DW Veterans

[SnakeChisler]

Transport wise Razorbacks work pretty well if you keep them basic as in Heavy Bolter & Storm Bolter

 

Sgt with a power weapon is a decent option as is a Blackshield with twin lightning claws

 

I've a load of shotgun models so will probably run 5/6 in a Razorback see how they go, if your up against hordes they'll do work but not sure their really worth it.

[Lysere]

If you're going to use shotguns it's probably best to build the entire unit around them. The nice thing is with cryptclearer rounds you can go after whatever and not care about mission tactics. Probably great for dealing with troops in a list that doesn't have many so you can use mission tactics on another slot.

[Lemondish]

We had universal deepstrike and very cheap drop pods in 7th (that could carry everything!) without the 9" rule. We were even able to get within flamer range the turn we DSed if we got lucky.

 

Marines are actually even less durable now in 8th compared to 7th, plus this beta rule that may or may not stick, weakens this style of play a lot. This is where me often saying that within the core rules themselves (excluding strategems), this codex really didn't give us anything "new" comes from, except SIA on SBs. We've had and used all these things before.

To clarify, my comment was coming from an 8th edition perspective - positioning and board control are more important than in 7th after all.

 

But I understand what you mean. I can only share my experience though, and it's been really positive with a veteran build using a decent number of durability toys is all.

[SwashBuccaneer]

If you're going to use shotguns it's probably best to build the entire unit around them. The nice thing is with cryptclearer rounds you can go after whatever and not care about mission tactics. Probably great for dealing with troops in a list that doesn't have many so you can use mission tactics on another slot.

 

 

I've been debating on making a kill team with close combat focus with shotguns from Vets. What kind of suggestions for loadouts do you recommend

[Lysere]

 

If you're going to use shotguns it's probably best to build the entire unit around them. The nice thing is with cryptclearer rounds you can go after whatever and not care about mission tactics. Probably great for dealing with troops in a list that doesn't have many so you can use mission tactics on another slot.

 

 

I've been debating on making a kill team with close combat focus with shotguns from Vets. What kind of suggestions for loadouts do you recommend

 

 

Honestly I'm not sure since only assault weapons can advance and fire and while it's not something you'll probably do every turn you'll waste shooting if you do with mixed weapons. Lightning claws might be a good assault weapon to pair with them since those also re-roll regardless so can be used to hunt targets you aren't using mission tactics against.

 

Perhaps deepstrike or beacon them in, run a terminator with claws, a biker with a PW, and vanguard with Claws. Vanguard and Shotgun vets can be the first casualties depending on the situation and you'll be able to get in close and menace infantry of all flavors. Once in the enemy lines the vanguard can help trap units, and them and the biker allow you to fallback, use the flame rounds with the shotguns, and then mob another target. Plus on the approach you can advance if needed and only waste the shooting of one model, the bike.

 

Not sure about overall effectiveness but that's how I'd run it if I did. Personally if I do a bunch of shotguns it'll probably just be mostly shotguns and a couple terminators or something deepstriking in or camping on the front lines. Just enough to be annoying.

[Danny Cyanide]

Shotguns and meltaguns!

[SwashBuccaneer]

 

 

If you're going to use shotguns it's probably best to build the entire unit around them. The nice thing is with cryptclearer rounds you can go after whatever and not care about mission tactics. Probably great for dealing with troops in a list that doesn't have many so you can use mission tactics on another slot.

 

 

I've been debating on making a kill team with close combat focus with shotguns from Vets. What kind of suggestions for loadouts do you recommend

 

 

Honestly I'm not sure since only assault weapons can advance and fire and while it's not something you'll probably do every turn you'll waste shooting if you do with mixed weapons. Lightning claws might be a good assault weapon to pair with them since those also re-roll regardless so can be used to hunt targets you aren't using mission tactics against.

 

Perhaps deepstrike or beacon them in, run a terminator with claws, a biker with a PW, and vanguard with Claws. Vanguard and Shotgun vets can be the first casualties depending on the situation and you'll be able to get in close and menace infantry of all flavors. Once in the enemy lines the vanguard can help trap units, and them and the biker allow you to fallback, use the flame rounds with the shotguns, and then mob another target. Plus on the approach you can advance if needed and only waste the shooting of one model, the bike.

 

Not sure about overall effectiveness but that's how I'd run it if I did. Personally if I do a bunch of shotguns it'll probably just be mostly shotguns and a couple terminators or something deepstriking in or camping on the front lines. Just enough to be annoying.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback. That makes sense. I only habe like 3 boxes of Kill Team vet stuff but do have like 6 shotguns. Was thinking about giving all 5 vets shotties. I don't have any vanguard or termies yet.

[Moostick]

I played an army with 3 vulture gunships with twin punisher cannons.

 

Hahahahahaha, that was not fun. 120 BS3 S5 shots for less than 500 pts. How do our Vets survive that?

