seriade Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Has anyone else looked at the London GT document? (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QuVR2KdfKO08bBLYw9vobghM_xwhejofmtyXQ7LgQU8/edit) Seems like a lot of mass aggressor spam as well as the raven guard version of the blood angles smash captain. Any thoughts on what you guys see? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 I only got down to Jake Howard and saw 3 Orks 0 Raven Guard. Saw a lot of Hemlocks and Custodes though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5076224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriade Posted May 9, 2018 Author Share Posted May 9, 2018 Yea with over 300 lists in the document I just used ctrl f to search for the words i was interested in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5076491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 For the purposes of trying to spur discussion, here are the lists: PLAYER NAME : Michael Dollin ARMY FACTION : Imperium [Adeptus Ministorum, Space Marine, Astra Miltarum] TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 20 TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 2000 Battalion Detachment, Raven Guard, [426 Points] + 5 CP HQ1: Captain with Jump Pack, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades, - [129pts] HQ2: Librarian with Jump Pack, Force Stave, Storm Bolter, Frag & Krak Grenades - [122pts] Troop1: 5 Scouts, 3* Bolt Pistol and Combat Knife, Heavy Bolter, Sergeant has Boltgun, 5*Frag & Krak Grenades - [65pts] Troop2: 5 Scouts, 4* Bolt Pistol and Combat Knife, Sergeant has Boltgun, 5*Frag & Krak Grenades - [55pts] Troop3: 5 Scouts, 4* Bolt Pistol and Combat Knife, Sergeant has Boltgun, 5*Frag & Krak Grenades - [55pts] Brigade Detachment, Catachan [1061 Points] + 12 CP HQ1: Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken - [75pts] HQ2: Tempestor Prime, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades - [41pts] HQ3: Company Commander, Power Fist, Plasma Pistol, Frag Grenades - [43pts] Elite1: Sergeant Harker - [50pts] Elite2: 6 Special Weapon Squad, 3 Plasma Guns, 6* Frag Grenades - [45pts] Elite3: 4 Command Squad, Lascannon, Lasgun, 2* Laspistol and Chainsword, Regimental Standard, 4*Frag Grenade - [49pts] Elite4: 10 Veterans, 3 * Plasma Gun, Sergeant has Plasma Pistol and Chainsword 10*Frag Grenades - [104pts] FA1: 5 Rough Riders, 5 * Frag Grenades, 4* Las pistol, Chainsword, Trampling Hooves, 5* Hunting Lance, Sergeant has Plasma Pistol, Chainsword, Trampling Hooves - [55pts] FA2: 5 Rough Riders, 5 * Frag Grenades, 5* Las pistol, Chainsword, Trampling Hooves, 5* Hunting Lance - [50pts] FA3: 5 Rough Riders, 5 * Frag Grenades, 5* Las pistol, Chainsword, Trampling Hooves, 5* Hunting Lance - [50pts] HS1: 3 Heavy Weapons Squad, 3* Mortar, 3* Lasgun - [33pts] HS2: 3 Heavy Weapons Squad, 3* Mortar, 3* Lasgun - [33pts] HS3: 3 Heavy Weapons Squad, 3* Mortar, 3* Lasgun - [33pts] Troop1: 10 Infantry Squad, 9 Lasgun, Sergeant has Laspistol & Chainsword,10 * Frag Grenades - [40pts] Troop2: 10 Infantry Squad, 9 Lasgun, Sergeant has Laspistol & Chainsword,10 * Frag Grenades - [40pts] Troop3: 10 Infantry Squad, 9 Lasgun, Sergeant has Laspistol & Chainsword,10 * Frag Grenades - [40pts] Troop4: 10 Infantry Squad, Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Sergeant has Boltgun and Chainsword, 10 * Frag Grenades - [68pts] Troop5: 10 Infantry Squad, Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Sergeant has Boltgun and Chainsword, 10 * Frag Grenades - [68pts] Troop6: 10 Militarum Tempestus Scions, 5 Hot-Shot Lasguns, 4 Plasma Guns, Tempestor has Plasma Pistol and Chainsword, 10*Frag&Krak Grenades - [152pts] Patrol Detachment, Adeptus Ministorum, [513 Points] + 0 CP HQ1: Celestine WARLORD - 2 Geminae Superia - [250pts] HQ2: Cannoness, Bolt Pistol, Power Sword [49pts] Relic ‘Blade of Admonition’ Troop1: 7 Battle Sisters, 7 Bolt pistol, Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter, 7*Frag & Krak Grenades, Sister Superior Has Stormbolter - [77pts] Elite1: Ministorum Priest, Laspistol, Frag & Krak Grenades - [35pts] FA1: 6 Seraphim, Two Pairs of Inferno Pistols, Three Pairs of Bolt Pistols, Sister Superior has Bolt Pistol and Chainsword, 6* Frag & Krak Grenades - [102pts] PLAYER NAME: Paolo Rizzo ARMY FACTION: Imperium, Astra militarum, Cadian, Adeptus Astartes, Raven guard. TOTAL