Prot's crazy ITC idea in light of the Codex release

[Prot]

So some may know I got talked into playing in an ITC event in under a month.

 

Yes, under a month. I have 'go to' armies on standby. But the tournament is only 1750, giving me a chance at trying something different.

 

I don't have ally my Deathwatch anymore, but a good number of it. As crazy as this sounds, I wonder if there would be any validity in even trying 1750, with or without allies, for said tournament?

 

I do have Grey Knights painted: Voldus, GMNDK's, Draigo, a Stormraven, a GK Dreadnought, etc.

 

I do have a Watchmaster, Libby, TermieLibby, and various load outs of DW ready, including a Venerable Dread. A multi loadout  Razorback, and 2 Drop Pods. (also a smattering of various loaded up Termies - melta fists, assault cannons, etc. Various Vanguard Vets too)

 

Built but needing paint is: My Corvus Blackstar, lots of troops, bikers (not a fan of though). LOTS of Primaris.

 

Do you guys think I should just keep it in the box and wait out the codex, or would this be a good opportunity to get some of my DW painted up for a tournament? 

 

Is there a valid list in there somewhere? (remember this is ITC). I have no idea for DW if there's anything competitive in the combo I'm talking about.

[Charlo]

Do it.

 

Even if it's only a middling codex the surprise would be enough!

 

Plus DW is a great bit of hobby :)

[Prot]

Do it.

 

Even if it's only a middling codex the surprise would be enough!

 

Plus DW is a great bit of hobby

 

I need a lot of help.... with the list.... and my mental deficiencies. What am I setting myself up for? 

[Vel'Cona]

Knowing what we know now, I'd hold off on doing ANYTHING until the codex drops.  I mean, other than painting some basics.  Since we don't know how/what/where Primaris Marines will be included specifically, it's extremely risky to start pulling them together now.

[Prot]

Knowing what we know now, I'd hold off on doing ANYTHING until the codex drops.  I mean, other than painting some basics.  Since we don't know how/what/where Primaris Marines will be included specifically, it's extremely risky to start pulling them together now.

 

I think you're right.

 

Besides that... last night I'm playing an ITC test game (I'm rotating multiple armies for testing purposes) and I did a Deathwatch inventory and as much as I have is a state of assembly, it's a big mess. And so much of it just plain does not work....

[Mobius0288]

I would definitely give the codex a read when it comes before completely committing. If the tournament forces you to play pre-codex DW, I would consider a space marine battalion and a DW patrol. Use the space marines to get some (cheaper) bodies, maybe some anti-armor... and use DW purely as a wild card. What comes to mind are things like:

 

- Watchmaster + Kill Team in drop pod (combi-plasma)

- Blackstar + HQ + 1-2 Kill Teams (Frags or close combat) **putting all your eggs in one basket, disembark ASAP)

- Watch Captain w/ Jump Pack plus Hellblasters (spearhead detachment?)

- Primaris Captain + long range Kill Team (stalkers and missiles)

 

If you do commit to an entire DW force, some competitive auto-includes for me would be:

- A couple intercessors units (to help make a battalion)

- At least 1 unit of Hellblasters or Inceptors w/ plasma

- At least 1 Blackstar

- At least 1 Ven Dread or Razorback with a twin-lascannon

- If taking a Kill Team, I always consider a transport for non primaris to protect them (rhino, blackstar, etc.)

 

** As of this post, I saw an image from warhammer community where intercessors DO get SIA and our army will get mission tactics like we did in 7th. We should get details this week on how exactly mission tactics will work.

[Prot]

Thank you Mobius. As usual you are most helpful.

 

I contacted the tournament organizer and get this.... the cut off date is literally on the day the codex comes out; meaning I'm good to go!

 

Giving me about 2 weeks of playtest time.

 

The real issue is getting enough fully painted, and trying to... somewhat 'foresee' what will be good for my list.

 

So far I'm thinking the Interessor may work with SIA but do we know if it's -on top of- the -1 AP of their current Bolt Rifle?

Otherwise I have to write them off purely for time's sake.

 

Primaris Inventory:

 

Here's what I have with BLUE Primer on it (lol): 5 Hellblasters

10 Reivers ( I SO want these to have SIA. I wanted to like them so much but really they need SIA)

3 HvyBltr Inceptors (My plasma ones are painted as Ultra)

 

2 (unprimed) Repulsors. (I sold my Custodes army and bought these. In my tests they work but they are unrealistic for me to finish).

