Rate what you Read, or the fight against Necromancy

[DukeLeto69]

“chronologically fits in between Pariah and Penitent.“

 

Does it? I thought it was set a little before Pariah?

[Sothalor]

“chronologically fits in between Pariah and Penitent.“

 

Does it? I thought it was set a little before Pariah?

 

Hmm, you may very well be right, depending on whether Medea is functioning in a certain role during the story. I'll have to reread it.

 

If it is chronologically set before Pariah, then I would still recommend reading it between Pariah and Penitent for two main reasons; first, like The Magos it's POV is that of a character surrounding Beta and its very format plays spoiler to the emergent mystery tone of Pariah. Second, its connection to the larger overarching plot threads tie in more directly to Penitent.

[byrd9999]

Thanks for the tips. I do have the Inferno! Inquisition anthology, but I haven't read Lepidopterophobia yet. I'll slot it in before Penitent 

[Noserenda]

Oooh that's one I'd missed, do need to get that Inquisition anthology!

 

I've just had to put Echoes of the Long War down, even hours after reading the worst space battle I have ever read it's preying on my mind... More later when I can trust myself to not just rant :D

[byrd9999]

I've only read the first story in the Inferno! Inquisition anthology so far, Mindshackle by Robert Rath, and it was excellent.

 

It's about Inquisitor Greyfax, but also tangential to his necron stories.

[Noserenda]

Oooh that's one I'd missed, do need to get that Inquisition anthology!

 

I've just had to put Echoes of the Long War down, even hours after reading the worst space battle I have ever read it's preying on my mind... More later when I can trust myself to not just rant

So the space battle itself wasnt mind breakingly awful, The Fists Exemplar fleet is responding to a Last wall distress call but messily translate across (presumably) the edges of a system fighting a random selection of Ork ships as they do so. The Orks are somehow jamming all communications including psychic (fine if odd) and the Exemplars split up in the confusion with some racing to rescue another fleet of Black templars also presumably responding to the distress call deeper in system fighting the main Ork force which includes the real problem an Ork ship, (not a hulk, not an attack moon, specifically a built ship) that "dwarfs the Phalanx" so the biggest ship ever seen in 40k, by a considerable margin. This ship has somehow failed to stop two already damaged strike cruisers (The source of the distress signal) despite being on top of them and possessing a weapon that one shots escorts and 2 shots battle barges (Bit OTT but this is 40k) with a higher rate of fire than the attack moon version (Not stated but its killing a LOT of ships).

 

Now i thought it was just keeping them as bait to pull the other ships into range of its flange cannon BUT, as things develop, heroes learn important information and immediately die (sigh) but the Ork ship runs into some serious trouble and decides to pull a Predator, firing its plot ray at the (distant) sun, which, in the time it takes a space marine to react to that development, converts the sun into a black hole which immediately starts tearing ships apart unless they pull emergency warp jumps.

 

I just... Thats now how any of this works? I got a few more chapters in but i definitely need a break. Like, some flex in the fiction is fine actually but this is all the sort of thing an editor should have been on top of, and its not even really needed and could have been replaced by all sorts of other options, like, just use an attack moon? Or lots more ork ships? The Imperials have to scatter because of reinforcements? Arrrgh it might just be me but i needed to get this off my chest

 

*Edit Also, apologies for any incoherence, im on some big painkillers today*

Edited March 9, 2022 by Noserenda

[sitnam]

I just finished up Darkness in the Blood, and I gotta say I loved it. I already appreciated Haley's Blood Angel work from DoB and Dante, and DoB actually made me fall in love with Mephiston and Gabrielle Seth, which in turn got my to read their associated works.

 

I quite like that this version of Mephiston feels very much the same as Darius Thinks version. It feels like Hinks and Haley had a bit of cooperation in writing these books.

 

The novel is a bit everywhere in terms of storylines, but I liked all the different subplots so that was fine. The admiral with PTSD, Dante's relaying his story, Mephiston darkness. The scene where Mephiston casually wipes out a cult is pretty fun, and might be my favorite of the book

[Sothalor]

Darkness in the Blood is one of those novels that felt real weirdly disjointed when I read it; seemingly slapdash and unrelated plot threads, disparate narratives, and odd character work.

