Rate what you Read, or the fight against Necromancy

[DarkChaplain]

Re: Guilliman vs Mortarion: It's important not to discount Mortarion's daemonhood. It puts him far and beyond regular Primarchs, unless external factors dampen his presence.

In Dark Imperium, he's basically been building up a realm to dominate in; he's on peak performance for a Daemon Primarch, while Guilliman is still somewhat hampered by his near-death and "just" a Primarch.

Even Jaghatai got his bum handed to him and couldn't simply win against Morty - and Jaghatai is a spectacular fighter with very, very few rivals among his brotherhood (remember, Jaghatai was confident he'd beat Fulgrim, who had a big ego about swordsmanship)

 

Guilliman is the next-closest thing to Mortarion that the Imperium has... but that's still a massive power gap between them when Mortarion is properly anchored. Not just that, we have the titular Godblight right from Ku'gath's cauldron. None of the Loyalist Primarchs would have been able to go toe-to-toe with Mortarion at that stage. There's a reason why most Daemon Primarch vs Primarch fights so far came down to an external factor, like Perturabo's siege tactics against Angron, or Sanguinius' wings, or Fulgrim's vanity, Mortarion's hubris and gloating even when up against suicidal Grey Knights. Magnus tore Vulkan to shreds myriad times, until Vulkan had worn him down enough for the Crimson King to start trying to bargain with psychic visions and self-justification, the rejection of which kind of broke his mojo.

 

So I honestly thought the fight between the two turned out about as expected, especially considering the malady and all. Guilliman pretty much knew it wasn't a fight he could win by himself.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I’m not sure how much we can trust Jaghatai’s self-assessment, though, given we’re repeatedly shown in his Heresy arc that he’s just kinda assumed his own superiority and that people will eventually accept that, only for that to not turn out to be the case, like with his entire stance on the Librarius and why he didn’t defend it himself. 
 

Not saying he’s not a good fighter, just that the one source backing this position is the Khan saying “just trust me bro”, when the rest of the books show we can’t exactly just trust him. 

[Roomsky]

Tolmeus and Roomsky: Ever at odds.

 

Good review, though I disagree with much of it - I even thought Plague War was the least bad of the 3. There are positives to those books, many of which you cited, but they're often bogged down by lackluster execution or being completely buried under pointless battles I assume were intended to sell Primaris marines. I quite enjoy the Guilliman scenes in Dark Imperium especially, they're just not enough to keep what may as well be a third of a novel afloat.

 

And then there's Godblight. I'm happy for the people that enjoy it but it's incredibly contrary to the appeal of the setting, and often even just the appeal of this series. Guilliman's reflections are cut down hard, most of the trilogy's side characters are inconsequential, Matthew is right, and the Emperor brings Guilliman back to life and sets Nurgle's garden on fire. For a reader like me, it goes past Imperium fellating and turns into something the Imperium just isn't. 

 

I give the authors heaps of credit for making 8th edition and beyond fit more in-line with the appeal of 40k, and even Haley does this well with Dawn of Fire. But if you must know about the Plague Wars, I'd never recommend these over a codex.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Roomsky

[SkimaskMohawk]

Ya, I though dark imperium was like a 6, plague war was a 7, and God blight was like a 2. I was genuinely excited for Haley to hit his stride with the third book and it felt like he got kneecapped instead.

 

Haley is so weird. He can grasp the core of a character and make a wonderful novel like Dante or (imo) curze and Perturabo. But he can fumble a ton like in Lost and the damned and godblight. 

[Tolmeus]

2 hours ago, Roomsky said:

Tolmeus and Roomsky: Ever at odds.

 

But different perspectives and opinions are what making these discussions all the better. Before I read Godblight I read also the threats about Dark Imperium and already assmued that my review is probably at odds with the wider assesment of the triology. Even though, I really appreciate your feedback and can see as always the rational behind it. Happy to argue with you about the next novel too 

 

5 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

Re: Guilliman vs Mortarion: It's important not to discount Mortarion's daemonhood. It puts him far and beyond regular Primarchs, unless external factors dampen his presence.

 

I am aware of that but after such a great description of the battle between Mortarion and Jaghatai, and even though Guilliman got all the disadvantages and Mortarion all the advantages, I still felt it to be shorter than it could have been. I mean, they exchanged about 4-5 moves with each other and thats it. Again, it may purely be my wishful desire that is at odds with the 40k reality 

[cheywood]

Legion - Dan Abnett

 

I started reading the Heresy for the first time in 2012, and I blazed through the 20 or so books that had already been released. At that point I would’ve probably put Legion as my favorite. It’s filled with cool moments, massive revelations, and the promise of intricate plots in the future. As I recall I liked it a lot more than Horus Rising. Now, a decade later and hundreds of BL books behind me, I come firmly to the opposite conclusion. Legion is great fun, philosophically engaging, and miles better than the early novels put out by Swallow, McNeill, Counter et al, but it hits best on the first read and diminishes a little after that, whereas Horus Rising has only grown in my esteem. 
 

A large part of that is simply the kind of novel Legion is. It relies heavily on twists and suspense to drive the plot forward. Once you know the twists, the novel, while still brilliantly written, becomes much less exciting.
 

The other part is that the Cabal plotline never really went anywhere interesting. I suppose it’s possible Abnett will revitalize it somehow in TEaTD, but as of now it feels like we got this book of fascinating possibilities without much payoff. French did some interesting things in Praetorian of Dorn, but that novel feels much more focused on the function of the AL than its philosophy (almost as an intentional inverse of Legion). Meanwhile The Cabal plotline was handed off to Nick Kyme and promptly butchered. 
 

