Codex: DW next week

[Moostick]

 

 

 

 

After my bout of laughter, my preliminary assessment is that some are going to be pretty good, some are going to be pretty bad. This is the assumption that there will be NO point adjustments to Primaris models. 

 

 

Just promise me one thing... don't go too crazy when/if your assumption there is wrong.

 

 

Hey now, I have to base my comments on something! I actually expect some adjustments (whether it be Primaris up, or Veterans way down). Also, no promises. 

 

I'm seeing a repeat of when DW first was released. A lot of new players coming in (myself included) thinking everything looks sweet without looking deep into it, only to be disappointed. This happened with FCs and Corvus at the start of 8th as well; so many players that don't understand our army well raved on about them when they're mediocre at best.

 

Edit: I think we're coming down to what we feared. They're Goating Primaris in with old rules (SIA, same KT structure), and not doing what needs to be done to fix our army, and that is revamping our existing rules which just don't work.

[Macabre Slanneshi Prince]

I think the optimal 10 man squad for me will be 5 Intercessors, 4 Hellblasters, and an Inceptor. 10 abalative wounds that can deal damage on their own, and close combat protection by being able to fall back.

[TheFinisher4Ever]

So here's a question, what is the benefit of taking an Aggressors in your killteam when Primaris have almost no heavy weapons? Is it really solely for the Heavy Plasma Incinerator?

[Aothaine]

 

 

 

I'm seeing a repeat of when DW first was released. A lot of new players coming in thinking everything looks sweet without looking deep into it, only to be disappointed. This happened with FCs and Corvus at the start of 8th as well; so many players that don't understand our army well raved on about them when they're mediocre at best.

 

 

I was part of that crowd back in 2016. Boy was that a huge disappointment. But this GW is way different than the GW that released our codex back in 2016. I have high hopes and know that most issues will be resolved through FAQs and Chapter Approved. I really like GW's goal of working with the community to fix errors. But we do have to realize that not everything we think is an issue is actually an issue. Most people, when looking at their codex, want it to work well and be strong. But GW has to balance rules that are unique against other rules and make sure that ruling one way for a rule does not break another rule in another codex. It is easy to look at one codex and say how things need to be, but actually balancing these rules is a huge task and I commend them for trying.

 

I sound like I work for GW lol! I don't. I just want them to keep working with the community. If we keep raising pitchforks and torches at everything they do they might stop.

[Danny Cyanide]

So here's a question, what is the benefit of taking an Aggressors in your killteam when Primaris have almost no heavy weapons? Is it really solely for the Heavy Plasma Incinerator?

Stalker Bolt rifles! 36" AP-2 before SIA

[Charlo]

 

So here's a question, what is the benefit of taking an Aggressors in your killteam when Primaris have almost no heavy weapons? Is it really solely for the Heavy Plasma Incinerator?

Stalker Bolt rifles! 36" AP-2 before SIA

Oh NEPTUNE.

[Stargate_wars]

So here's a question, what is the benefit of taking an Aggressors in your killteam when Primaris have almost no heavy weapons? Is it really solely for the Heavy Plasma Incinerator?

If goggle translat is correct - fire heavy weapons and assault weapons with no deductions with an aggressor at his side.

[Moostick]

Aothaine, you are one of the most positive people I know here as always (which really is great, no sarcasm). I agree we should work together with GW, but my personal feeling is that, with DW at least, they aren't working with or listening to us. Every "new" thing so far is a repeat, but with Primaris. Currently, there is no suggestion that they tried to really get into redoing the Veterans and existing rules.

 

As it stands, it's a money grab with Primaris. But I will acknowledge this is still early and they may surprise me in the coming weeks. I will be right up there with you if they do.

 

Or if they bring in Cypher as a Blackshield. I'll be happy with that.

[Macabre Slanneshi Prince]

Why would Cypher be a Blackshield? He's not a Deathwatch member!

 

Auto Bolt Rifles and Assault Incinerators without advance penalties sound good.

[TheFinisher4Ever]

The advance and shoot with no penalties is definitely a good thing. It gives plasma Inceptors some much-needed extra threat range. You'll really have to leverage it to get the most out of it. I'm thinking 5 intercessors with Auto-bolt rifles, 4 plasma Inceptors, and a Bolter Aggressor. Keep a captain nearby for rerolls and that looks pretty solid.

[skeletoro]

I find myself wondering how feasable the easy to build primaris models will be for deathwatch. 

[Boyadventurer]

I find myself wondering how feasable the easy to build primaris models will be for deathwatch. 

Do you mean as far as converting? I've sliced off many a molded on shoulderpad in my day, it's no big deal.

[Aothaine]

I find myself wondering how feasable the easy to build primaris models will be for deathwatch. 

 

You can also just paint the Deathwatch stuff onto the model. But they will release a primaris box for Deathwatch with the Deathwatch shoulder pads in them.

 

 

[Aothaine]

Aothaine, you are one of the most positive people I know here as always (which really is great, no sarcasm). I agree we should work together with GW, but my personal feeling is that, with DW at least, they aren't working with or listening to us. Every "new" thing so far is a repeat, but with Primaris. Currently, there is no suggestion that they tried to really get into redoing the Veterans and existing rules.

 

As it stands, it's a money grab with Primaris. But I will acknowledge this is still early and they may surprise me in the coming weeks. I will be right up there with you if they do.

 

Or if they bring in Cypher as a Blackshield. I'll be happy with that.

