Prot's crazy ITC idea in light of the Codex release

[Prot]

Actually it's not that I am against the idea at all.

 

I was gang busters with the Primaris add ons. The only question was points, but I was okay with what I was seeing. 

 

The problem is time. I have a handful of fully finished models, a lot of half finished, and I started on 5 Hellblasters, and 3 Inceptors... then after all the airbrush sessions (which I had worked on a new recipe) I found out I had accidentally not accounted for shoulder pads.... I used the pressfit, or Dark Imperium models with one piece arms.

 

I totally screwed up. My second Hellblaster in I realized I was wrecking the models. It was kind of disheartening because I was clipping off shoulder pads to make room for the DW ones and it came out kind of rough... I could hide a lot of it but incidental damage to the surrounding armour kind of kicked the wind out of my sails.

[Mobius0288]

Today's update should help you decide a lot!

 

If you need anti-infantry just build something like this:

 

Intercessor x6 (Auto Bolt Rifle)

Inceptor x1 (Assault Bolters)

Aggressors x3 (Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets and Fragstorm Grenade Launchers) 

 

This kill team will clear the board of any hordes you might have issues with. Depending on points you could even cycle in more Aggressors up to 4 and drop an intercessor.

 

I would say based on his current models available:

 

5 intercessors (assault guns)

1 agressor (flamer or guns)

2-4 Reivers (carbines)

 

It's not super powerful but...

- it's fairly cheap considering what you're bringing

- it's fairly durable

- You can always advance and shoot

- Flamers to deter charges (add another if you feel you need it)

- Reivers to to throw shock grenades and affect leadership

**Add apothecary as appropriate**

 

If you get Hellblasters for DW, I would say say sprinkle them into a couple different intercessor squads and just walk them up the board together. Inceptors I think would be a bit price but if you're REALLY worried about being charged, then toss one in. I think I would only bring an Inceptor if I ran the heavy weapon versions and decided to march them up the mid in support of another squad or two. Otherwise, camp the heavy version in the back with a single aggressor (or not?).

[Prot]

What about the Intecessor Stalker Bolter/Inceptor combo? No one like that one for the list? Too expensive?

 

I do have Hellblasters... I have a box set and a DI set. (with the shoulder pad issues).

 

I was thinking if the Deepstrike Strat exists, the Hellblasters are made for it.

 

P.S.

Not sure about the Reivers though. I almost think they're better off alone so they can go into reserves?

[ashc]

Yeah I'm not convinced at reivers in kill teams, however with SIA I think they could be really good kept as a pure unit and being able to deep strike and harass as they were meant to, except they'll be better at it as deathwatch.

[Mobius0288]

Yeah I'm not convinced at reivers in kill teams, however with SIA I think they could be really good kept as a pure unit and being able to deep strike and harass as they were meant to, except they'll be better at it as deathwatch.

I somewhat agree. They don't offer anything super useful unless you enter melee with your team. Giving them the combat knife would be better for that melee situation and still allow you to use Tempest shells without wasting your two shots from the bolt rifle or bolt carbine.

 

 

What about the Intecessor Stalker Bolter/Inceptor combo? No one like that one for the list? Too expensive?

 

I do have Hellblasters... I have a box set and a DI set. (with the shoulder pad issues).

 

I was thinking if the Deepstrike Strat exists, the Hellblasters are made for it.

 

P.S.

Not sure about the Reivers though. I almost think they're better off alone so they can go into reserves?

 

If you do it that way bud, I would say still put in an aggressor in so you can scoot and shoot toward objectives without penalty. Or even run away from deep striking units. The assault bolters would be a better fit, but use what ya got. Maybe an aggressor, Inceptor and 8 intercessors with the stalkers? You lose the amount of shots compared to the regular stalker bolters but your AP at 42" is REALLY high. Still only Str 4.

[Prot]

Yea I like the sound of Aggressors. The only way this is happening is if I included my 2 Repulsors. Lol.

[Mobius0288]

Nah you don't need 2 Repulsors, just take 1 if at all. You could do something like this (invest in a unit of Veteran Vanguard):

 

- Watchmaster

 

- Capt / Libby (cheap gear... MC boltgun, xenoblade / storm bolter, power staff) (Angelis Beacon)

 

- Blackstar (Assault cannon)

 

- Ven Dread (Lascannon)

 

- Razorback (Lascannon)

 

- Kill Team

  -- Termie (sword/storm bolter)

  -- 6 vets (2 SS/Bolter, 4 Frag Cannons)

  -- 1 Sgt (sword/bolter)

  *Add VV if you have one... pistol/sword

 

- Kill Team

  -- 5 vets (1 SS/stalker, 3 chainsword/stalker, 1 heavy bolter or infernus)

 

- Fortis Kill Team

  -- 5 Intercessors

  -- 2 Hellblasters

 

- Fortis Kill Team

  -- 5 Intercessors

  -- 3 Hellblasters

 

If any extra points, grab deep strike unit to support the Angelis Beacon tactic or MID GAME objectives (reivers?).

