Musings of an 8th Ed. Watch Master (Warning: Long/Rambling)

[Masked Thespian]

FYI: tl;dr at bottom.

 

Introduction

 

Hey everyone.

 

I bought pretty heavily into the Deathwatch when they were released in 7th Edition, though didn't really do much with them in terms of gluing and painting them.  Since 8th Edition released I've managed to glue some of them up and play a few games using the Index army list.  I've not added any Primaris models to my army so far as I wanted to wait until the Codex to see what would be made available.  Now that the Codex has been released, I've been able to take a look into what's now available in terms of Primaris Marines, as well as take a look at updates to our older options.

 

The way I built my army initially was to create an entire Watch Company from a single Watch Fortress.  As per my Index Astartes: Fort Excalibris article, I embraced the Watch Fortress of Fort Excalibris, in particular Watch Company Tertius.  Through my...  possibly overzealous spending, I have more than enough regular Marines to make up a single Watch Company of 4 Kill Teams of 10 models.  I'm the kind of person who would like to collect a full Company of Space Marines (or, possibly, Chapter) with no redundant or extra models.  As such I've used magnets to give myself as many options as possible within these 40 models, though simply due to the number of things the Deathwatch can take I've included more than the 40 models that I ought to have for a single Watch Company, but it's not by too many and I reckon I can live with that.  Ideally, once they're all painted up, I'll have specific "Kill Teams" (albeit with the odd "swapped out" model) which means that I can go the full distance in mark them with numerical Kill Team numbers.

 

Going Forward With Primaris Marines

 

However, with the advent of having Deathwatch Primaris Marines, I'm at a little bit of a crossroads.  Amongst other things, I'm more of a roleplayer than a power gamer, and I'd rather make choices based on the background of an army than by what gives me the best win percentage.  As such, I'm unsure which of the following possible directions I ought to take the army in:

• Incorporate the Primaris Marines into Watch Company Tertius, making it a mixed regular-Marines/Primaris-Marines Watch Company.

1. Pro: I can take almost anything and everything I want.
2. Pro: All the models will have a matching Watch Company stripe.
3. Con: I won't be able to take a Primaris Watch Captain, as I already have a non-Primaris Watch Captain with extensive background written for him that I'm unwilling to give up.
4. Con: None of the squads will have numerical Kill Team numbers as they may clash with each other (e.g. regular Kill Team 1 clashing with Primaris Kill Team 1).
5. Con: I'll theoretically be limited to 40 Kill Team models (excluding extras like a Watch Captain, Librarians, Apothecaries, etc.).  Probably not a big downside, unless I start to play in bigger games (currently I usually play 1500 points).
6. Con: I'll be "wasting models" (I.e. having more than 40 models for a nominally 40-man Watch Company).

• Keep Watch Company Tertius as a purely regular Marine Watch Company, but create a second Watch Company (probably Secundus as the horizontal stripe will likely be easier to paint than a diagonal one) and make it a purely Primaris Watch Company.

1. Pro: All the models will have appropriately painted Watch Company stripes and numerical Kill Team numbers.
2. Pro: I can take a Primaris Watch Captain, which I would honestly like to have to support my long-range fire base.
3. Con: If I want to use a mixed regular-Marine and Primaris army then I'll need to "combine" the two Watch Companies in the army, which feels like it doesn't happen too often in the background (the Watch Fortresses were considered to be stretched to breaking point before the advent of the Ultimaris Decree).  And as I reckon I'll likely want to take mixed regular- and Primaris Marine armies from now on, that makes me feel like I'm pushing the envelope a little too far.  Though, having said that, part of the background of the army is that it does tend to work alongside other Deathwatch Kill Teams (though I originally wrote that so that I could justify taking Watch Captain Artemis, Kill Team Cassius, Kill Team Crull, Kill Team Galatael, and/or Venerable Dreadnought Nihilus in my army despite none of them being from Fort Excalibris), but to regularly fight alongside multiple Kill Teams from another Watch Company of the same Watch Fortress feels a bit...  off.

• Turn Watch Company Tertius into a mixed regular-Marines/Primaris-Marines Watch Company AND create a second Watch Company which is also a mixed regular-Marines/Primaris-Marines Watch Company, and then only use Marines from a single Watch Company during the majority of my games (with the option to occasionally combine them rather than doing so for each game).

