Adeptus Mechanicus & the Houses of Necromunda

[Quantum]

Hi all,

 

I recently read the new lore on Necromunda, and how the Clan Houses produce most of what is used on the planet and even transported throughout the sector. Each house has its specialties, with Van Saar producing hi-tech equipment & weaponry, Orlock making blunt but effective & reliable autoweapons, Escher with their (bio)chemical products and even Crawdor being able to produce or recycle crude weapons & bionics.

 

Now all these houses manufacture according to their own resources and doctrines, but it still involves technology, which formally puts them under the authority and scrutiny of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Now I was wondering what the role is of the AdMech in the Houses' production, and what the relationship is between the houses and the tech-priests.

 

Do the Tech-priest maintain a role of overseers, instructing the workers in proper tech-rites/manufacuring procedures and checking product quality? If so, how can Cawdor get away with procuding such shoddy products? Surely the tech-priest would intervene and raise the production standards?

 

Do the Tech-Priests supply the know-how/STC-templates of the items to be produced? Then how can some houses have acces to certain technology while others do not? And wouldn't the tech-priests prevent a house from customizing their products to be more in-line with a house's doctrines and preferred esthetics, not to mention outright innovation?

 

And how exactly does Van Saar avoid the tech-priests' scrutiny on where exactly they got those STC templates on hi-tech weaponry? Surely the mere hint of STC output would be enough for the AdMech to deploy hordes of tech-priests to find the source (not to mention legions of Skitarii to dissuade any opposition)?   

[Quantum]

Oh dear, so far not a single response. Clearly the brilliance of my question has rendered my Fraters mute. That, or my utter stupidity has rendered them dumbstruck... I'll just pretend it is the former.

[Clingy]

I saw it and it piqued my curiosity but I have no answer for you chum

[Battybattybats]

Necromunda's hives predate the Imperium and are sources of Archaeotech. As a recruitment world for the Astartes (multiple chapters, particularly the Imperial Fists), large Astra Militarum regiment recruitment as well as crucial supply of munitions and tanks lets the ruling houses get away with a lot. (like regular tech-heresy like xenos-built Spyrer hunting rigs).

 

That's from 1st ed lore though, I've not read the new edition yet.

[Perry]

 

And how exactly does Van Saar avoid the tech-priests' scrutiny on where exactly they got those STC templates on hi-tech weaponry? Surely the mere hint of STC output would be enough for the AdMech to deploy hordes of tech-priests to find the source (not to mention legions of Skitarii to dissuade any opposition)?

Perhaps their technology is a known STC, but judged to be uneconomic for massed production. Van Saar might have the license for small scale production and distribution.

[Battybattybats]

Isn't it new lore that Van Saar have an intact but malfunctioning STC system, not a mere printout but an actual STC design system? Holy Grail of the Mechanicus! The malfunctioning making things not so good for Van Saar health and longevity?

 

This would of course have to be kept a big secret. When the Mechanicus eventually learn of this (or even a vague rumour of it) there will be a huge Mechanicus invasion and either Helmawr will just have to let them go in and take what they want or he'll have to pull every string he can to have the Astartes, Rogue Traders et al hold that back.

 

But so far we've seen the ruling house of Necromunda getting away with not just xenotech heresy, they also managed to avoid Exterminatus for the huge Genestealer Cult Infestation (they just had the Imperial Fists do a purge, blew up Hive Secondus and built a big wall around it, Escape From New York style, which has slowed the infestation spreading to the Primus hive but not stopped it).

[walter h]

Perhaps there is a fear that the Mechanicus,would be destroyed in an all out assault on Necromunda. The priest may know more than we know.

[Tiger9gamer]

Isn't it new lore that Van Saar have an intact but malfunctioning STC system, not a mere printout but an actual STC design system? Holy Grail of the Mechanicus! The malfunctioning making things not so good for Van Saar health and longevity?

This would of course have to be kept a big secret. When the Mechanicus eventually learn of this (or even a vague rumour of it) there will be a huge Mechanicus invasion and either Helmawr will just have to let them go in and take what they want or he'll have to pull every string he can to have the Astartes, Rogue Traders et al hold that back.

But so far we've seen the ruling house of Necromunda getting away with not just xenotech heresy, they also managed to avoid Exterminatus for the huge Genestealer Cult Infestation (they just had the Imperial Fists do a purge, blew up Hive Secondus and built a big wall around it, Escape From New York style, which has slowed the infestation spreading to the Primus hive but not stopped it).

