Ollanius Pius

[Knockagh]

This guy was, I think, one of the most interesting characters to emerge from the HH series. I still hope he has a, not insignificant, part of play in the series finale.

I’m a little behind in my heresy reading, just passing the crimson king. Has he appeared again after that? My last memory of him was the audio drama Perpetual.

 

I’m not overly worried about spoilers!

[Lord Marshal]

I feel like Ollanius was wasted potential and I hate that they turned him into a Perpetual. It really takes away from his pre-HH legacy as the normal, everyday human who stood up to Horus. Now he's just another special snowflake.

 

More than that though, he could've served as a major POV character for the Imperial Army of whom I feel we've been lacking (outside of Tallarn).

[Morovir]

I can't recall exactly, but is it ever stated that Ollanius can actually come back after being killed, or simply that if not killed, he would live forever?

 

Old Earth establishes that there are differing levels of perpetuals, with some who are simply long-lived, but cannot come back from being killed.

[Mellow]

Going by old lore I’m presuming that he was able to resurrect because Horus killed him completely with no re-roll. Which in turn annoyed the Emperor because presumably He would notice the passing of an old soul.

 

Whether that all changes in the new books or not is anyone’s guess.

[ZebraM]

Going by old lore I’m presuming that he was able to resurrect because Horus killed him completely with no re-roll. Which in turn annoyed the Emperor because presumably He would notice the passing of an old soul.

 

Whether that all changes in the new books or not is anyone’s guess.

Or the Emperor sees Horus strike down Ollanius, who the Emperor can recognise as a fellow perpetual, and finally sees just how far Horus has gone down the path of Chaos.

[Sabadin]

 

Or the Emperor sees Horus strike down Ollanius, who the Emperor can recognise as a fellow perpetual, and finally sees just how far Horus has gone down the path of Chaos.

Another possibility is seeing Horus strike down a fellow perpetual forces the Emperor to finally accept that Horus is actually a genuine threat to his entire existence, not just his mortal shell, and then the gloves come off.

[Knockagh]

He certainly knows s great deal about the emperor and his background. The emperor wishing to dispose of him would fit well with this.

I think the character has, to date, been rather wasted. But given the very small details we know so far it’s hard to see a way into the main story arc for him.

I like that he is a perpetual and he hints at some connection to the emperor. I’m pretty sure he is a regenerator, it states he has lived many lives somewhere I’m pretty sure.

[Mellow]

Plus y’know. Old Oll was older than Him anyway so he’s like “noooo old man! ... right that’s it Horus our friendship is over!”

[Lord Marshal]

The problem with the Emperor connection, the 'he struck down a fellow Perpetual' stuff, is that it I feel it really takes away from what Pius originally stood for. It took his death to convince the Emperor because he wasn't some glorious shining Marine or Custode, not a super human, just an everyday, normal, simple human who really represented what the Great Crusade fought for. And Horus swatted him out of existence without a thought, completely beneath him. That is what made the Emperor realise Horus was too far gone and essentially inhuman. It's a somewhat odd but distinct moment that makes a good amount of sense. It also fits nicely into him being the patron saint of the Imperial Guard.

 

I much prefer that to more "Oh no, his power level is over 9000 if he can kill a Perpetual'!" 

[Lucien Eilam]

The Emperor's actions must have resulted in trillions of ordinary humans being swatted out of existence without a thought. He's exterminated entire planets by the system-load in absolutely horrific ways to reach his goal. Why would one more persuade him of anything?

 

The final shootout will presumably see Pius present, and then dead, but I doubt the reality will look much like any variant of the myth they've previously written about.

[ZebraM]

I always took the whole "a regular marine called Ollanius Pius came out of nowhere and his death inspired the emepror to kill horus" was obviously some Imperial propaganda to make the Emepror seem more righteous to the common man

[b1soul]

@Lord Marshal

 

The Emp doesn't care about individuals, only the species. I fail to see how one more human being killed should be a pivotal moment for the Emp...doesn't make much sense.