 

3 Pressfit Aggressors (flamers)

 

5 unpainted Intercessors (one grenade launcher)

 

1 half painted Apothecary (painted as Ultra, but he's white... I have to paint his arm silver.

1 half painted Libby (Ultra blue again, but who cares)

1 Gravis Captain (unassembled but easy enough... not a big fan though)

 

 

For Deathwatch I have various Vets painted, but not a ton that are 100% completed. But I do have a lot in various states of completion. I may have to post pictures and do a proper inventory. But from memory:

Full Painted:

2-3 Grav Cannon dudes

2-3 IHB dudes

1 Shield Bolter dude

2-3 bolter/power sword dudes (I could call them CC swords?)

 

Partial Paint:

1 Watchmaster (90% painted... I'm a big fan of this model)

2 Drop Pods (90% done... ugh)

1 Razorback or Rhino (done)

4 Terminators done (2 assault cannons, 1 missile launcher, 1 Shield/hammer)

1 Termie Captain (in my avatar)

1 Ven Dread (done) (painted options include las/fist/missile/asscan)

1 Libby Termie (50% done) (the one with the axe)

1 fully painted Overkill Libby dude (The Bloodraven guy)

 

and finally... just because I remembered: 1 Fire Raptor put together, unpainted.

Actually I saved a limited store opening super duper special Terminator Captain with the bolt gauntlet. He looked so cool... probably not good for anything but the long term plan is to put him in one day.

 

I could grab another Corvus and make a quick dirty flyer wing, but that does sound boring, and the Raptor got hit hard with the FAQ.

As far as my 'what can I put in here' list, I own the entire line... a second Artemis as well (I sold my painted one)

 

Between my 

[Akrim]

So some may know I got talked into playing in an ITC event in under a month.

[Aothaine]

Hey Prot! I think taking a new codex to ITC and rush building your Deathwatch is a really bad idea. But! If you want to just go and have fun you can pull it off. If you are being serious though two weeks it not enough time to prep for the tournament. Also! The FAQ for the dex might not be out and that could put your plans for a list in the graveyard. 

 

If you want to bring Deathwatch I would only do it as allies. Build something you know is going to be good even after the codex. Perhaps get the Corvex done and build a blob kill-team designed for melee or rapid fire beta strike for turn 2. 

 

Just my opinion. I'd go with something you already have built and painted though. Especially if you are familiar with another army. But if you are going for fun and not to win.. then have fun and don't worry about it.

 

Edited for spelling, some grammar etc... pretty sure there are other embarrassing mistakes as well. :p

[Prot]

 

So some may know I got talked into playing in an ITC event in under a month.

 

 

Your Chaotic manipulative ways are appalling. You should be disgusted in yourself! You are the living embodiment of Erebus (The sad thing is I know you will be proud of this!)

 

hey Prot! I thinking taking a new codex to ITC and rush building your Deathwatch is a really bad idea. But! If you want to just go and have fun you can pull it off. If you are being serious though two weeks it not enough time to prep for the tournament. Also! The FAQ for the dex might not be out and that could put your plans for a list in the graveyard. 

 

If you want to bring Deathwatch I would only do it as allies. Build something you know is going to be good even after the codex. Perhaps get the Corvex done and build a blob kill-team designed for melee or rapid fire beta strike for turn 2. 

 

Just my opinion. I'd go with something you already have built and painted though. Especially if you are familiar with another army. But if you are going for fun and not to win.. then have fun and don't worry about it.

 

Your right... I probably can't pull it off. 

 

I'll most likely re-start my Custodes army. That's a waaay better idea.   

 

Seriously though, I do at least know how to play my Custodes. :)

 

"Friends" have convinced me to not bring out the Grey Knights. lol

[Aothaine]

 

"Friends" have convinced me to not bring out the Grey Knights. lol

 

 

Those are some good friends. Grey Knights are in a horrible state right now. I'm wondering what GW is going to do to try and fix them. I love the models, lore, and a ton of other options with them but right now they are an elite army that is just failing to do what they need to do. The fact that their options are so limited doesn't help either.

[Prot]

 

 

"Friends" have convinced me to not bring out the Grey Knights. lol

 

 

Those are some good friends. Grey Knights are in a horrible state right now. I'm wondering what GW is going to do to try and fix them. I love the models, lore, and a ton of other options with them but right now they are an elite army that is just failing to do what they need to do. The fact that their options are so limited doesn't help either.