Thank you! Bloody hell every time I think of the newcromunda lore that's all that I can think of. The merest hint, merest whisper of an stc so close to terra would have an explorator fleet in system within a day methinks. Kinda wanna see this evolve later, with a mechanicus 'gang' versus the rest of necromunda as kill teams explore the underhive looking for the stc. Heck, maybe as a 'death of van saar' supplement. I wanna see the houses fight legions of rust stalkers and robots and such. It would probably be stopped of course, but it would still be fixing a major plot hole!

[Quantum]

Isn't it new lore that Van Saar have an intact but malfunctioning STC system, not a mere printout but an actual STC design system? Holy Grail of the Mechanicus! The malfunctioning making things not so good for Van Saar health and longevity?

 

This would of course have to be kept a big secret. When the Mechanicus eventually learn of this (or even a vague rumour of it) there will be a huge Mechanicus invasion and either Helmawr will just have to let them go in and take what they want or he'll have to pull every string he can to have the Astartes, Rogue Traders et al hold that back.

 

But so far we've seen the ruling house of Necromunda getting away with not just xenotech heresy, they also managed to avoid Exterminatus for the huge Genestealer Cult Infestation (they just had the Imperial Fists do a purge, blew up Hive Secondus and built a big wall around it, Escape From New York style, which has slowed the infestation spreading to the Primus hive but not stopped it).

 

You have a point there about a lot of things happening on Necromunda that should not be tolerated by the Imperium, but somehow still does.

 

So far we have:

- a genestealer infestation that is only (barely) contained and not eradicated. Surely this should be of considerable interest to the Ordo Xenos.

- a ruling house that is deeply involved in the trade of a narcotic that awakens psychic abilities. No doubt the Ordo Hereticus would stop at nothing to find the source of these drugs.

- STC level technology somehow being readily available to a house without direct AdMech involvement.

 

The only thing conclusion I can draw from this is that, despite all the background material about inquisitors unearthing heretics and cults and declaring exterminatus, or the AdMech launching entire explorator fleets to track down snippets of STC data, the various imperial authorities have actually very little presence on many imperial worlds. Perhaps the AdMech's presence on Necromunda is so negligible that Van Saar doesn't even need to be that cautious with their tech.

[Xisor]

Factions and schisms.

 

One would assume that some faction within the Adeptus Mechanicus, such as the Ad Mech 'ruling'/presiding over Necromunda, are holding the planet hostage, perhaps? The consequences to the orthodoxy of Mars is upsetting the Inquisition (let's say: a radical/Xenarite-y sect wore carefully monitoring a "contained" Genestealer infestation long term, or perhaps it's a lot less contained and is in fact positioned to hold sway over Necromunda and ensure its continued Independence?), and the Imperial Fists, thus causing increased friction between Mars and Terra?

 

It's an endless chain of intricate balances. Upsetting the output of Necromunda might get you an STC, but in the meantime the cost of acquiring the STC ensures you won't be around to study it. Or on cost:benefits or risk:reward, you can gain more printouts slowly than risk your rival getting a whole system.

 

The Machine Cult is very... feudal. The rule of the Fabricator General is, I think, not very domineering.

 

The same goes for all other institutions of the Imperium too. It's likely not static, but it is an evolving, interesting temporary point of stability. ... but maybe not that stable.

[Battybattybats]

Unless retconned the inquisition was responsible for finding the Genestealer infestation of Hive Secondus in the first place, and directing the Fists to cleanse it.

 

I agree that the byzantine and autocratic nature of imperial may explain a lot of things. The importance and power of this world in particular may be a big factor.

 

With Van Saar, so long as it's only new patterns of existing imperial tech seen by outsiders an STC wouldn't necessarily be suspected. As a known source of Archaotech some small amounts of unknown tech would be assumed to be ancient relics.

 

But there should be archaeotech expeditions into the depths of the hive periodically, and Mechanicus personnel above the wall. Van Saar would have to be actively hiding what they have.

 

There was a fan made explorator team/gang for the previous version of Necromunda, it'd be good to see an official one.

[Tiger9gamer]

Unless retconned the inquisition was responsible for finding the Genestealer infestation of Hive Secondus in the first place, and directing the Fists to cleanse it.

