Sisters speculation topic

[Aqui]

Please use this topic to discuss and speculate on how our new range and Codex will turn out. The other topic is to collate confirmed facts ONLY. Thanks :)

[Lord Grimskull]

Confirmed fact: Aqui just kicked us out of the plastic thread

 

Unconfirmed fact (speculation): could we be seeing a new bolter profile for the Godwyn'diaz bolters? This and more at 12.

[Progenitor]

I hope that AoF do not just get bundled into Strategems. 

I'd also like that Condemnors get a +1 to wound anything with the Chaos keyword. 

[Eddie Orlock]

I don't think Acts will straight turn into strats, but I quite confidently do think there will be strats that interact with acts. If only because we already have the martyrdom strat that already does exactly that.

[Ezr91aeL]

Unconfirmed fact (speculation): could we be seeing a new bolter profile for the Godwyn'diaz bolters? This and more at 12.

Probable. The GW style right now is to give every army its unique weapons. It's probable we will se also not the classic flamers and meltaguns but customized versions.

[Sir_Gaea]

I would love to see Celestians be able to select from Melee, Ranged, and Pistol wepons. That way I can have a melee squad.

 

That or an option to take Imperial Guard super-heavies but be able to increase the BS by 1 due to our superior training. (I like the Macharius models so much!)

[Beams]

 

 

Unconfirmed fact (speculation): could we be seeing a new bolter profile for the Godwyn'diaz bolters? This and more at 12.

Probable. The GW style right now is to give every army its unique weapons. It's probable we will se also not the classic flamers and meltaguns but customized versions.

As long as our versions aren't "the men's but worse" since even a Guardsmen can wield a botler, and there are guarden who tote around stormbotlers and heavy Bolters like it's no problem.

 

That said, I really really want to see the condemnor as a more standard weapon, something for celestians maybe? With an improved profile. Perils was awesome in 7th, and you could seriously mess with enemy psykers. Now it's just a slightly worse and more situational stormbotlers in terms of effect.

[ERJAK]

 

Unconfirmed fact (speculation): could we be seeing a new bolter profile for the Godwyn'diaz bolters? This and more at 12.

Probable. The GW style right now is to give every army its unique weapons. It's probable we will se also not the classic flamers and meltaguns but customized versions.

 

I don't think the bolter will change, the melta might be different and I'm pretty sure the flamer will 100% have a new profile for SoB. I would be pretty surprised if we didn't get 12" range+assault on all flamer weapons.

 

We'll definitely be getting strategems for AoFs, Strategems for flamer/melta, Strategems for SoF, and some vehicle specific stuff. Beyond that, no idea.

 

I think they're going to keep the AoF system largely the same. It's fun, powerful, and has clear and concise balance points you can tweek compared to the Ynnari thing.

[Noeh]

Give me melee seraphim and bike sisters and I'd be super happy. Realistically though, celestians with melee and maybe storm shields would be lovely. I don't think Sisters really needs las/grav cannons and plasma all over the place. I think adjusting the weapons sisters can use now is the answer...and probably new units to make up for the shortcomings sisters have would be nice.

But if melee seraphim come in or bike sisters...Well that's a really quick in their face option. Mostly I just think seraphim with power lances would be gorgeous.

[Eddie Orlock]

That or an option to take Imperial Guard super-heavies but be able to increase the BS by 1 due to our superior training.

I think the ship sailed on that about 15 years ago.

 

To weave the exigencies of real life into the lore, STC is really only a thing because in the really early era making a plastic tank kit mould was really, really, expensive. So, they basically made and maintained one, the beloved mk1 rhino chassis, and then produced hybrid kits for essentially standard conversions. So, because they had the limited family of tanks, every force used them. Even guard had rhinos.

 

Now, it's not quite that simple. I've no idea what precipitated the demise of the first ork battlewagon, mk1 land raider, or the old dome top predator, but I presume it was either some lack of economics, some catastrophic loss, an IP conflict, or some hybrid of those causes.

 

Now, in the era that followed, they branched out in a similar pattern for the other races. The Eldar got first the Falcon. Which was followed up the metal conversion kit for the fire-prism. And eventually a ForgeWorld resin kit for the Wave Serpent.

 

The reissued Land Raider got the Crusader Hybrid kit later.

 

The Chimera chassis got both the Hellhound and the Griffin metal refit kits.

