Prot's ITC Challenge: P5: New ITC Test Game: Astra- NO MORT

[Prot]

+++ EDIT +++

 

It's official; I'm making an run at an ITC event with the Deathguard. I'll use this thread and the feedback to make it all (hopefully) work!

 

I will post more updates at my Blog: Prot's War in the Warp

 

Thanks to everyone continuing to give me some advice (especially on daemons) for me to try out and ponder.

 

++++

 

 

Okay after playing a bunch of test games, I think I finally am ready to make a decision on my ITC army but I feel uneasy about it.

I am probably more comfortable with my Custodes in a competitive sense. But more comfortable with my DG overall and have more flexibility with them. Plus I’m going to be honest, I have a large, decently painted Force.

Now after all this farting around I have only 3 weeks to take this from theory, and testing to a 1750 point ITC list.

So what I’m doing to make this interesting for myself is include Mortarion, even at this point level.

So far so good. I asked a friend to make a competitive Necron army and Mort did some good work.

The thing I’m also trying for the first time is a Daemon Battalion to go with my DG battalion. I own none of the Daemons and ordered some to complete in this short time.

The Poxbringers are healing Mort. I have no idea what else to do. I have my usual suspects in the DG part but Daemons are light with three Nurglings squads.

Additionally I’d like to bring Plague Drones into the list as they seem good on paper and cheap. What do you guys think?

Also as much as I love my Deathshroud to protect Mort at 180 points in a 1750 army I can’t fit them. So aside from my Fleshy abundance is there any reasonable thing I can use to help Mort?

The DG part is basically rushing up with Poxwalkers and 5 Plaguemarines with my 2 PBCs in tow. Typhus and a Plaguecaster support the Poxwalkers.

[BlackTriton]

I like plague drone. fast, tough and can hit hard with 4 attack 2 damage each. They just got the plague bearer keyword, giving them acces to more synergies. No AP means you need something else for that role. Just like plague bearers, they require investment to get the most out of them. They maybe are not a good "splash" unit.

I look foward to using them more when I flesh out my daemon army.

[Prot]

Interesting that you say 'not a good splash unit', because that's what I was hoping I would do with them.

 

I hate to use the phrase 'set in stone' but it feels right now like most of my list is set. I am probably further reducing the role of Plaguemarines in the list though and thought this unit might help. I dunno. I may go to the daemons to see if there's any synergy there between Mort and the other Daemons.

 

If I pull Mortarion out of the list at 1750 it gives me lots more options. BUT I like him, and he's painted. :)

[Checkmate77]

With 1750 you will have more of an element of surprise with Mortarion, I don't think a lot of people will be expecting him under 2k (I could be wrong of course  )  Either way If you have a painted Mortarion and want to use him, go for it brother!  I'm excited to know how he does so please do share results.

 

Besides Poxbringers healing Mortarion, I think your Physic powers are going to be key to keeping him alive as long as possible.  You know the ones I mean  

 

Good luck!

[Prot]

Thank you.

 

Yea I've had very mixed feelings about Mort. But I spent so darn long painting him. lol (not the greatest reason to take him, but whatever).

 

Thanks for your well wishes. I will see if this is indeed the final army I take, but it's starting to look like it!

[BlackTriton]

I like the idea of Mortarion in your list.

But, to quote all good general, I have 2 question for you:

 

How will you win,

And why will it work.

 

Mortarion can and will win some game.

But what if he dies turn one.

What objective are you taking, what are you giving up. How do you acheive them and how do you denie your oponent.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Pretty good questions. With itc you can tailor your secondaries to your list at least.

 

Sadly even with first floors being obscured he'll still be able to be shot because he's ginormous. It's also going to be a bit rough since I know you use entropy cannons as anti tank and there's going to be less los than most people are used to

[Prot]

I like the idea of Mortarion in your list.

But, to quote all good general, I have 2 question for you:

 

How will you win,

And why will it work.

 

Mortarion can and will win some game.

But what if he dies turn one.

What objective are you taking, what are you giving up. How do you acheive them and how do you denie your oponent.

 

- How will I win?

+ By cheating. I have baked dice, and will remove my opponent's models when he's not looking....

 

Seriously though, board control, psychic phase, and damage dealing coming from about 3 models.

 

- How will it work?

+ It works by getting people to ignore the PBCs. Mort is at -1 to hit, taking a lot of heat. It's FAR from a guarantee and the PBC's are not that good with vehicles. Obviously a lot hinges on Mort.

 

-But what if he dies turn one?

+ I will lose. This is why people don't take him. I realize that is the gamble. Oddly enough I play him more conservative than most people. I -assume- (unless I'm playing a VERY aggressive opponent) that he won't be in CC on T1 so I keep him so far back it forces the 'juicy' long range units to move to acquire him as a target. That's my only recourse. It's all I can do. (Well that and the cheating part I suppose!)

 

Pretty good questions. With itc you can tailor your secondaries to your list at least.

