Summarized report of my first 8th ed. game!

[Brother Abbot]

Hi brothers!

 

This weekend I played my first 8^th edition game, at 1500 against Deathwatch.

 

Overall, I found that I knew the rules and general tactics much better that I though I would, even though I made a few big mistakes.

 

My rival played with a Repulsor and a few of those units with lots of different models and different armaments and different choices of ammo and different everything.

 

I built my list forcing myself to use only painted models, so I could not use the Hellblasters I am close to finishing for my ETL vowl. I only have sniper scouts with camo cloaks. I thought they were expensive. But more on this later on the post.

 

My list:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) [38 PL, 681pts] ++

 

+ HQ [14 PL, 254pts] +

 

Azrael [9 PL, 180pts]

. Warlord: Brilliant Strategist

 

Primaris Lieutenants [5 PL, 74pts]

. Primaris Lieutenant [5 PL, 74pts]: Bolt pistol, Power sword [4pts], The Eye of the Unseen

 

+ Troops [13 PL, 245pts] +

 

Scout Squad [4 PL, 90pts]: Camo cloak [15pts]

. 4x Scout (Sniper rifle) [60pts]: 4x Sniper rifle [16pts]

. Scout Sergeant [15pts]: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle [4pts]

 

Scout Squad [4 PL, 90pts]: Camo cloak [15pts]

. 4x Scout (Sniper rifle) [60pts]: 4x Sniper rifle [16pts]

. Scout Sergeant [15pts]: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle [4pts]

 

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 65pts]: 4x Space Marine [52pts]

. Space Marine Sergeant [13pts]: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

 

+ Heavy Support [11 PL, 182pts] +

 

Devastators [11 PL, 182pts]: Armorium Cherub [5pts], 3x Space Marine [39pts]

. Space Marine (Heavy Bolter) [23pts]: Heavy bolter [10pts]

. 3x Space Marine (Plasma Cannon) [102pts]: 3x Plasma cannon [63pts]

. Space Marine Sergeant [13pts]: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

 

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) [40 PL, 815pts] ++

 

+ HQ [10 PL, 183pts] +

 

Sammael on Corvex [10 PL, 183pts]

 

+ Fast Attack [22 PL, 432pts] +

 

Ravenwing Attack Bike Squad [3 PL, 64pts]

. Ravenwing Attack Bike [3 PL, 64pts]: Multi-melta [27pts]

. . Space Marine bike [2pts]: Twin boltgun [2pts]

 

Ravenwing Black Knights [12 PL, 230pts]

. Ravenwing Black Knight [46pts]: Corvus Hammer

. Ravenwing Black Knight [46pts]: Corvus Hammer

. Ravenwing Black Knight [46pts]: Corvus Hammer

. Ravenwing Black Knight [46pts]: Corvus Hammer

. Ravenwing Huntmaster [46pts]: Corvus Hammer

. . Black Knight Bike: Plasma Talon

 

Ravenwing Darkshroud [7 PL, 138pts]: Heavy bolter [10pts]

 

+ Flyer [8 PL, 200pts] +

 

Ravenwing Dark Talon [8 PL, 200pts]: 2x Hurricane bolter [20pts]

 

 

Into the game itself: I deployed Azrael with the devs and the Liutenant inside some ruins on top of an objective.

 

The Ravenwing took the flank with the idea of moving forward. The tacticals were in front, to move and get an objective in the middle The scouts infiltrated to sit on two objectives.

 

My rival castled up in the back.

 

I lost the roll to go first but seized the initiative! Great way to begin my journey into 8^th edition.

 

I don’t want to bore you with per-turn details, so this is the summary:

• During the first 3 turns I managed to score lots of objective.  My Ravenwing meanwhile moved forwards and released mayhem on his lines.
• I lost Sammael because of bad rookie positioning (and forgetting about his 4++).
• I was way ahead in points, but my rival was on his way to tabling me. In turn five I managed to hide a single scout out of sight, rolled to continue but the game was over (and won!!!!!)
• It was a great fun game, and I am really happy to have won.

