Sisters speculation topic

[Servant of Dante]

The point of frateris militia would be the same as DCA, Crusaders, Arcos and PEs

 

They’re non-Sisters Ministorum unit’s. Militia are not formal military, they’re civilians rallied by priests for Holy Wars so they are generally allowed by the Ordo Hereticus, tho if they stick around after a campaign too long I imagine they’d break them up :P

[Eddie Orlock]

No fratis militia, please.

I oppose this. I came into the fold from the 'freak show' army route in the Witch Hunters book. I played it for several years with narry a sister in sight and would like to have it back.

 

Besides, the militia are a decent approximations of peasant levies in a brettonian force which was a bit of the WHFB force analogue.

 

See, the only thing that goes from world to world in the militia is the box of guns and ammo and the preacher that rounds up the local yokels to use 'em. No militia goes anywhere, just the equipment to make it possible. "I'm just going to leave this box of guns out here and look the other way. Oh, by the way, you know that the Emperor would probably appreciate it if you helped those brave Sisters fend off them ork raiders of your own volition. Just saying. So, it doesn't actually countermand the decree, my friend the arbite here has looked this all over so we can all be sure we're on side." -Que rather grumpy looking arbite making an appearance-.

[Atrus]

Not really. Just expecting some minor point changes and maybe clarification on rule wordings and such.

I dont expect much from the beta rules outside maybe a couple stratagems and MAYBE a slightly reworked AoF system or adjusted faith abilities.

 

Not expecting new dataslates. Be nice if they did but not holding my breath.

Im actually half expecting geedubs solution to the Celestian problem just simply to be to make BSS minimum squad size 10 again.

 

Edit: I too am opposed to Frateris Militia but only in name. I can see them as a ministorum troop choice. My main hang up is in the name. Its too close to the frateris from age of apostasy which spawned the whole decree passive. If geedubs took this route id only accept it if it went by another less organised sounding name like Civilian Rabble or something obvious like that.

But its Geedubs IP. They do what they want and we can all just pick and choose and heaadcannon the rest.

[dracpanzer]

Im actually half expecting geedubs solution to the Celestian problem just simply to be to make BSS minimum squad size 10 again.

Not saying they wouldn't, but that would suck. Ro3 and a ten girl minimum?

 

Sure, why not. Cawdor are getting rules soon and AoS2 is coming...

[Atrus]

*shrug* Just sayin. Solves the problem of "whats the point of Celestians?" Celestians become the token MSU immolator pairing and BSS become the objective camping, CP generators.

 

Didnt say i liked it. But seeing as thats what it used to be, i could see it happening again.

I like my 5 girl BSS squads. But because of that, Celestians lose their place without a major rework to their entry.

[taikishi]

Then I'd rather see their entry reworked so they bring something different to the table, personally. Maybe more options like Veterans and Sternguard get without being clones?

[Lord Grimskull]

Another idea for celestians would be to provide compelling unique weapon options that, while not auto-include, allows them to liven up the choice making.

 

Maybe something like:

-master crafted powersword and stormshield

 

-Twin meltagun

 

-Man portable hurricane bolter

 

-shoulder mounted Exorcist missile launcher

 

Speculate!

[Atrus]

Its difficult to speculate when all we have right now is a vague announcement and a model render.

Everything else is wish listing.

 

Think the only speculation i could bring to the table right now is: i wonder if gw will make that model Sister Mirya and make her a Celestian Character?

 

Edit: does anyone remember when that model is being released? Really want it.

[Mossback]

I don't think they announced a time frame for the release, but I did hear it would be prior to the full release and possibly before the CA in November.

[Montford]

After what will be 16 years I really think the Sisters of Battle should at least get a few new Units.

[Purifying Tempest]

I think Celestians need to go back towards what they were in White Dwarf, I believe it was:

 

They can gear like Retributors or Dominions, they can take pretty much their choice of weapons.  They also get their choice of melee weapons.  Finally, give them some of those more elite choices like the militant banner.  Losing the Hospitalier and Dialogus hurts that niche for them, but giving them the options and flexibility is where I loved the old Command Squads and Celestians.