 

 

You know though I don't think they're THAT terrible. At least compared to... taking a Deathwatch army that you're unsure of. I mean Deathwatch have been historically worse off than any power armoured army I can think of. Plus I know of a Chaos guy that I have completed pounced back into the Warp with my GK! :tu:

[Aothaine]

 

You know though I don't think they're THAT terrible. At least compared to... taking a Deathwatch army that you're unsure of. I mean Deathwatch have been historically worse off than any power armoured army I can think of. Plus I know of a Chaos guy that I have completed pounced back into the Warp with my GK!

 

 

You got me there. But I'm hoping the new Deathwatch codex is going to cure most of their issues and I'm really looking forward to how primaris will work with them. But you are right that Grey Knights can pull off some shenanigans. But against anything competitive they are no better than Deathwatch at the moment.

[GrinNfool]

Eh I would wait, given how drastic things have changed in other codexes from index, alot of loadouts could gain or lose viability based on points changes.  I say this as someone who is in a similiar situation.  I got quite a few new DW models to assemble but been holding off.

[Prot]

Yea I think I need to see the codex. Things were unfortunately very mediocre over the past 12 or so months for them.

[Claws and Effect]

If they allow storm bolters to use SIA that will fix a lot of firepower problems. 10 man kill team with storm bolters and power swords for only 60 points above base cost? Not too shabby.

 

Look at bikers again. 14" movement, rapid fire 2 twin bolters and a power weapon for around 40 points. They're tougher and move better than Infantry, and currently put out more shots than them. 20 shots with Hellfire rounds is nothing to sneeze at.

[Drizzt79]

I would suggest a kill team composed of 8 vets and 2termies: 4frag cannons vets, 4SS+ bolter vets, 2 basic termies stormbolter +PS

Hide them somewhere the first turn

 

On second turn just deepstrike the Jump pack captain with the beacon angelis, teleport the kill team, and just shoot.

 

Taking down such a kill team will require a lot of shots...ap0 shots allocated on the +2 saves of the termies, ap -whatever on the 4 storm shields. Just try to not roll 1 or 2

 

If you survive, the next turn you can advance and use the autohit frag round (8D6 autohits)......devastating!

 

The kill team costs 368 points. Worth every point

[Prot]

Look at bikers again. 14" movement, rapid fire 2 twin bolters and a power weapon for around 40 points. They're tougher and move better than Infantry, and currently put out more shots than them. 20 shots with Hellfire rounds is nothing to sneeze at.

 

Bikes really aren't working for any particular army in 8th. I think we all had high hopes for them at the onset of 8th, but for the most part I think most marine armies with access to them soon realized they just didn't really hit that hard, and too many things are good at killing T5.

 

I played DW Bikers probably a dozen times for the opening months of 8th and always felt like... there was probably somewhere better to put the points. I think it's a good suggestion, but they always just felt like... 'more of the same'. Just more SIA bolters that are quick, and slightly more durable. Speed is good though. I won't deny that.

 

In this ITC format, it would be handy to have a 5-6 man unit that could react to objectives.

 

I would suggest a kill team composed of 8 vets and 2termies: 4frag cannons vets, 4SS+ bolter vets, 2 basic termies stormbolter +PS

Hide them somewhere the first turn

 

On second turn just deepstrike the Jump pack captain with the beacon angelis, teleport the kill team, and just shoot.

 

Taking down such a kill team will require a lot of shots...ap0 shots allocated on the +2 saves of the termies, ap -whatever on the 4 storm shields. Just try to not roll 1 or 2

 

If you survive, the next turn you can advance and use the autohit frag round (8D6 autohits)......devastating!

 

The kill team costs 368 points. Worth every point

 

Okay... that's a crazy expensive squad, but I'll be honest I never tried anything THAT loaded up in a single squad. In theory, I love the sound of it, and it feels as fluffy as it would hopefully play as well as it sounds.

 

So I am thinking one less SS vet... just because this is 1750 points and I need to trim wherever... and limit my modeling projects.

 

2x Term w/SB+PS = 38 pts

3x Vet w/SS+Bolter = 24 pts

1 Vet vanilla = 19

3x Vet w/Frag = 49 pts

 

363 pts.

 

Perhaps some more tweaks?

