Blood Angels Unit of the Week series Unit of the Week: Aggressor Squad

[Arkhanist]

You can vow any valid unit from on-sprue up to assembled and primed.

[Blindhamster]

I've only used aggressors in pure primaris lists. But I've ran them alongside multiple repulsors, alongside inceptors (including plasma variety) and alongside redemptors, and all my lists have hellblasters.  They even got wiped quickly in an ally game where my ally had a land raider, even more hellblasters, various tanks etc.

a 6 man squad may perform a little better, i've not tried that, only ever ran them as 3 man squads.

Trouble is, toughness 5 doesn't actually make things all that much tougher than toughness 4 vs a lot of enemy types. And they die to weight of fire as easily as any other primaris unit.

The bolters are great vs hordes and I've had a squad do okay in melee vs a knight as well.

[Lathspell]

I can see a group of 3 units, 2 boltstorm and 1 flamestorm, with the flamestorm acting like charge screen. On the other hand, boltstorm would act as shoot screen for the flamestorm, as the enemy faces a tough decission, do I kill that advancing flamestorm, or do i kill that boltstorm units that are pounding a ton of shots per round?

[Silas7]

I've only used aggressors in pure primaris lists. But I've ran them alongside multiple repulsors, alongside inceptors (including plasma variety) and alongside redemptors, and all my lists have hellblasters.  They even got wiped quickly in an ally game where my ally had a land raider, even more hellblasters, various tanks etc.

a 6 man squad may perform a little better, i've not tried that, only ever ran them as 3 man squads.

Trouble is, toughness 5 doesn't actually make things all that much tougher than toughness 4 vs a lot of enemy types. And they die to weight of fire as easily as any other primaris unit.

The bolters are great vs hordes and I've had a squad do okay in melee vs a knight as well.

Still T4 3+ like normal marines with an even smaller unit size than terminators, the models are decent with a slight adjustment but the loadout and statline are peculiar. Also flamers are NEVER a primary weapon and most would argue that even tactical squads would rather keep the bolter than pay for a flamer, that's how poor the weapon is.

[Blindhamster]

Still T4 3+ like normal marines with an even smaller unit size than terminators, the models are decent with a slight adjustment but the loadout and statline are peculiar. Also flamers are NEVER a primary weapon and most would argue that even tactical squads would rather keep the bolter than pay for a flamer, that's how poor the weapon is.

 

 

 

They're T5.

 

Thats what Gravis does.

 

 

But yes, My point was they are not that great due to being too fragile.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Blindhamster

[Panzer]

T5 is a lot better than T4 against all the S4/5 stuff and against S8 (overcharged plasma anyone). It won't turn them into Terminators tho. 

[Aothaine]

Nope. They are better used with chapters that can effectively support them imho. We can. With our 5+++ save banner and other supporting units geared out for other rules they will work great walking up the field. Just have to make sure that you have enough threats to pull fire off of them.

[Silas7]

 

Still T4 3+ like normal marines with an even smaller unit size than terminators, the models are decent with a slight adjustment but the loadout and statline are peculiar. Also flamers are NEVER a primary weapon and most would argue that even tactical squads would rather keep the bolter than pay for a flamer, that's how poor the weapon is.

 

 

 

They're T5.

 

Thats what Gravis does.

 

 

But yes, My point was they are not that great due to being too fragile.

Thanks for the correction, but I think my point that they sit in an awkward space was clear. I really wish they were closer to centurions in regards to equipment.

[necroscope]

I haven't had a chance to use them in a game yet.  I made an impulse buy of the easy to build ones not realizing I was stuck with flamestorm so I guess I'll make the best of it.  Also of the easy to build range I found these guys to be a real pain to get together for some reason.  I'm going to try using them with the Furioso as a team I think.  

[Aothaine]

I also want to point out that they are best used in units of six and with redundancy. I run them in 3 squads of six with the assault bolters and fragstorm.

