HH Series ending soon. Siege will be another series

[Moonreaper666]

I'd agree if BL was doing more than its current standard word count. The sheer scope isn't so easy to condense into 5 books at this point, if it ever had been without abandoning all detail and nuance. Heck, a lot of epic fantasy authors have at least double the wordcount in their novels these days. Slaves to Darkness might have barely been 95k words. That's half of the Fellowship of the Ring, and Tolkien, despite his elaborate descriptions of wildlife, was pretty straightforward on the journey itself, and had a cast of characters that stuck together, with some of them barely getting developed until the following books. We're looking at basically 20 factions worth of Fellowship characters that need to be fit together into a system-spanning final conflict for the future of humanity.

 

Generally, the only HH novels that went over the usual length were McNeill's, most notably Vengeful Spirit (which got split into two volumes in German and French editions) and A Thousand Sons. Some novels went down to about 90k words, like The Unremembered Empire, which I'd argue is a novel that is comparable to the character free for all of what a Siege novel needs to handle, but absolutely failed in having any real gravitas. For reference, the Kyme anthology Born of Flame appears to be close to 140k words, versus Slaves to Darkness's 95k.

 

Frankly, I think the Siege has much too much going on to be squeezed into less pages than the first Mistborn trilogy.

 

How many books do you think should be enough? And what would be in each book?

 

Who should die on Terra?

 

Who should make a surprise appearance?

[Rob P]

Personally release schedule is more of a priority than numbers. 6 over 3 years would be far more frustrating than 12 over a spectacular year.

 

I'm not sure what I would like to see as the Horus Heresy ends. I would like to be surprised.

 

I could live without the following in this specific series:

 

- A prominent webway story

- Magnus shard story

- Stories focussing on named 40k characters that just appear to remind you they exist (Khârn, Lucius, First Claw, etc)

- Grey Knights/Knights Errant/Inquisition

- Xenos

- Daemon characters - unless they are fresh

- A prominent mars story

- Anything outside of the Sol System

 

All that sort of stuff could be done in expansion stand-alone novels.

[Knockagh]

I'd agree if BL was doing more than its current standard word count. The sheer scope isn't so easy to condense into 5 books at this point, if it ever had been without abandoning all detail and nuance. Heck, a lot of epic fantasy authors have at least double the wordcount in their novels these days. Slaves to Darkness might have barely been 95k words. That's half of the Fellowship of the Ring, and Tolkien, despite his elaborate descriptions of wildlife, was pretty straightforward on the journey itself, and had a cast of characters that stuck together, with some of them barely getting developed until the following books. We're looking at basically 20 factions worth of Fellowship characters that need to be fit together into a system-spanning final conflict for the future of humanity.

 

Generally, the only HH novels that went over the usual length were McNeill's, most notably Vengeful Spirit (which got split into two volumes in German and French editions) and A Thousand Sons. Some novels went down to about 90k words, like The Unremembered Empire, which I'd argue is a novel that is comparable to the character free for all of what a Siege novel needs to handle, but absolutely failed in having any real gravitas. For reference, the Kyme anthology Born of Flame appears to be close to 140k words, versus Slaves to Darkness's 95k.

 

Frankly, I think the Siege has much too much going on to be squeezed into less pages than the first Mistborn trilogy.

You have a point on their word count. I would imagine they keep it deliberately low to make sure we all are physically able to read multiple books each month. I know if we had normal length novels from BL I could probably only manage one book max per month were as with BLs smaller novels I can read several books each month across various topics. So I still don’t want massive books for the seige series, 5 of their standard books, over two years, in a nice special edition will suit me fine.

I’m only getting into AoS fiction and another huge drawn out series running alongside the primarchs and whatever 40k books I want will mean something will have to give and it will be AoS because it’s new and I would prefer not to drop it again.

[Indefragable]

I don’t give a Skaven’s rear-end how many books cover the Siege of Terra. It should be as long —or short—that it needs to be to support the best possible story.

 

It’s like arguing over the size of the plate your food’s going to be served on before even knowing what’s on the menu.

 

 

Aside: why is there a big deal about “who drops the shields” to The Vengeful Spirit? Doesn’t the original fluff say Horus did deliberately did it to bait Emps + Co to come up for some fisticuffs? ...and it almost worked?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It doesn't need to be more than one novel to do it the justice we deserve .

[Fire Golem]

It doesn't need to be more than one novel to do it the justice we deserve .

Of course it does. There’s no way to satisfyingly cover the whole siege of Terra in one novel.

[Indefragable]

 

It doesn't need to be more than one novel to do it the justice we deserve .