 

Lascannons for backfield firing. Walk the troops toward objectives or front lines, the stalker guys can camp any objective in your deployment zone. Blackstar for harassing and dropping off your super mega suicide unit.

 

If you want a more survivable tactic, check out a drop pod with a watchmaster and a shooty kill team. Drop in some reivers and beacon over a unit of intercessors with the watchmaster, and you've just created a HUGE flank that no one really expects.

[Panzer]

Reiver and Stalker Intercessors I'd play on their own to be honest.

Reiver so they can use their deep strike rules and be where needed and Stalker Intercessors shouldn't really need to be able to fall back and shoot or move and shoot without penalty. SIA is plenty for both.

[Prot]

Nah you don't need 2 Repulsors, just take 1 if at all. You could do something like this (invest in a unit of Veteran Vanguard):

 

- Watchmaster

 

- Capt / Libby (cheap gear... MC boltgun, xenoblade / storm bolter, power staff) (Angelis Beacon)

 

- Blackstar (Assault cannon)

 

- Ven Dread (Lascannon)

 

- Razorback (Lascannon)

 

- Kill Team

  -- Termie (sword/storm bolter)

  -- 6 vets (2 SS/Bolter, 4 Frag Cannons)

  -- 1 Sgt (sword/bolter)

  *Add VV if you have one... pistol/sword

 

- Kill Team

  -- 5 vets (1 SS/stalker, 3 chainsword/stalker, 1 heavy bolter or infernus)

 

- Fortis Kill Team

  -- 5 Intercessors

  -- 2 Hellblasters

 

- Fortis Kill Team

  -- 5 Intercessors

  -- 3 Hellblasters

 

If any extra points, grab deep strike unit to support the Angelis Beacon tactic or MID GAME objectives (reivers?).

 

Lascannons for backfield firing. Walk the troops toward objectives or front lines, the stalker guys can camp any objective in your deployment zone. Blackstar for harassing and dropping off your super mega suicide unit.

 

If you want a more survivable tactic, check out a drop pod with a watchmaster and a shooty kill team. Drop in some reivers and beacon over a unit of intercessors with the watchmaster, and you've just created a HUGE flank that no one really expects.

 

Well the thing is I think I'm going to need the 4 Lascannons to take care of some serious threats, and keep the multiple squads embarked until they can get range on the Eldar types, etc...

 

I have 2 repulsors I just put together. The squads would get an Aggressor or 2. (2 total I guess since I'm trying to be conservative with points.)

 

I'm thinking:

 

Watchmaster

Libby

 

Rhino

Vets: Shield or two, 2 Frag Cannons. Filler. (in Rhino with HQ)

 

2 x repulsors with las loadout

5 x Plasma Incinerator Helblasters (might split up with Intercessors since now I know I can!)

 

5 Stalker Bolter Intercessors (with Aggressor of either load out type?)

5 'vanilla' Intercessors (Aggressor not necessary... maybe a Bolter Inceptor?)

 

Ven Dread, Assault cannon (can't find points for more Las).

 

I wish I knew what they were doing with the Corvus. BUT I have a test game tonight lined up for ITC. No idea if I should go with this, but time's running out!

[Vel'Cona]

Good luck in the first game!

[Prot]

Thanks but I confess I did the ITC test game with my Custodes... man it was a bloody, horribly nasty game against Dark Eldar. What a gross list.

 

Anyway I have too many blank spots on points... I just can't really make a valid list. Most of it was going to be Primaris based with one old school squad but I literally have too much of a point game I could be over by a good 20 points, or under by that amount. Probably not the end of the world, but since it's for an ITC event I need to be pretty sure since it's a fine line at that level of competitiveness. 

 

I will say one thing I've kind of flipped on is Helblasters. With SIA, and the 111 point Stalker Bolt Rifle w/Grenade launcher, I'm wondering if I need Helblasters. I could tag one Aggressor on for moving/shooting OR one Plasma Inceptor along with the Stalker Intercessors and now they have the ability to 'hit and run' while adding 2 x D3 plasma shots... not too bad in any shooty squad really. I'm really leaning that way.