 

I agree that the byzantine and autocratic nature of imperial may explain a lot of things. The importance and power of this world in particular may be a big factor.

 

With Van Saar, so long as it's only new patterns of existing imperial tech seen by outsiders an STC wouldn't necessarily be suspected. As a known source of Archaotech some small amounts of unknown tech would be assumed to be ancient relics.

 

But there should be archaeotech expeditions into the depths of the hive periodically, and Mechanicus personnel above the wall. Van Saar would have to be actively hiding what they have.

 

There was a fan made explorator team/gang for the previous version of Necromunda, it'd be good to see an official one.

well from what I heard one could use the venator for a high class explorator group, so I bet that would be a good place to start for a custom one, and could be fun to think about, but outside of that I probably don't think it would happen personally.

 

but going off the pre-existing tech idea I am curious to know if those energy shields are widely used in the imperium.....

[Xisor]

Back on Warseer, in the day, there was discussion anout the meta view of the Mechanicus.

 

That is: Me-CAN-icus or Me-CAN'T-icus.

 

A lot of the 'why don't they...' questions are wrapped up in the combination of the author, text, and readers' take on whether any given individual, group, or organisation of the Adeptus Mechanicus actually know what they're doing or not.

 

Both politically, psychologically, socially, and of xourse:technically. (Engineering and science.)

 

Is the Machine Cult a facade to maintain and isolate power, but they *do* understand how things work, how to research etc, they're just more preoccupied with POWER.

 

Or is it the case that the institution is run-away, that dogma and superstition and ignorance overwhelm every other aspect.

 

So someone might find a work STC, but because it's UI is set to, say, ancient Colchisian script and dialects, it's immediately identified as abominable techno-heresy and obliterated, etc.

 

More, it's entirely possible to have similar variations of interpretations at all levels of the same individual characters, let alone the story, their life, their organisation and factions.

 

It doesn't really clear things up, but reinforce how deeply muddied the waters can be.

 

It's something both "The Voice of Mars" and "Imperator" have touched on in interesting ways, recently.

 

How easily we forget that the idea in our head is but the tiniest tip of the iceberg!

[Lord_Caerolion]

In regards to Cawdor, it's because they're not a weapons manufacturer, they're waste management.

For the wider question about the Mechanicus in Necromunda, my interpretation is that what tends to be glossed over is that the Tech-Priests are just that, the priests of the Mechanicus. They oversee things, but the vast bulk of the organisation are lay-members. They're capable of rote manufacturing and repair, but understand nothing of the underlying physics or details as to why those actions or configurations work. They might be able to understand the basics of how a gun works, but not the chemical composition of gunpowder, or the chemistry of why gunpowder reacts the way it does, or the concept of the electrical charge from a power-pack allowing a lasgun to fire.

 

 

Necromunda may have a Mechanicus representative, but by-and-large, the manufacturing capabilities are overseen by these lay-members whose ties are closer to their House than to their Cult. The Van Saar may have a malfunctioning STC, but they sure as hell aren't allowing anyone near it that doesn't have absolute loyalty to the House first and foremost. What we see as Techpriests are all relatively high up within the Cult hierarchy, and the Houses would work to keep their postings largely political in nature, rather than having them bless every conveyor belt and piston.

Plus, lets not also forget, the Van Saar export their STC-granted tech. The Tech-Priests have full access to these. They just don't have access to the original STC, but as far as they know, it's just gear being produced by an ancient Hive, in manufactorums that date back millennia. House Van Saar probably just tossed them a few partial blueprints that they use to speed up production, and let the Mechanicus obsess over that.

 

The Inquisition also stands back because they understand the importance of the manufacturing capability of Necromunda. There are countless worlds being held only because of the shipments of weapons and munitions they receive from Necromunda. For every firebrand Monodominant Inquisitor screaming to purge the world with fire, there's probably a dozen Amalathians working to stop him from doing so, as well as probably a few Istvaanians not wanting to sabotage the war effort. Same goes for the Spook production. A combination of the lethargy of the Imperial bureaucracy, alongside the many greased palms and underworld contacts, would ensure that not too many people are looking too closely into the business dealings of House Helmawr, and those that do are persuaded of the importance of keeping things as they are. You don't want to risk removing the Imperial Governor, creating a full-blown civil war between the other Houses, which would obviously have major knock-on impacts onto the arms exports.