1. Pro: All the models will have matching Watch Company stripes and numerical Kill Team numbers.
2. Pro: I can take a Primaris Watch Captain, albeit not necessarily in the same army as my regular Watch Captain due to "separating" the Watch Companies.
3. Con: I theoretically have to split all of my models between the two Watch Companies, limiting my unit choices for any given army.

I would be very interested in seeing what other people have to say about the above set of choices (other than the obvious one of, "You're stressing out far too much about the fictional background and paint scheme of a bunch of toy soldiers!").

 

My Models

 

Regardless of how the above plays out, I'm definitely planning on using all of the tools at my disposal, including adding Primaris Marines in the army.

 

Currently, the models I have glued up look like the following.  I make use of magnets a lot so many of the models have multiple weapon options I can give them.

 

Models with a "magnetised left shoulder" currently have access to the following weapons (though I intend to expand this list with more options as I glue more of the army up): Bolt Pistol, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, Power Maul, Power Axe, Power Fist, or Xenophase Blade.  These are completely interchangeable with each other as the left shoulder pad of all Deathwatch Marines are identical (as opposed to the right shoulder pads) and all of the magnets in the shoulders have the same polarity.

 

Models with a "magnetised right wrist" currently have access to the following weapons (again, will be expanded to all pistol options later): Bolt Pistol, Plasma Pistol.

• 1 Watch Captain in Terminator Armour with Storm Bolter and Relic Blade (currently unmagnetised, but with the new options in the Codex I intend to tear the arms off and magnetise them to give him all of the options).
• 1 Librarian with Force Stave and pistol (in holster).
• 1 Chaplain with Crozius Arcanum and magnetised right wrist.
• 4 units of 5 Veterans:

1. 2 identical units of Watch Sergeant with Boltgun and magnetised left shoulder, Black Shield with Boltgun and magnetised left shoulder, Veteran with Chainsword and magnetised Combi-weapon (Combi-Plasma or Combi-Melta), Veteran with Boltgun, and Veteran with magnetised Deathwatch Frag Cannon or Infernus Heavy Bolter.
2. Watch Sergeant with magnetised right wrist (for any pistol) and magnetised left shoulder, Black Shield with twin Lightning Claws, 2 Veterans with Chainsword and Boltgun, and Veteran with Heavy Thunder Hammer.
3. Watch Sergeant with Stalker-Pattern Boltgun and magnetised left shoulder, 4 Veterans with Stalker-Patten Boltgun and Bolt Pistol (in retrospect, I should have glued them up with Chainswords, but I didn't have four sheathed Chainswords when I glued them up, so I guess I'm stuck paying the extra 4 points for them forever).

• 1 Venerable Dreadnought with Heavy Plasma Cannon, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon, and magnetised Storm Bolter or Heavy Flamer (will be magnetising the Twin Lascannon and Assault Cannon options eventually).
• Deathwatch Terminator with Storm Bolter, Power Fist, and Cyclone Missile Launcher (I'm tempted to tear off the Power Fist and magnetise that shoulder, so that I can take cheaper weapon options instead), and Deathwatch Terminator with Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield.
• Vanguard Veteran Sergeant with magnetised right wrist and magnetised left shoulder, Vanguard Veteran with Bolt Pistol and magnetised left shoulder, Vanguard Veteran with Plasma Pistol and magnetised left shoulder, Vanguard Veteran with Bolt Pistol and Storm Shield, and Vanguard Veteran with Heavy Thunder Hammer.
• Biker Sergeant with magnetised left shoulder, Biker with magnetised left shoulder, and 3 Bikers.
• Razorback with Twin Lascannons (magnetised so that I can give it Twin Heavy Bolters or Twin Assault Cannons (though neither are yet glued up) as well as a Storm Bolter or Hunter Killer Missile, or convert it into a Rhino).
• Corvus Blackstar with all possible weapon and wargear options magnetised.