 

Well I guess I'll just try making this up here:

 

Libby (null zone/Fortress) 96

Watchmaster 130

 

Killteam: 143? (give or take 50 points. lol)

2 Vets w/Shields (16+1+5= 22@?) 44

1 Vet bolter 17

2 Vets Fragcannon (16+25=41@?) 82

 

Killteam:

5 Intercessors: 20@=100 (Stalker Bolt Rifle x 5 = 10?) 110 (grenade launcher) 111

 

Killteam:

5 Intercessors 20@ =100

 

Hellblasters:

5 w/Incinerators 165 (+5 for boltpistols?) 170

 

2 Repulsors Las/las shooty variants:  330x2 = 660

 

1 Rhino: 72 

 

TOTAL of Above: 1482 (268 left)

 

OPTIONAL:

1. Ven Dread: Assault Cannon 154 (wish I had room for las) <---This dude is painted! (any weapon loadout)

 

2. add in 2 Bolter Inceptors? (Split between Intercessor squads? Wait... just realized can't get them in the Repulsors.

 

3. 2 Agressors (flamers to dissuade charges? adds a bit of punch, but allows move and shoot.) 108 for 2?

 

(leaves 6 points?)

 

OPTIONAL:

 

1. Corvus Blackstar (236?) (would pull out Rhino, but I'd like my Watchmaster on the ground for rerolls and I intend on regaining CP's on 5+)

 

 

OPTIONAL:

 

1. Plasma Inceptor squad x 3 (177) These guys could drop in with the 5 Helblasters. (leaves 91 ish points)

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

P.S. I'd love to fit bikes in, but CC is going to be a big problem in this list I think. And I have to keep in mind I've got 3 weeks to squeeze all the Primaris stuff in. lol

[Mobius0288]

Been MIA all weekend looking at the codex leaks and reviews...

 

Quick notes to consider:

- Blackstar went down 10 pts (cannot carry primaris)

- Vets are now 16 pts per, with bolt guns being 1 pt

- Primaris infantry are still 18 pts with 1 pt bolt rifles (pts go up depending on rifle choice)

- Stalker bolter for vets are better and still at the same price (-1 or -2 AP)

- Frags being 25 pts

- Infernus being 20 pts

- KILL TEAMS HAVE THE COMBAT SQUAD ABILITY**

- All the mission tactics we have from each kind of kill team in 7th is now our army wide buff... choose 1, change it for 2 CPs (1 CP if watchmaster is in your army) or bring a relic.

- Sgts now have a separate list of weapons, which leads to Biker Sgts having access to Sgt weapons (twin bolter + Storm bolter)

- Oh BTW, Storm bolters have SIA (everything except aggressors, inceptors and heavy bolters)

 

** You can now combat squad kill teams, which now can include combinations like 5 vets/4 bikers/1 vanguard. Combat squad the team into 5 vets (rhino? blackstar?) and 4 bikers/vanguard. You can now retreat, fire and charge in the same turn without extra taxes.

 

I know you're getting close to your tournament date but DW is going to be a really good choice if you build out some options.

 

I with you on the Hellblasters a little bit... since Vets went down in cost, you can probably do better with drop podding a combi-melta team. Angelis Beacon is still a legit tactic for use with Hellblasters but you may not need them outside that. Plasma Inceptors would serve you better, as long as you deep strike them with a Captain and support (reivers?).

 

Suggestions:

- Take the stalker bolters in a 5 man kill team over the intercessors' stalker bolt rifle.

- Take the intercessors with bolt rifles and use them to walk to mid field objectives/screen.

- Take Reivers

- Remove the Repulsor, fill with Rhino (x2 storm bolters) and Blackstar (assault cannon goodness)

  -- Frags (w/ librarian? Angelis Beacon if you think you can disembark far enough to pull it off, otherwise tome of eccolades to get choice of mission tactic for units within 6") in the Blackstar

  -- Maybe a 5 man bolter/chainsword team in Blackstar.

  -- Maybe throw a kill together an infernus bolter and/or heavy bolter for the rhino.

  -- Roll the watchmaster with the rhino and intercessor teams up one side.

- Remove Hellblasters and just take Plasma inceptors.

- Take a ven dread with lascannon, park him anywhere.

- If worried about CC, take the agressors in a Fortis Kill team so you get T5 for the whole unit and you can still let them chew up your intercessors first.

- Take Apothecary if you're worried about losing your intercessors too fast.

- If you take bikes, take them as a biker unit so the Sgt can get a storm bolter... if you want a VV with them, pair them up with a kill team and combat squad.

 

I know you may not have all the options but those are my thoughts after digesting the new codex and what you have available.

[Prot]

Thank you those are very good suggestions. (I do think you're a point under for the primaris though as I think their pistols require SIA tax).

 

Unfortunately I came to a realization this weekend... almost no chance I can finish the army in time to even test it properly. I put together 5 Stalker Bolter Primaris too. lol (I wanted a squad to work so badly... I thought this would be my chance).