 

Edit: Terminator Captain with metla fist and storm bolter and bane bolts was an MVP though. He finished a hellhound, killed a psyker and charged a group of bullgryns to net me 5 VPs in one turn, which forced a draw after I ran my last remaining unit to the edge of the board and managed to end the game on a tie. Very much worth his points, but deployment is important for him.

[Finkmilkana]

I played an army with 3 vulture gunships with twin punisher cannons.

 

Hahahahahaha, that was not fun. 120 BS3 S5 shots for less than 500 pts. How do our Vets survive that

Short answer: they don’t. The best you can do is not being in 24 (so they have to move), in which case they kill “only“ about 13 vets (otherwise 18). Problem is our vets also want to be close. Or being in cover (hard with the whole army)/having Termis (they help, but also die fast) to tank some shots.

 

You best bet is to ally (or forge world) in some heavy anti air or spam lasbacks/ ven dreads and shoot them down fast while your vets hide backfield. Not really fun. Binding them in meele (they will move out, but suffer -1 to hit) can also help, but requires that the enemy messes up positioning.

 

Though while vultures are very good units, this is mainly a problem with our vets being such class cannons and DW lacking long range anti tank/anti air (without FW). It does not mean vultures are op. The same happens for example against dakkagants who can fire 90 shots (or 180 with CP) for about 240 points. Killing about 9 (18) veterans. Ppw about equal with vultures without spending CP (and far more if one squad shoots twice with CP).

Even the humble guardsman (with FRFSRF in RF range) kills about the same amount of veterans as a vulture ppw, though they need optimal conditions for it (no model died, everyone in RF range, every officer orders 2 squads etc) and are very unlikely to ever pull it off with that many squads.

 

Edit: keep in mind though that our veterans are even more destructive against marines. For the same points as 3 vultures you can get 24 veterans who kill 21 t4 3+ models (in RF range) without any buffs/mission tactics.

[Lemondish]

I played an army with 3 vulture gunships with twin punisher cannons.

 

Hahahahahaha, that was not fun. 120 BS3 S5 shots for less than 500 pts. How do our Vets survive that?

 

Edit: Terminator Captain with metla fist and storm bolter and bane bolts was an MVP though. He finished a hellhound, killed a psyker and charged a group of bullgryns to net me 5 VPs in one turn, which forced a draw after I ran my last remaining unit to the edge of the board and managed to end the game on a tie. Very much worth his points, but deployment is important for him.

That seems tailor made to murder you - what brought them down?

[Moostick]

A lucky TLLC shot and dedicating 4 units and and a psyker to cripple the other. Last one untouched.

 

Got lucky on VP with my objective draws, sacrificed the Captain, and just hunkered down for 2 turns and managed to end it with a tie. Luckily his tanks and infantry were too far back to do anything, so it was just some basilisks and the Flyers shooting both turns.

 

I think I need to bring a Xiphon next time.

[spacewatch]

I played my first codex-game (1k pts Ambush mission) against the Orcs today (DW: WM:Osseus, Captain:BBolts, Ven Dread and frag+SB, plasma and vanilla SB Vet teams + total of x4 SS and x2 Termies for protection - Orcs: WB, BigMek, MegaNobz, Lootas, x30 Boyz and Gorganaut). I lost the game because one unit missed 5" advance by 1" and could not escape from the table (note to myself: always remember to take Biker or Jump pack units or at least some assault weapons). Anyway, after four turns of absolutely devastating DW shooting Orcs had only Gorganaut and BigMek on table and Gorga had only one wound left. I lost just Termie, three SS-Vets and one ”meat shield” Vet. Teleportarium, Tempest Shells, SB Banebolts, Osseus Key and SB’s in general were just amazing. One example: my x5 SB and x1 HB enhanced Frag team shot WB and x3 Meganobz around him in just one turn (that's 15 T5 or Sv2 wounds)! In summary: what a difference compared to index&CA, I feel there are some very nice options to use in our dex; I’ll definitely try Fortis teams too but in this game my good old Vets surprised me by doing their job way better than I expected 

[Lemondish]

I played my first codex-game (1k pts Ambush mission) against the Orcs today (DW: WM:Osseus, Captain:BBolts, Ven Dread and frag+SB, plasma and vanilla SB Vet teams + total of x4 SS and x2 Termies for protection - Orcs: WB, BigMek, MegaNobz, Lootas, x30 Boyz and Gorganaut). I lost the game because one unit missed 5" advance by 1" and could not escape from the table (note to myself: always remember to take Biker or Jump pack units or at least some assault weapons). Anyway, after four turns of absolutely devastating DW shooting Orcs had only Gorganaut and BigMek on table and Gorga had only one wound left. I lost just Termie, three SS-Vets and one ”meat shield” Vet. Teleportarium, Tempest Shells, SB Banebolts, Osseus Key and SB’s in general were just amazing. One example: my x5 SB and x1 HB enhanced Frag team shot WB and x3 Meganobz around him in just one turn (that's 15 T5 or Sv2 wounds)! In summary: what a difference compared to index&CA, I feel there are some very nice options to use in our dex; I’ll definitely try Fortis teams too but in this game my good old Vets surprised me by doing their job way better than I expected 

 

Sounds great. Thanks for sharing! Did you ever find a time to use the Ork specific stratagem? 