Some thoughts:

• The camo cloak of the scouts won me the game. The lone scout saved a -4 hellblaster wound thanks to the coak and being in cover with a 6.
• The attack bike was useless in everything but attracting some fire. 1 shot melta does not seem useful.
• Hellfire Shells are awesome. Consistent damage every turn.
• The Repulsor was very resilient but not as harmful as I thought.
• Even after the game I do not have a clue about what ammo and stuff were used by the Deathwatch. Just trusted my rival on the profiles….

A picture of the happy MVP:

 

 

Next steps: FINISH PAINTING to be able to build the list I have in mind, and play a few more games. It was really fun!

 

I hope this wasn't too long.

 

Happy to add another victory for the 1st and for the Lion!!!

[Gillyfish]

Congratulations on the victory, Brother Abbot. It sounds like your knowledge of the game served you well. 

 

Do you think miore attack bikes would have helped mitigate the misses rolled?

[Indefragable]

Sounds like you played smart and focussed: that will often lead to victory more than anything else.

 

For a 1st game in a new (to you) edition...you did remarkably well...I wouldn't even worry about the things you forgot/didn't realize b/c next time you won't.

 

As for the battle and your decisions in it, what went right, what went wrong, and what could have been done differently? Things like dice rolls are what they are, so there' no use complaining about rolling bad...but what you can do is analyze your decisions and --with the benefit of hindsight--determine if they were in fact the best choice in that given moment.

 

 

Wondering if other players can comment on this:

 

anecdotally, I notice that a lot of DA players in 8th are winning...but getting almost tabled at the same time. (again anecdotally) it seems like Ravenwing-heavy lists are almost glass-cannons in terms of their ability to do work early on, but then get rolled up quite easily as things progress. Would ya'll agree?

[Kasper_Hawser]

Excellent job on your first game. I wonder what type of mission though, it sounds like one of the Chapter approved ones where you score points at end of every turn as opposed to end of game only count the objectives under control.

 

Your list seems pretty solid, just worried about your lone Devastator squad which can easily die unless you put a lot of non-heavy weapons bolter mooks to take the shots. Then again,you also have a Dark talon AND a Darkshroud, so quite a fair chance of you surviving a round of shooting, assuming the other side didn't just spam artillery of course.

 

Also you are right, Multimeltas are really not worth their points these days, even with Sammael rerolling all missed hits (1 & 2, not 3) Although it is somewhat better if you put them on devastators and have them on the move in Rhinos for example, where at least they have a signum for +1 BS, and cherub to reload and fire again.

 

I also advise to make room for a Rhino or Razorback for your Tacticals. Against non-marine armies, 2 storm bolters on the Rhino will pump out 8 shots at 12" while protecting your obsec troops. Of course this is better for objective mission.

[Brother Abbot]

@Gillyfish: More attack bikes would surely mitigate the misses, but I had the attack bike to cheaply fill the outrider detachment. Might try to use it again inside a bike squad, but I doubt I'll try it on its own.

 

@Indefragable: I would definetly redo the list to have more resilinence. The Dark Talon soaked a lot of shooting, and had it lasted an additional turn the rest of the army would have suffered a lot less.

 

Another problem I faced against Deathwatch was that my rival claimed he had some kind of ammo that ignored to hit penalties, thus negating the effects of the Darkshroud.

 

As for things I would do different, I would meassure and make sure I do not leave Sammael out in the open after a successful fight fase.

 

@Kasper_Hawser: I will change the plasma dev squad for hellblasters, but I think I will keep including at least a dev squad with a single heavy bolter and 4 tacs for the hellfire shells stratagem. 

 

You are right, I have to give the razorbacks and Rhinos a try, but this list (and the 2000 point version) was focused towards advancing with the ravenwing towards suicice, meanwhile releasing hell from the back from Azrael, the Primaris Liutenant and the Hellblasters (If I ever get to finish them).

 

Thank you very much for the feedack!