 

The Leman Russ got the Demolisher variant and much later the Exterminator refit.

 

Now, eventually they got to a point, and the eras overlap a bit where they grew confident in marketability and the plastic sprue generation costs got low enough that there was a campaign to do away with all the metal hybrid kits. To writ, all the kits I've listed above now have all plastic versions, most of which came out with some further option or upgrade.

 

The next generation though was functionally the death knell for the real world driven nature of STC design and portability of kits between factions. This is the era we're currently in where Chaos doesn't get demonically possess rhino chassis, they get dino-bots; ad-mech didn't get the chimedons and chimerraxes people expected for years, the got Onagers and such; Marines and Guard weren't expected to share Navy support from Thunderbolts and Lightnings, they each got their own organically integrated families like Stormhawks and Valkyries. Basically, in the modern era, no kit, with the specific exemption of 'talons of the emperor' that's not a fortification, has been demonstrated to have interfaction portability. And the Talons of the Emperor are what we might categorise as an 'unintentional' army that only appeared because it helped them to some free sales piggybacking off board games they were already releasing and a commitment to support their alternate studio, FW.

 

So, with all this history in mind, I forecast it as categorically unlikely that they'll do something so simple as allowing Sororita to take Baneblades or any other nominally guard kit. I fully expect a substantially new canon of ministorum vehicles.

 

One thing I expect is a plastic penitent engine. I further expect it to be a dual build kit. Further, I expect this dual build kit will come with a fire support version.

 

I don't expect to see melee celestians because that would make too much game logic sense and align too well with their 2 attack base profile.

 

------------------------

 

I also think Mard should spend a year dragging his feat to see what the new vehicle canon will be before driving too much work into 6mm army list design and that warhounds would fill the same role the knights are kited to do, so why not just allow the 'hounds. Newer =/= always better.

[Atrus]

Im going to go go in a completely different direction on this one for a moment and say that im hoping for some unique building/terrain for sisters.

 

Local gw store managed slapped an AoS box in front of me the other day and my jaw slapped the floor. I forget the name of it but iy looked like a graveyard sort of thing. Picyure on the back had 2 of these things together and it looked amazing.

 

Something like thatd be cool or even an ecclesiarchial citadel. Something different from just ruins. And LoS blocking. Thats just a wish list though.

 

 

I can easily see one of the Orders getting the "our weapons count as assault" treatment.

As wonderful as it would be for our flamers to be 12" range, i dont see it being unique to us outside of immolation flamers.

12" flamers as a stratagem or as an Order specific shiny, that i could see happening.

[Aothaine]

I'd like to see some girls in heavy armour like the Centurion Armour. ^_^

 

We already have a dedicated melee unit with the Repentias. I don't want Celestians going into melee. I want my girls shredding at the 12" line. 

 

I really really want the Ultra Marine tactics for our girls. Fall back and shoot at a -1 with +1 ld is SO good for increasing squad sizes on the board.

 

We are suppose to be Anti-witch right? So I'd also like a stratagem that allows a unit of our choosing to target a psyker if they are not the closest unit. Maybe give us a -1 to hit if we do that or perhaps all hits will only do 1 damage to try and prevent us from dropping a 5-nun unit of seraphims with melta guns or something scary and just pinching the 450 pt character in one hit.

 

I dunno... as long as I have access to storm bolter dominion squads and storm bolter battleline squads I'll be happy. ^_^ Ohh and make the Exorcist useable.

[Mossback]

I dearly love the PEs, but don't see a fire support version coming out. When you are strapped into one and know your only redemption is death, the close assault/combat version makes sense. Even having the heavy flamers on it is a bonus, rather than a strictly melee version. I am hoping we get a makeover for the Exorcist in plastic with maybe a Harmonic fury strategem where we can get off 2d6 shots a turn. Seraphim could also do with a melee weapon version. Maybe keep the two hand flamer or inferno pistol version, but give the option of dropping one bolt pistol for a chain sword or power sword. That would greatly increase their usefulness and make taking larger squads more attractive. And finally, we desperately need more command units. Maybe Palatines, or other named characters.

[Aqui]

I did mention the lack of HQ choices to Robin Cruddace, and he agreed. I mentioned a Palatine as one option too.

