DW Veterans

[L30n1d4s]

I think the humble DW Veteran, equipped as below, may be the new "Grey

Hunter" of the game (i.e. referencing 5th edition, when you could not beat

GHs for their value/versatility in the Troops slot), especially when riding

in Rhinos and supported by Watch Masters:

 

-Base Veteran Model

-Chain Sword

-Storm Bolter with SIA

 

So, for 20 points a model, you get a MEQ with 3A at S4 base and the

following shooting options:

 

4 x S4 AP-1 D1 shots at 15"

4 x S4 AP-2 D1 shots at 9"

4 x S-AP0 D1 shots at 12" that always wound on a 2+ against non-vehicles

 

Combine this with a "built-in" re-roll of 1s to Hit against a certain FOC

type (thanks to Mission Tactics) and the ability to add +1 to wound at will

via their "Doctrine" stratagems and you can put out a ton of damage with

these guys in both shooting and close combat. Adding in the layer of

re-rolling all to Hits in both shooting and combat because of a nearby Watch

Master (who is quite affordable and can be taken up to three times in your

army, since he is not Unique) and you have a versatile unit that handle

almost any kind of opponent.

 

With all this offensive capability, I think there are two significant

vulnerabilites for the DW Veteran... lack of mobility (i.e. standard

infantry 6" move) and lack of durability for price (i.e. only T4 1W 3+ save

for 20 points).

 

The easy solution to all this is Rhinos. Not only do they provide solid

mobility to get the DW Veterans to their target, but they provide very

substantial (and afforable) durability while doing so, enabling the pricey

DW Veterans to get with Rapid Fire range and make maximum use of their Storm

Bolters with SIA, which is one of their best traits.

 

So, how might this look on the table top? Well, say you took a Battalion as

follows:

 

---------------------------------------------

HQ

-Watch Master

-Watch Master

 

TR

-9 DW Veterans with SBs/Chainswords, and SBs/Thunder Hammers on Black

Shield/Watch Sergeant

-9 DW Veterans with SBs/Chainswords, and SBs/Thunder Hammers on Black

Shield/Watch Sergeant

-10 DW Veterans with SBs/Chainswords, and SBs/Thunder Hammers on Black

Shield/Watch Sergeant

 

DT

Rhino

Rhino

Rhino

---------------------------------------------

 

This costs just over a 1000 points, leaving you with plenty of space in a

2000 point game to flesh out your army with more Deathwatch, Imperium

allies, and/or long fire support from Forge World options like Xiphon

Interceptors, Rapier Carriers, Sicaran Battle Tanks, Mortis Dreads, etc.

 

By itself, this force put out up to 112 BS3+ and 4 x BS2+ SIA Bolter shots a

turn when in Rapid Fire Range, which coupled with re-rolls to Hit from the

Watch Masters, re-rolls to Wound from Mission Tactics, and +1 to Wound from

Doctrine Stratagems, can really punish almost anything they shoot at.

Additionally, they can follow up the shooting with a charge that gives them

66 x S4 AP0 Dmg 1 attacks, 18 x S8 AP-3 Dmg 3 attacks, and 8 x S5 AP-3 Dmg

D3 attacks again, all buffed by Watch Master re-rolls, Mission Tactics, and

to wound enhancing Stratagems as required.

 

Finally, if you want to enhance survivability a little more, then give you

Watchmaster WL the trait that grants a FNP 6+++ for all units within 6" of

him, making your entire force 16% more survivable as long as they are close

to him.

[Time of madness]

I agree that the Storm Bolter options looks the best on the vets.

 

The other stars of the codex is the bikes. 6 bikes which includes a Sgt with Storm Bolter puts out a ton of damage! And for well under 200pts.

[shandwen]

I'm looking at squads of 6 or so, with some stormshield/bolter guys to tank wounds. Now if only I can find a half dozen more storm bolters...

[Chris521]

I've just finished assembling the following battalion to go with my guard.  The numbers are based on the models I had available.

 

watch captain: Jetpack, storm bolter, xeno blade (just cause it looks cool)

Terminator librarian: Storm bolter. staff

 

 

and then the important part

 

2 Kill teams with:

 

3 storm bolter, Chainsword

2 Storm bolter, storm shield

1 Frag cannon

 

and 1 kill team with

 

2 storm bolter, storm shield

3 frag cannon

 

The entire army can deepstrike and do some significant damage. Turn 2 should be painful for my opponent

 

While the storm bolters will shred infantry, I hope the frag cannon will get to shoot something beefy after deep striking by split firing.  If they survive a turn, they can pour it on the infantry

[Prot]

Leo I think you’re right. That’s an excellent foundation but I have the unpopular vision of being able to use Primaris marines effectively In this army.

