Kill Team Tactica: Genestealer Cults

[mel_danes]

Let us know how it goes. Edited September 15, 2018 by mel_danes

[Orpheus108]

Will do

[Orpheus108]

Greetings All,

 

Well played the industrial loving GSC a number of times against Astartes, AM, Harlequins and Eldar. And have come across a number of fun things against the different factions.

 

•General overview : well I ran most of my guys up and as distraction to get my industrial guys in close to charge range to mess them up. The mining laser is a target but with careful planning I could get a few shots off to hit main targets such as leaders and specialists.

 

• Astartes : played a number of games against them, reivers are the biggest pain to play against, they just mass wth movement going all over the place. If I got the charge in to them with a drill or cutter and the dice loved me, then generally it was game over for them, I just love those guys, they mess up anything they hit. But overall it's 50/50 against them.

 

• AM : Horde vs Horde, these few games they normally outnumbered me when using just Guard and took out a couple of games against them but the total firepower they do get through in the end. Against a mixed group of AM and Tempestus it normally got me and I was hosed, but again my drill and cutters just shine here and took out a number of the Tempestus out.

 

• Harlequins : I hate there flip here, flip there guys and girls. Once into charge range which I tried a number of times to get as close as possible then minced Eldar, but they are hard to target in a rich terrain environment and had to lure into the open so the mining laser could take them out. (Side note: I do have a KT of them and want to get a Death Jester, who I just love to use as a commander)

 

• Eldar : The guy that uses these guys always take a weapons platform and it does well in taking a few guys out So it becomes a major target for me to hit and it's always deployed up high as it can. The games have been fun and I've never won against them yet, mainly due to really bad dice rolling and 2 games have come close once we got into hand to hand with my drill and cutters.

 

So overall, I'd say the industrial love GSC are just so my h fun to play and I, really looking forward to adding in a commander and seeing how they play from there.

 

And how is everyone else going with them?

[Rogue]

I’ve got most use out of the mining laser by hiding it somewhere out sight, but covering somewhere I don’t want the other side to have easy access to (like the obvious route to an objective).

With only one shot, I don’t want him moving too often, but if I can have him readied, then anyone coming round the corner is going to get shot before they can try and take him out.

It’s a bit like the way vindicators used to be - area denial and psychological threat, even if it never gets to kill things because they’re busy avoiding it.

[Rogue]

I'm a little confused by the heavy rock cutter and its special rule. It comes into effect once damage has been caused, so this is after the saving throws. Given that the cutter does 2 damage, does that means that against virtually every target in the game there's no need to roll the dice at all, as even a 1 will be higher than their remaining wounds of 0?

 

Or are people paying that a model has one wound remaining, so a 2+ takes them straight out of action, and if it doesn't, we apply the two damage and then get to roll of the injury table anyway.

[Rogue]

And talking about weapons - can anyone offer any thoughts on equipping an acolyte leader and icon bearer?

 

On the one hand, auto-pistol vs hand flamer. Within 6”, the auto hitting of the flamer, plus the potential multiple shots means it’s far more effective than the auto-pistol. Obviously the auto-pistol is better from 6-12”, but that’s it. Are those gauranteed hits worth the extra two points?

 

And with the leader, is it better to just drop the pistol altogether and go with a lash whip? It’s situational, of course, but then so is a pistol - if you’re in range with either pistol weapon, you’re potentially charging anyway, and then you cannot fire till next turn, when hopefully you’ve killed your target and don’t need the pistol shots any more.

 

If anyone could share any practical experience with acolytes, that would be great.