Of course it does. There’s no way to satisfyingly cover the whole siege of Terra in one novel.

What if [insert favorite author here] was given complete creative control and was unfettered by any outside demands beyond executing their vision for “the best possible telling” of “the Siege of Terra” however they interpret that and wrote a single 700 page book that did just that?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I am sure there will be at least 15 novels and it ends up getting very diluted. One novel would have been very exciting and that is what we were all expecting. Sorry I can't be an apologist on this guffaw .

 

@ Indefragable that is exactly what I was thinking... look at novels like Vengeful Spirit that were pretty much garbage and many many pages - the right author could have certainly done it justice.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I am sure there will be at least 15 novels and it ends up getting very diluted. One novel would have been very exciting and that is what we were all expecting. Sorry I can't be an apologist on this guffaw .

 

@ Indefragable that is exactly what I was thinking... look at novels like Vengeful Spirit that were pretty much garbage and many many pages - the right author could have certainly done it justice.

 

It's not so much the event, but the fact that everyone will be wanting a book about "their faction" during the Siege. We've got Custodes, Imperial Fists, White Scars, Blood Angels, Salamanders (well, Vulkan), Knights Errant, Death Guard, World Eaters, Emperors Children, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Iron Warriors, Sons of Horus, and Word Bearers, and those are just the majorly present Legions and factions. If any get passed over in a singular Siege of Terra novel, people would go insane.

 

Best scenario, in my mind, for a "small-scale release", is a book from the Traitors first, essentially Slaves to Darkness Part 2, that deals with the first landings and breaching of the walls, and then a second book from the Imperial side about the final defense.

[Scribe]

 

I am sure there will be at least 15 novels and it ends up getting very diluted. One novel would have been very exciting and that is what we were all expecting. Sorry I can't be an apologist on this guffaw .

 

@ Indefragable that is exactly what I was thinking... look at novels like Vengeful Spirit that were pretty much garbage and many many pages - the right author could have certainly done it justice.

 

It's not so much the event, but the fact that everyone will be wanting a book about "their faction" during the Siege. We've got Custodes, Imperial Fists, White Scars, Blood Angels, Salamanders (well, Vulkan), Knights Errant, Death Guard, World Eaters, Emperors Children, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Iron Warriors, Sons of Horus, and Word Bearers, and those are just the majorly present Legions and factions. If any get passed over in a singular Siege of Terra novel, people would go insane.

 

Best scenario, in my mind, for a "small-scale release", is a book from the Traitors first, essentially Slaves to Darkness Part 2, that deals with the first landings and breaching of the walls, and then a second book from the Imperial side about the final defense.

 

 

This is exactly what was wrong with the whole Heresy.

 

How many bloody useless Salamader books did we get? Let alone 'Shattered Legions' that should have been done in 2 books? Total fabrication of the Knights Errant. Complete fluff jobs out of various aspects of the fluff, Perpetuals???

 

No.

 

Get the story done right. I dont want another word about Vulkan, or Corax. Not one.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Even if you remove Vulkan/Corax/Knights Errant, you've still got 7 Traitor Legions there in force, alongside 3 Loyal Legions, and the Custodes, all of which will need screentime.

[Scribe]

Space Port: Death Guard vs White Scars - Wraight

Siege: IW vs Fists, WE vs Blood Angels, Emperor's Children vs Civ's - French

Palace: Emperor vs Horus, Sons vs Custodes, Night Lords vs whoever is left (Guard, like the true craven's the NL are).  - ADB

 

You are welcome Black Library. Easy stuff.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Yeah, that'd be pretty awesome. We'll see how it pans out.

[b1soul]

@ Scribe

 

The conflict at the Spaceport was between WS and a main force of DG with some other legion support, yes? I forget whether it was exclusively WS vs. DG. Either way, it'll be good.

 

"Emperor's Children vs Civ's"

 

Ouch

[Scribe]

@ Scribe

 

The conflict at the Spaceport was between WS and a main force of DG with some other legion support, yes? I forget whether it was exclusively WS vs. DG. Either way, it'll be good.

 

"Emperor's Children vs Civ's"

 

Ouch

 

Yeah I think it was, but the primary forces in the old (IA era?) fluff had it as WS and DG I think. Its been a while, and probably will be retconned to bring in the 'shattered legions' that should have been dead, gone and useless for a long long time...bah.

 

And yeah, EC vs Civilians has the potential to be grim.

[mc warhammer]

might be nice to read about some desperate resistance to the EC from the civilian perspective?

