Unit of the Week: Kabalite Warriors

[Vel'Cona]

Now that we’ve all had some time to digest the new DE codex and all its evil, spike-riddled goodness, I feel it’s time to begin our discussion of our units in detail.  We’ll begin with the classic core unit, the Kabalite Warrior.  Listed below are some quick concepts/points of interest to get us started:

 

Good:

+ Relatively inexpensive

+ Poisoned shooting ignores high Toughness

+ Fast moving

+ Good anti-armour options (Blasters, Dark Lances)

+ Kabal Obsessions

+ Power From Pain

+ Multiple transport/mobility options (Raider, Venom, Webway Portal Strategem, etc.)

 

Bad:

- Squishy (T3 and 5+ Save)

- Poisoned weapons don’t scale “down” well vs. T4 or less, and are relatively useless vs. Vehicles

- Poor hitting power in melee (other than Sybarite)

 

Overall, I find Kabalite Warriors are not the de facto Troops choice they once were not because they’re bad (far from it) but because other choices (Wyches and Wracks) have become more competitive in their own right.  Instead, KW are now the “shooty” Infantry for the DE, boasting the best generic ranged weapon for a Troops choice in the codex and easily the most useful Special and Heavy Weapon options.  Classic Raider clown cars remain a solid blend of mobility and firepower and Kabal Obsessions/Strategems have only made this a more credible choice, though MSU KW in Venoms is another option that offers reduced cost and more shots (at the price of smaller squad sizes and no room for Characters).

 

So how have your Kabalite Warriors done since the codex landed?  Any cool/interesting build ideas?  Has anyone completely supplanted KWs with other choices in their recent lists?

[WarriorFish]

I'm thinking that as they're like Guardsmen on the defensive it's best to somewhat treat them as such - so a good number is essential. More so if you're not mounting them. It's on the attack that is the big difference, with their poison weapons however I think they're similar to Guardsmen in that they want to be hunting infantry mostly. Maybe a squad or two to hang back with some heavier shooting but mainly closing in for the kill while retaining mobility and keeping costs down. That poison can turn a hand to Monsters is a happy bonus.

 

As mentioned I may be coming at this from more of a Guard angle so I'd be very interested to hear in other ideas and experiences as I intent to take a reasonable number in my forces (supplemented by Wyches for the numbers)

[micahwc]

They do really well against Nurgle Daemons and I imagine they would do well against the larger Tyranid species as well. Both armies consist entirely of non-vehicles and both have a lot of high toughness targets whose prime advantage is negated by poison. Nurgle daemons is almost a perfect match up as they don't shoot well, they are high toughness (which doesn't matter to poison), and they move slowly.

 

The way I see it there are only a few ways to run them. Either 5 warriors with a special weapon, 6-9 warriors with 1 special weapon and room for an Archon (plus guests such as Ssylth or a succubus) in the transport, 10 warriors with all the weapons, or 20 for a large blob. The 20 warrior blob has been effective for me as long as I can find a way to mitigate morale.

 

I prefer blasters for the special weapons and dark lances for the heavy weapons. No math to back it up, just my experiences in the game so far.

 

As far as "poor hitting power in melee", that depends on what you are fighting. Against things like guard they can compare favorably when you factor in power from pain and their obsession bonus. They are not as good as wytches, but they can be better than other GEQ troop choices.

[Vel'Cona]

As far as "poor hitting power in melee", that depends on what you are fighting. Against things like guard they can compare favorably when you factor in power from pain and their obsession bonus. They are not as good as wytches, but they can be better than other GEQ troop choices.

 

Fair enough!  I'd argue that they do hit on solid dice, but the low number of attacks and lack of melee options beyond the Sybarite leaves them wanting compared to the rest of the 'dex.  That being said, versus notoriously poor melee combatants like Guard and Tau, they'd likely be able to mop up provided no characters are involved.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I'm thinking that as they're like Guardsmen on the defensive it's best to somewhat treat them as such - so a good number is essential. More so if you're not mounting them. It's on the attack that is the big difference, with their poison weapons however I think they're similar to Guardsmen in that they want to be hunting infantry mostly. Maybe a squad or two to hang back with some heavier shooting but mainly closing in for the kill while retaining mobility and keeping costs down. That poison can turn a hand to Monsters is a happy bonus.

 

As mentioned I may be coming at this from more of a Guard angle so I'd be very interested to hear in other ideas and experiences as I intent to take a reasonable number in my forces (supplemented by Wyches for the numbers)

 

I don't think comparing kabalite warriors to guard is a good comparison. They are both t3, +5 save, but that's about where the comparison ends. The real big difference between how you use kabalites compared to guard is guardsmen need to be on the ground, in most cases without a transport so they can benefit from officer orders, while kabalite warriors you almost always want a transport because you're granting them a 6-10 t5 wound shield essentially that also doubles, or even triples their movement if their ride advances. Can you run kabalites on foot? Yes, I think you can now but still kabalites are so good in our now fairly cheap transports. A gunboat of 10 warriors in a raider is just so solid now. 

