autek mor Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 bring back the double twin autocannon option on codex version of dreadnoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 bring back the double twin autocannon option on codex version of dreadnoughts. It still exists in the Forgeworld Index I believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCE1981 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 @Ishagu You forgot Whitescars, and I would give Ultramarine vehicles the same trait they have now Whitescars - Unchanged, but add units of Whitescars Bike Squads gain objective secured. Vehicles suffer no penalty to firing if they move less than half their speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodWolves Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Im glad more people are getting involved with trying to create change! I appreciate the understanding of not trying to change the entire wheel by asking for new units but modifying current ones. Im still working on the Black Templar Index and have a thread over on the Black Templar page if you'd like some ideas. Im still working on making the Black Templars their own Index to be the Non Compliant Codex Astartes they always were/are. My addition: I think most people I have enountered have all agreed that Chaplains should gain the ability to Deny the Witch during an enemy psychic phase. For old Black Templars nostalgia, I'd name the ability "Master of Sanctity". It would make the Chaplain a worthy choice of being an HQ vs always auto picking a Captain or Lieutenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autek mor Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 bring back the double twin autocannon option on codex version of dreadnoughts. It still exists in the Forgeworld Index I believe? that it does but as heavy support where as before the rifleman dread as some called it was previously in the elite slot. having it in elite as before would help in a few ways. 1. an additional cheap fire support unit. more options per slots will lead to more varied lists 2. unlocking forgeworld relics without having to use other elite units that may not even fit in your list or you flat out don't want to take 3. an alternative to the stalker although not as good against flyers but a higher rate of fire as things currently stand also for another unit allow vanguard vets to do an additional +1 damage on all wounds rolled on a 6 or if thats too underwhelming, make it a mortal wound instead of the +1. it wouldn't give hordes any nightmares anytime soon but at least it will give them a better chance against other elite assaults units, monstrous creatures and characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Re-roll back to 2nd edition :yes: Maybe 3rd. Or 3.5. Except without the infinite blocking terrain thing ... that was not beuno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle captain corpus Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 You're sending this to GW....well good luck with that. I can count on the fingers of a blind butchers hand how many of these get read trust me. But hey, it's your hobby. BCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 And not trying gets you... nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCE1981 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 bring back the double twin autocannon option on codex version of dreadnoughts.It still exists in the Forgeworld Index I believe? that it does but as heavy support where as before the rifleman dread as some called it was previously in the elite slot. having it in elite as before would help in a few ways. 1. an additional cheap fire support unit. more options per slots will lead to more varied lists 2. unlocking forgeworld relics without having to use other elite units that may not even fit in your list or you flat out don't want to take 3. an alternative to the stalker although not as good against flyers but a higher rate of fire as things currently stand. The Mortis Dreadnought isn’t a Relic, and the current Space Marine Elite slot is extremely crowded. The alternative to the Stalker would be the Mortis Contemptor Dreadnought, at 166 pts with 2x Twin Autocannons you hit fliers needing the same numbers and everything else needing 2s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 There's only one thing I'd want - S5 T5 Terminators. Yeah, Primaris on the move, Oldmarines on the way out, I know... But that's what I'd like to see most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 My main issues with this edition are command points, and allies. By lowering the cost of marines you help them with these issues but I think you fix the fraction more than the game. Because of the way command points are generated your pushed towards cheap troops to unlock them, the ally system allows you to ignore that armies weaknesses by addressing them with specialized formations, and rewards you for it. So I think your changes are sound but I think changing command points so that they scale by point level (so for example for a 2000 point game you start with 15), then decrease based on the amount of allies you have (so 0-20% full cp, 21-40% 12 cp, greater than 4-% 9 cp) would make running a single fraction a lot more viable. I think requiring a battalion or brigade in addition to the detachment limits would be necessary, and probably limiting warlord traits and relics to the largest detachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAR Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 With all the fluff, back stories stating their importance to the Imperium, having their own Relic which is way better then their founding Chapters bolt pistol , their own warlord trait which is ok, and a Chapter master Special Character, yet Crimson Fists are just blue Imperial Fists......Why has no one created a chapter trait for Crimson Fists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Crimson Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Space Marine codex, like others, should have some special detachement. A Space Marine brigade ( read here company) should