Kill Team Focus: Deathwatch

[Black Knight]

No cost for vets, their bolt gun is free. It is however 4 points for Primaris as their rifle costs two plus you also have a pistol on them that costs 2, so 4 total.

[LordCommanderSamirus]

However Vets do cost 2 more base points than Tactical Marines. They do also have 1 additional attack and leadership as well. So between those and SIA its 2 points more.

[mjrwaud]

Just putting together my own Kill Team last night and thought this seemed like an alright squad. Comments are definitely appreciated!

 

Veteran Sgt. - Leader - Combi-Melta + Xenophase Blade (The melta seems like it'd be good due its multi-wound ability, right?)

Black Shield - Zealot - Power Maul/Sword + Storm Shield (Maul or Sword, which seems better?)

Veteran gunner - Heavy - Frag Cannon (Obligatory)

Veteran - Sniper - Stalker Pattern Boltgun + Power Maul/Sword (Stalker seems cool, but is it worth it over the closer distances in Kill Team? P. weapon was just from spare points)

Veteran - Heavy Thunder Hammer (Overkill?)

 

* Noticed I had one too many specialists... took away combat specialization from veteran with the hvy thunder hammer, but now he seems even less worth it.

[Tonius]

Nice team !

I prefer power mauls over swords because I think it’s Better to wound on 3+ than to reduce the save by 3.

For the rest, it seems cool enough

[Black Knight]

Sword or Maul depends on your enemy, the maul will make wounding easier for T3 enemies(Guard, Eldar, Zombies!), while the sword helps against any T4+ with 4+armor(Marines, Necrons). I was thinking of having one of each in the roster to change out when needed.

 

I wouldn't use the stalker unless your playing a double sized map, SIA makes the normal bolter comparable. Plus if you take a stalker you shouldn't need a CC weapon if he is at the back.

 

Not sure on the multi damage weapons yet, but we have to find a use for the Heavy Thunder Hammer!

 

As you said the rest is pretty standard, although I will be making my leader with a shield just to see if it helps with keeping him alive longer. But in turn it kind of throws him up front anyway without a ranged weapon.

[Lemondish]

Sword or Maul depends on your enemy, the maul will make wounding easier for T3 enemies(Guard, Eldar, Zombies!), while the sword helps against any T4+ with 4+armor(Marines, Necrons). I was thinking of having one of each in the roster to change out when needed.

 

I wouldn't use the stalker unless your playing a double sized map, SIA makes the normal bolter comparable. Plus if you take a stalker you shouldn't need a CC weapon if he is at the back.

 

Not sure on the multi damage weapons yet, but we have to find a use for the Heavy Thunder Hammer!

 

As you said the rest is pretty standard, although I will be making my leader with a shield just to see if it helps with keeping him alive longer. But in turn it kind of throws him up front anyway without a ranged weapon.

 

Totally agreed on the sword versus maul point. Diversifying the roster here is key - plus, both look cool, and that's really what matters.

 

I think the benefit of the stalker is the guaranteed two shots regardless of the map size or range, which makes it a more reliable option for sniper specialists. Plus, it provides -1 AP over the bolter, which is pretty good. 

 

Weapons with more than one damage seem quite strong to me, as they multiply the chance of a model actually dying. Lots of shots and mortal wounds don't have the same effect, since extra shots are ignored once a model is reduced to zero wounds. 

 

Weapons with very short ranges really get punished by the negative to hit modifiers, though, so things like the combi-melta might be kind of weak unless you're getting up in someone's face - which seems ill advised for leaders. Perhaps worth adding a normal vet with one to a roster rather than giving it to a sergeant, and then use that guy as a mobile heavy specialist that rushes around without the advance penalty and at level 2 can kind of hamstring a powerful model. 

[Black Knight]

DW to me feel a little like Knights, with Knights you are wasting points if you aren't running in to melee range, even with the ranged Crusader.

 

DW normal vets have access to CC weapons which usually only Sgts or leaders have in other armies. With the amount of attacks and the high armour values I will be running all my guys into the other army.

[azn.gamer]

DW to me feel a little like Knights, with Knights you are wasting points if you aren't running in to melee range, even with the ranged Crusader.

I understand the point, but GKs don't have SIA which by itself is really powerful too.

[mjrwaud]

 

Sword or Maul depends on your enemy, the maul will make wounding easier for T3 enemies(Guard, Eldar, Zombies!), while the sword helps against any T4+ with 4+armor(Marines, Necrons). I was thinking of having one of each in the roster to change out when needed.

 

I wouldn't use the stalker unless your playing a double sized map, SIA makes the normal bolter comparable. Plus if you take a stalker you shouldn't need a CC weapon if he is at the back.