[Ryltar Thamior]

I seem to recall mention in the run-up to the Van Saar release of the nihilis pattern lasgun being issued to Guard regiments, presumably through the Departmento Munitorum (given the serial numbers and timeframe involved, there is a non-zero chance of this having involved literally billions of lasguns, over a five thousand year period). 

Now, leaving aside for the moment the uh .. "defects" in their manufacture which lead to the recall [part of which , i would have thought , would have been the "meant for personal use" perhaps meaning they were gene-locked to Van Saar operators; but which also, interestingly, included their being "above average" in terms of combat efficacy; along with the expected radiation poisoning...], it would be difficult indeed for such a broad-spanning distribution of arms to have taken place, and particularly through the aforementioned channels, *without* at least some degree of oversight from Imperial/Mechanicus authorities. 

I suppose it is posssible that the Van Saar either have some kind of 'laity-initiate' license , whereby they are either actually or presumed to have had some degree of permission given for limited manufacture within defined parameters with some [in-House] tech-priests standing by somewhere, and performing a modicum of rites at the final stage o the process. Said priests may very much be "in-House" , and come from the ranks of the Van Saar in a manner not entirely dissimilar to Space Marine tech-marines, rather than owing prime loyalty to the general Mechanicus. 

Alternatively, given the fact that the Van Saar have evidently been providing a pretty substantial array of equipment to the Guard for at least half the Imperium's span of existence by now, perhaps it is simply one of those things whereby it's been going on for so long htat nobody's actaully thought to check whether they're allowed to do it.

Five to seven thousand years is a .. long time, and clerical messed ups contributing to a lack of proper oversight are certainly de rigeur in the Imperium. 

Having said all that, we know that the production and broad distribution of the Necromunda Pattern lasgun prsumably *also* means that there's a reasonably sized Mechanicus presence on the planet (or in its immediate vicinity, at any rate). So who knows how tight an oversight is actually exercised in practice.

Meanwhile, in terms of precedence for ... what happened to Hive Secundus - the various things in the Equatorial Jungles of Armageddon are perhaps somewaht comparable. Insofar as you have massive Chaotic monoliths left over from the First War, and ongoing Feral Ork infestation , only kept down through significant expenditures of manpower - yet the planet was not subjected to Exterminatus the first time around; nor even to massive localized defoliation or something following hte most recnet conflict in the aforementioned area. 

Although this is likely due to Armageddon's massive manufacturing capacity, and I am unsure what fraction of that Necromunda also possesses. 

[Lord_Caerolion]

But that's the thing, a Van Saar lasgun is a Necromunda-pattern lasgun, same as the Escher lasguns, or the Delaque, etc. When it comes to Hive Worlds (at least on Necromunda, but there's no reason to assume it's an exception), the manufacturing is controlled by the Houses, rather than some monolithic "Mechanicus Factory". It's like how the Catholic population isn't entirely comprised of priests, bishops and cardinals, etc, but rather just people who go to church every so often. The Houses have been granted their ability to manufacture goods. They might have a tech-priest in on holy days to bless the forges, etc. The Imperium is too large, and the Adeptus Mechanicus too independent, both sides too paranoid, to have every bit of the manufacturing process carried out and overseen by the actual Mechanicus. That's what happens on Forge Worlds only. On Hive Worlds the Mechanicus definitely has an important presence, but the vast majority of the work would be carried out by these independent, Imperial, workers operating with Mechanicus approval and occasional guidance.

 

The 40k rpgs actually made a good distinction in this, in that they had two separate Skills relating to technology. They had Tech-Use, which was more the Mechanicus version, which involves actual knowledge and understanding of why things work, and a Trade skill, Technomat, which is what we're discussing here. Ability in Technomat means that the character can operate and kinda repair tech, but they have no underlying concept of how it works as it does, relying only on rote learning, basically the bad portrayal of the Mechanicus, that only knows to operate the machinery as "and lo, intone the Litany of Activation thrice while anointing the Sacred Machine with holy oils, and then depress the Rune of Awakening."

Outside of the Forge Worlds, this is how the manufacturing is done. The Mechanicus might help maintain the infrastructure itself, but other than that, production is done and controlled by the Imperium and its citizens.