 

Sadly even with first floors being obscured he'll still be able to be shot because he's ginormous. It's also going to be a bit rough since I know you use entropy cannons as anti tank and there's going to be less los than most people are used to

 

The Secondaries have me lost. I just see taking "Slay the Warlord" and "Old School" in most games.

 

here's the funny thing though... I just read the tournie FAQ and their "house rule" is they don't adopt the ITC first floor rule. This is terrifying to me because of how shooty 40K is right now, and we know what most tournies are like for LOS blocking terrain. Not much I can do about it though.

[Panzer]

Well the ITC first floor rule not being used shouldn't change much for your list. Mortarion can't hide and will be the number one target for most opponents anyway. :D

[Prot]

That's probably true. I'm thinking of the city ruined terrain I often use and there's a slim chance of actually getting out of LOS once in a while. I was more thinking of the chaff though. I don't have one of my Blighthaulers in the list because I can't justify it. I gotta feeling those little stinkers are going to get roasted. :)

[SkimaskMohawk]

Ugh the eternal joke of ITC. They put out a format for their circuit and then dont require it to be followed

 

Warlord, linebreaker and all that are part of Oldschool, but you get to pick a total of three secondaries. Each secondary can score you a max of 4 points throughout the game, for a total of 12 points possible (oldschool giving one each for warlord, first strike, last strike and linebreaker)

[Prot]

I realize the rules.... just find them a little too involved. Primary that us scored on player turn And game turn, plus 3 secondaries some of which have multiple pieces, is imo part of the issue. I’m not going to debate their system, they really don’t care..everyone has to have their mark on the game.

 

I personally have no problem with modified Maelstrom. It can work. But regardless I know what I’m playing is not going to win me any big prize. My goal is to be able to compete in the games while not packing my stuff up in T2 lol

[Azekai]

I personally have no problem with modified Maelstrom. It can work. But regardless I know what I’m playing is not going to win me any big prize. My goal is to be able to compete in the games while not packing my stuff up in T2 lol

Sounds like you are going into this with both eyes open, then.

 

What is the ITC 'first floor rule?' 

[SkimaskMohawk]

All ruin first floors cant be seen through as if they blocked los or lacked windows.

 

Funnily enough, this rule is pretty much how all the ruins I play with already are, albeit we houserule barrage can't shoot through floors for 30k so there's actual positioning required and you can hide from stuff that ignores line of sight 

[Clincher37]

In response to you asking about synergies between Mort and the daemons outside of just Fleshy Abundance.  You can also cast Blades of Putrefaction on Morty AND Virulent Blessing giving him +2 to wound, 5s and 6s are double damage AND cause a mortal wound. It's really nasty being able to wound everything T8 and under on 2s and spitting out that many mortal wounds.

 

I run a Daemon battalion with three units of Nurglings and a full strength mob of Plaguebearers in my 1750 list with Morty alongside an outrider of DP w/ 3 Bloat Drones and it's worked to great success for me so far.

[Prot]

Thank you. That's some great advice. My last game I didnt use Fleshy Abundance on Mort. It turns out my PBC's bugged my opponent more! 

 

But at some points I was casting Blades of Putrifaction on him, and at S16 I was wounding on 2's, re-rolling 1's, 6's = additional mortal wounds. The Virulent Blessing is a nice add on!

 

Thanks for that. 

 

 How about the Plaguedrones... do you ever use those? Or not worth it?

[SkimaskMohawk]

So another tidbit about morty. With his str 8 attack and blades, you'll wound anything thats not T9+ on 2s because of his aura. You also get a huge amount more of attacks with the str8 to generate around 9 mortal wounds on top of the 18 average saves they'll have to take 

[Clincher37]

Yeah, I didn't even use the eviscerating blow, just the profile where me makes 3 attacks per swing.

 

As for Plague Drones, I've only used them once and not to great effect. They seem like they need to be built around rather than just "splashed in" like you guys were talking about earlier. It's cool and all that they got the Plaguebearer keyword in the FAQ but keep in mind a Poxbringer can't keep up with them as there's no option for them rather than being on foot so it's hard to get that juicy synergy with him and/or a Spoilpox.

[Prot]

I keep forgetting about the -1 toughness.

 

Just had a game vs Custodes, man they are so tough. So tough. I think Mort is the only thing I had that they can’t just spank around. They did a heck of a job with that Custodes sodex.

[Charlo]

So what's the list?!

 

That Morty / VB / BoP combo is NASTY.

 

On a 5+ the Scythe deals a Mortal and becomes D2... And he gets 18 attacks 

[Clincher37]

After sleeping on it and thinking some things through, I think if you're looking to bring Daemons in on your list rather than mono-death guard, committing to the daemon engines is not a bad idea at all because of how well the two work together. Keeping the PBCs and/or Bloat Drones near the Poxbringer is going to bring the flamers up to S8 which is huge for DG considering they don't have much to deal with T7+. 