 

But when I think about it, looking back, I'm beginning to think I missed what the novel was about. Darkness in the Blood isn't just about Blood Angels; it's specifically about human trauma, and it uses the three main plot threads to explore responses to trauma. Dante's recollections, Mephiston's transformation, and the Admiral's attempts to hold himself together.

 

I think it's that theme of trauma and how we react to it which ultimately ties the novel together. It essentially offers three human responses to that kind of experience - integration (Dante), transformation (Mephiston), and self-destruction (the admiral).

[byrd9999]

Vaults of Terra: The Hollow Mountain, by Chris Wraight.

 

 

A strange one, this. It very much felt like a transitionary book, between what came before and what will come afterwards. This follows directly on from The Carrion Throne, and shouldn't really be read on its own.

 

There were some great moments, showing the workings of Terra, the Nexus Axiomatic, the Astronomican, how Terra starts to learn of the Great Rift opening up. And some of the writing is superb, whole paragraphs worth quoting about life on Terra in and around the Palace region.

 

But overall, the book felt a little empty. There wasn't any real character progression or development, or any further depth, to Inquisitor Crowl, Interrogator Spinoza, Khazad, Revus or Hegain. They just kind of existed in the book as devices to get from one location to the next, relying solely on their characterisation in the previous book for the reader to get to know them. The deepest characterisation was of the semi-mechanical archivist, Yulia Huk, who deserved more screen time in the first book, and got it here, but died. Terra itself was a far more developed character in this book than the protagonists, and maybe that was deliberate.

 

The mysteries and plot devices were also flat for me, with the author deciding to create mystery by withholding what the characters discover and revealing it later, rather than there being much of a mystery in the first place.

 

The book also followed a similar path to the previous one, literally, with the characters ending up engaged in gun fights in dark tunnels, racing towards the palace, trying to catch up to the nebulous baddies who were a step ahead of them.

 

Chris Wraight did a good job of establishing groundwork for these characters in The Carrion Throne, but didn't progress much in the sequel. In fact, this book would be better off being edited down and bolted onto the end of the first book.

 

 

7/10.

[phandaal]

The Successors

 

Premise felt like something of a bait-and-switch.

 

Based on the title and description, was expecting a book about successor chapters doing normal Space Marine things - shooting the bad guys, purging heretics, and so on.

 

Turns out this book is mostly about how Primaris Marines integrate with Successor chapters, or Successor Primaris Marines react to progenitor chapters, or Primaris Marines being better than original Marines.

 

That last bit might sound like salty grognard-speak, but if you read this book you will see. It is very noticeable in a short story format where every word needs to count, and where the same thing is repeated multiple times over the course of the collection.

 

Some stories handle this fine, like the Wolfspears or Soul Drinkers. Others are just plain bad, like the Exorcists story that straight up says its protagonist is better because he is Primaris and would have failed in his task if he were a normal Marine.

 

Black Dragons made little sense, as it is predicated on the assumption that Cawl would have access to the original Black Dragons geneseed with which to create new Primaris Marines. If this is the case, then the whole "Black Dragons never share their geneseed" thing is a wash since the Inquisition can just go to Mars and get some of their own for testing any time they want.

 

There are a couple of good stories in there, but overall not enough to save this one.

 

3/10

[sitnam]

The Black Dragons do give a gene seed tithe though; not doing so would of led to an Inquisitorial purge, which they are close to anyways. From what I recall of Death of Antagonis, they tend to give a “select” portion of their gene seed.

[DarkChaplain]

Yep, they're highly selective about what they send over. Ironically, this also leads to tensions within the Chapter, due to the mutations being more widespread in some than in others - drastically so. They tend to send the dudes that pass for normal on official business... rather than those that might require adjustments to their armor (like accomodations for horns in their helmets).

[phandaal]

The Black Dragons do give a gene seed tithe though; not doing so would of led to an Inquisitorial purge, which they are close to anyways. From what I recall of Death of Antagonis, they tend to give a “select” portion of their gene seed.

Correct. The Black Dragons never give their "tainted" geneseed, only the stuff from the guys with no bone spikes or other divergences.

 

The short story is about a Primaris fresh from Mars who starts growing bone spikes, which means the kind of geneseed that the Black Dragons have taken care not to provide for thousands of years has been sitting there on Mars this whole time.