[Dosjetka]

If I have the points, I'll always take flamer pistols. Due to the cramped environment, targets will usually be close enough to get roasted. It's also a decent charge-deterrent as flamer pistols auto-hit and could deal an annoying flesh wound just before combat or even take out the charging foe! Last thing: autopistols shooting over 6" have a -1 to hit rolls so unless you Ready your model, it's got only 33% chance of hitting your target. Not all that good. Yes, it's free and will be at least somewhat useful if you have nothing else but if you can spare the points, take flamer pistols. Edited November 19, 2018 by Chaplain Dosjetka

[Rogue]

Yeah, that's the conclusion I was tending towards, and I hadn't thought about the overwatch thing, so that's another point in favour of the flamers.

 

I take your point about auto-pistols only hitting on a 5+ beyond 6", but I'm not sure how readying improves those chances. I know readying lets you shoot earlier in the phase, but if it gives you a bonus to hit, I've missed that rule.

[Dosjetka]

You're completely correct: we've been playing that wrong! Cheers for pointing that out to me. :tu:

[Master Sheol]

This is the rooster i put down for a campaign i am starting soon

 

Cult of the Dark Star [138pts]

 

Leaders [10pts]

Metamorph Leader [10pts] Autopistol, Metamorph Whip, Rending Claw, Leader

 

Specialists [38pts]

Acolyte Leader [9pts] Autopistol, Bonesword, Rending Claw, Zealot

 

Genestealer [11pts] Combat, Extended Carapace, Scything Talons

 

Neophyte Gunner [9pts] Heavy, Mining Laser

 

Neophyte Leader [9pts] Bolt Pistol, Medic, Power Pick

 

Non-specialists [90pts]

 

Aberrant Fire Team [38pts]

Aberrant [19pts] Power Hammer

Aberrant [19pts] Power Hammer

 

Acolyte Hybrid Fire Team [24pts]

Acolyte Fighter [12pts] Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw [4pts]

Acolyte Fighter [12pts] Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter

 

Genestealer Fire Team [11pts]

Genestealer [11pts]

 

Neophyte Hybrid Fire Team [8pts]

Neophyte Gunner [8pts] Grenade Launcher [2pts]

 

Suggestions and Comments?

Edited November 21, 2018 by Master Sheol

[Rogue]

I’ve found that a flamer does a lot more for my team than a grenade launcher - auto-hits count for a lot (especially combined with the demolitions specialism).

 

I’d also suggest some cheap bodies. You only have 11 guys on your list at the moment, so maybe add a few neophytes - I like the shotguns, and as you’re mostly geared to get up close and personal anyway, they’ll likely end up within 6” to take advantage of the strength boost.

 

And talking of getting up close, how about finding space for an icon bearer? Coupled with the stratagem that pushes the icon bubble out to 12”, it can offer reasonable support to fighters hitting on 3s (allowing them to reroll half of their misses).

 

Out of curiosity, why have you armed your metamorph and acolyte leaders as you have? A metamorph leader is next on my assembly line (after my acolyte combat weapons) - I’m still pondering his weapon fit, but like the look of the bonesword and hand flamer, and would be interested to know why you’ve gone a different way.

[Master Sheol]

I was thinking of arming my metamorph leader with Claw and hand flamer and the acolyte leader bonesword and hand flamer

 

The Number of models (12) is because a campaign rooster must Be 12 models at the start and then you Can addirittura models up to 20

[Rogue]

You’ve only got 11 in the list so far (1 leader, 4 specialists and 6 others), so that’s space for an icon or a flamer (or and icon and a flamer if you drop the grenade launcher).

 

Personally, I’m not sold on the whips - I’d rather invest in offensive weapons and try to take the other down before they kill me, not after. Which is why I’m thinking I’ll take the bonesword (the -2 AP making it the hardest hitter available), coupled with the metamorph talon that he already has for whacking anything with a 6+ save.

[Master Sheol]

You’ve only got 11 in the list so far (1 leader, 4 specialists and 6 others), so that’s space for an icon or a flamer (or and icon and a flamer if you drop the grenade launcher).

 

Personally, I’m not sold on the whips - I’d rather invest in offensive weapons and try to take the other down before they kill me, not after. Which is why I’m thinking I’ll take the bonesword (the -2 AP making it the hardest hitter available), coupled with the metamorph talon that he already has for whacking anything with a 6+ save.

