My gripes with Flight of the Eisenstein

[bluntblade]

This is less to do with the main narrative, which is at least serviceable and has some excellent moments, and more to do with shortcomings in the verisimilitude, which means the more I've dwelt on the book, the less convincing I find it.

 

Scale and Seniority

We can all point to instances in a sizeable chunk of Black Library output where the scale gets a bit janky. However, FotE is particularly egregious as it accidentally shrinks a Space Marine Legion into a seeming few hundred warriors.

 

Consider the opening of Horus Rising, where the Luna Wolves spearhead alone is a wave of thousands of Astartes. As it moves on, we see senior captains commanding others: we don't quite get the scale you might expect from a Legion, but we get a sense of its power.

 

Flight of the Eisenstein gives us four of the Death Guard's senior commanders. Trouble is, it tells us they're captains and then never shows us their subordinate captains (indeed, the first battle appears to show only command companies fighting, which seems quite reckless). This feeds through to Garro's behaviour; when he protests being shut out of Isstvan III, he doesn't worry about the Seventh Grand Company, and doesn't do so even when the virus bombs start falling. This could have been used to enhance his feelings of helplessness and dislocation. Sadly, it isn't, and that diminishes both the drama of the Isstvan Atrocity and the scope of the Imperium itself.

 

Rank and Reputation

This feeds somewhat into Garro's treatment by the Imperial Fists. Given that his actual rank is on par with a Lord Commander or Chapter Master - one of only seven in his Legion - it strains credibility that not one of the VII Legion brass recognises him by reputation. I'm not saying he belongs in the league of Abaddon, Raldoran and Khârn as a name known to everyone in the Eighteen Legions, but he ought to be known a little better than not at all. A being as intelligent as Dorn also ought to be wondering why he's come so far away from the thousands of warriors he is meant to lead.

 

Culture and Consequence

Garro's relationship with Mortarion comes off as undercooked. He seems to be something of a stranger to his Primarch, which seems strange given his seniority, and the fact that his Grand Company is stationed aboard the Endurance. For this to make sense, Garro ought to command his own portion of the Legion fleet and be returning from a prolonged campaign elsewhere.

 

This sense of an underdone dynamic applies to the wider Legion. Admittedly this may be hindsight talking, with the much deeper exploration of the Legion's culture that the Forge World books and Chris Wraight's sterling work, but the fact remains that next to these portrayals, Swallow's is left looking rather shallow. The conflict between Terran and Barbaran Astartes is reduced to crude racism rather than deeply ingrained cultural differences such as those we get in the White Scars and, to a lesser extent, in the Iron Hands.

 

It might be argued that we are shown the inverse of the Barbaran Legion's emphasis on absolute obedience to one's superior. Garro's men question and argue. But then the obedience which is the norm isn't flagged up, and nor is the personality cult which some of the Death Guard seem to build around their Primarch.

 

Chem-weapons, the Legion's dreaded stock in trade, are never mentioned, which means that the invocation of Typhon's "brutal tactics" means little in comparison to Ullis Temeter pulling apart a soldier who's on fire. The Jorgalli ship battle and the fighting aboard the Eisenstein offers us a chance to see how the "pure" Death Guard fight compared to those who still retain some traits of the Dusk Raiders, but it isn't used. Indeed, Mortarion's whole reason to try and bring Garro on board ends up looking flimsy as hell, given that we never see any Terrans beside Temeter in a position of seniority, and therefore we don't see how much respect Garro commands.

 

To Finish

Flight of the Eisenstein is hardly the most egregious thing Black Library have put out, but there's a huge amount of potential that isn't capitalised on.

[Indefragable]

Valid points, all, but I would chalk it up to the early part of the HH series where everyone--authors, BL itself--were figuring these things out. It's not so jarring to me in the way that the first White Walkers seen in GoT look quite different from later iterations.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It is still a good novel IMO and that something good happened for the Imperium which is very rare in HH novels makes it even better .

[bluntblade]

Valid points, all, but I would chalk it up to the early part of the HH series where everyone--authors, BL itself--were figuring these things out. It's not so jarring to me in the way that the first White Walkers seen in GoT look quite different from later iterations.

I agree with that, but it's more jarring to me in a lot of ways than some of its contemporaries - though indeed the core trilogy and A Thousand Sons do have similar issues.