 

You opponent will have zero chaff left against three units of these boys supported by a primaris captain, Apothecary/Sang Priest, and Primaris Chaplain. Just walk up the board and shred. Great thing about this is you still have enough points to field other scary units in this as well as grab like 3 mix-sized intercessor squads to complete that battalion. Not every list has to have Cpt Smashy pants in it. Blood Angels can build really strong Primaris lists as our red thirst and psychic powers support the weakness of Primaris.. melee. 

 

The list I'm focusing on right now uses the 18 Aggressors as I stated above and three full squads of scout bikers. It has a crazy amount of firepower and hits pretty damn good in melee too. 

 

I am really starting to believe that if you are going to invest so much in them to do this though you need an apothecary and ancient with the 5++ banner. These guys are an all or nothing type unit imho. 

[Karhedron]

I am really starting to believe that if you are going to invest so much in them to do this though you need an apothecary and ancient with the 5++ banner. These guys are an all or nothing type unit imho.

I think this is the key point. Some types of Primaris units can be dropped into an army and do well as they stand. Intercessors can hold your line like better Tactical Marines and Inceptors can flit about on the flanks unleashing firepower. Aggressors are not like that though. They are not cheap enough to act as bullet catchers and their firepower means a sensible opponent will prioritise the destruction of small units. As you say, run them en-masse and support them with some of our toys and they can be really deadly.

 

You probably don't need to run all Aggressors either. Hellblasters are another theatening infantry unit that can run alongside them to deal with tougher targets. It may seem to run a shooty foot-slogging infantry force for BAs but the SoS + Sangy really does change the maths of these units.

[dread05]

Agressors are a money issue for me. I cant  see myself spending 43 euros for 3 models, when I can get 10 hellblasters for 50. Else flamestorm agressors would be my first primaris unit.

[Karhedron]

Agressors are a money issue for me. I cant  see myself spending 43 euros for 3 models, when I can get 10 hellblasters for 50. Else flamestorm agressors would be my first primaris unit.

Different roles. Hellblasters are great for vapourising MEQs but Aggressors will shred chaff whilst also posing a decent threat to tougher models in close combat. Of course if you have a blob of DC for chewing through hordes then you may not need aggressors so much but....

[Aothaine]

 

Different roles. Hellblasters are great for vapourising MEQs but Aggressors will shred chaff whilst also posing a decent threat to tougher models in close combat. Of course if you have a blob of DC for chewing through hordes then you may not need aggressors so much but....

 

 

Don't forget that they also pose threat to vehicles just from the sheer number of shots they output. 6+d6 (S4 0 1) shots per model if moving and double that if they were stationary. It doesn't seem like a lot.. but say you have 18...

 

108+18d6 (S4 0 1) shots hitting on 3+. Again.. double that if stationary. They are brutal. Just need to make sure the rest of the army is as threatening.

[Majkhel]

Don't forget that they also pose threat to vehicles just from the sheer number of shots they output. 6+d6 (S4 0 1) shots per model if moving and double that if they were stationary. It doesn't seem like a lot.. but say you have 18...

 

108+18d6 (S4 0 1) shots hitting on 3+. Again.. double that if stationary. They are brutal. Just need to make sure the rest of the army is as threatening.

But that's 1998pts :)

[Metzombie]

 

Don't forget that they also pose threat to vehicles just from the sheer number of shots they output. 6+d6 (S4 0 1) shots per model if moving and double that if they were stationary. It doesn't seem like a lot.. but say you have 18...

 

108+18d6 (S4 0 1) shots hitting on 3+. Again.. double that if stationary. They are brutal. Just need to make sure the rest of the army is as threatening.

But that's 1998pts

 

18 Bolt Aggressors are 666 points

[Aothaine]

 

18 Bolt Aggressors are 666 points

 

 

 

Is that with the fragstorm?

 

Edit: Checked my list. It is indeed! How perfect!