I was thinking metamorph Claw and flame pistol on metamorph leader and bonesword and flame pistol on acolyte leader

[Master Sheol]

My new rooster

 

LEADERS

Metamorph Leader - Hand Flamer, Metamorph Claw, Leader

 

SPECIALISTS

Genestealer [scything Talons, Flesh Hooks, Combat]

 

Neophyte Gunner [Heavy Stubber, Heavy]

 

Neophyte [shotgun, Medic]

 

Acolyte Leader [bonesword, Hand Flamer, Zealot]

 

FIRE TEAMS

Neophytes

Neophyte Gunner [Flamer]

Neophyte [Autogun]

Neophyte [Autogun]

 

Acolytes

Acolyte Fighter [Hand Flamer, Heavy Rick Saw]

 

Metamorphs

Metamorph [Hand Flamer]

 

Genestealers

Genestealer [scything Talons]

Genestealer [scything Talons]

[Rogue]

Looks good. The stubber will be a target, as he's your only real ranged firepower, but that's just a feature of the GSC, I think. And at 36" he'll out-range most people, unlike the other two heavy weapons available.

 

You've got a lot of close-quarters options, and speed with the stealers. I'd still try and get an icon in there (if points allow), maybe on your basic metamorph, or on the shotgun-wielding medic - shotguns and hand-flamers both want to be within 6" anyway, which is ideal for an icon.

 

And talking of the stealers, there's no reason not to whack an acid maw on one of them. It's free and doesn't replace anything else they have.

 

 

* math-hammer warning *

 

The metamorph claw interests me. I feel like it should be the big hitter, but against the teams I've faced so far, the bonesword comes out on top (math-hammer-wise, which isn't the be-all-and-end-all, obviously, so I'm not suggesting that you change things around just because I like playing with fractions).

 

Against Ad Mech (T3, 4+ save), and in the hands of an S4 wielder, the sword wounds on 3+ and beats the save 5 out of 6 times (so 2/3 x 5/6, or 10/18). The metamorph claw wounds on a 2+, but only beats the save half the time (so 5/6 x 1/2, or 5/12). So the sword lands damage 20/36, and the claw just 15/36.

 

Against Marines (T4, 3+ save), the sword wounds on 4s and beats the save 4 out of 6 (1/2 x 2/3, or 1/3), whereas the claw wounds on 3s but beats the save just 2 out of 6 (2/3 x 1/3, or 2/9). So the sword causes damage 12/36, and the claw 8/36. 

 

Both times the claw comes off worse. On top of which, you're giving up the metamorph talon and the rending claw to get it (both of which have potential utility, and the rending claw just edges the metamorph claw in my two examples too), whereas the bonesword is an extra, meaning you've got options.

 

And both the metamorph claw and the bonesword are a point each, so it is a direct comparison.

 

Funnily enough, I've always put my trust in high strength, with AP being a secondary consideration. But for these examples at least, it seems that it's the AP modifier that matters, with strength as a helpful extra. 

 

* you can look back now *

[Droz_64]

Can I get some feedback on this list? 

 

 

++ Kill Team List (Genestealer Cults) [99pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

List Configuration: Matched Play: Kill Team

 

+ Leader +

 

Acolyte Leader [10pts]: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Leader

 

+ Specialists +

 

Aberrant [18pts]: Combat, Power Pick

 

Acolyte Fighter [13pts]: Demolition Charge, Demolitions, Hand Flamer

 

Neophyte Gunner [6pts]: Heavy, Heavy Stubber

 

+ Non-specialists +

 

Neophyte Gunner [9pts]: Flamer

 

Neophyte Gunner [9pts]: Flamer

 

Neophyte Gunner [9pts]: Mining Laser

 

Neophyte Hybrid [10pts]: Cult Icon, Shotgun

 

Neophyte Hybrid [5pts]: Shotgun

 

Neophyte Hybrid [5pts]: Shotgun

 

Neophyte Hybrid [5pts]: Shotgun

 

++ Total: [99pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

 

I haven't tried it yet, but I think I've got a good mix of shooting and melee, as well as having enough bodies to hold objectives.