[Manchu warlord]

I quote:

It is still a good novel IMO and that something good happened for the Imperium which is very rare in HH novels makes it even better .

It was also the first novel that introduced the Sisters of Silence, and I really liked those girls... They never complain.

[Fedor]

I doubt it was ever really meant as a focused look into the Death Guard. At that early point in the series that was likely seen as something for the years ahead, though considering how little we have ended up getting of them it can definitely be looked back on as a bit of a missed opportunity/rushed effort in terms of legion character building.

 

The main early series failing was imo having Horus fall be mostly done in a few chapters worth of dream sequence(with Fulgrim's fall/ferrus character squeezed into one book being runner up). Abnett set the stage of the Great Crusade optimism very well in HR, but had only really started to show how being Warmaster was going to really test Horus towards the end of the book. To go from that to full chaos Horus by halfway through the next book was too much, too fast. I hope if the HH remains a setting for BL after the main run ends, we eventually get someone going back and doing a Horus focused character piece set around that early timeframe of Interex campaign to Davin. Something like that could really compliment the opening trilogy.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I quote:

It is still a good novel IMO and that something good happened for the Imperium which is very rare in HH novels makes it even better .

It was also the first novel that introduced the Sisters of Silence, and I really liked those girls... They never complain.

I love Sisters of Silence. They are getting the silent treatment in 40k but wow they are just as hard core as Custodes. Krole FTW.

[mc warhammer]

well, the narrative was my issue with it. i kinda get that it was meant to play out a bit like an action movie, but after the superior knf, that doesn't seem like a decent excuse to me. FoE almost caused me to drop Bl completely

[bluntblade]

well, the narrative was my issue with it. i kinda get that it was meant to play out a bit like an action movie, but after the superior knf, that doesn't seem like a decent excuse to me. FoE almost caused me to drop Bl completely

Care to elaborate on that?

[mc warhammer]

 

well, the narrative was my issue with it. i kinda get that it was meant to play out a bit like an action movie, but after the superior knf, that doesn't seem like a decent excuse to me. FoE almost caused me to drop Bl completely

Care to elaborate on that?

 

it was a while ago, haven't read it since its release buuut. all IMO of course

 

* paper thin characters. nobody hooked me. garro was stock standard, not compelling. villains were marginally worse than the heroes

* speaking of obvious, all the plot points and character arcs were also that and telegraphed from a mile away

* the integration of the IA article garro rumours was also...obvious. i remembering groaning and rolling my eyes at how badly shoe-horned it was

 

the whole thing lacked imagination

 

so, i guess my gripe is...just that it was very ...obvious? surfacey. superficial. run of the mill tie-in, franchise fiction. i'd come to horus rising expecting that, but abnett raised my expectations, which ruined me for the follow up books.

 

that being said, i loved the scene where garro meets dorn. that was excellent. dorn was layered in a way nobody else in the story seemed to be

[bluntblade]

Yeah, as with Galaxy in Flames there are some powerful scenes mired in an uninspired narrative

[shandwen]

About half of the early HH books feel into this same category for me: one of no real idea of scale or scope and a lack of depth in characters. This one, and Thousand Sons, are both have glaringly obvious issues, but they were early books where i just dont think anyone knew what they were foing.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Yeah, there was definitely a transitional period in which they moved from the old fluff (legions being only 20,000 or so strong), into the new fluff (Ultramarines having 250,000 or so). The Primarch heights tended to massively jump around as well, from having Horus kneeling and having Marines still only coming up to around waist/chest height, to only a bit larger than a Marine.

[mc warhammer]

and yet, there’s a few things the early books still did better

[Tarvek Val]

When I read FotE for the first time, I will admit that it came off as underwhelming. At the time, I thought that Horus Rising was one of the strongest books I had read in the Black Library canon (this being when I was still relatively new to 40k / HH), and I still hold that opinion today. The setting for the entire series was introduced so well and the characters were so well-established and, well, ​likable that I found Garro and the Death Guard to be a rather dull lot in comparison. Whilst I found myself rooting for characters such as Gravel Loken or the first remembrancers, I didn't find myself drawn into the character of Garro as much. As others have already pointed out, the characters of FotE weren't necessarily totally flushed out, and the unique aspects of the Death Guard were not really explored.

 

However.