 

What I'm afraid of is I'm thinking of the game I've recently had... this squad is going to unfortunately get hit hard by... Magnus, Mort, LoC, DP's, etc, etc.Yes the shields will help but THIS is the squad that had to earn its money back or it's going downhill fast. There's nothing in that squad that punches back... hard. And to do so would put it into a point cost that is crazy.

 

Second part of that weakness is the inability to retreat from CC. If that squad can only be POSSIBLY effective in T2 that's bad enough, (most likely it won't be that effective until T3). When it inevitably gets charged and can't overwatch because of Terrify, WarpTalons...whatever.. that squad is more or less useless.

 

One of two things has to happen: 1 - the squad retreats a turn and is ineffective for another turn, or 2 - something slams VERY hard into CC and is capable of taking down the nasties I refer to.

 

Although crazy, I'm thinking a hammer Termie squad to come down with my Captain in T1? I never had made a jumppack capt so unfortunately (or fortunately?) I would be using my Termie captain, and/or Libby Termie for Beacon.

 

++++EDIT++++

Came up with this list trying to take advice, plus what I like... couldn't really do it. It's a bit of a mess:

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [95 PL, 1731pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Librarian in Terminator Armor [9 PL, 170pts]: 5) Psychic Fortress, 6) Null Zone, Combi-plasma, Force axe, Storm bolter

 

Watch Captain in Terminator Armor [8 PL, 128pts]: Bane of Monstrosities, Relic blade, Storm bolter, The Beacon Angelis, Warlord

 

+ Troops +

 

Deathwatch Kill Team [21 PL, 363pts]

. Deathwatch Terminator

. . Power Sword and Stormbolter: Power sword, Storm bolter

. Deathwatch Terminator

. . Power Sword and Stormbolter: Power sword, Storm bolter

. Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun

. Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Storm shield

. Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Storm shield

. Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Storm shield

. Deathwatch Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon

. Deathwatch Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon

. Deathwatch Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon

. Deathwatch Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon

 

Deathwatch Kill Team [9 PL, 115pts]

. Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Stalker Pattern Boltgun

. Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Stalker Pattern Boltgun

. Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Stalker Pattern Boltgun

. Deathwatch Veteran: Stalker Pattern Boltgun

. Deathwatch Veteran: Stalker Pattern Boltgun

 

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 91pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

 

+ Elites +

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 182pts]: Twin lascannon

. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter: Storm bolter

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Inceptor Squad [10 PL, 135pts]: Assault bolter, 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: Plasma incinerator

. 4x Hellblaster

. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

 

+ Flyer +

 

Corvus Blackstar [12 PL, 262pts]: Hurricane bolter, Twin lascannon

. 2x Stormstrike Missile Launchers: 2x Stormstrike missile launcher

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Razorback [5 PL, 120pts]: Twin lascannon

 

++ Total: [95 PL, 1731pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

[Prot]

Well as per this article: this changes a few things.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/01/may-1st-codex-deathwatch-preview-focused-adaptable-deadlygw-homepage-post-1/

 

This means the bolter Inceptors I JUST airbrushed last night are out.

 

BUT Intercessors are better. And Reivers did get my wish for a better gun. That's a game changer for me.

[Drizzt79]

Nice list...I would just put a missile launcher on the venerable dreadnought (cc weapon is a waste mostly), and a stormbolter +hkmissile on the razorback

 

Inceptors with SIA would have just been too OP....I would not exclude them, they can DS, give you some mobility, and can take out some screen troops.

 

In my “competitive” list I got 3 bolter and 3 plasma Inceptors....I DS them together with a second JP captain to overcharge and rerol ones to hit....now we can shoot Elites for example and rerol ones to wound too

 

So on one side I use the beacon to DS the frag kill team, on the other side 6 inceptors.

In the back a couple of vendreads (TL+missile 165pts each) and a razorback (Asscan), supported by a team of stalker bolters.

I take 3 bikes since they are good to get objectives.

 

Add a couple of eversor assassins and a callidus to create some panic.... and the job is done

[Charlo]

Reavers Grab landing in with SIA rapid fire guns is totally bonkers. A very mobile threat unit that can shoot and tussle well too.

 

Just Intercessors look so tasty now, especially Stalkers with their crazy -4AP at 30"!