 

I mean I actually put together a bunch of Primaris with the -1 bolt rifles just for this Codex.

 

I think the base vets are in a great place though.

[Sawtooth]

Leo I think you’re right. That’s an excellent foundation but I have the unpopular vision of being able to use Primaris marines effectively In this army.

 

I mean I actually put together a bunch of Primaris with the -1 bolt rifles just for this Codex.

 

I think the base vets are in a great place though.

I am with you on the Primaris train, but I do agree that this setup for vets looks very nice.

 

Another option beyond Rhinos is the Teleportarium Stratagem. Depending on lists there might be better options but it's something to keep in mind.

[N1SB]

Was talking to a tourney player who actually had a sneak peek of the Codex as well.  I was talking Intercessors with special issue ammo, he kept talking Veterans:

 

+ Chainswords

+ Rhinos

+ Thunderhammers whoever could carry one

+ buffing characters

 

Then he said something weird to me, because we played 30k and Zone Mortalis ages ago (i.e. about a year ago), and he said, "Breachers have a use now," meaning:

 

+ some Storm Shields (now I'm not sure of the mix, but he's thinking of just a few per squad)

 

The other funny thing was he wasn't quite sure about Storm Bolters yet, ONLY because of the points.  And I know he's a huge fan of them.  Kept going back and forth.

 

Just current thoughts.  Guy is a reliable source and competitive player with consistent results, so just sharing.

[ashc]

I can see myself needing a little shopping list of new veteran load outs.

 

- storm bolter and chainsword

- storm bolter and storm shield

 

Any others people think will see use?

 

Are VV's with dual plasma pistols still a thing that people use and are in the new book?

 

Terminator loadouts?

[Charlo]

Is the Stormbolter a codex option or index?

[gitface]

So I've rustled up some new recruits to my Deathwatch and was considering what to give them.  I must admit when I first got them I wanted to go with Stormbolters but always found it odd that they didn't get SIA, now we have got SIA on Stormbolters that is what I'll be giving them.

 

So I have nine fresh faced recruits and was going with:

 

5x Stormbolter and Stormsheild

 

And either

 

4x Stormbolter and Chainsword

or

4x Stormbotler and Power Weapon/Hammer

 

Chainsword are cheap but Power Weapons have the pen.

[ashc]

I've seen one or two people mentioning thunder hammers too - are they cheap enough to be worth taking?

 

I feel like I'm asking a lot of questions and not providing many answers! :)

[LilNath]

Just when I thought I had enough DW veterans... I have been using Stormshield/Bolter guys to protect my frag cannons. This is definitely looking like a strong loadout though.

 

In regards to Primaris kill teams I really hope they're as strong as they look. 5 Stalker Intercessors + 4 Heavy Hellblasters + 1 Agressor sounds like the best time.

 

I think SIA in storm bolters, the already amazing frag cannons and Primaris kill teams really mixes the army up, but I still don't think DW will make a huge splash in the competitive scene. I'm just happy that I can play against codex armies and not get totally destroyed!

 

Edit: Ashc, I really like them on black shields. They really put the hurt on most things your kill team will come up against.

 

 

LilNath

[Lemondish]

Blackshields still can't take the Heavy Thunder Hammer, right? I know it isn't the best use of points, but I love that model. 

 

Also love the normal dw boltgun. Wondering if it's an acceptable exchange to use the points saved from not using storm bolters to put into special/heavy weapons instead. 15 points saved per 5 man squad - not sure how much that will help. I personally like to keep the ablative wounds as cheap as possible, but I suppose with transports and Primaris on the board first, the glasscannon Vets would be better off doing as much damage as possible...

[LilNath]

You're right Lemondish, I was thinking of regular thunder hammers. I'm not too fond of the HTH from a rules perspective, but it look so cool!

 

 

LilNath

[6262]

I use my HTH as thunder hammers just because they look so much better. And have whatever other wargear on the model to cover my bases

[Lemondish]

I use my HTH as thunder hammers just because they look so much better. And have whatever other wargear on the model to cover my bases

 

I'll probably do the same. Bit of a bummer we can't give it to the 3 attack guy, though. With the rerolls on wounds and the +1 wound strat, he'd have a pretty good chance at that instant 6 damage. While situational and probably not worth the points that would be one hell of a fun sequence. 