Edited May 17, 2018 by Aothaine

[Brother Crimson]

Agressors are a money issue for me. I cant see myself spending 43 euros for 3 models, when I can get 10 hellblasters for 50. Else flamestorm agressors would be my first primaris unit.

I understand you, it’s not a cheap kit. If you wish to go flamers there are easy build that are cheaper.

[Majkhel]

18 Bolt Aggressors are 666 points

 

Oh, how stupid mistake I've made :D I counted 111pts for a single model while this is in fact a cost for a squad of 3.

Thanks for pointing this out!

 

[Jolemai]

Aggressors Vs Razorbacks discussion split and merged into BA Today.

[lash144]

I havent run this unit yet, but I´m planing to run 3 x 3 (or 4 x 3) squads at the center of my board to advance them up first turn and clear every chaff T1/T2 to create holes for my assault elements (Captains, Mephiston and AdMech Dragoons).

How feasible is this plan? Anyone tried something like this?

 

Also how many support characters are recommended? I think an Sang. Ancient with the FnP Banner as well as a Smash Cpt are kind of an auto include. Anything else? A Priest/Corbulo maybe or would that be overkill?

[BluejayJunior]

An ancient with the FnP banner helps keep them alive and can let them shoot when they die. A captain and lieutenant with them to reroll 1s to hit and wound will help get more damage through. I only have one unit of 3, but they can do some work. They have enough shots to put wounds onto light vehicles or terminators as well. 

[Karhedron]

As multiwound models, a Sanguinary Novitiate also offers good value in healing/resurrecting them.

 

My concern is how well they work in TAC lists. They excel at culling hordes but not much else. Their small number of power fist attacks can do some work against tougher targets but there is a reason you don't see Terminators used that often and the problem is the swingyness of the power fist. With -1 to Hit and random D3 damage, they can take out big targets but are just as likely to whiff spectacularly.

 

Aggressors just seem too niche to me. Inceptors offer a balance of firepower and mobility and can take plasma to deal with heavier targets. Even bolter Inceptors are quite effective against MEQs with S5 and AP-1.

 

Then again, Orks are coming and maybe Aggressors are the right tool in the box to deal with that enemy. Part of Marines' problems is that GW overcharges in points terms for generalists. Our basic shooting is not good enough to make a serious dent in horde armies and our regular infantry are not tough enough to withstand hordes in assault, since our previous shooting will not have thinned their numbers enough.

 

If you know who you are facing the list tailoring is one option but that is no help if you are trying to build a TAC list. It is easier to build a specialised army and try to overwhelm your opponent on your own terms than it is to build a list designed to stand its ground against a mix of foes.

[Panzer]

Actually with their mass of attacks they're also good at dealing with tougher targets than just hordes. Only when it gets to T8 and/or Sv2+ their S4 spam wouldn't be enough anymore. ~19 shots per model can do a lot more damage than some people think. ;)

[Karhedron]

The problem is that you only get your double-tap if you stand still and that is pretty situational. Your opponent has to come within 18" (bolter version) but not reach melee and not kill them with shooting. You will get the double-tap sometimes but it will tend to mean your opponent has either made a mistake or been unlucky in some way.

 

With their normal shooting, they have the same kill rate as Inceptors vs T4 hordes (although they do edge ahead vs T3). They have more melee power but worse mobility. If you could guarantee their double-tap in some way (like Raven Guard prior to the last FAQ) then they would be worth considering. As it stands their normal fire rate is not enough and their boosted fire rate is too hard to pull off reliably to count on.

 

As for melee, 3 models will average 4 wounds vs T5-T7/3+ targets. Not bad but not amazing. As noted above, they are pretty swingy too. With shooting, they will only average 3 wounds against T5-T7/3+ with their shooting (unless they manage to double-tap). That is pretty mediocre. It might come in handy from time to time but it won't deal with tough targets with any reliability.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Karhedronuk