[Mobius0288]

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [95 PL, 1731pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Librarian in Terminator Armor [9 PL, 170pts]: 5) Psychic Fortress, 6) Null Zone, Combi-plasma, Force axe, Storm bolter

 

Watch Captain in Terminator Armor [8 PL, 128pts]: Bane of Monstrosities, Relic blade, Storm bolter, The Beacon Angelis, Warlord

 

+ Troops +

 

Deathwatch Kill Team [21 PL, 363pts]

. Deathwatch Terminator

. . Power Sword and Stormbolter: Power sword, Storm bolter

. Deathwatch Terminator

. . Power Sword and Stormbolter: Power sword, Storm bolter

. Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun

. Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Storm shield

. Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Storm shield

. Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Storm shield

. Deathwatch Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon

. Deathwatch Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon

. Deathwatch Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon

. Deathwatch Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon

 

Deathwatch Kill Team [9 PL, 115pts]

. Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Stalker Pattern Boltgun

. Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Stalker Pattern Boltgun

. Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Stalker Pattern Boltgun

. Deathwatch Veteran: Stalker Pattern Boltgun

. Deathwatch Veteran: Stalker Pattern Boltgun

 

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 91pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

 

+ Elites +

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 182pts]: Twin lascannon

. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter: Storm bolter

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Inceptor Squad [10 PL, 135pts]: Assault bolter, 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: Plasma incinerator

. 4x Hellblaster

. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

 

+ Flyer +

 

Corvus Blackstar [12 PL, 262pts]: Hurricane bolter, Twin lascannon

. 2x Stormstrike Missile Launchers: 2x Stormstrike missile launcher

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Razorback [5 PL, 120pts]: Twin lascannon

 

++ Total: [95 PL, 1731pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

 

 

So looking at your list, and this is based off my experiences, this is how I see it playing out. And I'm going through the motions not "hate" on your list, but to help show what your opponents may do.

 

- Against most other armies, you are going to have a numbers problem. Armies with lots of troop spam are going to make it difficult for you to focus fire or have juicy targets in the back for you to focus on while the troops swarm in on objectives/back lines. In just my ultramarine list I made a couple days ago, I have 2 5-man tacticals (heavy bolter/storm bolter), 2 Intercessors, 1 scout sniper, 1 hellblaster, 1 Devestator (Las/missile/heavy bolter), Rhino, apothecary, ancient, Lt and Capt... and that's 1500 pts. Change out the rhino and add some razorbacks and a few more heavy weapons, and now I've got something semi-competitive.

 

I say that show the need for quantity and quality of firepower. Competitively, I don't see suicide frag cannon squads viable. Some people swear by them but that's a valuable infantry unit that could be useful capturing/contesting objectives. Against Tyranids and Orks, ya man totally acceptable but again... they will be wiped the following turn by everything else. Just something you've got to consider. I wouldn't do more than 3 in a squad.

 

- For the stalker bolters, you can't pair the stalker bolters with regular bolters anymore. You can definitely give them all chainswords, and even recommend a single SS for the group. They'll be in cover (I assume) anyways so they'll get the 2+ for the most part. That single storm shield will help for the random AP-2 fire that heads your way (which necrons can now enjoy).

 

** Just reading the community article** You could potentially ditch the stalker bolter guys and fit in some more Intercessors now that they get SIA. Kraken rounds on Rapid Fire 30" guns? Ya bro...

 

- With the new SIA for bolt carbines, you NEED to take a squad of Reivers or two. The pistol Reivers will even pair well with that tempus shell stratagem. Switch out those Inceptors. Again, Reivers aren't the ultimate unit... they are late game objective/back line holders and for charging lethal units/vehicles. Wtih SIA, they just got REALLY good.

[Prot]

 

/Snip

 

So looking at your list, and this is based off my experiences, this is how I see it playing out. And I'm going through the motions not "hate" on your list, but to help show what your opponents may do.

 

- Against most other armies, you are going to have a numbers problem. Armies with lots of troop spam are going to make it difficult for you to focus fire or have juicy targets in the back for you to focus on while the troops swarm in on objectives/back lines. In just my ultramarine list I made a couple days ago, I have 2 5-man tacticals (heavy bolter/storm bolter), 2 Intercessors, 1 scout sniper, 1 hellblaster, 1 Devestator (Las/missile/heavy bolter), Rhino, apothecary, ancient, Lt and Capt... and that's 1500 pts. Change out the rhino and add some razorbacks and a few more heavy weapons, and now I've got something semi-competitive.