 

Probably just going to equip that black shield with a pair of lightning claws for the reroll wounds and extra attack. 

[ashc]

Previous edition my blackshield had a power sword and axe, however I think he needs his arms chopped off and equipment reissued!

[Delta.Skies]

Rn, before the codex I had:

1 sarge with bolted and xeno blade

2 bolter w stormshields

2 frag cannons

 

My Regret (buying sanguinary bolter arm bits)

1 sarge with bolter and xeno blade

1 black shield with 2 lightning claws

3 vets with power axes and bolters

 

1 sarge w chainsword and stalker bolter (might switch him to combi flamer now)

1 VV w chainsword and bolt pistol

3 vets with stalker bolters and SS

1 heavy bolter

 

Now that stormbolters have sia. I'm like damn just bought these bits and currently painting the frag cannon squad where the stormbolters should be. But that would bring them back up to their normal point in the index. So I may place them somewhere else or just make a substitute squad if need be.

 

But to save points think I may just keep them at bolters.

 

Question, does taking a combat shield affect a sergeant's loadout. All I saw was may take combat shield.

[Prot]

In regards to Primaris kill teams I really hope they're as strong as they look. 5 Stalker Intercessors + 4 Heavy Hellblasters + 1 Agressor sounds like the best time.

 

I think SIA in storm bolters, the already amazing frag cannons and Primaris kill teams really mixes the army up, but I still don't think DW will make a huge splash in the competitive scene. I'm just happy that I can play against codex armies and not get totally destroyed!

 

 

 

LilNath

 

 

- Agreed on both counts. I want to get my Hellblasters dropping in with a nasty mix of aggressors and Intercessors (which I think will do alright with SIA).

[GrinNfool]

I use my HTH as thunder hammers just because they look so much better. And have whatever other wargear on the model to cover my bases

Haha I have 1 model with HTH for this exact reason... they just look awesome.  I think I have a plan to actually get it some use too, combat squadding 5 stalker bolt vets with 4 bikes and 1 vanguard vet with my HTH.  Might actually get to smash a vehicle or monster, especially with burning 2 CP for +1 to wound rolls so 6 damage on 5s or 6s.

[6262]

I'm planning to do that as well. Can't decide though if I should pay for a storm shield on the hammer vanguard vet or stick with a pistol

[Delta.Skies]

I'm planning to do that as well. Can't decide though if I should pay for a storm shield on the hammer vanguard vet or stick with a pistol

I say bolt pistol and chainsword. Since the chainsword gives you an extra attack and since it's not allocated to just the chainsword you can put it on your sia bolt pistol. Wound on 2s or go for the -ap. Least from my interpretation and what I've seen in tactics.

[Lemondish]

 

I'm planning to do that as well. Can't decide though if I should pay for a storm shield on the hammer vanguard vet or stick with a pistol

I say bolt pistol and chainsword. Since the chainsword gives you an extra attack and since it's not allocated to just the chainsword you can put it on your sia bolt pistol. Wound on 2s or go for the -ap. Least from my interpretation and what I've seen in tactics.

I don't think that's right. The chainsword rule says "with this weapon" for the extra attack.

[Moostick]

 

 

I'm planning to do that as well. Can't decide though if I should pay for a storm shield on the hammer vanguard vet or stick with a pistol

I say bolt pistol and chainsword. Since the chainsword gives you an extra attack and since it's not allocated to just the chainsword you can put it on your sia bolt pistol. Wound on 2s or go for the -ap. Least from my interpretation and what I've seen in tactics.

I don't think that's right. The chainsword rule says "with this weapon" for the extra attack.

 

 

Lemondish is right, but the pistol is not a melee weapon and is not used in the assault phase. You shoot the pistol in the shooting phase even if you're in combat, so it wouldn't have worked anyways even if that was the case.

 

Something a lot of people (myself included) tend to forget and they miss their chance to shoot their pistols in combat.

[6262]

The number of times I've forgotten pistols exist could probably fill the void.  I've never shot them during a game.  One day I'll remember that Pistols exist once I'm in a combat.

 

I've been thinking about loading Razorbacks with 5 SB / Chainsword Vets and maybe a Frag Cannon to round out the capacity of the vehicles; but I'm having a hard time letting my Blackstars go.