[Roomsky]

While I'm totally in favor of a shorter siege lineup (if by some miracle it was assembled by BL's top of the top tier writers only), I am in full support of a siege anthology. Thing is, the running plot threads in the Heresy don't need a conclusion with finality, there's plenty of that for the Scouring. They simply need some closure, some acknowledgment at the siege. Besides, an anthology will allow for a wide enough perspective that won't risk diluting a novel.

 

On a more cynical note, the inevitable cut away to Vulkan punching daemons will be far more tolerable in short story form than diluting a novel otherwise about established events.

[rookie40K]

Apparently the new word on the street is that the Siege is going to be an eShort by Phil Kelly. Exciting stuff.

[Fire Golem]

 

 

It doesn't need to be more than one novel to do it the justice we deserve .

Of course it does. There’s no way to satisfyingly cover the whole siege of Terra in one novel.

What if [insert favorite author here] was given complete creative control and was unfettered by any outside demands beyond executing their vision for “the best possible telling” of “the Siege of Terra” however they interpret that and wrote a single 700 page book that did just that?

I’m sure it would be a great book. It would have to be relatively limited in scope though, or the story would be stretched too thin. There’s a lot going on in the siege.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Apparently the new word on the street is that the Siege is going to be an eShort by Phil Kelly. Exciting stuff.

 

"Black Library is proud to announce that the Siege will be written by a returning fan-favourite, C.S. Goto!"

[Fire Golem]

I am sure there will be at least 15 novels and it ends up getting very diluted. One novel would have been very exciting and that is what we were all expecting. Sorry I can't be an apologist on this guffaw .

 

@ Indefragable that is exactly what I was thinking... look at novels like Vengeful Spirit that were pretty much garbage and many many pages - the right author could have certainly done it justice.

I don’t think many people were expecting one novel for the siege. Considering the series had an opening trilogy, a closing trilogy was probably expected. And I’m not sure who’s being an apologist (or even what for?).

[Scribe]

One novel is impossible. There is literally no way the whole thing is covered in one novel. 3+ books, min

[Knockagh]

If one book is impossible the other end of the scale with 10 books is ridiculous.

That is if it only encompasses the seige, will we get two political books on the aftermath including the council of terra? I could dig that? A couple of books based on mars, the formation of government there post seige. The creation of the grey knights after Malcadors demise. If these are all covered under the seige title I could probably stretch to 7 or do books. But 10 books of battles, pleeeease no.

Take a book to set the scene on terra, two books to get the battle over and then the rest on the aftermath.

[DukeLeto69]

(Just for fun, not passing judgement or opinion) My prediction (based on nothing really)...

 

Siege of Terra series will have a release pattern of at least one item per month for a period of two years. As GW financial years run from June I expect them to launch either just prior (for a last income boost) or just after the FY end.

 

Novels by = Abnett, ADB, Annandale, French, Haley, O'Neill, Thorpe, Wraight.

 

Novellas by = Kyme, Reynolds (J), Sanders.

 

At least one (but I predict two) anthology with short stories from all above plus = Dunn, Goulding, Guymer, Reynolds (A), Smillie, Swallow.

 

Not including audiodramas as they will get printed prose version in anthology(s) but I predict about six.

[A D-B]

 

It doesn't need to be more than one novel to do it the justice we deserve .

Of course it does. There’s no way to satisfyingly cover the whole siege of Terra in one novel.

 

A lot happens in the Siege, over the course of a serious chunk of a year. Like, a lot. And it also needs to wrap up the arcs of about a hundred characters, one way or another. Hell, even if it didn't, a lot of stuff goes down in the Siege.

 

Plus, we'd be crucified by the fandom for just doing it in one book. I'm breaking out in hives and fear-sweat just imagining the online fury.

 

 

 

I am sure there will be at least 15 novels and it ends up getting very diluted. One novel would have been very exciting and that is what we were all expecting. 

I don’t think many people were expecting one novel for the siege. Considering the series had an opening trilogy, a closing trilogy was probably expected. And I’m not sure who’s being an apologist (or even what for?).

 

I've quite literally never seen a single person say they were expecting (or wanting) just one Siege novel, until today. And I post on / read a lot of 40K forums, subreddits, and FB groups.

 

Now, in what will come as absolutely no surprise to anyone who has even a passing familiarity with me, I was one of the ones on the HH team arguing for the least number of Siege novels. I think I was tied with another author on saying it needed to be the lowest number in the list of possible final figures. But doing it in a single novel just isn't something that matches up with the lore of what goes down on Terra.

 

Hyperbolic claims of "It'll be a million novels, etc." are funny but no, it really won't be.