 

I say that show the need for quantity and quality of firepower. Competitively, I don't see suicide frag cannon squads viable. Some people swear by them but that's a valuable infantry unit that could be useful capturing/contesting objectives. Against Tyranids and Orks, ya man totally acceptable but again... they will be wiped the following turn by everything else. Just something you've got to consider. I wouldn't do more than 3 in a squad.

 

- For the stalker bolters, you can't pair the stalker bolters with regular bolters anymore. You can definitely give them all chainswords, and even recommend a single SS for the group. They'll be in cover (I assume) anyways so they'll get the 2+ for the most part. That single storm shield will help for the random AP-2 fire that heads your way (which necrons can now enjoy).

 

** Just reading the community article** You could potentially ditch the stalker bolter guys and fit in some more Intercessors now that they get SIA. Kraken rounds on Rapid Fire 30" guns? Ya bro...

 

- With the new SIA for bolt carbines, you NEED to take a squad of Reivers or two. The pistol Reivers will even pair well with that tempus shell stratagem. Switch out those Inceptors. Again, Reivers aren't the ultimate unit... they are late game objective/back line holders and for charging lethal units/vehicles. Wtih SIA, they just got REALLY good.

 

 

1.- Against most other armies, you are going to have a numbers problem

 

- Actually I'm very used to playing elite armies from DW, GK, to Custodes. realistically I think this is a problem inherent with such armies.

 

2. I say that show the need for quantity and quality of firepower. Competitively, I don't see suicide frag cannon squads viable

 

- Very possible. I almost never play an eggs in one basket type of list. But I'm trying to find something that will work. Maybe I should reduce it to 3 FC, which was my 7th edition number. In 8th I further reduced that to 2 per squad. However I do want to get Primaris in. So I may only have ONE vet squad.

 

3. For the stalker bolters, you can't pair the stalker bolters with regular bolters anymore.

 

- oops, that was a list building accident. I don't even know if the chainsword thing will carry through to the codex?

 

4.  With the new SIA for bolt carbines, you NEED to take a squad of Reivers or two

 

- lol That's a given! I tried using them when they didn't have SIA and they were quite mediocre... and I stopped using them, but with SIA, for sure.

 

So let's try a different list considering new knowledge, and a complete and utter lack of understanding point costs or how it will work together!!!!

 

I think I got it figured out.... Let me test a list I have in mind.

[Mobius0288]

Ya man, just looking to help. Let us know. I get the whole lite army vibe but it's a bit different from knights and custodes. We don't the those 2+ saves and 4+ smite saves. Every troop loss hurts. That's all i was trying to make with regards to the frag squad. If you think the rest of the army will be ok without, go for it. I tend to float toward a squad with 4 combi-plasmas/1bolter... then I add extra bodies and shield based on points and how many other troops I have. It works really well for me coming out of a drop or blackstar, paired with a watchmaster. I literally use it on troops and elite troops. I say my over charging for my hellblasters, but at least I have the option in a pinch.

 

Combi-meltas are also another good choice I've run instead of Frag Cannons. I used to bring suicide frags to kill one specific thing and let them die. With combi-meltas, I feel like I have better damage potential. Someone can do the math and prove me wrong but I've had more success with 3-4 combi meltas against charaters/vehicles then Frags (any profile). And if they survive a round of shooting after I've gotten my target, I can press on with hitting other infantry units that are baby sitting the target I wanted.

 

Horde issues - Blackstar, 3 Frags or 4 Combi-plasmas with an HQ (add meat shields as appropriate)

Assassination (shooting) - 3-4 combi-meltas

Assassination (melee) - Vanguard (5 TH/2 SS/5 pistol) in a blackstar

Screening units/bodies/objectives - Intercessors

Deep strike (back line/objectives) - Reivers

Deep strike (shoot/kill) - Combi-plasma

Anti-Armor - Hellblasters, missile launchers (paired with a small stalker bolt team), Lascannons

 

Not saying you should do that but that's what I use. Most of the units, once they kill their target, can go after any another unit with some success.

[Aothaine]

Today's update should help you decide a lot!

 

If you need anti-infantry just build something like this:

 

Intercessor x6 (Auto Bolt Rifle)

Inceptor x1 (Assault Bolters)

Aggressors x3 (Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets and Fragstorm Grenade Launchers) 

 

This kill team will clear the board of any hordes you might have issues with. Depending on points you could even cycle in more Aggressors up to 4 and drop an intercessor.