COMMANDPOINTS: 10 CP TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 2000pts Battalion Detachment, Imperium, Astra militarum, Cadian [331pts] +5CP HQ1: Company commander, laspistol, frag grenades - [30pts] HQ2: Company commander, laspistol, frag grenades - [30pts] Troop1: Infantry squad, laspistol (on sergent), 9 lasgun, 10 frag grenadas - [40pts] Troop2: Infantry squad, laspistol (on sergent), 9 lasgun, 10 frag grenadas - [40pts] Troop3: Infantry squad, laspistol (on sergent), 9 lasgun, 10 frag grenadas - [40pts] Troop4: Infantry squad, laspistol (on sergent), 9 lasgun, 10 frag grenadas - [40pts] Troop5: Infantry squad, laspistol (on sergent), 9 lasgun, 10 frag grenadas, mortar (5) - [45pts] HS1: Heavy weapons squad, 3 lasguns, frag grenadas, 3 mortar - [33pts] HS2: Heavy weapons squad, 3 lasguns, frag grenadas, 3 mortar - [33pts] Vanguard detachment, Imperium, Adeptus, Raven guard [817pts] + 1CP HQ1: Captain with jump pack, the armour indomitus (relic), power lance, chainsword, bolt pistol, frag grenades, krak grenades - WARLORD - [97pts] Elite1: Aggressor squad, 2 additional aggressor, 5 auto boltstorm gauntlets, 5 fragstorm grenade launcher - [185pts] Elite2: Aggressor squad, 2 additional aggressor, 5 auto boltstorm gauntlets, 5 fragstorm grenade launcher - [185pts] Elite3: Aggressor squad, 2 additional aggressor, 5 auto boltstorm gauntlets, 5 fragstorm grenade launcher - [185pts] HS1: Devastator squad, 5 bolt pistol, frag grenades, krak grenades, 4 lascannons - [165pts] Air wing detachment, Imperium, Adeptus Astartes, Raven guard [852pts] +1CP Flyers1: Xiphon interceptor, 2 twin lascannon, xiphon missile battery -[240pts] Flyers2: Stormtalon gunship, twin assault cannon, 2 lascannon - [204pts] Flyers3: Stormtalon gunship, twin assault cannon, 2 lascannon - [204pts] Flyers4: Stormtalon gunship, twin assault cannon, 2 lascannon - [204pts] LAYER NAME: Daniel Kovacs ARMY FACTIONS: Imperium: Imperial Knights + Space Marines (Raven Guard) TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 7 TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 1989 pts Super-Heavy Detachment, Imperium - Imperial Knights [1536 Points] + 3 CP LORD OF WAR1: Knight Crusader, Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer, Heavy stubber, Thermal cannon - [512pts] - WARLORD LORD OF WAR2: Knight Crusader, Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer, Heavy stubber, Thermal cannon - [512pts LORD OF WAR3: Knight Crusader, Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer, Heavy stubber, Thermal cannon - [512pts Vanguard Detachment, Imperium - Space Marines (Raven Guard) [453pts] +1CP HQ1: Librarian - (Psychic Scourge, Null Zone), Bolt pistol, Force sword, Jump Pack - [120pts] ELITE1: Aggressor Squad - 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant, Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher - [111pts] ELITE2: Aggressor Squad - 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant, Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher - [111pts] ELITE3: Aggressor Squad - 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant, Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher - [111pts] PLAYER NAME: Harry Shapland ARMY FACTION: Space marines and imperial guard TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 9 TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 2000 pts Battalion detachment, Raven guard chapter [1058 points] +5 CP HQ1: Captain, Master crafter boltgun, power sword – WARLORD – RELIC ARMOUR INDOMITUS – [81pts] HQ2: Primaris lieutenant, power sword - [74pts] HQ3: Primaris Librarian, force sword, bolt pistol - [101pts] Troop1: 5 man tactical squad, lascannon, power sword - [94pts] Troop2: 5 man tactical squad, lascannon, power sword - [94pts] Troop3: 5 man tactical squad, lascannon, power sword - [94pts] Troop4: 10 man intercessor squad, power sword, auxiliary grenade launcher - [185pts] HS1: 5 man devastators squad, Chainsword, 4 missile launchers, Armorium cherub - [170pts] HS2: 5 man hellblaster squad, 5 plasma incinerators - [165pts] Spearhead detachment, Catachan regiment [942 points] +1cp HQ1: Tank commander, battle cannon, lascannon, track guard - [219pts] HQ2: Primaris psyker, force stave, laspistol – [40pts] Trooop1: 10 man infantry squad, 9 lasguns, laspistol on sergeant, chainsword on sergeant – [40pts] Elite1: Platoon commander, Pistol, chainsword – [20pts] HS1: 2 Leman Russ battle tanks, 2 battle cannons, 2 heavy bolters – [304pts] HS2: Manticore, 4 storm eagle rockets, heavy bolter – [143pts] HS3: Manticore, 4 storm eagle rockets, heavy bolter – [143pts] HS4: 3 man heavy weapon team, 3 mortars – [33pts] PLAYER NAME: Patrik Sanfilippo ARMY FACTIONS: Imperium TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 10 TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 1997 pts Battalion Detachment,Raven Guard [653 Points] + 5 CP HQ1: Kyvan Shrike, Raven’s talon, frag grenades, krak grenades - [150pts] HQ2: Lieutenant with jump pack, power fists, chainsword, bolt pistol, frag grenades, krak grenades - [90pts] Troop1: 5 Scouts Squad, 5x combat knife, 5x bolt pistol, 5x frag grenades, 5 krak grenades – [55pts] Troop2: 5 Scouts Squad, 5x combat knife, 5x bolt pistol, 5x frag grenades, 5 krak grenades – [55pts] Troop3: 5 Intercessors, 5x bolt rifle, 5x frag grenades, 5 krak grenades, axillary grenade launcher – [91pts] Troop4: 5 Intercessors, 5x bolt rifle, 5x frag grenades, 5 krak grenades, axillary grenade launcher – [91pts] HS1: Thunderfire Cannon, techmarine gunner, 2x servo-arms, bolt pistol, plasma cutter, flamer – [121pts] Vanguard Detachment,Raven Guard [864Points] +1CP HQ1: Captain with jump pack, thunder hammer, storm shield, bolt pistol, frag grenades, krak grenades, storm of fire warlord trait, WARLORD* - [129pts] Elite1: 6 Aggressors Squad, 6x auto boltstorm gauntlets, 6x fragstorm grenade launcher - [222pts] Elite2: 6 Aggressors Squad, 6x auto boltstorm gauntlets, 6x fragstorm grenade launcher - [222pts] Elite3: 6 Aggressors Squad, 6x auto boltstorm gauntlets, 6x fragstorm grenade launcher - [222pts] Elite4: Primaris Ancient, bolt rifle, bolt pistol, frag grenades, krak grenades, Standard of the emperor ascendant RELIC – [69pts] Supreme Command Detachment, Adeptus Custodes [480 Points] +1 CP HQ 1: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike, inceptor lance, hurricane bolter – [160pts] HQ 2: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike, inceptor lance, hurricane bolter – [160pts] HQ 3: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike, inceptor lance, hurricane bolter – [160pts] Player Name: Philip Elliott Army Factions: Blood Angels: Space Marines(Raven Guard): Adeptus Custodes Total Command Points: 10 Total Army Points 1999pts 130PL Battalion Detachment: Blood Angels (points) +5CP [1057pts, 79PL] HQ1: Captain, Jump Pack, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, –WARLORD – Relic (Angels Wings replaces jump pack) [129pts, 6PL] HQ2: Lemartes [129pts, 7PL] Troop1: 4xScouts 1xScout Sergeant, 5xBoltguns, 1x Chainsword [55pts, 4PL] Troop2: 4xScouts 1xScout Sergeant, 5xBoltguns, 1x Chainsword [55pts, 4PL] Troop3: 4xScouts 1xScout Sergeant, 5xBoltguns, 1x Chainsword [55pts, 4PL] Elites1: 15xDeath Company, 15xJump Packs, 8xChainsword+Boltpistol, 7xBoltpistol+Power Sword, [328pts, 27PL] Elites2: 9xDeath Company, 9xJump Packs, 5xChainsword+Boltpistol, 4xBoltpistol+Power Sword [196pts, 18PL] Elites3: 5xDeath Company, 5xJump Packs, 3xChainsword+Boltpistol, 2xBoltpistol+Power Axe [110pts, 9PL] Supreme Command Detachment: adeptus Custodes +1CP [480pts, 27PL] HQ3: Shield Captain on Dawneagle, Hurricane Bolters [160pts, 9PL] HQ4: Shield Captain on Dawneagle, Hurricane Bolters [160pts, 9PL] HQ5: Shield Captain on Dawneagle, Hurricane Bolters [160pts, 9PL] Vanguard Detachment: Space Marines(Ravenguard) +1CP [462pts, 24PL] HQ6: Captain, Jump Pack, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer - [129pts, 6PL] Elites4: 2x Aggressors 1x Aggressor Sergeant, 3xAuto Boltstorm, Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, [111pts, 6PL] Elites5: 2x Aggressors 1x Aggressor Sergeant, 3xAuto Boltstorm, Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, [111pts, 6PL] Elites6: 2x Aggressors 1x Aggressor Sergeant, 3xAuto Boltstorm, Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, [111pts, 6PL] Note: I did my best to redact all the unit/equipment costs, and keep it in line with board rules. If I missed a unit, my apologies! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5076844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Vyper, you did good for points :tu: This is an excellent service to the topic. As I don't play in tournaments, I have no constructive opinion worth sharing ^_^ EXCEPT, that I enjoyed looking at a list where a different Codex was used to represent the Raven Guard :ph34r: Just wanted to share that :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5076851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