 

Not sure on the multi damage weapons yet, but we have to find a use for the Heavy Thunder Hammer!

 

As you said the rest is pretty standard, although I will be making my leader with a shield just to see if it helps with keeping him alive longer. But in turn it kind of throws him up front anyway without a ranged weapon.

 

Totally agreed on the sword versus maul point. Diversifying the roster here is key - plus, both look cool, and that's really what matters.

 

I think the benefit of the stalker is the guaranteed two shots regardless of the map size or range, which makes it a more reliable option for sniper specialists. Plus, it provides -1 AP over the bolter, which is pretty good. 

 

Weapons with more than one damage seem quite strong to me, as they multiply the chance of a model actually dying. Lots of shots and mortal wounds don't have the same effect, since extra shots are ignored once a model is reduced to zero wounds. 

 

Weapons with very short ranges really get punished by the negative to hit modifiers, though, so things like the combi-melta might be kind of weak unless you're getting up in someone's face - which seems ill advised for leaders. Perhaps worth adding a normal vet with one to a roster rather than giving it to a sergeant, and then use that guy as a mobile heavy specialist that rushes around without the advance penalty and at level 2 can kind of hamstring a powerful model. 

 

 

Definitely good points everyone!

 

Sword vs. Maul really does seem to depend on who you're up against and it's worth having one of each in the roster. I chose Maul because wounding T3 on a 2+ and T4/T5 on a 3+ makes it feel like it's advantage is a little more generally useful than the sword (better generally but worse against specific targets).

 

Still on the fence about the stalker bolter... with the penalty to hit on targets > 1/2 the weapon range it makes me think that its longer range and two shots might still be really good on a small map. Time will tell!

 

With regards to the Sgt. with Combi-Melta / Xenophase... I figured the leader should be able to be reasonably effective at all ranges (long range shooting = bolter / Mid-short shooting = Melta / Melee = Xeno) and against all targets, although not exactly amazing at any of those roles.

 

The pure melee members (Blackshield / Hvy. Thunder Hammer) are the ones that give me the most concern as they might spend turns not doing much of anything. Better to be generalists or total specialists... maybe I need to trim things down a bit...The perenial issue of boys vs. toys is even tougher at this small scale!

[azn.gamer]

Black Shields don't bother me b/c I can't imagine taking one without a Storm Shield, but Hvy TH concern me b/c they seem very situational and easily killed before they do anything.

[Qui-Gon]

Personally I'm in love with a Comms/Sniper combo with the sniper having stalker pattern boltgun. Able to hit anything in line of sight on 2s even if it is obscured? Yeah baby!
And at ap -1 it will make everyone a bit nervous.

[Black Knight]

Leaders should really be at the back but I really really want to use a Xenophase sometime, somewhere. Has anyone gone against shooting armies yet, do we last long enough to engage up close?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I am not taking any melee weapons that are unwieldy - they will be nigh useless when the model suffers its first flesh wound .

[Lemondish]

I am not taking any melee weapons that are unwieldy - they will be nigh useless when the model suffers its first flesh wound .

 

Keep in mind that marines ignore the penalty to hit for their first flesh wound. 

[Tonius]

Leaders should really be at the back but I really really want to use a Xenophase sometime, somewhere. Has anyone gone against shooting armies yet, do we last long enough to engage up close?

Against T’au, black shield and Heavy TH were pretty effective, Killing the Stealth guys.

But as he effectively spent some turns doing nothing, I’ll try to change the heavy TH vet with a boltgun/power sword one.

[Irbis]

Leaders should really be at the back but I really really want to use a Xenophase sometime, somewhere. Has anyone gone against shooting armies yet, do we last long enough to engage up close?

 

Funnily enough, after I thought a bit I came to conclusion you should load up on character types if at all possible, stat bonus is just too good. Just don't make any of them leaders

 

No, seriously, all sarges are better as something else to make use of specialist skills on actually good models. Most teams are better off picking cheapest possible (or most durable) model to have him hang around in safe spots. For DW, I'd take veteran sarge with xenophase as close combat specialist, reiver sarge with rifle and blade (pretty much the only worthwhile loadout for them) as general purpose guy, intercessor sarge with rifle (and maybe sword) to hang out at the back, blackshield to plug any holes in composition, then maybe a few gunners with infernus (to make use of mortal wounds strat) and combi-weapons as support. Hopefully, I'll try it over the weekend and see how good the idea is...

[Prot]

Can you take that many sarges?

 

It seems like an oversight because of mixing army lists with Astartes

 

One thing I’m looking at is Combi weapons, likely plas, on my Sarge. I just think it’s a lot of dakka for such a small game.

 

I’m definitely thinking of grenade launchers on an Intercessor.