[Eddie Orlock]

I dearly love the PEs, but don't see a fire support version coming out. When you are strapped into one and know your only redemption is death, the close assault/combat version makes sense. ...

Naturally, the Fire Support walker would have different fluff. Such a machine would be reserved for privileged souls who'd collected enough purity seals in ordinary action or some such who were looking to meet with the Emperor while they had a lot of plusses on their spiritual ledger. It wouldn't be called a 'Fire Support Penitent Engine', but something else entirely. The only connection would be the chassis similarity to make it fit into the dual build kit.

[Aothaine]

Seraphim could also do with a melee weapon version. Maybe keep the two hand flamer or inferno pistol version, but give the option of dropping one bolt pistol for a chain sword or power sword. That would greatly increase their usefulness and make taking larger squads more attractive. 

 

I don't think this would be more attractive at all. They are designed to act like missiles. Deep Strike in and kill something then die pretty much. Giving them a chainsword is not going to increase their survivability in this meta. Repentia are perfect for our melee damage dealers. If we wanted something a big tougher for melee I honestly think Centurions is the way to go. 

 

Totally agree with you on HQ options. I'd like to get access to Sister specific flyers and more heavy support options as well.

[Mossback]

It isn't about survivability with the Seraphim, but rather lethality. They are like the avenging angels, swooping in and meting out justice. Their melee attacks are paltry compared to other armies. If they had a solid ranged attack (Inferno Pistols) combined with a decent melee option (chain swords, power swords, etc.) they would be a winner. Seraphim practically beg to have an Act of Faith on them each turn. Move them up fast, shoot up an enemy, then tie them up in melee combat. Next turn, or if we were "lucky" enough to get a character killed (looking at you, Dialogus), then we can pull off the Martyrdom strategem, and do another round of melee attacks. Start of our next turn, do another AoF with them and either use the pistols or swords to finish off the enemy unit. They would be well worth their cost over our other units.

[Montford]

10" ranged Flamers and Heavy Flamers for Infantry. :)

[Aothaine]

It isn't about survivability with the Seraphim, but rather lethality. They are like the avenging angels, swooping in and meting out justice. Their melee attacks are paltry compared to other armies. If they had a solid ranged attack (Inferno Pistols) combined with a decent melee option (chain swords, power swords, etc.) they would be a winner. Seraphim practically beg to have an Act of Faith on them each turn. Move them up fast, shoot up an enemy, then tie them up in melee combat. Next turn, or if we were "lucky" enough to get a character killed (looking at you, Dialogus), then we can pull off the Martyrdom strategem, and do another round of melee attacks. Start of our next turn, do another AoF with them and either use the pistols or swords to finish off the enemy unit. They would be well worth their cost over our other units.

 

I understand where you're coming from but unless they have Eviscerators.... they won't perform. Str 3 is brutal in melee and nearly useless if you don't have 80 attacks. But there is no way seraphim are going to squad size 40 or even 20. So even with a full 10-nun squad you have 21 attacks with chainswords at S3 AP0 D1. It is just not effective at all. Look at Chaos Space Marines. They are S4 AP0 D1 and almost no one uses them because they are awful in melee. Give the Seraphim Eviscerators and I'm totally with you.  Or maybe a stratagem that makes their chainswords AP -2 or D2 and that would work nicely as well. But just a standard chainsword is really lack luster without specific rules like The Red Thirst (+1 to wound). Even with that... on the S3 nuns you're still wounding space marines in melee on a 4+. You really want wounding on 3+ for melee focused units. 

 

But!! They can give Seraphim something similar to what they gave T'au. That melta blade weapon(Fusion Blades). That would be perfect!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/07/tau-empire-preview-farsight-enclavesgw-homepage-post-3/

[Drider]

The only thing seraphim need is to be able to use their pistols in lieu of melee attacks during the combat phase.

 

For the average seraphim it would be something like.

Instead of a single attack hitting on 3+, s3, ap0.

Two attacks hitting on 3+. s4, ap0.

 

With the same conversion for special weapon pistols. The only issue with this is that it would further degrade the value of a p.sword on the superior. 

 

Ultimately i am suggesting that they be able to move, shoot, charge, melee shoot. if they survive and are still in combat in the enemy's turn, melee shoot again. if they survive back to you're turn, aof shoot, shoot, melee shoot.

 

it's a hell of a lot of shooting but it gives them the teeth they so desperately need. 