I have since read many more BL books (most of the HH series and countless 40k and Warhammer: Old World books), and I have re-read FotE several times. I have found that I appreciate the book more with each reading. After getting to know Garro more through the progression of the Heresy, I find myself attributing what I now know about him into his character in FotE. His loyalty, determination, and sheer willpower really do make him an interesting character; these details are just not totally evident in FotE as they are in other works that Garro is portrayed in. I feel that the book does an admirable job of covering the opening stages of the Heresy from a loyalist perspective not of the Iron Hands, Salamanders, or Raven Guard, which is almost enough to make the book a worth-while read by itself.

 

Sure, some opportunities may not have been fully exploited, but who can blame the authors for not knowing precisely how this 50-book series would grow and develop over the future?

[bluntblade]

To be honest I think that more could have been done when the book is compared to its early contemporaries. Horus Rising, Prospero Burns and A Thousand Sons so far more to establish a Legion's culture, and when a divide runs through the Legion and plays a key role, it's an egregious thing to have lacking.

[Fedor]

It also had one of the worst traitor characters in the early series....Grulgor!. Toss-up between him and Eidolon for who was depicted as the most one-dimensional obviously turning traitor, no redeeming qualities character from the very start.

[bluntblade]

Indeed. At least Abaddon has Conquest and Abnett's portrayals.

[Xisor]

Whilst these reservations hold somewhat true, I also would note that *at the time* it was second-hand of all the HH novels.

 

"Fulgrim" and "Legion" would provide competition, but for many "Galaxy in Flames" and "False Gods" just didn't have the completeness to compete.

 

If the worst aspect of TFotE is Grulgor, that's fine. Sort-of. The novel *works* and is a pacy thriller of a read, even if it's obvious. It's shockingly simple, but somehow many people still absolutely love it. (I know I do, and I have a long history of moaning about it on the internet!)

 

In that respect, I think the flimsiness of the details, the validity of the criticisms also go to show Jim Swallow's skill at spinning a ripping yarn.

 

It's hugely different from "Horus Rising" and "Fulgrim" (and the later novels), but it does other things very well.

 

Portraying an all-singing, all-dancing, well-realised vista of the Great Crusade us, perhaps, just not one of them...

[Orwell84]

Agree with much of the above, though with regard to the narrowness of the setting one reason might be, as the author notes in the afterword to the book, the fact that in contrast to the vast scale of the opening trilogy FoTE was deliberately intended to be narrower in focus. It's the story of one man, Nathaniel Garro.

 

That also explains why there's less about the DG and Mortarion than some might like, though Swallow does allude to Morty feeling undervalued by the Emperor as opposed to Horus.

 

I've only got the ebook, but I've heard the hardcover limited editions of older novels retconned the legion sizes and other such discrepancies. If so, I'm wondering why such changes weren't applied to the ebooks.

[Brother Lunkhead]

After reading most of the posts here I had to go back and reread FoE to see if I remembered it wrong. It was still the same good read I remembered. FoE is the end cap to part one of the Horus Heresy. For me it was how this part should end, with a smaller and more personal story. This was quite welcoming after all of the epic bolter mayhem of the first three volumes (it was great bolter mayhem).

 

First off, this book is not about the Death Guard. It's about Nathanial Garro and his race to deliver the warning of Horus' betrayal and the civil war that is coming. We do get some key details on the DG however. We find out about it's origins (the Dusk Raiders). We get a glimpse at the machinations of Mortarion (not a detailed look, but you get the idea that Mortarion is not satisfied with his lot in the grand scheme of things). Through the few DG characters we meet (Typhon, Grulgor, etc) we see a legion rife with personal ambition and bereft of any respect for the humanity it is supposed to protect.

 

In the middle of all this we have Nathanial Garro, one of the last terran born DG and a true believer in the Emperor's dream. Clearly favored by Mortarion (he is given Mortarion's Cup to drink from; a high honor), he is offered a place in the new order. We see his struggles in balancing his loyalties to legion and empire. We see the brave choice he makes alone. With enemies all around, no allies of import, and the certainty of death he chooses honor over treachery. He's not a stock character, he has backstory, he has struggles, and he has dimension.

 

Would I have liked to see the DG and it's characters filled out more? Youbetcha I would, but it was not going to be done here, and I didn't expect it to be. I got exactly what I expected to get and was satisfied.