In addition to these, I have enough unglued models to add the following:

• Watch Master.
• Watch Captain (nominally the same character as the Watch Captain in Terminator Armour, only in Power Armour), possibly to be converted to have the option of a Jump Pack.
• Librarian with Force Sword, possibly to be converted to have the option of a Jump Pack.
• 2 x Watch Captain Artemis (one for Artemis, the other...  unsure - probably as a conversion of some kind for another character).
• Kill Team Cassius.
• At least 20 more Veterans, including conversions for a "Strategium Command Team" (Sternguard bodies with Deathwatch arms, heads, and backpacks, including a "Banner Bearer" (no special rules) with Fort Excalibris's standard).
• 10 Dark Imperium Intercessors including 1-2 Sergeants.
• Primaris Apothecary.
• Another Venerable Dreadnought.
• Enough Terminators to make up to 10 models.
• Another 5 Vanguard Veterans.
• Another 5 Bikers.
• 3 Dark Imperium Inceptors including 1 Sergeant.
• 5 Dark Imperium Hellblasters including 1 Sergeant.
• A Deathwatch Land Raider I intend to magnetise such that it can be any of the three types.

As I mentioned before, I may have gone a little overboard with what I bought for my Deathwatch previously...

 

New Unit Ideas

 

Going forward, I'm interested in possibly assembling some of these unglued models (as well as buying some new Primaris models and gluing them) in the following configurations.  I'm interested as to what other people think of them.

 

"Assault" Portion

• 10 Veterans including Watch Sergeant with Deathwatch Shotgun and magnetised left shoulder, Black Shield with Deathwatch Shotgun and magnetised left shoulder, 2 Veterans with Deathwatch Shotgun and Storm Shield, 2-4 Veterans with Deathwatch Shotgun and Chainsword, and 2-4 Veterans with Deathwatch Frag Cannon.
• 5 Intercessors including Sergeant with Auto Bolt Rifle and Power Sword/Chainsword and 4 Intercessors with Auto Bolt Rifle, plus 4 Hellblasters with Assault Plasma Incinerators, and 1 Aggressor with either Flamestorm Gauntlets or Boltstorm Gauntlets and Fragstorm Grenade Launcher.

The idea with these two units is that they're both filled with Assault weapons, so can (literally) run straight up the board whilst laying down shooting, with the Intercessors taking no penalties to shooting due to the Aggressor.  The Veterans are more fragile but have Storm Shields whereas the Intercessors rely on their higher number of wounds to survive.  They'll be buffed by a Watch Captain, Watch Master, and/or an Apothecary, so I'll be able to fire the Assault Plasma Incinerators on Supercharge each turn.

 

I'm hoping that these two units will be good enough to form the core of most of my armies from now on, as opposed to the four 5-man Veteran squads I currently run.

 

Fire Support

• 5 Veterans including 4 Veterans with Missile Launchers and 1 Veteran with Stalker-Pattern Bolter.
• 5 Intercessors including Sergeant with Stalker Bolt Rifle and Power Sword/Chainsword and 4 Intercessors with Stalker Bolt Rifle, plus 4-5 Hellblasters with Heavy Plasma Incinerator, and 0-1 Aggressor with Boltstorm Gauntlets and Fragstorm Grenade Launcher.
• Primaris Watch Captain with Master-Crafted Stalker Bolt Rifle and Power Sword.
• Venerable or regular Dreadnought with Twin Lascannon and Missile Launcher.
• Redemptor Dreadnought with some combination of long-range weapons.

Some or all of these units will sit in my backfield (the Veterans will be added to the existing 5-man Stalker-Pattern Boltgun unit already glued up) on objectives giving me fire support.  The Primaris Watch Captain is fairly cheap and gives me a little bit of ranged support whilst buffing all of these units' To Hit rolls, as well as giving my Hellblasters the confidence to fire their weapons on the Supercharge setting.  There is the possibility of adding the Aggressor to the Intercessors so that they can actually move and shoot with no penalty, but I'm not so certain that's needed.

 

Combat Squad Fun

• 5 Veterans including 1 Watch Sergeant with Boltgun and magnetised left shoulder, Black Shield with Boltgun and magnetised left shoulder, 1-2 Veterans with Boltgun and Chainsword, and 1-2 Veterans with Deathwatch Frag Cannon, plus 4 Bikers with any melee weapon upgrades, and 1 Vanguard Veteran with any two melee/shooting weapons.
• 5 Intercessors including Sergeant with Power Sword/Chainsword and Bolt Rifle and 4 Intercessors with Bolt Rifles, plus 4 Inceptors with any weapon choices, and 1 Aggressor with any weapon choice.
• 6 Intercessors including Sergeant with Power Sword/Chainsword and Bolt Rifle and 5 Intercessors with Bolt Rifles, plus 4 Hellblasters with Plasma Incinerators.