 

If anything, the Emp is utterly disconnected from the suffering of common humanity. It should take the death of a "special" character to stir the Emperor.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

IMO this post on the 40klore subreddit largely summarizes my thoughts on him. tl;dr him being who he is, morally and spiritually, combined with being a Perpetual makes him far more a common man than the alternative.

[Lord Marshal]

@Lord Marshal

 

The Emp doesn't care about individuals, only the species. I fail to see how one more human being killed should be a pivotal moment for the Emp...doesn't make much sense.

 

If anything, the Emp is utterly disconnected from the suffering of common humanity. It should take the death of a "special" character to stir the Emperor.

 

I disagree and I figured this point would get brought up. The Emperor may well have become disconnected from humanity, but it takes a mere mortal like Pius to be killed without the slightest thought before his own eyes to really make it 'click' in the Emperor's head. He may not have given a damn about Pius, but it was just the final turn of the wheel in the Emperor's head to make him go "Ah-ha", he really had to see with his own eyes - face to face - just how far Horus had fallen. Seeing things with your own eyes has a completely different impact and for all the Emperor has disconnected and hardened himself, it can often be rather remarkable just how seeing things in person can shift things. Again, he wasn't going to mourn for Pious but it was just the little 'nudge' he needed. It's not the Emperor seeing another human man die, it's seeing his favourite Son who he deluded himself on some level could perhaps be saved reinforcing how far gone he is.

 

Horus annihilating an actual threat to him just robs that of any real weight of both the act. If it's a Terminator or Custode, then it seems even more odd that the Emperor would give a damn.

 

If it was the death of a "special" character stirring him then surely it would just be Sangy, which defeats the whole point of Pius/Fist/Custode anyway?

[Knockagh]

If we believe Malcador the primarchs were never meant to survive, they were supposed to kill each other. So Sangys death shouldn’t be a total disappointment for the big E. Although at that stage I’m sure he realises how badly his plan has gone. I would think that would annoy him more than anyone’s death.

[Carach]

If we believe Malcador the primarchs were never meant to survive, they were supposed to kill each other. So Sangys death shouldn’t be a total disappointment for the big E. Although at that stage I’m sure he realises how badly his plan has gone. I would think that would annoy him more than anyone’s death.

 

but if we also believe other parts of the HH literature, there was a facility for them to either grow up in and/or retire to. There were very long-term plans that had at least *some* of these primarchs as essential parts of them, many of them had skills going far beyond war-making, and in the very same piece of work you are taking from, there is also the statement that it was all a lie to make a person feel better.

 

soooo.....

[MrDarth151]

The Emperor's actions must have resulted in trillions of ordinary humans being swatted out of existence without a thought. He's exterminated entire planets by the system-load in absolutely horrific ways to reach his goal. Why would one more persuade him of anything?

 

I view The Emperor of Mankind as an utilitarian. So let me explain how an utilitarian would think.

 

To destroy a trillion lives for a goal worthy enough, and his is just such goal, is a righteous, morally good thing.

 

To destroy a single life just because it is there, with achieving nothing, at all, is to commit an act of true evil.

 

From that point of view, the act of murdering Ollanius is actually one of the greatest sins Horus commits, because it serves no purpose. Ollanius is not a threat to him, like Sanguinius. Ollanius is not a threat to his military efforts, like the other legions and forces of the loyalists. Ollanius is not even an innocent victim killed as an example to cow others into submission.

 

Ollanius Pius dies because he is in the same room as Horus. Death of Ollanius Pius is not special because of deep character relationship between him and the Emperor of Mankind. It is special because it shows the Emperor of Mankind the depths to which Horus has fallen, because there is no point to it.

 

Speaking solely from the perspective of morality: The meaning of Ollanius Pius' death cannot be overstated. It is, without a single doubt, under any and every interpretation of morality in which morality actually exists, an evil act. In that regard, it is something unique. And yes, I think that would matter to the Emperor of Mankind.

[b1soul]

@LordMarshal

 

The Emperor barely registers the deaths of billions of mortal troops.

 

He executes nobles not for genocide against civilians, but for stealing water.

 

He knows that Horus' campaign is killing off countless mortal troops and civilians. He's well aware of that.