 

I am having my first games tonight for a league. So far I’ve made about 5 lists and don’t have a clue. I keep flipping between Primaris, vets and going really vanilla for body count vs toys fir killin stuff!

[Irbis]

Can you take that many sarges?

 

It seems like an oversight because of mixing army lists with Astartes

 

Yes, one per squad.

 

And I fail to see how this is oversight when SM (and a lot of other teams) can do that just fine on their own, no mixing needed. They just have less incentive to do so since they aren't saddled with irremovable, often useless, expensive gear (that DW sarges can trade for something else thankfully...).

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Can you take that many sarges?

 

It seems like an oversight because of mixing army lists with Astartes

 

One thing I’m looking at is Combi weapons, likely plas, on my Sarge. I just think it’s a lot of dakka for such a small game.

 

I’m definitely thinking of grenade launchers on an Intercessor.

 

I am having my first games tonight for a league. So far I’ve made about 5 lists and don’t have a clue. I keep flipping between Primaris, vets and going really vanilla for body count vs toys fir killin stuff!

 

Can the Primaris Intercessor Sergeant take an auxiliary grenade launcher ?

[MadEdric]

 

Can you take that many sarges?

 

It seems like an oversight because of mixing army lists with Astartes

 

One thing I’m looking at is Combi weapons, likely plas, on my Sarge. I just think it’s a lot of dakka for such a small game.

 

I’m definitely thinking of grenade launchers on an Intercessor.

 

I am having my first games tonight for a league. So far I’ve made about 5 lists and don’t have a clue. I keep flipping between Primaris, vets and going really vanilla for body count vs toys fir killin stuff!

 

Can the Primaris Intercessor Sergeant take an auxiliary grenade launcher ?

 

No, only an Intercessor gunner can take one.

[Black Knight]

I think if you find your self taking a normal vet with a CC and Bolter it would just be better just to take an Intercessor Sgt. Apart from that Vets have the options.

[MadEdric]

So had my first game with my DW team yesterday.

       Vet Sgt Leader w/ power sword, stalker pattern bolter

       Blackshield Zealot w/ power sword, storm shield

       Reiver Sgt Combat w/ heavy bolt pistol, combat blade, grapnel launcher

       Vet Gunner Heavy w/ Frag cannon

       Vet w/ power sword, bolter

Faced Tau with 3 stealth suits, some ion guns, a rail rifle, couple others probably 10 models in total.

Lost the frag cannon first round, but it took almost all the Tau firepower to take him down.

Game ended with 2 stealth suits left and I also lost the vet sgt.

While just one game (which was just a kill each other type game, as we learn the rules), it was fun and I was amazed how resilient a 3+ armor save can be in this game.

My Black shield endured I think 3 rounds with the suits focused on him, and he ended up taking one out after a game of cat and mouse, finally getting the 12" charge he needed to catch him.

My lone bolter/power sword vet also took 2 rounds of sustained burst cannon fire and made every save (with a command reroll helping). 

Grapnel launcher on the reiver was a huge boon, making those charges up building and ignoring walls and barriers he could go over allowed him to make some nice charges.

SIA is great in this game, letting you pick the right tool at the right time. Kraken to increase the range to avoid long range penalties was key to taking out the non suit Tau. Totally forgot about dragonfire rounds against the obscured ones though.

All in all, I was glad to see that 5 models could take and dish out a lot of damage.

[Mr4Minutes]

I’m thinking about running that same black shield. But I’m split on dropping the storm shield for a bolter to save points, and also boost his damage output with some SIA.

 

Would you have rather had the bolter damage? Or was he so heavily targeted he needed the 3++?

[MadEdric]

I’m thinking about running that same black shield. But I’m split on dropping the storm shield for a bolter to save points, and also boost his damage output with some SIA.

 

Would you have rather had the bolter damage? Or was he so heavily targeted he needed the 3++?

After the frag cannon gunner went down, he was facing the mostly burst cannons, but also a fusion gun. I know the invul save was needed at least twice (with one command reroll). 

We'll be starting a campaign soon, so I'll be getting much better testing on what works.

[azn.gamer]

 

I’m thinking about running that same black shield. But I’m split on dropping the storm shield for a bolter to save points, and also boost his damage output with some SIA.

 

Would you have rather had the bolter damage? Or was he so heavily targeted he needed the 3++?

After the frag cannon gunner went down, he was facing the mostly burst cannons, but also a fusion gun. I know the invul save was needed at least twice (with one command reroll). 

We'll be starting a campaign soon, so I'll be getting much better testing on what works.

 

I can't imagine a BS NOT being focused - if he makes it into melee he's a wrecking ball for most armies to deal with.