 

That, or the author did not think about it that hard.

[Noserenda]

Or the problem is inherent to all the geneseed but does not always manifest? 

[phandaal]

Could be, but that still renders the Black Dragons' efforts at concealment pointless if even the geneseed from Black Dragons with no physical deformities has the problem. The entire question could have been avoided of course by not having the protagonist start growing spikes, or giving him a different origin.

 

That particular story is actually not bad, and would be worth recommending if not for the bad lore.

 

It is just an unnecessary goof in a book that already has other issues.

[sitnam]

I'll reserve my judgement for when I read the story, but it really doesn't seem like that big of a deal. What Noserenda said wouldnt be out of the realm of possibility. Even if the Black Dragons have unknowingly sent "tainted" geneseed, as long as the samples pass tests then that's all that matters.

 

I'm kind of theorizing that the Black Dragons have a few known and unknown benefactors keeping this hush. We know of atleast one inquisitor (Dagovar) and Cannoness (Setheno) that work with the chapter. Who could say that someone like Cawl wasn't using the genetically flawed foundings to run experiments?

[phandaal]

I'll reserve my judgement for when I read the story, but it really doesn't seem like that big of a deal. What Noserenda said wouldnt be out of the realm of possibility. Even if the Black Dragons have unknowingly sent "tainted" geneseed, as long as the samples pass tests then that's all that matters.

 

I'm kind of theorizing that the Black Dragons have a few known and unknown benefactors keeping this hush. We know of atleast one inquisitor (Dagovar) and Cannoness (Setheno) that work with the chapter. Who could say that someone like Cawl wasn't using the genetically flawed foundings to run experiments?

 

In my opinion, the more excuses we have to invent on the author's behalf, the lower the rating the story should receive.

 

As mentioned above, that is just one example from one story out of the collection. The main problem with the book is its repetitive focus on certain aspects of "Primaris vs Firstborn." Some of them work, like the Wolfspear and Soul Drinkers stories. The Crimson Fists one is interesting as well, maybe because "Primaris" could simply have been replaced with "new recruit" in that story without changing much.

 

In the others, each mention of how a Primaris Marine can run up stairs faster, or has better equipment, or can break chains that would bind a mere Astartes (yes, that is in there) feels like running over a pile of bricks when you are cruising down a country road.

 

9 out of 13 of the stories follow this format. The ones that do not are Carcharodons, Mortifactors, Angels Penitent, and Iron Lords. Only one I did not like there was Angels Penitent, although someone who is into Warhammer Horror might enjoy it more than I did.

 

4 unique stories out of 13 does not make for a good purchase though.

If you are interested in reading multiple repeats of the same Primaris story beats we have seen in other Primaris stories, then this book may be worth a purchase. Otherwise, this one is a skip.

[Noserenda]

If its coming across like a wet leopard growl thats understandable, but Primaris are bigger/stronger/techier etc than lil ole marines so really it would be kind of odd for it not to come across in early encounters with them, or indeed to be key differences authors would riff on, and if they were all written in isolation its kinda inevitable they come up?  

With the Black Dragon thing, obviously the actual workings of geneseed are mysterious but they are usually consistent, which means its not an individual line of them or something, its a problem with the lot but its not always expressed, and honestly id be genuinely surprised if the Mechanicus know enough to spot subtle or seemingly random problems anyway.

 

[phandaal]

If its coming across like a wet leopard growl thats understandable, but Primaris are bigger/stronger/techier etc than lil ole marines so really it would be kind of odd for it not to come across in early encounters with them, or indeed to be key differences authors would riff on, and if they were all written in isolation its kinda inevitable they come up? 

 

 

 

The main issue with the Primaris v Firstborn thing is that it is not all that interesting after you read it a few times, because it is usually the same things mentioned.

 

This is especially noticeable in a short story format where valuable space is given over to things that do not actually matter to the story.

 

Minor example. In the Consecrators story, they mention that the Primaris Marine with them could maybe interface better with some electronics thanks to his armor being more advanced. Never happens, so it does nothing for the story. Later on during what is supposed to be a tense scene with the Primaris Marine rushing to warn his companions of something, they take the time to mention that he is running up some stairs faster than he would have been able to run if he were not a Primaris Marine. He ultimately ends up not even reaching those companions and so that line is irrelevant.