 

Why would one more dead soldier be a tipping point for the Emp?

 

The Emperor is all about stone-cold macro-level planning to perpetuate the species.

 

Horus' callous butchering of some hapless soldier wouldn't reveal anything new to the Emp by the time of their final duel.

 

I'm not trying to convince you to adopt my position...but I don't see how the death of a soldier makes sense as the pivotal moment.

 

The death of a solider as the pivotal moment would make wonderful post-Scouring propaganda to paint the Emp as a benevolent father-figure deity.

[mc warhammer]

i think there’s a difference between making decisions that result in the death of millions from the throne and seeing someone senselessly obliterated in front of you

 

mrdarth’s interpretation makes a lot of sense to me. an emotional bond to ollie isn’t necessary

[mc warhammer]

not that i don’t subscribe to the comparison of mr emp to the confusing and irrational god of the torah. that can still apply, but perhaps this one event is enough to touch a humane part of the emperor thought long dead

[b1soul]

"i think there’s a difference between making decisions that result in the death of millions from the throne and seeing someone senselessly obliterated in front of you"

 

Do you think that's a meaningful difference for the Emp

 

I think it would make more of a difference for a mortal commander

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

The Emperor's actions must have resulted in trillions of ordinary humans being swatted out of existence without a thought. He's exterminated entire planets by the system-load in absolutely horrific ways to reach his goal. Why would one more persuade him of anything?

 

I view The Emperor of Mankind as an utilitarian. So let me explain how an utilitarian would think.

 

To destroy a trillion lives for a goal worthy enough, and his is just such goal, is a righteous, morally good thing.

 

To destroy a single life just because it is there, with achieving nothing, at all, is to commit an act of true evil.

 

From that point of view, the act of murdering Ollanius is actually one of the greatest sins Horus commits, because it serves no purpose. Ollanius is not a threat to him, like Sanguinius. Ollanius is not a threat to his military efforts, like the other legions and forces of the loyalists. Ollanius is not even an innocent victim killed as an example to cow others into submission.

 

Ollanius Pius dies because he is in the same room as Horus. Death of Ollanius Pius is not special because of deep character relationship between him and the Emperor of Mankind. It is special because it shows the Emperor of Mankind the depths to which Horus has fallen, because there is no point to it.

 

Speaking solely from the perspective of morality: The meaning of Ollanius Pius' death cannot be overstated. It is, without a single doubt, under any and every interpretation of morality in which morality actually exists, an evil act. In that regard, it is something unique. And yes, I think that would matter to the Emperor of Mankind.

 

 

To play devils advocate, he kills Ollanius Pius because he's an irritant during a duel for the fate of humanity. You're right that Ollanius is utterly beneath him, but to say that that fact makes Horus completely evil is like saying that every child who's killed a fly is completely evil because the fly is no threat and serves no purpose in being killed.

[Knockagh]

 

 

If we believe Malcador the primarchs were never meant to survive, they were supposed to kill each other. So Sangys death shouldn’t be a total disappointment for the big E. Although at that stage I’m sure he realises how badly his plan has gone. I would think that would annoy him more than anyone’s death.

but if we also believe other parts of the HH literature, there was a facility for them to either grow up in and/or retire to. There were very long-term plans that had at least *some* of these primarchs as essential parts of them, many of them had skills going far beyond war-making, and in the very same piece of work you are taking from, there is also the statement that it was all a lie to make a person feel better.

 

soooo.....

Head wrecker

[Mellow]

I think it’s probably something simple like:

 

Either The Emperor knows Oll is a perpetual and the act of snuffing out his soul makes Him realise that He May be in danger

 

Or

 

Seeing a single human stand up to Horus in a moment of defiance is all the Inspiration He needs to produce a soul bullet.

[Sabadin]

And a disturbing realization, depending on who writes it, we end up with The Emperor already mortally wounded by Horus and knowing he has no choice but to Soul Bullet him, but he doesn't have enough time to charge it up. Oll shows up and pokes Horus with his dagger. Horus proceeds to swat Oll like a fly, then launch into an 80's cartoon villain monologue, giving The Emperor the time he needs to destroy Horus.