a while (except for the humorous time when 'vis ability' came across as 'visibility'). Now, I'm not, ten foot poll or no, touching other's opinions on the matter, or similar choices in other works or universes. I am, however, going to argue against the point that it has no place in 40k.

 

I don't think I've ever encountered an expanded universe fandom that appreciates being dismissed as shallow power fantasy or empty genre fiction. Speculative fiction 40k is not, to be sure, and despite all the tripe some of my absolute favorite books have come out of Black Library, and I would argue there are several works, series or otherwise, that push beyond the bolter porn and actually communicate something interesting, meaningful, or even layered. 

 

Sure, I can see disliking the intrusion of contemporary issues entering 40k if one does indeed hold that, from the worst to the best, all of BL is schlock. But is there not an utter :cussstorm brewing in response to Warhammer Adventures, at the merest suggestion that 40k may be reducible to something acceptable for children? If one is to argue a settings inherent maturity, they should scarcely be dismissing an element simply because it's something people have to deal with in contemporary society. There were, and still are, vast swathes of the fanbase irate about people being anything but white in 40k, or women doing anything of consequence while dressed in something other than a battle-corset.

 

Is 40k not science fiction? Is it not, to some degree, for mature readers? I will happily argue that the advent of gender neutral pronouns is more than at home in a setting with a cult of cyborgs who strive with every power grab to strip away more of the flesh, and its weaknesses and associations, whenever possible. 

 

And again, before citing how it clashes with the draconian horror of the setting, as does racial diversity and the representation of both sexes in the ongoing carnage. I for one enjoy more black people in the setting beyond those space marines who were totes white guys whose skin just turned black.

 

And no, this doesn't mean the book is above criticism. I honestly find it a mediocre (if laudably ambitious) mess.

[Knockagh]

‘There were, and still are, vast swathes of the fanbase irate about people being anything but white in 40k, or women doing anything of consequence while dressed in something other than a battle-corset.’

If there are people like this within our hobby (and I’m sure there are) I’ve never come across one, on a forum or in person and I’m playing nearly 30 years. In fact I’ve found quite the opposite

[Lord_Caerolion]

ADB has written a few times about the hate mail and trolling he's received for several of his characters, given that several have been female (Lotara, Octavia), space-middle-eastern(Thousand Sons, Word Bearers)/space-African (Celestial Lions, Firefist and several other World Eaters), or both (Cyrene).

[DarkChaplain]

Yeah, but he's also an outspoken public figure and has addressed the inclusion of female characters as a conscious effort after Cadian Blood numerous times, which inadvertendly attracts trolls online. Heck, just see what happens when something out of the box ends up on 4chan, or some creator utters a controversial opinion.
 
I'm not trying to say those fools (to put it mildly) don't exists, but those emails and what not are basically the peak of idiocy you can come across online, most of them don't give a damn one way or another and do it solely to get a rise out of people. If they can't be bothered to construct legitimate criticisms, I would simply discount them as voices without any real influence. I would certainly not consider them representative of any even halfway significant chunk of the audience.

[shandwen]

To me the pronoun issue seems to be an issue as it would ha've made more sense to switch to it/that as a way of separating from humanity rather than droppimy in another layer of humanity with new pronouns. It seems like an attempt to bring social justice in because of that.

I could even see the mechanicum heavily embracing gender norms thru a belief of "fill your role" where lower tier emails would be expected to provide the next generation for their manpower/servator needs...

Honestly it doesn't seem to fit.

[DukeLeto69]

Guess we are in danger of being off topic but...

 

I actually find it hard to believe that 38,000 years from now a human race that has colonised the galaxy would actually split down into current ethnic typographies.

 

I believe the physical nature of any humans would be impacted (and evolve) according to the conditions of the planet/environment in which they live (for thousands of years).

 

So hot worlds with high UV would have darker skinned people. Low gravity worlds would have thinner/taller people, heavy gravity worlds would have squat/robust/strong (see what I did there). Voidfarers would have greyish pallid skin. Worlds with low light levels might see the evolution of bigger eyes.

 

I would also expect inter-racial breeding between different ethnic groups would create increasingly less distinct white/black people.

 

So any idiot who is remotely upset about there being women or people of colour in W40k needs to have a rethink!

[bluntblade]

Just look at the WE centurion who ends up leading the resistance on Isstvan III. #greylivesmattertotheEmperor