[Indefragable]

 

@Indefragable: I would definetly redo the list to have more resilinence. The Dark Talon soaked a lot of shooting, and had it lasted an additional turn the rest of the army would have suffered a lot less.

 

Another problem I faced against Deathwatch was that my rival claimed he had some kind of ammo that ignored to hit penalties, thus negating the effects of the Darkshroud.

 

As for things I would do different, I would meassure and make sure I do not leave Sammael out in the open after a successful fight fase.

 

 

I think it's Dragonfire bolts

Hidden Content

Add 1 to the hit rolls for this weapon when targeting a unit that is in cover

though I am not entirely sure how that wording specifically interacts with the buffs of the Dark Shroud (does it just say +1 to save or does it say +1 to save as if in cover or somesuch).

 

Obviously next time you will be more aware of Characters' positioning...but I mean in terms of the overall battle: do you feel you had a sound strategy going into it? If so, could the execution have been better or did the opponent just do everything right to counter it? Or was the strategy itself flawed and you could have done xyz moves earlier on better, etc... ?

 

I find that those types of analyses after a battle are the most crucial to separating the luck from the skill.

[robofish7591]

Just as an FYI, dragonfire rounds got FAQed to only get the +1 to hit when the target is actually in cover, they don't work unless the whole target unit is standing in terrain.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Just as an FYI, dragonfire rounds got FAQed to only get the +1 to hit when the target is actually in cover, they don't work unless the whole target unit is standing in terrain.

 

Either way, I really don't think flyers are capable of getting cover unless the table really have a lot of TALL terrain which can then hide the (usually) tall flyers. Like a whole bunch of bastions. If just ruins, I think the flyers are actually mostly higher than the ruins, therefore cannot claim cover from 50% obscured.

 

At least that's how my meta plays it, not sure if past FAQs have clarified this point. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

 

I think your general plan is OK, but a bit fragile as you mentioned you only had a scout at last turn. Perhaps with better positioning, you can continue to use this list as your staple. Maybe you don't need the rhino for the tactical, but as long as you are going down the scout route, then I suggest forgoing the tacticals all together and use another scout squad without sniper rifles for board control instead.

 

Also, where was Azrael in all of this? I think he is a bit of an overkill if you just used him to babysit the devastators, considering they already reroll ones on their own when not moving. A very nasty counter assault unit though.

 

Barring Azrael, I would recomend the Talonmaster to make sure your Ravenwing reroll wounds.

[facmanpob]

Wondering if other players can comment on this:

 

anecdotally, I notice that a lot of DA players in 8th are winning...but getting almost tabled at the same time. (again anecdotally) it seems like Ravenwing-heavy lists are almost glass-cannons in terms of their ability to do work early on, but then get rolled up quite easily as things progress. Would ya'll agree?

I've played 3 games in the last few weeks (my first since returning to the hobby after 5 years out). I have played Ravenwing heavy and am currently 2-1.

 

I have beaten Primaris Ultramarines and Khorne Chaos Marines led by Khârn, and was defeated earlier this week by Typhus and the Death Guard.

 

In every game I have finished deployment 1st and have won the roll off for 1st turn. Each time I was totally in control of both the board and the tempo by the end of turn 2. However, in all 3 games I have lost way more than 50% of my army (nearer to 75%) by the end of the game, so yes, I think your assessment is right. I've only been playing at 1500 points so far, but as I increase to 1750 and above, I am definitely going to add in some MSU scouts/tacticals with lascannons and swap to a Battalion detachment for a bit more backfield objective holding ability. The bikes/BKs/DT/Talonmaster/Libby on bike combo is super effective, but sometimes withers under a stiff breeze!

 

My list atm:

 

Talonmaster (Brilliant Strategist Warlord Trait, Heavenfall Blade)

Libby on Bike (Aversion, Righteous Repugnance)

Melta bike squad (3 bikes) + MMAB

Full bike squad + HBAB

5 x BKs

1 x Dark Talon

Devs w/PC, ML, LC

Ven Dread with 2 x Twin Autocannons

[Brother Abbot]

@Indefragable I think the strategy as a whole was ok, I messed up with positioning an lacked the required knowledge of my opponents army. At some point I think I should have charged the repulsor with Sammael instead of charged one of his units with both Sammael and the Black Knights.  The lack of resilence was due to the nature of the army and mostly the way 

I executed things.