taikishi Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 1st list is better served taking the Priest in the IG detachment so that he gets access to Purity of Faith and Martyrdom and so that the BSSs keep Objective Secured since the faction keyword per Chapter Approved is Adepta Sororitas (which it loses by adding the Priest, thus becoming Ministorum) and not Adeptus Ministorum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5077051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Vyper, you did good for points This is an excellent service to the topic. As I don't play in tournaments, I have no constructive opinion worth sharing EXCEPT, that I enjoyed looking at a list where a different Codex was used to represent the Raven Guard Just wanted to share that Yes nice work ItVyper, Even using Ctr F it wasn't easy to navigate. Which one is using a alt-Chapter for Raven Guard? I'm actually curious to why it seems bolt pistol and combat knife are a bit more popular than boltgun for Scouts? Is it because (assuming) they are being forward deployed and more likely to be involved in melee out weighs the range difference? I've actually decided to abandon my conversion of the Sniper Scouts and convert Reivers into "count as" Scouts instead. Just weighing the pros and cons. I easily see the Aggressor spam. I think their effectiveness was overlooked until recently because the unusual look of the model. I wasn't a big fan until I started building mine but in this meta theyre going to get more popular especially as Raven Guard. I'm surprised I'm not seeing also more Raven Guard Hellblasters actually. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5077083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Which one is using a alt-Chapter for Raven Guard? Last list: Philip Elliott Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5077115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriade Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 Well he is using both to be fair. But the list I like the most is the 2nd last one seems like an acual raven guard list compared to a few of the others. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5077152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mertbl Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Thanks for doing that. I wasn't finding anything on my phone. Pretty interesting lists. Suprised to see that many aggressor units and full squads of 6. I guess the plan is to get close and drown them in shots. The lists look pretty close to what I'm probably going to end up running. Aggressors, vanguard, cadians for AT, artillery. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5077264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Some interesting tidbits in those lists. Shrike is so good in this edition IMO, but the TH captain is a great choice. I use him on bike myself, make the most of his warlord rule (no overwatch) using the longer base to multi charge where possible. I was wondering why the combat blades on regular scouts, surely the shotguns would be a better shout if your using close up, bolters for options at range? I personally think aggressors would work well flamed up for sfts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5077379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriade Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 I think the point of the cc scouts is to tie up screens and to cause them to collapse to create holes in the opponents line. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5077395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 I think the point of the cc scouts is to tie up screens and to cause them to collapse to create holes in the opponents line. This. Both lists running BP/CCW RG Scouts clearly have a firebase heavy list that is revolving around trading with an enemy where you are in a favorable position. The scouts do this one of two ways: 1) Creating "safe" deployment zones to either SFTS or Deep Strike into (Or functioning as "super bubblewrap") 2) Promptly charging and tying up what they can right off the hop If they find themselves constantly using them for the 2nd option, it makes sense to swap to the BP/CCW configuration. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5077503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 I'm definitely altering my fundamental 2k list to run three Scout squads (with three Intercessors for a Double Battalion) to create safe zones for SftS and DS. I've never thought of Scouts as an effective melee unit for Marines, but in that context, using them as an aggressive throw away unit makes sense I suppose. I've always been reluctant to "throw away" any Marine unit, but I'll have to rethink that before I settle on how to convert the Reivers to <Scouts>. I see what you're GC08 getting at with the shotguns. If they're holding position and absorbing a charge, that definitely makes sense, but if they're moving forward charging I'm not so sure. Common sense says take don't take a gun to a knife fight, but I'm guess both are viable choices considering how long I'd expect Scouts to last in a fight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5077654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 I think the difference is if you expect them to be in a protracted combat, in a single round, the 2 shots from the S5 shotgun plus the charge is mathematically better than the extra attack and s4 pistol shot. once you get into second rounds and beyond the extra attack pays dividends. But realistically how long do 5 scouts last in combat? edit: against t3 there is no difference, my maths assumes T4 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5077665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Oh, gee whiz. Looks at all those Supreme Command detachments jammed with Shield Captains on Jetbikes. Soooooo fun to play against. Definitely. Sarcasm aside, I figure Custodes are primed for a kick in the pants in the next big update. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5078906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Oh, gee whiz. Looks at all those Supreme Command detachments jammed with Shield Captains on Jetbikes. Soooooo fun to play against. Definitely. Sarcasm aside, I figure Custodes are primed for a kick in the pants in the next big update. While I get what you're saying, having play tested the Shield Captains, I don't think they are too strong and need nerfed. One thing I wish GW would do more of when it comes to balance and the update is buffing things that are behind, rather than nerfing everything that feels ahead. Some things in this game do feel necessary to be nerfed (See: Malefic Lords for a great example). More often than not though, its a case of mediocre units that should have been strengthened instead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5078926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 My problem with them is that they're always run in the same fashion and load out. Trio in Supreme Command detachment as a bolt-on solution for any Imperium army. They've become a no-brainer selection, which IMO flags a unit for modification via an update. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5078961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 I get what you're saying. While they are good at a lot of things, I think what makes them exceptionally strong is a 3-prong approach: 1) They are tough as nails, especially when chosen as Warlord and unlocking relics to get their 3++ on 2 of the 3 Captains 2) They are characters so can't be shot at unless closest (this pairs very strongly with our scouts) 3) They have objective secured These 3 factors combined with their mobility makes them a very impressive tool in a world where Maelstrom objectives are what you live and die by. What they can kill is a pretty distant secondary concern. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5078968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firenze Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 God... looking at some of these lists Im so gonna struggle to fight them with my tau list... Although it was performing better than my Raptors :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5078969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 I get what you're saying. While they are good at a lot of things, I think what makes them exceptionally strong is a 3-prong approach: 1) They are tough as nails, especially when chosen as Warlord and unlocking relics to get their 3++ on 2 of the 3 Captains 2) They are characters so can't be shot at unless closest (this pairs very strongly with our scouts) 3) They have objective secured These 3 factors combined with their mobility makes them a very impressive tool in a world where Maelstrom objectives are what you live and die by. What they can kill is a pretty distant secondary concern. This combined with a cheap Brigade worth of CP is what makes them effective in tournaments. If they were a mono-army I believe they would be fairly balanced with other dex's. Not counting Eldar and maybe Nids mind you. I'd probably use it in competitive play if I was "all in" but 'm not a fan of Soup. The real culprit in my mind though is the Supreme Command Detachment. It just needs, absolutely NEEDS to be eliminated from Match Play in my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5079156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mertbl Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 I'd probably use it in competitive play if I was "all in" but 'm not a fan of Soup. The real culprit in my mind though is the Supreme Command Detachment. It just needs, absolutely NEEDS to be eliminated from Match Play in my opinion. You could put it in with a requirement that it share 2 keywords with your biggest(point or pl) detachment. Similar to the new "battle brothers" rule. Leaves it available to those of us not looking to squeeze in 3 shield captains. (I use it with my imp guard to add psykers) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5079946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
taikishi Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 The problem I have with both of these suggestions on the Supreme Command detachment is that, right now, it's one of only three ways you can bring Inquisitors because of the soup rule being too broad based: 1. Supreme Command detachment of 3 Inquisitors 2. Vanguard detachment of Inquisitors + 3 units acolytes, Jokaero or Daemonhosts 3. by itself as an Auxiliary Support detachment, losing 1 CP in the process. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5079960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 1 - no 2 & 3 - yes I don’t hate Soup, I’m just not a fan for competitive play. In my opinion Competitve play should be mono-Dex. It’s best way to test each and make adjustment so every army ends up actually on equal footing. What’s the point system for if it’s inaccurate all the time? That said I can live with competitve Soups but Supreme Command is too easy to abuse in Match Play and Rule of Three is no help in this instance. That Detachment just needs to go in competitive play in my opinion. There are other ways to get those choices. I thinks it’s a bit overkill that Battalions can have as many HQ choices as Troops, and Brigades can have up to 5. Mines probably not the right answer in a bigger picture but I don’t think it’s a crazy solution either ... and it could be I would just like to once see the Vanilla Marine Codex as a top three competitively (No, Bobby G doesn’t count) I’d like to see a game where Marine Troops were effective even relatively close to the fluff - which might be why I hold a grudge for the Custodes ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5080199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sultansean Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 One reason for the close combat scouts instead of shotguns is that you're often looking to tie up units rather than kill them. The scouts have the danger of actually doing damage with their shots and your opponent removing the closer models giving you a more difficult charge. I was waiting for the aggressors to come to the fore. I proxied them in mass once (with my terminators who are now suffering from an inferiority complex) and found them to be extremely effective. I was running them with Shrike for the mass re-rolls but a captain with storm of fire is a great idea, and you can always spend the CP to Chapter Master him. Man I hate soup though. Soup armies shouldn't get the CP for being battle forged at least that would be some incentive to not bring blood angels and guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347057-raven-guard-lists-from-london-gt/#findComment-5081713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.