[Ryltar Thamior]

But that's the thing, a Van Saar lasgun is a Necromunda-pattern lasgun, same as the Escher lasguns, or the Delaque, etc. When it comes to Hive Worlds (at least on Necromunda, but there's no reason to assume it's an exception), the manufacturing is controlled by the Houses, rather than some monolithic "Mechanicus Factory". It's like how the Catholic population isn't entirely comprised of priests, bishops and cardinals, etc, but rather just people who go to church every so often. The Houses have been granted their ability to manufacture goods. They might have a tech-priest in on holy days to bless the forges, etc. The Imperium is too large, and the Adeptus Mechanicus too independent, both sides too paranoid, to have every bit of the manufacturing process carried out and overseen by the actual Mechanicus. That's what happens on Forge Worlds only. On Hive Worlds the Mechanicus definitely has an important presence, but the vast majority of the work would be carried out by these independent, Imperial, workers operating with Mechanicus approval and occasional guidance.

 

 

At least according to Lexicanum, this is not the case - the Nihilis pattern and Necromunda pattern lasguns being the same thing, I mean. It is possible that this is a case of Fluff Marches On; as the citation given for the Necromunda pattern lasgun is the old Inquisitor rulebook. But as it stands, they are two different patterns of weapon, with identifiably different characteristics to them. 

 

Although there is, of course, no reason why the Necromunda pattern lasgun could not be manufactured by one or more of the Great Houses.

[Battybattybats]

Speaking of the example of Armageddon, in the Shadow War Armageddon background on the vital promethium system of the hive that game takes place in (Acheron?) there's the Dauber gangs, the descendants of maintenance workers repainting structures and painting markings who now use paint to mark their turf in a ritualized remnant of their ancestors role.

 

This shows that a Hive doesn't work the same way as a lot of the rest of the imperium.

[Magos Takatus]

there's the Dauber gangs, the descendants of maintenance workers repainting structures and painting markings who now use paint to mark their turf in a ritualized remnant of their ancestors role.

Hilariously, this reminds me of that Splatoon game. In the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, there is only colourful ink-based turf wars.

[Xisor]

 

But that's the thing, a Van Saar lasgun is a Necromunda-pattern lasgun, same as the Escher lasguns, or the Delaque, etc. When it comes to Hive Worlds (at least on Necromunda, but there's no reason to assume it's an exception), the manufacturing is controlled by the Houses, rather than some monolithic "Mechanicus Factory". It's like how the Catholic population isn't entirely comprised of priests, bishops and cardinals, etc, but rather just people who go to church every so often. The Houses have been granted their ability to manufacture goods. They might have a tech-priest in on holy days to bless the forges, etc. The Imperium is too large, and the Adeptus Mechanicus too independent, both sides too paranoid, to have every bit of the manufacturing process carried out and overseen by the actual Mechanicus. That's what happens on Forge Worlds only. On Hive Worlds the Mechanicus definitely has an important presence, but the vast majority of the work would be carried out by these independent, Imperial, workers operating with Mechanicus approval and occasional guidance.

 

At least according to Lexicanum, this is not the case - the Nihilis pattern and Necromunda pattern lasguns being the same thing, I mean. It is possible that this is a case of Fluff Marches On; as the citation given for the Necromunda pattern lasgun is the old Inquisitor rulebook. But as it stands, they are two different patterns of weapon, with identifiably different characteristics to them. 

Although there is, of course, no reason why the Necromunda pattern lasgun could not be manufactured by one or more of the Great Houses.

I was thinking along the same lines. But, strictly, it's a semantic detail that Caerolion's argument could absorb: on Necromunda, several patterns of "branded" lasguns are manufactured. Some adhere strictly to the Necromunda-pattern template, several go off-piste and make bob-functional, non-technical aesthetic adjustments, whilst other patterns are constructed to similar, but technically distinct specifications, for example the Nihilis-pattern.

 

If both are sanctioned, both may be "Necromunda pattern lasguns", whilst one is the nominal Necromunda-pattern, whilst the other is Nihilis-pattern, both made on Necromunda.

 

Theoretically, and to illustrate further, a forge of Ryza may wish to print to the Necromunda-pattern, and might do so. It'd be an off-world 'knock off', possibly in breach of 'intellectual property' laws and religious mandated, but that's not really specified.

 

But in Necromunda, you'd be operating as a technomat, and idle fiddling with a design may highlight or cause people to suspect tech-heresy.