be 6 troops, 2 fast attack, 2 heavy support, 3 elites (command squad splitted in parts) a lieutenant and a captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autek mor Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 bring back the double twin autocannon option on codex version of dreadnoughts.It still exists in the Forgeworld Index I believe? that it does but as heavy support where as before the rifleman dread as some called it was previously in the elite slot. having it in elite as before would help in a few ways. 1. an additional cheap fire support unit. more options per slots will lead to more varied lists 2. unlocking forgeworld relics without having to use other elite units that may not even fit in your list or you flat out don't want to take 3. an alternative to the stalker although not as good against flyers but a higher rate of fire as things currently stand. The Mortis Dreadnought isn’t a Relic, and the current Space Marine Elite slot is extremely crowded. The alternative to the Stalker would be the Mortis Contemptor Dreadnought, at 166 pts with 2x Twin Autocannons you hit fliers needing the same numbers and everything else needing 2s. please pardon my wording, i know it's not a relic, what i meant to say is bring back the autocannon mortis that was available in the elite slot in previous editions. i disagree about the elites being overcrowded unless you mean the relic units and even then you can take a vanguard detachment if you really want to go nuts with forgeworld. looking at the current elite choices in the current codex, what do you have? who takes 2-3 units of terminators, 2-3 old school dreads, 2-3 assault centurions? or 2-3 vanguard vets?.....aggressors may get some play despite lack of mobility because they are very good at what they do, redemptor dread packs a lot of guns but is pricey. with so many armies that can outshoot you with cheaper units or simply tarpit your terminators and other similar units, the mortis in the elite slot adds some much needed extra firepower at a low cost compared to some other more overcosted units in the same slot that are not that great at what they are supposed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShibeKing Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Black Templar Intercessors carrying chainswords sounds badass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Rifleman Dreadnoughts are still legal units without using the Mortis rules. They're an Index option and thus remain usable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autek mor Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Rifleman Dreadnoughts are still legal units without using the Mortis rules. They're an Index option and thus remain usable. YESSSSSSSSSSSSS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCE1981 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 bring back the double twin autocannon option on codex version of dreadnoughts.It still exists in the Forgeworld Index I believe?that it does but as heavy support where as before the rifleman dread as some called it was previously in the elite slot. having it in elite as before would help in a few ways. 1. an additional cheap fire support unit. more options per slots will lead to more varied lists 2. unlocking forgeworld relics without having to use other elite units that may not even fit in your list or you flat out don't want to take 3. an alternative to the stalker although not as good against flyers but a higher rate of fire as things currently stand. The Mortis Dreadnought isn’t a Relic, and the current Space Marine Elite slot is extremely crowded. The alternative to the Stalker would be the Mortis Contemptor Dreadnought, at 166 pts with 2x Twin Autocannons you hit fliers needing the same numbers and everything else needing 2s. please pardon my wording, i know it's not a relic, what i meant to say is bring back the autocannon mortis that was available in the elite slot in previous editions. i disagree about the elites being overcrowded unless you mean the relic units and even then you can take a vanguard detachment if you really want to go nuts with forgeworld. looking at the current elite choices in the current codex, what do you have? who takes 2-3 units of terminators, 2-3 old school dreads, 2-3 assault centurions? or 2-3 vanguard vets?.....aggressors may get some play despite lack of mobility because they are very good at what they do, redemptor dread packs a lot of guns but is pricey. with so many armies that can outshoot you with cheaper units or simply tarpit your terminators and other similar units, the mortis in the elite slot adds some much needed extra firepower at a low cost compared to some other more overcosted units in the same slot that are not that great at what they are supposed to do. You forgot about Ancients, Apothecaries, Company Veterans(you can buy just two of them!), Reivers, Aggressors(I love these guys as deepstrike denial), Sternguard, and Champions all cheap options. The Heavy Support role just doesn’t have many inexpensive options. Try as I might I don’t get how people think minimum sized Dev Squads are worth it, as an example in my last game my chaos opponent brought 3x minimum Havoc Squads with a mixed loadout, he went first and scratched my Leviathan, I opened up with my Mortis Contemptors and deleted all three squads. Its the Heavy Support section not the elites that needs the love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MistaGav Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I think most of those points changes are a step in the right direction, theres a few I thought looked a bit too extreme and i would pull back on. Here's what I think on them and some other changes. Assaulkt/Dev squads - 11 Pts Aggressors – 18 Pts Terminators – 20 Pts Predators – 70 Pts Drop Pod – 48 Pts Redemptor Dreadnought – 100 Pts Repulsor – 170 Pts Some weapon ones: Cyclone Missile Launcher - 30 pts Flamer/Combi - 7/9 Plasma/Combi - 11/13 Grav/Combi - 13/15Melta/combi - 15/17 Multi Melta/Twin - 22/44 Assault Cannon/Twin - 20/40 Plus a few Dark Angel specific ones: Deathwing Knights - 35 Pts