 

Oppps! Forgot to reply here. I hear ya but it is still so early. We really should reserve judgement until after the FAQ for the codex is released. Even then it is better to provide GW constructive feedback rather than just bemoaning about an issue. Be sure to contact them via their facebook page. They do listen, even if they don't agree 100% of the time.

[Macabre Slanneshi Prince]

 

 

I find myself wondering how feasable the easy to build primaris models will be for deathwatch.

You can also just paint the Deathwatch stuff onto the model. But they will release a primaris box for Deathwatch with the Deathwatch shoulder pads in them.

 

 

I think we're not getting anything in particular. Deathwatch kits haven't appeared on any of the new order lists, just the codex. The old sprue works for us regardless.

[Boyadventurer]

^^ and datacards of course

[GrinNfool]

So intercessors seem like they will be very useful.  I have often fielded a 5 man vet squad w/ stalkers in cover somewhere with good results.  Its just not a worth while target for heavy fire.  Now intercessors can basically do that and be even more survivable.  With primaris getting SIA would expect them to be 2-3 points more than other chapters primaris, since all guns for intercessors will benefit.  For normal vets to be viable now as more than just a token squad though will need to see some cost reductions and hopefully the SIA cost moved from the base vet cost to the cost of any weapon that benefits from SIA.  Can see this potentially being workable though, 2-3 intercessor squads for ranged fire, maybe an apoth w/ em just to make them annoying, and using vet squads for the priority targets via DS, corvus, etc.  Certainly wont do the vet squads any favors in target priority though since the most powerful shooting will come from the squishiest squad.  Eh heres hoping, though not gonna get too excited yet.

[ashc]

I think the Primaris will continue to fulfil roles similar to what they do for codex: space marines et al now, which is to provide a solid back or midfield support and some specialist firepower where required.

 

- Intercessors are going to make for a solid back or midfield firebase with SIA

 

- Hellblasters are the standout unit for primaris anyway, still great with deathwatch - but how are you going to get them to where they are needed?

 

- Aggressors, whilst not benefitting from SIA can still pump out a disgusting number of shots per model used as they are now, and provide novel utility attached to intercessors equipped with the alternative bolt rifles if that German post is translated correctly; move and fire penalties removed plus some countercharge defence.

 

- Inceptors are still a deep strike tool to hit where needed or generally be a nuisance, again even without SIA on the bolters. In intercessors, falling back and firing could be incredibly useful if you see them getting bogged down a lot.

 

- Reivers with SIA makes them really interesting - carbines and pistols become significantly more lethal and being able to deep strike in where needed is very useful. I think their bonus in an intercessor squad is less useful, however.

 

The mission tactics fluidity and the bonuses applied across the army sound great, as well as some of the previews of the strategems so far.

 

We still have some big questions though.

 

- Character support - captains and watchmasters are still there, and primaris chaplains and apothecaries must be with mention of the absolver pistol and SIA - but what about others? Techmarine? Ancient? primaris?

 

- Delivery system for kill teams - these guys are meant to be like a bullet to the head of the enemy - surgical strike teams that rip out the heart of your opponent, so what are the big ideas for actually getting them to where they need to be?

 

- Points costs - make or break the army.

[Ishagu]

Deathwatch Primaris and Reivers are going to be excellent on the tabletop. They are good units already, but will become even more effective.

 

Hellblasters and Inceptors are already strong, they don't really need any additions of rules to function.

 

I'll always recommend the Repulsor Tank - excellent vehicle when taken in multiples, and now safe from those pesky turn one Alpha Strikes.

[Muckwarrior]

The Corvus Blackstar is THE poster vehicle for the Deathwatch. There really needs to be a rule that Primaris models may utilize the Blackstar.

[Ishagu]

The Corvus Blackstar is THE poster vehicle for the Deathwatch. There really needs to be a rule that Primaris models may utilize the Blackstar.

Yes I'm 100% behind this. Same should apply to all the larger transports, but not the Rhino chassis.

[Drizzt79]

The Repulsor is quite repulsive.....We need the Primaris in Corvus....and btw a solid point reduction....and/or POTMS

 

Lets see, but keep in mind that GW want to sell Repulsors....and that is not making me much optimistic in regard

[Ishagu]

Repulsor looks amazing in person.

[Irbis]

I'll always recommend the Repulsor Tank - excellent vehicle when taken in multiples, and now safe from those pesky turn one Alpha Strikes.

 

Multiples? What are you playing, 3000 points games?

 

 

Yes I'm 100% behind this. Same should apply to all the larger transports, but not the Rhino chassis.

 

Why? If Rhino can fit 10 squatmarines, there is no excuse for it to not be able to take at least 5 Primaris, seeing they are only tiny bit bigger. Really, the whole 'no vehicles for you' stinks of the same genius writing that gutted options in both DW books in 7th edition...

[Ishagu]

If I can fit two Repulsors with all upgrades, each filled with Hellblasters and Reivers/Intercessors, a Sicaran Venator with Las Cannons and Guilliman, as well as finding points for other units and upgraded HQs in a 2k list - I think you'll be able to manage. The Repulsor lives by the rule of Two.

 

One is None, two is Some.

 

 

The Rhino Chassis vehicles are ugly and small, and look wrong on the tabletop as Primaris Marines are almost the same height as the actual tank. I get you can argue its abstract but they really don't fit the look of the newer models.