 

But if you've sought indulgences from the local Mechanicus to get dispensation to fiddle, or had it church-approved, or some other means of going from 'off-piste heresy' to 'questionable and dodgy, but Technically okay', then you'll at least have the authority of *someone* in the church patronising the house and protecting the interest.

 

I suppose it begs further scrutiny: what, precisely, is the actual history of the Nihilis-pattern? Are even the aesthetic lasgun styles religiously mandated, heavily gatekeepered, and jealously guarded. (E.g. house Escher expended a lot of resources to acquire unique rights to an in-demand style?)

 

Not just pedantically, but I can vaguely sense a five-novel epic on the topic...

[Lord_Caerolion]

Given how hide-bound some of the Mechanicus are, I guarantee some would definitely throw a tantrum over the most minor of aesthetic changes. "The stock has a length of 28.455557cm, rather than the mandated 28.46cm! Incinerate the hereteks for their apostasy!" A Magos would definitely be able to make changes, even if he'd have to explain why, but a sanctioned House like House Escher with their more elegant designs? In my interpretation, that'd definitely be as a 'reward' for their other production and work, being allowed to have some minor changes to the design made, and subsequently approved by the Mechanicus, to produce the Necromunda-pattern lasgun (Escher-issue).

 

Actually, thinking about it more, could it be that the "default" version of the Necromunda pattern is made by Houses such as Goliath, who otherwise don't care enough to petition for alterations to the basic design? Houses such as Escher and Van Saar, that use it themselves and would be more interested in putting their own 'stamp' on it, have petitioned for their own changes, while others are happy to just churn out the standard-issue Necromunda pattern.

 

The other option, of course, is that the weapons produced by all Houses are indeed the plain-old Necromunda, but the weapons we see used by the gangs are those that are kept for personal use, and modified by in-house technomats to make them "better" and more to their own liking. That would certainly get around the issues of the Van Saar having their own STC, in that the items produced for export are basically identical to those produced by other Houses except for the makers marks, but for the gear they use themselves, they break out the good stuff. 

[Ryltar Thamior]

it also occurs that given what we now know about the Cawdor - they may perhaps get a bit around the tech-priest issue through i) the 'reclamation of scrap' approach [i.e. a lot of their 'manufacture' isn't , per se , manufacture - although dependent upon how hidebound a techpriest is, the elements involved in making something that's almost-functional work again may very well infringe heavily into mechanicus territory ... or it may not - I mean, cleaning out a jam in an autorifle *does* possibly require sacred unguents and a litany, but I highly doubt that every ordinary Guardsman eqiupped iwth one is expected to get the local Enginseer to handle such relatively mundane tasks - and instead would do it themselves, *using* said lubricants and litany, as htey've been indoctrinated to do so .. it's also possible that certain 'field modifications' may fall into this category likewise] ; 

ii) their particular understanding of the Imperial Cult - I mean, the way they see it, it's not implausible that the acts required to build those really-not-guardian-spears out of a sharp pointy bit , a pole , and whatever ballistic weapon they can lay their hands not-upon, as it is done in conscious imitation of the Divinely Mandated Form of the Weapons of the Emperor's Angels/Saints [i.e. the Custodes], as done by His Locally Appointed Servents [i.e. whichever Cawdor get charged with doing such things] - well, they might not see why this requires a tech-priest. Particularly given , as the Omissiah is the Emperor , it's merely 'another' form of Imperial Clergy, potentially unlikely to be found in any great concentration down amidst the scrap-heaps of hte Underhive unless something .. odd is afoot.

Certainly, it is an interestingly observed tendency for the religiously fanatical to 'give themselves permission' to 'bend' or even outright flaunt otherwise iron-clad rules as and as needs fit. 

Now, i am not claiming that any of the above is, strictly speaking, background accurate. And of course, there are very solid arguments that the second point, in particular, is *wrong* in terms of Imperial Theology. 

But unless we are seriously believing that there is a mendicant order of tech-priests out there going from hab-hold to hab-hold wrapping together autoguns and crowbars to form crudely larptastic "Guardian Spears" ... which, given 40k ... there actually very well *might be* ... it is a not *entirely* implausible explanation.