[spacewatch]

 

I played my first codex-game (1k pts Ambush mission) against the Orcs today (DW: WM:Osseus, Captain:BBolts, Ven Dread and frag+SB, plasma and vanilla SB Vet teams + total of x4 SS and x2 Termies for protection - Orcs: WB, BigMek, MegaNobz, Lootas, x30 Boyz and Gorganaut). I lost the game because one unit missed 5" advance by 1" and could not escape from the table (note to myself: always remember to take Biker or Jump pack units or at least some assault weapons). Anyway, after four turns of absolutely devastating DW shooting Orcs had only Gorganaut and BigMek on table and Gorga had only one wound left. I lost just Termie, three SS-Vets and one ”meat shield” Vet. Teleportarium, Tempest Shells, SB Banebolts, Osseus Key and SB’s in general were just amazing. One example: my x5 SB and x1 HB enhanced Frag team shot WB and x3 Meganobz around him in just one turn (that's 15 T5 or Sv2 wounds)! In summary: what a difference compared to index&CA, I feel there are some very nice options to use in our dex; I’ll definitely try Fortis teams too but in this game my good old Vets surprised me by doing their job way better than I expected 

 

Sounds great. Thanks for sharing! Did you ever find a time to use the Ork specific stratagem? 

 

 

Well, even after all mathhammering I did beforehand I actually had no idea how good DW is against (index) Orcs so I played cautiously as always and first two turns shot 2/3 of the Boyz from afar. Then next turn teleported plasma-SB team near Gorga and dropped Captain to support. Plasma team's supercharged plasmas took 8 wounds from Gorga and SB's wiped remaining Boyz. Boyz never had a chance to charge  so I never had a change to try Orc-specific strategem. Anyway, defeat has never felt so good as now when I know what my army is capable of doing 

[ashc]

So are people still using boltguns and chainswords/powerswords in veteran squads? I have a few boltgun/powersword guys built in 7th that I'm considering chopping up.

[Vel'Cona]

So are people still using boltguns and chainswords/powerswords in veteran squads? I have a few boltgun/powersword guys built in 7th that I'm considering chopping up.

 

Not really.  The Boltgun has been roughly outclassed by the SB unless you're absolutely starved for points, especially if you're using Veterans to alpha-strike (which is probably best).  Melee wise, there are some schools of thought/arguments on building Kill Teams this way, but pound for pound shooting is better/safer/more efficient for them, and generally cheaper too.

[Lemondish]

 

 

So are people still using boltguns and chainswords/powerswords in veteran squads? I have a few boltgun/powersword guys built in 7th that I'm considering chopping up.

Not really. The Boltgun has been roughly outclassed by the SB unless you're absolutely starved for points, especially if you're using Veterans to alpha-strike (which is probably best). Melee wise, there are some schools of thought/arguments on building Kill Teams this way, but pound for pound shooting is better/safer/more efficient for them, and generally cheaper too.

Agreed, though chainswords are free, so if the Veteran has a free hand...

 

Gives you an option to toss some extra dice in combat, of course, but isn't really the best place for them.

 

Truly a pity the boltgun is so heavily outclassed given how cool the DW one is, of course.

[leth]

Basically chainswords will almost always be taken because it is a free extra attack. Hard to beat the efficiency of free.

 

For close combat you are better just having other units specialize in it, or things like aggressors who naturally do both.

[Delta.Skies]

 

 

So are people still using boltguns and chainswords/powerswords in veteran squads? I have a few boltgun/powersword guys built in 7th that I'm considering chopping up.

Not really. The Boltgun has been roughly outclassed by the SB unless you're absolutely starved for points, especially if you're using Veterans to alpha-strike (which is probably best). Melee wise, there are some schools of thought/arguments on building Kill Teams this way, but pound for pound shooting is better/safer/more efficient for them, and generally cheaper too.

Agreed, though chainswords are free, so if the Veteran has a free hand...

 

Gives you an option to toss some extra dice in combat, of course, but isn't really the best place for them.

 

Truly a pity the boltgun is so heavily outclassed given how cool the DW one is, of course.

 

I still have to rock with mine, ( point wise ) a unit of 3 bolters (Sergeant included) 2 frags. Then a unit of 4 bolters ( sergeant included ) and power axes, 1 black shield with lightning claws. Made them before the codex and couldnt fit stormbolters in the list. Worked around this and was able to fit a deep striking unit of stormbolters in there. ( Still deciding if im running 2 melta guns, or 1 melta / 1 frag ) for thats all I can afford to do at 2k points.

[veelo]

So are people still using boltguns and chainswords/powerswords in veteran squads? I have a few boltgun/powersword guys built in 7th that I'm considering chopping up.

 

All of mine that had power swords I've changed to chainswords and I just use my bolters as storm bolters

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You cannot beat free... and that is even better than for a dollar. :D