Upgrades and WYSIWYG

[Aothaine]

Hey everyone!

 

So I have a Khorne Daemons list I want to build soon. I will have three Daemon Princes, once from the CSM dex and two from Forgeworld. I want the wings upgrade on all of them. Is it still accepted that you can have something with an upgrade and just consider it to be able to jump long distances instead of actually fly?

 

I imagine some Khorne Daemon Princes being able to leap like the Hulk. Would this prevent me from using those beautiful Khorne Daemon Princes in tournaments if I didn't want to add wings to the models from Forgeworld? 

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Quixus]

I wouldn't mind as long as you do not have one DP without wings that is supposed to have wings and one that isn't. Tournaments usually are stricter though. So don't expect the FW princes to fly at tournaments.

[Lord Rust]

as another thought

it is only 1 CP to Denizens of the Warp on a foot prince vs. 2 CP for a winged prince

with reroll charge for locus, it has worked for me

[Dr_Ruminahui]

WYSIWYG is very subjective - for me, a demon prince either wings or substantial conversion (either a jump pack, or heavy pistons or the like in its legs) to be a demon prince for wings.  Anything else would require an opponent's permission - which, in friendly games, they should give you, but they are well within their rights to grumble or give you a hard time about it.   Without such conversion, you are simply using one model (a prince without wings) to stand in for another (a prince with wings), which is akin to fielding a rhino for a predator.

 

For a tourney, where players don't have a choice to play or not play a particular opponent, what is sufficiently WYSIWYG will be up the organizer, so be sure to contract them (with pictures, preferably) about any concerns.

 

That said, the opinion of a bunch of strangers on the internet really can't establish whether a particular model is sufficiently WYSIWYG (though, it may give you a range or view points, which may or may not be helpful).  Really, it is your gaming group that you need to talk to, as they are the ones whose consensus (if such exists) on the matter of WYSIWYG actually affects you.

[Aothaine]

WYSIWYG is very subjective - for me, a demon prince either wings or substantial conversion (either a jump pack, or heavy pistons or the like in its legs) to be a demon prince for wings.  Anything else would require an opponent's permission - which, in friendly games, they should give you, but they are well within their rights to grumble or give you a hard time about it.   Without such conversion, you are simply using one model (a prince without wings) to stand in for another (a prince with wings), which is akin to fielding a rhino for a predator.

 

For a tourney, where players don't have a choice to play or not play a particular opponent, what is sufficiently WYSIWYG will be up the organizer, so be sure to contract them (with pictures, preferably) about any concerns.

 

That said, the opinion of a bunch of strangers on the internet really can't establish whether a particular model is sufficiently WYSIWYG (though, it may give you a range or view points, which may or may not be helpful).  Really, it is your gaming group that you need to talk to, as they are the ones whose consensus (if such exists) on the matter of WYSIWYG actually affects you.

 

True but it gives me an idea of what to expect. I think I'll just have Siege Studios put wings on them and see if they can magnetize them or create a pin that can slide into the body maybe.. Just to make sure. So if I get that player that cries about it I can just pull the wings out. Who knows though.. Maybe they will look alright with wings. 

 

Thank you everyone!

[Claws and Effect]

Related question I don't want to start a new thread for:

 

Could I give a Deathwatch Librarian a personal teleporter from the Grey Knights Strike Squad kit to count as a jump pack?

 

Would that be a reasonable substitution?

[Plasmablasts]

Related question I don't want to start a new thread for:

 

Could I give a Deathwatch Librarian a personal teleporter from the Grey Knights Strike Squad kit to count as a jump pack?

 

Would that be a reasonable substitution?

Well, they have similar (although not identical) functions and shouldn’t cause any visual confusion, so I would have no problems with it.

[Claws and Effect]

 

Related question I don't want to start a new thread for:

 

Could I give a Deathwatch Librarian a personal teleporter from the Grey Knights Strike Squad kit to count as a jump pack?

 

Would that be a reasonable substitution?

Well, they have similar (although not identical) functions and shouldn’t cause any visual confusion, so I would have no problems with it.

Cool. My headcanon fluff has that particular Librarian specializing in beating Warp Spiders at their own game :)

[Lord_Caerolion]

As long as it looks like it could do what you claim it does, and it's not being used differently elsewhere (no having a teleporter Librarian as a jump pack, but a teleporter tactical kill-team because you like the looks better, etc).

 

In regards to the original question of the Daemon Prince, I'd be fine with a Hulk-jump Prince, but would really prefer that they convert the model to reflect that. I'm pretty easy though, and I like the imagery of it as well.

[Warhead01]

Is not putting the big wings on and saying it can fly modeling for advantage or not. I think that's the only thing that would bother me. Does that mode have to pay for wings to fly? (I have no idea.) The difference to the jump pack swap for the other model mentioned being size and profile. That's the only part of all of this that I see as important. 

 

[Kallas]

Is not putting the big wings on and saying it can fly modeling for advantage or not. I think that's the only thing that would bother me. Does that mode have to pay for wings to fly? (I have no idea.) The difference to the jump pack swap for the other model mentioned being size and profile. That's the only part of all of this that I see as important.

As a counterpoint to model the wings for advantage: is modelling a model with furled wings modelling for advantage? It's an aesthetic choice and still adequately shows a model's capacity for flight, but massively reduces the visibility of the model.

 

Similarly, a jump pack would have a much smaller visible footprint, but would still be appropriate for a flight-capable model.

 

Further, things like a Disc of Tzeentch aren't particularly obvious that they grant flight, other than established lore.

 

Essentially, there's a lot of ways that could be construed as modelling for advantage, but are still appropriate. I'd agree that there should be something visual to represent flight capability, however, though it wouldn't necessarily have to be as large as a set of unfurled wings.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Does that mode have to pay for wings to fly? (I have no idea.) 

 

Yes, the flying option is one that costs more points and increases the model's power level.

 

 

 

As a counterpoint to model the wings for advantage: is modelling a model with furled wings modelling for advantage? It's an aesthetic choice and still adequately shows a model's capacity for flight, but massively reduces the visibility of the model.

 

Similarly, a jump pack would have a much smaller visible footprint, but would still be appropriate for a flight-capable model.

 

Further, things like a Disc of Tzeentch aren't particularly obvious that they grant flight, other than established lore.

 

Essentially, there's a lot of ways that could be construed as modelling for advantage, but are still appropriate. I'd agree that there should be something visual to represent flight capability, however, though it wouldn't necessarily have to be as large as a set of unfurled wings.

 

 

Given how subjective each of those maybe, that's why I stated above that you really need to determine what does or doesn't fly (pun intended) as WYSIWYG for your own play group or tournament organizer.  What some people say on the internet is only good, at best, to canvass what the range of opinions might be.