Although I now have an idea for , as somebody might have mentioned upthread , long-forgotten perhaps even low-key voluntary-exiled tech-priest orders cut off for whatever reason from commune with Mars continuing to do as they've done for centuries beforehand and producing material output which, if inspected by a 'legit' tech-priest somewehre, somewhen else, will not *especially* raise any serious eyebrows about heretek or unwarranted "innovation" by the non-schooled and un-learned filthy-handed ordinary Imperials. 

 

[Lord_Caerolion]

To be honest, I think it's a combination of both explanations for Cawdor. They don't have a mandate for manufacturing, they have a mandate for recycling and recovery of materials in the Hive, so the Mechanicus probably aren't checking any production facilities they may have, and in the case of the not-Guardian Spears, as big a fuss as a Tech-Priest might want to cause over it, there's probably a Ministorum priest willing to push back just as hard to allow some poor devout souls to imitate some of the most holy figures in the Imperium.

There probably isn't a Tech-Priest order assisting them, given the vague animosity between the Martian and Terran differences of opinion on the Emperor. While the Cult Mechanicus would most likely revere the Custodes as the Imperials do, the Mechanicus revere them for what they represent, and the genius involved in both their creation and that of their wargear. Given this, I can't imagine the Tech-Priests would look favourably on poor imitations of the holy wargear of the Custodes. To them, it's not just the concept that's holy, it's the science and mathematics behind its design, the geometric formulas intrinsically built in to the placement of the wiring and every facet of construction. To associate something as lowly as a rusted-out autogun on a bladed stick to such an epitome of design would be a massive insult to many tech-priests, in my mind. Cawdor is more likely supplied by experienced technomats, who have been "in the business" long enough that they're capable of improvising and jury-rigging items. 

 

I have always loved the idea of the more insane members of the Cult Mechanicus, like the ones that John Blanch loves featuring in his White Dwarf sections. I really need to finish off my weird Dr. Frankenstein-esque Tech-Priest for my Inquisitor warband (the Thanofactor Prime, an ancient, insane priest living in the bottom of a Hive, who "repurposes" uncollected bodies into Servitors for exchange to the forges).

[Kinstryfe]

I think that besides the layers upon layers of philosophy and dogma, there are probably also layers upon layers of tech alterations that are allowed or sacred. We already know that there are a whole bunch of different lasgun designs out there that are fully sanctioned as approved designs, and we also know that a large role of the STCs was to allow creating things with what was available on the colonized planet. As a result, I would imagine for something like a lasgun there are a wide range of approved changes and combinations that would be allowed without a ton of blowback. I imagine it something like

 

1) Cosmetic alterations only. STC approved internals but an alteration in frame to allow for specific conditions. The people of Frackus V are inordinately tall due to low gravity, so the body is extended to account for longer limbs. Rotundus II is extremely high gravity so the casing is made of a lower weight material and excess panels are removed. These are probably ok as they are not technical solutions as much as mundane solutions.

2) Functional alterations present in other STC lasgun designs. Scout and drop regiments sometimes use an STC pattern with a folding stock for easy transport. House Foldus decides to incorporate this into a production model, and can cite it's existence in another STC lasgun as reason for it being ok. These are probably ok as everything involved is STC lasgun tech unless dealing with the strictest adherant.

3) Functional alterations present in other, similar STC tech. A pattern of lasgun which for some reason incorporates a firing mechanism found on an STC for a meltagun. All parts are STC design, but not as a whole. I believe several tanks are examples of this. The Razorback? Possibly ok, pending review by the Mechanicus.

4) Functional alterations present in STC unrelated to the product being manufactured. After a stroke of genius it is decided that the quick release mechanism on a grav harness can be repurposed as a quick connect mechanism on an underslung grenade launcher to attach to a new pattern of lasgun. It is possible this could eventually be sanctioned, as technically everything is STC, but is unlikely. Execution for tech heresy likely.

5) Any new innovation. Tech Heresy. Execution imminent.

 

Of course, this all assumes proper Mechanicus oversight. For things like personal use on-world, I'd imagine you could get away with a whole lot.

[Battybattybats]

With all the vital technological systems in a Hive and with Necromunda known to have hive wuakes and collapses etc it's also likely that the Mechanicus are fighting a desperate slowly ground-losing battle trying to keep life even possible. Possibly leading to a lot slipping by or forced compromises.

 

The religious aspect of Cawdor is an important one, the impact of the Redemptionists would be significant in many aspects of Necromundas power structures.