Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Besides, Sanguinius was not above challenging or trying to alter fate...his action with the Night Haunter shows that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5088745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Curze gave Sanguinius the chance to kill him, but Sanguinius stopped the blow in mid-air out of pity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5088787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagoth Ur Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 I would love to see Abnett or French write this tome. I can totally see Sangy taking out Horus too but not needing any outside help. Of course it has to be a hard fought battle. I would love it for a nice retcon and Sangy is entombed in a Primarch dreadnaught suit. Gosh that would be so BAeques cool !!! /tearsofjoy I'd rather they bring my favorite primarch back through xeno-heresy than.....this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5088789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Curze gave Sanguinius the chance to kill him, but Sanguinius stopped the blow in mid-air out of pity. I’m actually talking the end of Ruinstorm (I believe it was, the Imp Secundus arc bleeds together to me) where Sanguinius both forgives and then utterly screws Curze I would love to see Abnett or French write this tome. I can totally see Sangy taking out Horus too but not needing any outside help. Of course it has to be a hard fought battle. I would love it for a nice retcon and Sangy is entombed in a Primarch dreadnaught suit. Gosh that would be so BAeques cool !!! /tearsofjoy I'd rather they bring my favorite primarch back through xeno-heresy than.....this. I’d rather Bile brings back Sangy than the above Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5088808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Curze gave Sanguinius the chance to kill him, but Sanguinius stopped the blow in mid-air out of pity.I’m actually talking the end of Ruinstorm (I believe it was, the Imp Secundus arc bleeds together to me) where Sanguinius both forgives and then utterly screws Curze What are you talking about? Sanguinius literally says “He might forgive you. I don’t. You cannot have that redemption. I won’t let you.” How is that forgiving Curze? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5088813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Curze gave Sanguinius the chance to kill him, but Sanguinius stopped the blow in mid-air out of pity.I’m actually talking the end of Ruinstorm (I believe it was, the Imp Secundus arc bleeds together to me) where Sanguinius both forgives and then utterly screws Curze What are you talking about? Sanguinius literally says “He might forgive you. I don’t. You cannot have that redemption. I won’t let you.” How is that forgiving Curze?Because I misremembered that. I thought one of the others said that.My bad. The rest of the post still stands Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5088816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 It was actually kind of sadistic of Sanguinius. He gives Curze a glimmer of hope only to take it away. I was hoping that would he the start of Angel-of-Wrath Sanguinius. But then in what little we get in Wolfsbane he is back to his aloof/brooding self Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5088902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 When Sangy forgave Curze it was the ultimate insult. Bully. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5088909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Again though, Black Orange, he doesn't. He specifically says he doesn't forgive him. Sanguinius is basically getting his revenge by putting Curze's faith in the immutability of the future by saying "ok, either you're right, and this won't matter, or the future is uncertain, in which case you can enjoy spending eternity floating through the void". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5088914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Meh to each his own but gotta say I disagree with you on this one. Curze looked like a real try hard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5088921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 What's there to interpret differently? The direct quote is "He (the Emperor) might forgive you. I do not." How can you possibly interpret that as "but actually I do"? He wants to see Curze punished, one way or another. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5088943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 What's there to interpret differently? The direct quote is "He (the Emperor) might forgive you. I do not." How can you possibly interpret that as "but actually I do"? He wants to see Curze punished, one way or another. while it seems cut and dry, and maybe 90% of people would share the same interpretation...words are imperfect and there can be many different interpretations. i think we can allow blood orange his not the primarch dreadnaught thing though., never that lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5088951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I didn't realize this is actually just a meme thread. Carry on if you must but yeah... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5088980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 What's there to interpret differently? The direct quote is "He (the Emperor) might forgive you. I do not." How can you possibly interpret that as "but actually I do"? He wants to see Curze punished, one way or another. while it seems cut and dry, and maybe 90% of people would share the same interpretation...words are imperfect and there can be many different interpretations. i think we can allow blood orange his not the primarch dreadnaught thing though., never that lol If the words "I don't (forgive you)" can be 'imperfectly' interpreted as "I forgive you", then any hope of having an actual conversation is gone. Still, I think it's better to say that we shouldn't feed the troll. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5088989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 What's there to interpret differently? The direct quote is "He (the Emperor) might forgive you. I do not." How can you possibly interpret that as "but actually I do"? He wants to see Curze punished, one way or another. while it seems cut and dry, and maybe 90% of people would share the same interpretation...words are imperfect and there can be many different interpretations. i think we can allow blood orange his not the primarch dreadnaught thing though., never that lol If the words "I don't (forgive you)" can be 'imperfectly' interpreted as "I forgive you", then any hope of having an actual conversation is gone. Still, I think it's better to say that we shouldn't feed the troll. forgetting translational activity, postmodernism, hermeneutics, semiotics and all that bunk (which has gotten a cold reception around these parts previously) but as someone who works in film and tv (a medium that relies entirely on "conversation"), i've found that any line can be loaded with subtext. "i love you " can mean a million things including the obvious as well as its opposite "i don't forgive you" can work the same way. not saying it applies here, but it can. its not up to me to decide on someone's else's pov Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5088999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Well, let's take the rest of the speech by Sanguinius then. "He might forgive you. I don't. You cannot have that redemption. I won't let you. Rest certain in your destiny. You will have it. I am not taking you to Father. I'm not going to kill you. I am going to jettison your coffin into the void. The assassin will find you when the time comes. It may be millennia, Konrad. You claim destiny can't be altered. So be it. Yours will be as you say." I definitely agree that the written word can have different meanings than what is explicitly written down. This isn't that sort of situation, though. We're told what's going through Sanguinius' head as this conversation is going on, rather than leaving any such ideas ambiguous, as such "bunk" loves relying on and playing with. This isn't just a single line that can be inflected, delivered, or given body language during the delivery to give alternate meanings. It shows Sanguinius thinking "Horus was not Curze. What he had been was too magnificent to be lost utterly", which means that Sanguinius believes that Curze therefore is "lost utterly". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5089023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 cool man. if you wanna argue objective truth, that’s not a conversation for me.quoting a primarch has zero effect, since i don’t disagree. i also don’t disagree with other interpretationsmadness? maybebut most of that bunk actually argues that intentional ambiguity of text has little to do with personal interpretation. that’s the point Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5089051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Lunkhead Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 ........ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5089786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 The problem with Sanguinius and the BA is that their defining novel is Fear to Tread... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5096152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Is that the first one by Swallow ? I love the scene where MCFiston becomes consumed by the Black Rage - he is firing laser beams out his eyes, rapid firing his plasma pistol and slicing-dicing Word Bearers to death with his big ole force sword... so much AWESOME !!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5096551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I don't even remember that...it was that forgettable Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5097181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 It was epic and one of my fav scenes from all the 40k novels I’ve read. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5097626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marine7312000 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Fear to Tread is a 30k novel though. I'm not sure what book Black Orange is referencing but its definitely not in the 30k one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5097822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogWelder Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 In my opinion, Sanguinius is a rather boring Primarch from what I've read. To me what makes a Primarch interesting is not how many powerful enemies he defeated in combat (they're Primarchs, they're supposed to do that) but rather his personality, ideology and contributions towards humanity as a species. So far Sanguinius has shown very little of this. He's blandly kind to everyone, has no real ideology or opinion about the future of humanity and has done nothing of note outside combat. In the books he's very passive during conversations with his brothers and feels like a side character to the fierce clash of intriguing and contrasting personalities I look forward to and enjoy in the Horus Heresy books. There was this scene in Angels of Caliban that illustrated this perfectly. Guilliman and the Lion were discussing the different kinds of architecture of their respective planets and it was a really cool insight into each other's mentality and the culture they were raised in. Guilliman described his idea of an expansive, bustling megapolis full of trade commerce and technology while the Lion insisted on a more rugged collection of fortress-cities surrounded by walls and linked to each other via underground networks. It was a really cool depiction of the outlook of the Statesman versus that of the Knight/General. However Sanguinius just keeps quiet the whole time and then defers the two others when his turn in the conversation comes up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5097890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 To be fair, his entire characterisation in the Imperium Secundus arc just seems to be "aloof and detached", nothing else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346586-sanguinius-and-his-flaws-or-otherwise/page/9/#findComment-5097924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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