 

@Kasper_Houser You are right, Azrael was definetly overkill, but the 4++ a lot for the heavy bolter to survive and deliver consistent mortals with the Hellfire Shells stratagem. I just built the Talonmaster and is ready for my next vow for ETL.

 

@facmanpob Do you remember the Khorne Chaos Marines list you opponent was using?    

[Indefragable]

@Indefragable I think the strategy as a whole was ok, I messed up with positioning an lacked the required knowledge of my opponents army. At some point I think I should have charged the repulsor with Sammael instead of charged one of his units with both Sammael and the Black Knights.  The lack of resilence was due to the nature of the army and mostly the way 

I executed things.

 

It's a good exercise to evaluate performance in a game based on the information you had available at that time. So knowledge of an opponent's army is something that you couldn't really help with, beyond asking your opponent 40,000 questions or taking an hr before the game to read his entire Codex. Rather, how do you feel you did considering what you did/did not know? Rhetorical question...you don't need to answer, but that's a good way to analyze things: "considering I didn't really know what the Repulsor was capable of, I felt it was a good decision to focus on the threats that I knew would be immediate instead..." etc...

 

I don't want to derail things, but just something to keep in mind. Overall, considering it was your first game back, let alone in a brand-new-to-you edition, I think you had an excellent showing.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

@Indefragable I think the strategy as a whole was ok, I messed up with positioning an lacked the required knowledge of my opponents army. At some point I think I should have charged the repulsor with Sammael instead of charged one of his units with both Sammael and the Black Knights.  The lack of resilence was due to the nature of the army and mostly the way 

I executed things.

 

It's a good exercise to evaluate performance in a game based on the information you had available at that time. So knowledge of an opponent's army is something that you couldn't really help with, beyond asking your opponent 40,000 questions or taking an hr before the game to read his entire Codex. Rather, how do you feel you did considering what you did/did not know? Rhetorical question...you don't need to answer, but that's a good way to analyze things: "considering I didn't really know what the Repulsor was capable of, I felt it was a good decision to focus on the threats that I knew would be immediate instead..." etc...

 

I don't want to derail things, but just something to keep in mind. Overall, considering it was your first game back, let alone in a brand-new-to-you edition, I think you had an excellent showing.

 

 

Amen to that, you did many things very well Brother Abbott, far better than many first timers, and this discussion shows how wise and mature you are to seek out your possible mistakes. As expected of a crossdressing bolter monk, you do the 1st Legion proud.

 

I wonder why you say you should have charged the Repulsor though. The Repulsor has the fly rule, so would have retreated and still shot you up. Unless you want to propel Samael closer so he can consolidate into ANOTHER enemy unit to prevent them from shooting. 

 

we can't be expected to remember every single enemy codex and their complex strategy, but thankfully most of them have a "general wisdom" or tactic to them you can expect. Like Ultras having good synergy but not especially good CC, Drukhari being blistering fast but even twin assault cannons can take down their paper boats, or Eldar being psychic pansies that can nevertheless muck your day if you don't pressure them, and Space Wolves, well, don't want to deride my own chapter too much, but we're generally just slightly better in CC and (once upon a time), dominated the mid field with our doubly special weapon tacticals, and of course, the (shudder) vaunted Thunderwolves and Wulfen which outclass all SM closse combat options. but we don't have chapter tactics, and thunderwolves look ridiculous.

 

So I suggest you read the top part of the 1d4 chan tactics of the enemy codex you face just to get their general pros and cons first. If you got time, read further, but they mostly adhere to the stereotype.

 

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Dark_Angels(8E)

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Eldar(8E)

 

Except Daemons. Bloody randomness is still there even in 8th. Tzeetch in particular, God I hate them, even the players who play them.