Ravenwing Bike Squad - 20 Pts Ravenwing Attack Bike - 30 Pts Ravenwing Land Speeders - 50 PtsRavenwing Black Knights - 35 PtsRavenwing Dark Talon - 160 Deathwing/Ravenwing 'Characters' Apothecaries, Champions, Standards should all get about 20% drop points.Predator, Vindicator, Whirlwind, Stalker, Hunter should be allowed 'squads' of 1-3.Make all terminators 2+ WS/BS, more flexibility in weapon options like Deathwatch have and heavy weapons of 1-3 even in a 5 man squad.Dreadnought combat weapon - 'Sweep attack' STR user, AP-2, D1. Make 2 hit rolls for each attack made with this weapon, instead of 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autek mor Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 bring back the double twin autocannon option on codex version of dreadnoughts.It still exists in the Forgeworld Index I believe?that it does but as heavy support where as before the rifleman dread as some called it was previously in the elite slot. having it in elite as before would help in a few ways. 1. an additional cheap fire support unit. more options per slots will lead to more varied lists 2. unlocking forgeworld relics without having to use other elite units that may not even fit in your list or you flat out don't want to take 3. an alternative to the stalker although not as good against flyers but a higher rate of fire as things currently stand. The Mortis Dreadnought isn’t a Relic, and the current Space Marine Elite slot is extremely crowded. The alternative to the Stalker would be the Mortis Contemptor Dreadnought, at 166 pts with 2x Twin Autocannons you hit fliers needing the same numbers and everything else needing 2s. please pardon my wording, i know it's not a relic, what i meant to say is bring back the autocannon mortis that was available in the elite slot in previous editions. i disagree about the elites being overcrowded unless you mean the relic units and even then you can take a vanguard detachment if you really want to go nuts with forgeworld. looking at the current elite choices in the current codex, what do you have? who takes 2-3 units of terminators, 2-3 old school dreads, 2-3 assault centurions? or 2-3 vanguard vets?.....aggressors may get some play despite lack of mobility because they are very good at what they do, redemptor dread packs a lot of guns but is pricey. with so many armies that can outshoot you with cheaper units or simply tarpit your terminators and other similar units, the mortis in the elite slot adds some much needed extra firepower at a low cost compared to some other more overcosted units in the same slot that are not that great at what they are supposed to do. You forgot about Ancients, Apothecaries, Company Veterans(you can buy just two of them!), Reivers, Aggressors(I love these guys as deepstrike denial), Sternguard, and Champions all cheap options. The Heavy Support role just doesn’t have many inexpensive options. Try as I might I don’t get how people think minimum sized Dev Squads are worth it, as an example in my last game my chaos opponent brought 3x minimum Havoc Squads with a mixed loadout, he went first and scratched my Leviathan, I opened up with my Mortis Contemptors and deleted all three squads. Its the Heavy Support section not the elites that needs the love. the funny part is that i see more ancients than terminators, centurions, sternguard and vanguard. the elites definitely need more units to be elite as the fluff would suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Although not against the rules, per se, can we please not quote 5+ posts? Save the cheerleader, save the internet kinda thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slan Drakkos Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Well I won't participate in this topic then however let me comment one thing: Any character that can take a flamer, melta, combi-flamer or combi-melta can do so as a free upgrade. Just no. Not the free stuff crap. I'm super glad we left that back in 7th. In a system that's all about balancing things by points giving stuff for free is just utterly stupid. This. Let their flamers/meltas do a little more damage or give them a slight bump to toughness (since sallies normal armor is artificer level), but don't give anyone something for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autek mor Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 i still feel the centurions need more, points drop made on the aggressors in chapter approved only made assault centurions even more redundant. perhaps give them the ability to teleport with a 5+ invulnerable save at no additional price hike on the OPs post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 The Centurions should be around the 30 points make without wargear. Remember you get a 2+ save and t5, as well as 3 wounds. This would make them worthwhile, but they also need to be allowed in Drop Pods as they are sooooo slow. Another complaint we can bring up is the sheer cost of the weapon upgrades. Necron Destroyers illustrate how badly costed Centurions are. Destroyers have a similar stat-line with effective firepower, but amazing mobility AND fly on top for a fraction of the cost. Well I won't participate in this topic then however let me comment one thing: Any character that can take a flamer, melta, combi-flamer or combi-melta can do so as a free upgrade. Just no. Not the free stuff crap. I'm super glad we left that back in 7th. In a system that's all about balancing things by points giving stuff for free is just utterly stupid. This. Let their flamers/meltas do a little more damage or give them a slight bump to toughness (since sallies normal armor is artificer level), but don't give anyone something for free. I've already agreed to remove this, yet I find it odd to see people reacting so adversely when relics are free and are much more impactful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 One relic is free. One, in the entire army regardless of size, and not all are impactful. That can depend greatly on employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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