The idea of these squads is to make use of the Combat Squads rule to combine models with unique rules that couldn't otherwise be combined together outside of a Veterans/Intercessor unit.  The first unit would split into 5 Veterans (well rounded weapon load out) and 4 Bikers + Vanguard Veteran, the latter of which acts as a fast-moving unit that shoots well and assaults well, and can fall back out of assault and still shoot and assault again on the same turn, with majority Toughness 5.  The second unit I'm not so set on, but combines the multiple shots of the Inceptors with the ability to run and still shoot at full capacity of the Aggressor, in a Toughness 5 unit.  I dunno, this doesn't seem quite as good as the other one, but I'm finding it difficult to come up with some combination of Primaris units that don't use Intercessors to take advantage of this.  The third one just splits evenly to give me two units of 3 Intercessors plus 2 Hellblasters, which seem like a pair of nice, all-round units that can hold ground and deal out some damage.

 

In Closing

 

That's all I've got to say on the matter right now.  I'm very interesting in hearing what other people think of my ideas for my army and my units, as I don't have a great deal of experience in 8th Edition and am probably letting my love of the background override my ability to make more sensible decisions.

 

Thanks for reading this far, and I hope you take the time to respond.

 

tl;dr

 

The two main questions I'm looking for feedback on are:

• How should I incorporate Primaris Marines into my existing Deathwatch army?
• How well would the listed unit load outs work?

[Vel'Cona]

Without going into much detail, it sounds like you have the vast majority of bases covered in your army.  I'd say just start playing as much as you can to get familiar with how DW will work in 8th edition and the new 'dex, then start sliding different units in as you find what does and doesn't work.  I wouldn't change your "core" list too much until you get 10 or so games in, though, as this will give you a good opportunity to figure out how the generalized builds function :)

[robofish7591]

Personally, I would make a second watch company for the primaris and play both of them together.  Yes, the deathwatch are already stretched thin as it is, but I don't think it would be too far fetched to have a squad work with a different company when their particular experience is needed.  That is just what I would do, if having two companies on the table bothers you fluff wise, I would probably say go with two mixed companies.

[Mobius0288]

 

tl;dr

 

The two main questions I'm looking for feedback on are:

• How should I incorporate Primaris Marines into my existing Deathwatch army?
• How well would the listed unit load outs work?

 

You're going to have to figure out for yourself the best synergy for your primaris marines. I personally have a mix of primaris and regular veterans, and it's a pretty strong combo. I use plain old 5-man intercessors (even now that the fortis kill teams are a thing) because they are durable. I may not have a guardsman battalion "battery" but the primaris stick around longer then you think, and can push the front lines if given enough support (HQs for rerolls, apothecaries, etc.).

 

On that same note, pimping out your primaris kill teams to the max still get pretty expesnive. For example: 5 intercessors, 4 hellblasters and an inceptor? Ya totally a good combo, but that's just one unit putting it well over 200 pts. Can you afford that with the rest of your army? It just depends. I tried out that particular example and found it better to break it out over a couple of intercessor squads, and take an inceptor one of those squads. Now I run 2 units of intercessors marching forward (1 regular and 1 with the 2 hellblasters/1 inceptor), and the 3rd unit following as a support unit (intercessors and 2 hellblasters).

 

I kept them cheap so I can still grab razorbacks and blackstars to push my regular veterans into combat faster, but still gives me decent firepower on all fronts. Try not to put all your eggs in one basket (in this case, one particular kill team).

 

Some good references to check out:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347550-kill-team-compositionsbuilds/

 

.... I thought I remember there being another one but couldn't find it. Would suggest checking out some of the Army lists posted in the other category if you haven't done so. It's a lot of digging but there's actually a lot of good conversation in some of those threads.

 

I would also say, go ahead and compile a list of what you want to run based on the models you have, then we can look at how many points are left and help from there. It really does depend on what you want to run and your own play style. All out assault? Castle up? Deep strike and hold?

 

Some things to consider and hopefully get ya going in a direction.