 

FoE is not Horus Rising. It is not the beginning of the HH story, but the end of the beginning. We don't have the luxury of time to get elaborate  background on the Death Guard legion, it's Primarch, or it's main characters. We are already in the middle of this war. What details you get are on the run, so you better catch them when you can. I've said before, James Swallow either works for me or he doesn't. I have no middle ground with him. In Flight of the Eisenstein, he works for me 

[bluntblade]

Maybe that's the case, but I think some ground should have been laid for the Death Guard and more thought given to Garro's position.

[Brother Lunkhead]

Maybe that's the case, but I think some ground should have been laid for the Death Guard and more thought given to Garro's position.

 

That would have been nice to see and at the least would have been welcome at some point early in the HH story. But based on the economy of story in this book I think it would have thrown the pace off. FoE gives enough information to allow the reader to piece together the bigger picture.

 

I definitely agree that Mortarion and the Death Guard should have been fleshed out better at some point early in the HH series (just like Sanguinius and the Blood Angels should have been). With all of the novels, short stories, and audio dramas we've seen so far I think it glaringly shows the lack of foresight in developing this series by BL. On the whole I'm very glad for the HH series, but it is a very flawed project.

[Xisor]

Well put, Lunkhead. I think the story can (and indeed: *should*) have stayed exactly as you described: a personal sidelong view of everything we'd just seen happen in the proceeding books, but providing the different vantage point we needed to carry right onto the next bit.

 

But the elements that, I think, people are vexed about are more that there aren't sufficient throwaway lines to evoke the wider picture. Not of the wider war, or the wider Imperium - that's all done actually fine enough.

 

To put it another way: a long held gripe of mine about all BL fiction (and a setup McNeill and Kyme prominently use well, if unsatisfactorially for my desires) is that of "Captain + pal"; Ventris & Pasanius do this, as do Da'kir and Ba'ken (and their antagonists: Tsu'gan & Iagon).

 

It makes for a fairly sensible vehicle for telling the stories (and in Marine terms:it works fine enough, they're all gung ho superheroes, no need for redshift Jimmy N. to accompany Kirk, Spock and McCoy in each story [bad news if you're the third wheel to Gotrek & Felix, sadly!])

 

But you get the point:it works fine for the vehicle. They're senior enough to be movers and shakers, but not so pivotal as to bog down the story with tedious office jobs.

 

The problem is, these are Space Marine Officers, in the main. If Garro is a Captain of a Grand Company, much of his job (or at least a lot of the story) will start/end/punctuate with him doing/avoiding His Day Job: overseeing his company.

 

The Uriel stories somewhat circumvent this by having Learchus actually be supremely competent (in a way that Pasanius & Uriel are *magnificently* useless!) at actually running their company.

 

Now, McNeill somewhat jokingly sets all that aside by having it be Part of The Point that Space Marine leaders aren't actually especially necessary - they're all gung ho mavericks.

 

And Flight of the Eisenstein is a great enough novel that I think (almost, this thread notwithstanding!) everyone already forgives Jim for skimming over these sorts of details.

 

And that's where I think there's not need for massive changes, but throwaway lines and repeated motifs, even if only a paragraph or two extra on any given chapter of the novel.

 

A bit of "reviewing records relayed from the Xth Grand Company in an adjoining sector", a bit of "Vargas Gelt, reassigned from the other Company, but fitting in well enough...".

 

Basically that FotE falls slightly too strongly on skimming. (Few HH novels go completely the other way. In fact, I think only 'Nemesis', 'Know No Fear', and 'Tallarn' go anywhere near the other end of the spectrum, and I wouldn't say they suffer for it. Much in the same way I don't think most people would say Eisenstein suffers.)

 

Those throwaways are all that's needed:

- more of a sense of scale

- more of a sense of Garro's day job (think Indiana Jones university scenes, inverted: Garro being pulled into 'man of the people' obligations to his thousands, but eschewing them for more time reflecting of the philosophy of Senior Leadership)

- more of a sense of 'unique flavour' about the Death Guard culture as distinct from the Luna Wolves/Emperor's Children.

- more insight into Mortarion's, even if only a little

- a few more dimensions to Grulgor.

 

None of that needs overwhelming structural changes, nor does it undermine what Jim did. It's just be adding a little more flavour, a little sense of depth to what's decorating the stage on which his story plays out.

[bluntblade]

Considering how small the DG part in Path of Heaven is, they get a lot of characterisation. Heck, Henricos in Scars does plenty of work for the Iron Hands' vibe, more than their role in Fulgrim I'd say.