 

At the very least their stat line should reflect the old rules that pistols counted as melee weapons and two pistols would give you an additional attack. so really their stat line should be A2. At the very least. I prefer it my way though, being able to use the shooting profile as a melee attack.

[Atrus]

Id really love for exorcists to come in plastic and see no reason why they wouldnt. It should be a simple job really. But im not a sculpter/modeler so what do i know? :p

Exorcists are not in a happy place now. I miss the days where they were reliable. Yeah you could fluff a shot roll and only get one shot- but that one shot would still strike fear into the heart of an opponent. Today i have trouble getting excited when i get 6 shots off. What im getting at is i want them to be Dd6. Keep d6 shots but let the shots be effective.

I can understand why they went the Dd3 route for a bit of control over the damage output- i mean 36 damage potential is crazy, oh right, they changed Leman Russes to have that exact potential.

Keep d6 shots, make them Dd6. Same potential but different from LRs and other like it. Id happily pay their original index price if they were Dd6.

Its better than using them as LoS blocking terrain in games. (Seriously, ive starting using them as terrain features in games now)

 

Also, that shooting in mellee idea for seraphim.....cannot say how much i freaking love that idea and dont understand why its not already a thing for gunslinging models.

[Kinstryfe]

My best guesses, based more or less on seeing recent releases and going on the assumption (rightly so I believe) that the entire army will be in plastic with new sculpts. I think most kits will pull double duty or more, and I'm going off the assumption that no current units would be cut.

 

Basic Sisters Infantry Kit, probably pulling effective double duty as Dominions and Retributors, with parts to make a Sister Superior or Canoness.

 

Elite Sisters Infantry Kit, Celestians most likely. Will also contain parts for the Characters (hospitaler, imagifier, cannoness). Likely 5 models with much more ornate armour and weapons. I'd also wager Celestians will gain more weapon options.

 

Repentia kit, probably not double duty, except I could see the option for a repentia style character, and other weapon options than just eviscerators.

 

Seraphim Kit, very likely dual kits giving options for 2 types of squads. I could see them going with a melee variant, or with a more dakka variant with souped up pistols like those Primaris jump pack dealies.

 

Penitent Engine Kit, likely either with multiple loadouts or the unit will be weakened a bit and designed to run in squadrons.

 

New Vehicle Kit, I can see them making something new like they made the Taurox. New shiny vehicle means more must have purchases. Keep the RH1N0s and variants, possibly make a new sprue for a dual kit, but push the new chassis hard.

 

Character clam pack, likely a named Cannoness. Possibly also a priest if they remain.

 

What I'd like to see - comeback of bound psykers as psychic defense.

 

I think that's about the minimum they'd need to make for a complete usable range plus profits. Anything more will likely be gravy :)

[Drider]

Plastic exorcist kit would be super easy to knock up. Even i could fudge together a 3d model for the organ. 

 

The problem with the exorcist isn't so much it's d3d, it's it's heavy d6. you can't move the thing or you're -1 to hit. you've only got you're main weapon, no sponsons and you've got random d6 shots. All the while paying for t8 and ap-4. It really does need a redesign. in it's current form you could throw in the black keys for free and i still wouldn't pay the points for that glorified pipe organ. 

 

Double shoot with it's current profile would be enough to make it relevant, but i think they could do so much more with it. Give it a selection of shooting profiles so that it's basically shooting melta tipped exorcist missiles, or some sort of napalm frag missile. Something like...

Heavy D6 s8 ap-4 DD3 or DD6

Heavy D6 s5 AP-1 D1 Any hits with this weapon generate an additional d3 or d6 automatic hits.

Then Decide if you're going to give it double shoot. if you do give it double shoot then go for the d3 values for damage and additional hits, if it stays single shoot then give it the d6 values. 

[Lord Grimskull]

I wouldn't mind a return to the 1d6 hand-flamers (just for us) not really a model thing though.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the orders got a copy-paste of the catachan "may reroll number of hits" treatment.

 

How about a support unit? "Angelis Quior" 5 model squad, 5+ feel no pain and +1 AoF roll for units within 6" (+1" for each model in this unit)

[Montford]

Bring back the sarissa, allow the Celestians to fix them as a bayonet, and give them a +1 STR and perhaps some other bonus in the Fight phase.