 

Power Mauls (any power weapons, really) or Chainswords options give them a solid spot in the army, too.  2 base attacks, add in a Priest around for a 3rd.  God forbid one can bring a banner for a 4th power weapon attack, or a 5th chainsword strike.  Let them keep bodyguards, as that is more of a gimmick than a reliable mechanic, but I think it also adds flavor and can be useful when they are escorting a Canoness and/or Priest to buff the squad and a large battle sister squad up the field.  Give them a Rosarius or something similar for a 4+ invulnerable, charge 20ish points a model.  They become a minor tarpit that could actually do something with enough time in melee, but probably won't be taking on dedicated close combat units (which I think is important).  They provide a bit of force multiplication through the banner and bodyguard rules.  These changes also take the unit back to something more familiar in the past.  Most importantly, though, it adds something that the army is really missing (though not so much that it deforms the core of the army, which is close-quarters ranged combat).

 

I know we have Repentia, as well, but I think that's where the Rosarius really comes into play.  Repentia are such a glass cannon, alpha strike style unit.  With so much AP running around, the only combat for it has been invulnerable saves, and those saves are becoming more popular.  Giving Celestians the ability to maintain their save vs those types of weapons (hi Plasma) really separates them from a lot of the other units we presently have.

 

Also...

 

Shield of Faith.

 

Feels like it is the worst rule ever, right now.  Our vehicles benefit the most from it, which is silly... yay for faithful vehicles!  In order for the infantry to have any sort of benefit from Shield of Faith means that they have to be targeted with something on the level of Melta or some of the more gruesome Plasma weaponry out there.  At that point, you're winning because they are aiming/exposing those weapons to a portion of your army this is so far below that value of said weapon.  That's not even accounting for the awful nature of the Deny the Witch portion of it.  Not saying it needs to be totally reworked on its own right (Space Marine players would probably laugh it off saying "And They Shall Know No Fear" or Chaos players citing "Death to the False Emperor" versus Necrons), but perhaps make some things work off of it to make it less of a "hey, it protects our tanks and planes, too!" feel.

[Lord Grimskull]

I like a lot of your ideas tempest, my only qualm is 20pts a model for a tarpit is an expensive tarpit.

[dracpanzer]

I would be happy if they made it like a 6+ FnP. I would love to get the Canoness Command Squad (7ed IA) rules for Celestians. Rosarius is tempting, but maybe better to give them prosideums for 5 pts?

[Beams]

I'm really expecting shield of faith to interact with strategems.

 

The d6 is worthless to deny and the 6++ is rarely used.

 

I'm thinking there will be a +1 to shield of faith for a unit strategem, and a +2 or roll 2d6 for shield of faith denies strategem.

[Purifying Tempest]

I use describing it as a tarpit very loosely.  5 models with a 4++ probably still won't last very long, especially vs dedicated close combat units.  But they would also be able to hold off a surprising number of threats decently well, albeit briefly, and better than anything else we can really field.  It would also have a very high upside (capable of making a striking number of saves in one go).

 

I would love to see Shield of Faith incorporated into Stratagems and/or Order Traits.  Pay a CP to get 3 or 4+ Shield of Faith rolls for a unit until end of phase after being targeted.  Make those Hellblasters regret going after your exposed Dominions... just a tiny bit... they're probably still dead regardless.  I also wouldn't mind seeing it become 6+++, as that rule is definitely spread across a few armies, and could even narratively explained as: after your training and armor have failed, the Emperor still protects his most faithful.  Something like that.  I don't see it being a resilience thing, more of a divine intervention/protection.

 

I like the Deny as it is, currently.  Even though it frequently costs 2 CP to use, because the dice gods are not with me... but it is incredibly useful when used with good timing.  Especially for an army that eschews psykers from a lore point of view.  We don't even Deny the Witch with mechanics... too close to playing that mind phase game... which we don't do... ever.  The Deny portion of the Shield of Faith, though, should totally be dropped though.  It is awful.  It provides nothing other than a possible joke we've all got a laugh out of... once in an edition.  Could be a good balancing for a 6+++ or whatever, though 6+++ army wide that is not an Order Trait may make even Death Guard and Ulthwé blush with envy.

 

I still really hope they break the Ministorum into 2 codices: Sororitas and Inquisition.  Give all of the units Imperium and Adeptus Ministorum so players can relive Witch Hunter style armies, but really give both of the books a bit of a focused touch so we don't lose a lot of flavor in the name of lumping all these forces together in one codex in some sort of sane/balanced way.  I absolutely want the armies to interact and build on each other, but would like to see them both stand on their own merits, not require each other to take advantage of X and Y abilities because the codex trimmed out options due to... space, time, focus, whatever.