[Orpheus108]

Very close shooting team, the shotguns and flamers, flamers are great though for that auto hit.

 

Have you thought about using 2 aberrants in the list and giving them combat and zealot specialty. The mining laser is good but I love using cutters and/or drill. They just chew through anything and are great at taking out marines and the like, only trouble is that they are a target.

 

You can't go past a comms guy either since GSC needs extra love to hit things. But the best way is give it a go and see how it plays out, it love to hear how it goes with the amount of shotguns and hand flamers your running.

 

Just my 2 cents worth

[Dosjetka]

I'd suggest fielding your Aberrant as a Zealot specialist and with a power hammer. The amount of damage it does is phenomenal and is bound to give your opponent headaches, as well as acting as an effective "distraction Carnifex" that will draw both attention and fire away from the rest of your models.

[Rogue]

Why zealot over combat, Dosjetka? The aberrant is already S5 - with the hammer that becomes S10, and you’re wounding everyone on 2s, so you don’t need the zealot strength boost. In which case, combat’s +1 attack is more useful because it lasts beyond the first turn of combat.

 

Comms is useful, Orpheus, but neophytes can’t take that specialism, which means you’d have to put it on an acolyte or a metamorph, neither of which want to be hanging back baby-sitting the firebase. I’ve found that the mining laser, despite being 50/50 to hit at best, works as a threat - it may be unlikely to hit, but if it does, it’ll really hurt.

 

I think the list looks good - lots of reasons to get within 6”, but a lot of bodies moving forward en mass put pressure on the other side, and gives them a lot of target priority issues to deal with.

 

And as Orpheus says, it’d be good to hear how you get on with it.

[Dosjetka]

Combat specialism is more flexible as it triggers every time the model fights, not just in the turn the Zealot charged. That said:

 

- telling my opponent that a model has three S12 attacks has had a real psychological effect on them;

 

- in a narrative campaign, the 6+ FNP at level 2 on an Aberrant makes it hit and be able to tank damage like a freight train at full speed;

 

- the level 1 specialist tactic, when used correctly and with a bit of luck, can take out a whole group of foes in one round of CC (happened to me and swung the game in my favour);

 

- the Zealot specialism suits Aberrants more than the Combat one fluff-wise (in my opinion);

 

- the Combat specialism is better used on a Acolyte Hybrid with one of the industrial tools.

 

Edit: I'll admit these aren't the most compelling arguments out there but they're the reasons why I've gone with a Zealot Aberrants and it seems to have worked out for me so far. :tu:

Edited November 26, 2018 by Chaplain Dosjetka

[Rogue]

Good points. I haven’t used an aberrant yet - I’m only just getting my acolytes to the table now to bolster my existing neophytes - but I still enjoy seeing other people’s ideas and particularly the thought processes behind them.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[JaM_TW]

I'm probably missing something, but in the KT-book I dont see 'stealers as options. So how come you guys field them?

*confused*

[Orpheus108]

@Flint&Steel, KT rulebook page 185, top of page.

 

Purestrains Genestealers. When you add a Genestealer (pg 179) to your command roster (and create it's datacard) you can choose for it to have the GENESTEALER Faction keyword instead of the TYRANIDS Faction keyword.

 

I find fielding a few of them tends to make people think about the possible damage that they can do plus their speed and tend to try and take them out first, leaving my most useful GSC members to get into a great position.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Orpheus108

[Dosjetka]

Not only that but with Ld 9, once morale starts becoming an issue, you have a chance to still have a few models that are able to function normally especially if one of them has the Veteran specialism.