 

Couple general thoughts, the biggest change with kabalites is that a 5 man squad with a blaster use to be the only real optimal build pre-codex. Now though, I feel like they have so many more options. Shredders are now sweet, I generally run a ratio of 3:1 blaster to shredder squads, but you could certainly take more shredders. Also because of how obsessions works, the only character you can take to fill the hq is an archon, which results in you generally taking 1 archon per 3 kabalite units. What that means is if you stick with only 5 man kabalite units, that's 15 warriors per archon. I'd don't like that ratio at all, so I take 2 10 man units now so that I can get around 20-30 kabaites for a single archon. Also on special weapons, dark lance/splinter cannon are probably not as optimal as our special weapons since they are generally more expensive and less accurate in the case of the dark lance, but I'm actually really liking taking a splinter cannon so far. Yes technically more warrior bodies may be better but if I'm taking a 10 man in a raider there's no more room for more warriors, so a splinter cannon will add more shots for a reasonable cost. 

 

As for obsessions, black heart is pretty useless for kabalites, since PfP generally is better on assault units. Kabalite vehicles benefit a lot more. All the other three on the other hand are solid. I've only tried flayed skull so far and man do I love it. Yes they lose all the benefits when their transport dies, but the reroll 1s and ignore cover is just always going to be handy. Ignores cover in particular helps let those splinter rifle shots get through when a unit is hiding in ruins. 

[Calyptra]

I have long felt that Kabalites are one of the best units in the game.

 

They have accurate shooting and carry rifles that can reliably hurt anything that isn't a vehicle. You can give a unit of ten a couple blasters, and now they can do serious damage to tanks, without sacrificing their accuracy for moving. Basically, Kabalites can reliably hurt pretty much anything on the table.

 

There are conversations to be had about fancy weapon options, Venoms or Raiders, and Sybarites, but on a fundamental level, Kabalites are an incredibly effective unit.

[micahwc]

I have played several armies since 8th edition was released. I'd argue that the Kabbalites are one of, if not the, best basic troop choices out of the armies I've played. Chaos space marines have a better stat line but cost more and are mostly a tax. Chaos cultists have the same stat line but don't hurt things as easily, and they are only 1 point less expensive. They are used mostly just to deny deep strike and to add ablative bodies. Guard infantry are great units and when supported with orders they can hurt many things through sheer volume of fire; but they really need the external support to shine whereas Kabalites don't absolutely become worthless if their isn't an archon nearby.

 

While bolters, autoguns, and lasguns are marginally better against vehicles, splinter rifles are better against higher toughness living targets; and living targets outnumber vehicle targets by a wide margin.

 

Guard Infantry, Chaos marines, and Chaos Cultists have more varied special and heavy weapons available, but the choices Kabbalite warriors have are by no means limiting. Kabbalite warriors get more special/heavy weapons per 10 man squad than most other infantry in the game; and can be taken in groups of as little as 5. Guard Infantry (and Chaos cultists) have to come in groups of 10, they get 1 special and 1 heavy weapon max.

[Jacques Corbin]

Unless you expect to charge, all a Sybarite needs is a Splinter Rifle. Unless it is a blob of 20, and even then survivors are not guaranteed, odds are slim the Sybarite will survive his unit receiving a charge to swing back with an Agonizer or Power Sword. The Blast Pistol is better, because if he does survive until your shooting phase, then that darklight to the face will be a nasty surprise.

 

I am actually running a blob of 20 on foot, Blasters and Dark Lances, with Obsidian Rose obsession. Can't wait to see how that works out. The "failure is not an option" stratagem will be risky, but we'll worth it. By risky, I mean that I will nominate my Blasters and Dark Lances to flee due to morale, use the stratagem, and they get to shoot again, and if something dies, nobody flees! All I need are just legal targets...

[Withershadow]

The PGLs are a nice addition, whether for the stratagem or to support melee combats.

 

Regarding abusing Failure is Not an Option, I think it may be better with an aggressive webway unit with Shredders. Those shredders are a lot more likely to kill something rather than the blasters.

[Vel'Cona]

Unless you expect to charge, all a Sybarite needs is a Splinter Rifle.

 

Inclined to agree, here.  I added that to the unit discussion for the sake of completeness, but I've never really had much luck with splashed melee upgrades on Sybarites.  The Blast Pistol has an argument to be made, but it's remarkably expensive for something you may still never get a chance to use.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I'd skip on the blast pistol, you rarely want to get warriors up that close and it's an expensive upgrade for something you'll never use as you said. 

 

Phantasm grenade launcher on the other hand, now that's an upgrade I try and fit onto as many sybarites as possible. The -1LD thing is nice, but even more useful is the opportunity to use the torment grenade stratagem, handy little mortal wound ability in a pinch. Well worth the 3 pts.