 

On the flip side, in the Wolfspear story they explicitly focus on the interaction between a Wolfspear officer and a Wolf Priest sent from the Space Wolves to evaluate the Wolfspear. In that case the descriptions make sense and add to the story.

 

Unfortunately the book has many more examples of the former than the latter.

[DarkChaplain]

Only one I did not like there was Angels Penitent, although someone who is into Warhammer Horror might enjoy it more than I did.

First Fehervari, I take it?

 

For what it's worth, it (and Wolfspear) are the reason I got the book. I wasn't disappointed with either of them, and pray that Peter isn't done with BL for good. He's superb.

[DukeLeto69]

Still maintain the whole Primaris thing was a bit ill-conceived and they missed a trick with the more narratively satisfying (and real world analogous*) rubicon. Having old/firstborn marines having to undergo a tortuous operation(s) with a high chance of not surviving provides great dramatic tension AND means those who survive are already experienced veterans.

 

That will forever be my head cannon rather than thousands sitting on ice waiting for Cawl to do his thang.

 

*and it meant people who gradually collected their new Primaris models for the TT and fielding them together with old marines made sense too.

[Sothalor]

I think there's another aggravating factor in this collection when it comes to the Primaris vs. Firstborn angle: it undermines the whole Successors angle.

 

See, the title of the anthology implies an exploration of the culture and traditions of these Chapters - they aren't the Space Marine Legions of the Great Crusade, but almost all of them are nevertheless thousands of years old with their own ways of doing things, their own outlooks, experiences, inter- and intra-organizational relationships, cultural quirks, etc.

 

There's a lot of potential there.

 

However, because most of the stories in this anthology come at it from the Primaris angle it starts to feel repetitive and redundant. They all start to blend together - which is not what you want to happen in a collection supposed to showcase how these various Chapters are distinct!

 

It's like... going to a street faire, with a row of food vendors. They advertise different kinds of cultural cuisine - here's Mexican, there's Filipino, that's Japanese, there's Swedish, and so on. Except then it turns out that all of the food options - ALL of them - are something on tater tots. This is a carne asada on tater tots. That's a lechon on tater tots. Sashimi - on tater tots. So on and so on. That's not necessarily bad from a flavor and eats perspective, but it is a limitation on how each can be represented then and there.

[DukeLeto69]

I haven’t bought Successors for all the reasons folks are saying AND because the ONLY story I want to read is Fehervari’s. Gonna have to wait for the PB.

[phandaal]

I think there's another aggravating factor in this collection when it comes to the Primaris vs. Firstborn angle: it undermines the whole Successors angle.

 

See, the title of the anthology implies an exploration of the culture and traditions of these Chapters - they aren't the Space Marine Legions of the Great Crusade, but almost all of them are nevertheless thousands of years old with their own ways of doing things, their own outlooks, experiences, inter- and intra-organizational relationships, cultural quirks, etc.

 

There's a lot of potential there.

Yep, this is what I think most people would expect from the title and description.

 

However, because most of the stories in this anthology come at it from the Primaris angle it starts to feel repetitive and redundant. They all start to blend together - which is not what you want to happen in a collection supposed to showcase how these various Chapters are distinct!

And this is what we got instead. Hence the "bait-and-switch."

 

On the other hand, you guys have convinced me to give Fehervari another shot.

[cheywood]

Twice Dead King: Reign

 

Took me a minute to read it, but if this isn’t in my top five at the end of year I’ll be shocked. It’s astoundingly bold exploration of the Necron race and a wonderfully characterful journey. The prose is a delight and the pacing never lets up. It inspires you to relate to its characters and mourn/cheer/criticize them in a way a lot of 40k books struggle with. It has horror, heroism, and much more comedy than one would expect. If you’ve read Ruin you know all this though, because both books are equally brilliant. Can’t recommend either of them enough, this is what Warhammer 40k fiction should be.

 

Side note: the special edition short stories in both books (The Life of Jethras the Martyr and Patience) are a delight as well. They work superbly in complement to the novels, but I think readers will enjoy them a lot on their own. Worth keeping an eye out for in future anthologies.

Edited April 10, 2022 by cheywood