[Plasmablasts]

I was worried that many of the Ministorum models would end up as Index-only legacy units, but the inclusion of Crusaders in Codex: Astra Militarum and the appearance of the Death Cult Assassin (or something extremely similar) in the Rogue Trader skirmish game teaser rather hints that they might have a future - which I’d be happy about.

[Lord Grimskull]

I kinda want to see a mechanic that ignores FNP rolls. Something sorta thematic about deathguard not getting disgustingly resilient rolls vs our sanctified firepower

[General Strike]

I selfishly want them to gain access to the Valkyrie with a 3+ BS, mainly cause I love the model.

[Triszin]

so in the space wolf topic we were discussing, Female "faux primaris marines" or Gene-enhanced sisters.

 

my questions, for the speculation thread.

 

if the sisters and Ecclesiarchy viewed the primaris marines by Robby as a potential threat.

 

1. Heretic primaris astares

2. Primaris imperial truth hardliners

 

Would they see the need to create Gene-enhanced Sisters that specialized in Anti mechanized infantry and anti armor, on the off chance they have to deal with a "rogue" primaris force.

 

and if they did feel the need to make these gene-enhanced sisters, then what would their armor and equipment be?
Would they have a new armor set, gravis merged with jump jets, would they still use bolters, or end up using Volkite weaponry to deal with the threat more easily.

 

---

and lastly, If there were to be a Sister of battle from fenris, how would that happen, and would they be any different from the standard sisters?

[Servant of Dante]

@Genetic modification: Absolutely not. There are far more dangerous threats in the galaxy than rogue Primaris marines, and the Sisters never genetically modified themselves for that.

 

Additionally, from a religious standpoint, the human form is pure and perfect, and any modification to is is blasphemy. That's exactly why marines are viewed with suspicion, they're basically sanctioned mutants. Arguably a bit more sanctioned since the Emperor designed them. The faith of a single man can move mountains, what good is an extra lung and some other doodads compared to that?  (note that bionic replacement of lost body parts is apparently allowable)

 

Thematically, the a core point of Sisters is they're normal humans. Marines are the gene-hanced ones.

 

@Fenrisian Sister: They would have been raised from infancy at a nearby Schola Progenia, so they'd still be pretty standard in that way, although perhaps with a bit of that Death Worlder flavor to their faith Then, all Sisters are trained during their Novitiate on Terra or Ophelia VII, so they would be rather normalized by that. I imagine there could be one or two little quirks they could maintain but by and large the Sisters are homogeneous.

 

That being said, it's your hobby and I know not everyone is as rigid about where exactly Sisters are trained and how homogeneous they are or aren't as I am. Same as any part of the fluff it's subject to whatever you want your headcanon to be.

[Triszin]

I did not know that the sisters were against gene-enhancing.

 

are there no sisters thatdo rejuv treatments? or do they look the other way.

 

cause in my minf if they do rejuv treatments, then actual gene-enhancing is nearly the same.

 

 

maybe a heavyier armor, some mid point between terminator and their standard armor, with volkite guns!

[dracpanzer]

I don't remember ever feeling threatened by Terminators on the table, why is everyone obsessed with T3 Sisters termies?

[Aqui]

=][= I feel that I should point out, that this topic is for speculation on possible models and rules only. Please start a what if topic for concepts like Genehanced Sisters (about as likely as Khârn controlling his temper and becoming a pacifist tbh) =][=

[dracpanzer]

Purely wishlisting here. I would most like to see the Sisters finally get a second troop choice and I keep coming back to the image of a Sisters unit that rocks shields and burning mauls. Going just a bit in to SM wargear gets expensive fast. So change it up a bit. The shield doesn't give a 3++ but rather a +1 to either their armor or invuln save (2+5++) Maul just gives them +1S but has the added rules of a hand flamer and counts as a pistol. So they would get Wall of Death and get to swing (shoot) them in the shooting phase while engaged in close combat. Perhaps going for say 13-14 points?

 

Tarpit to some degree, better against horde type units, and not so terribly expensive. Barring that, shield and maul could be wargear added to the list that could be put on Celestians kind of like the CCS options.

[Atrus]

Sisters are glass cannons to me, so i find myself resistant to the idea of them getting any kind of tough unit. But thats just me.

 

Nothing to add from me till we get another update/tease from gw.