 

Right now I run a Spoilpox with my Nurgle Daemon battalion for the extra 2" move and +1 to hit for my plaguebearers but I'm wondering if taking a second Poxbringer would be a good idea since they each only get one cast and having one with Fleshy Abundance and the other with Virulent Blessing might help. 

 

It may not hurt to try to squeeze Epidemius in as well since everything in the list would count towards the tally and thus benefit from it (including the good ol' fart kart if you're still considering bringing it). 

 

One last note, the Plague Banner + Virulent Blessing + Spoilpox + Poxbringer buff on a large mob of Plaguebearers is terrifying. It's taken down major threats in my opponent's army on more than one occasion. +1 to hit from Spoilpox, extra swing on a 6, all unsaved wounds are 2 damage with 5s being 3 damage and 6s being 5 damage is pretty crazy all while rerolling failed wounds thanks to plague swords. I'm a firm believer that Plaguebearers are the best Nurgle troops choice and will bring them any day over Poxwalkers or Plague Marines (then again my local meta has a ton of high volume AP shooting that shread my Plague Marines any time I bring them). 

 

Since I haven't said it yet, I wish you the best of luck Prot. Been following your BatReps and Hobby progress posts on here for a long time and I look forward to hearing about how you do at the ITC event.

[Prot]

Sorry I’ve been a bit swamped and side tracked. I did squeeze in a few test games with a few of my contending armies.

ITC means no holds barred. I don’t think my list lives up to that. I did play an ITC styled Necron list but unfortunately I did not get a lot out of that game.

I did have second thoughts about the Daemon Psychic phase. I think Fleshy abundance is bigger than the offensive power and I’m not sure about the powers being split. I lost the Nurgle DP quote handily to Custodes and I lost Fleshy abundance as a result. So I'm thinking of giving Fleshy Abundance to both of the Nurgle HQ's.

I will use this thread and make it official.... Guys I appreciate the advice; I take it all into consideration and weight it against my time available too.... but it all helps!

I'll update my Blog as I go. It's Chaos time! (literally)

Work resumes on the DG.... (not anything I'd take a tournament but I'm super bad with my projects. lol )

[Prot]

Also... shot from test game vs. Necrons.

I played two proxy Poxbringers in this one. The Crons had a very middle of the road list... I think it was a bad match up for my opponent. I can't take anything of tactical value away from this game.

I did have a game where I swapped out a Poxbringer for a Daemon Prince, however he died VERY quick trying to keep Mort alive with Flesh Abundance. This was probably a mistake once my opponent knew Fleshy Abundance came from the DP, it got focused down hard by bikes, then I could not heal Mort. (The Poxbringer had the ability to make Mort +1 to wound , +1 damage).

I went to my GW picked up 2 boxes of start collecting Nurgle and a box of nurglings.

I built like crazy last night.

The trade off is: 17 Poxwalkers down to 13. - 5 Plaguemarines with 2 Blightlaunchers and Champ with Plasmagun down to... Same size squad but no plasma on Champ. Both PBC have to be flamers... Also I lose my Blightbringer which was there to 'speed' up the Poxwalkers and Typhus... .man it sucks on those turns where the D6 advance is a 1 with Typhus/Poxwalkers. So slow... BUT it is points that are saved for me to convert that one Poxbringer into a flying Nurgle DP.

I don't know which way is better to be honest. A DP is nice, however I feel like 13 Poxwalkers is almost useless post FAQ. Which is fine, but all they are is a shield for Typhus now, they don't make it anywhere alive at 13.(or they are hitting on 5's which stinks).

Anyway... the DP is nice. I don't know how to arm him. I gave him talons/wings but no relic (I don't think I can since he is Nurgle and my WL is the plaguesprayer dude with the Arch contaminator aura).

Still hashing this out. My "pure" DG list suffers from low CP's. This dual Battalion is better, but I do not have a chance of getting my Mortarion Body guard retinue of 3 dudes in the list which is okay I guess since they are 180.

[Emicus]

Definitely feel CPs are worth their weight in gold. With batallions getting 5 now, troops are even more important to bring. Double battalion sounds great!

[Clincher37]

Definitely going to be keeping up with your progress. I do agree that the Virulent Blessing may be overkill for Mortarion. It was just a really silly combo and I think Blades of Putrefaction is probably plenty. 

 

I wish I could find a way to make mono DG work for me but it just hasn't been there in the games I've played. 

 

I've been trying to figure out how to squeeze some Deathshroud Termies into my 1750 list as well but I think their points in conjunction with the FAQ have made it difficult for me to justify them. Before I would use them after Mortarion's first move up the table to help him survive until he could get into combat next turn but not being able to bring them in until turn 2 has kind of been their nail in the coffin for me since mine rarely made it into combat anyway. 

 

Edit: Also, regarding CPs. What are you using yours for now? I pretty much just used mine in mono DG lists to do the poxwalker farm but now I'm struggling with that to even use them on. I typically burn 1 for the Plague Banner in my Nurgle Daemons detachment but then the rest just end up going to re-rolls.