You’ve also got some dissonance between how Dan depicts the AL - a small and secret group of heavily pragmatic espionage oriented Astartes that seems closer to the size of a 40k Chapter than a Legion - and how they’re depicted in the Black Books and other novels - much more like a traditional GC legion. I personally didn’t mind it all that much, especially since I like Dan’s concept, but it does make things feel a little silly when you compare. 
 

All that said this is still Dan Abnett we’re talking about. Pretty much every character is well realized, the description of Nurth is gorgeous, the Imperial Army is realized more fully in this than all the other Heresy novels combined, and the philosophical conceit of the novel - what is it like to be a pawn? - is captured perfectly. This book isn’t about the details and tactics of the Alpha Legion, it’s about the experience of fighting with or against them, and Abnett conveys that mix of falsehoods and uncertainty perfectly. 10/10 the first time, 9/10 on subsequent rereads. 
 

Some scattered thoughts:
 

John Grammaticus is compelling in that Abnett has crafted a character you can relate to and enjoy greatly in terms of intent, but still recognize that he’s a naive, selfish, arrogant fool. As a teenager I liked him immensely, as an adult I look at him with mixture of pity and contempt, To me that is one of the defining features of good character work - capturing the different aspects of a person and letting the reader decide how they feel about the resultant creation. I know everyone has their own feelings about the Perpetual plotline in general, and mine are very mixed, but I think Grammaticus in Legion works really well. 
 

There’s a strong comedy of errors vibe to the Imperial Army at times. Like the army is a creature of many heads all biting at each other. I’m always impressed at the way Abnett can capture the absurdity of 40k without descending into farce or parody. It’s a gift I think he shares with Iain M Banks, who captured the humor of life without letting his stories feel anything less than serious about their perspectives and themes. 
 

The histories and backgrounds of the Imperial Army regiments in the Nurth campaign are exquisite. If you didn’t know any better you’d think Abnett invented the terms and regions wholesale, but as far as I can tell he just uses antiquated or obscure names from the real world. It lends everything this wonderful sense of history while also communicating the way understanding changes over time. 
 

There’s really very little combat in this book. Abnett, in my mind, is so incredible partially because of the way he utilizes action to communicate character. It turns what could be a boring slog through chopped heads and dismembered limbs into fun moments. His action scenes are among the best in the business because of that, but in Legion he keeps the focus mostly on the before and after of combat. 

 

Next up, some short stories and The First Heretic

Edited January 8, 2023 by cheywood

[Roomsky]

Assassinorum: Kingmaker - Robert Rath

 

I'm so happy I enjoyed this. Even after a re-read, I'm still not as enamored with The Infinite and the Divine as everyone else seems to be. But Kingmaker is very good, and the first 375 pages-or-so are straight brilliance. I think Rath delivered the premier book on Imperial Assassins, and he threw in the premier book on Knight Titan culture as a bonus.

 

The premise is great. 3 assassins with wildly conflicting methodology plan to kill a king permanently interred in a Knight Titan. All the ingredients are here for a great story, and Rath makes good use of them. Raithe is a cold sniper who actually feels the pros and cons of being so, rather than just being le cool sniper OC. Sycorax has a believable reason for being a more temperamental member of the team, and I appreciate that polymorphine's downsides are present and her effort to maintain the right shape under pressure is given due attention. I was also relieved to find that Koln the Vanus is capable of doing more than shifting data in a chair, and had much more personality than "beep-boop I am logical."

 

The plotting I love too, for the most part. The action is sparse, but pleasingly brutal when it occurs as should be the case for undercover assassins. The execution squad has to contend with intrigue and logical roadblocks every step of the way, and it creates a believable and gripping narrative throughout.

 

I don't want to say the ending was bad. It was exciting and climactic, but I don't think it lived up to the rest of the book. We're suddenly expected to remember who several knight pilots are whose only function up until this point was set dressing. I also don't think Rath's talent for quick and brutal action scenes gels with describing knight combat. There are a lot of knight classifications and weapon names thrown around and it all just dissolved into literary noise in places.

 

I also didn't much like either of the twists.

 

 

 

Rakkan finding the secret super-knight he was destined for on accident felt unearned, to me. Maybe a re-read will drop more foreshadowing than I caught the first time, but it felt pretty left-field.

The Chaos cult was better set up but I thought it was conceptually more frustrating. There are plenty of reasons to try and secede from the Imperium, it doesn't need to be because of xenos or Chaos cults every time. Worshipping the daemonic kind of undermines any cause and cleans the Imperium's hands a bit too often and too easily, IMO.

 

 

 

But for all that, it was still pretty great. I hope we get a sequel, because there's a lot of setup here it would be a shame to never pay off.

 

This is a Must Read, despite my issues.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Roomsky

[Felix Antipodes]

ASTRA MILITARUM WEEK SHORTS

Have been working through the eShorts being released this week.

 

The Reward of Loyalty by Tom Chivers

Really enjoyed this one, although the end was telegraphed about halfway through.  While technically a Guard story, I found it to be more of a Dark Angels tale the further on it went.

Some clunky dialogue at times but it had that most important thing every story needs - it kept my interest up from the start and I was keen to finish it.  It showed a lot of promise for a first time author.  Will be keeping an eye out for his next one(s) to see if he can maintain the standard.

 

Hell Fist by Jason Woolley

Another story that impressed by grabbing hold from the start.  I have been a fan of Woolley’s style for awhile and this short combined his previous writing subjects (Guard and Orks) in a tale told from both viewpoints.  It probably helped that we met in passing some familiar names from his recent novel (Catachan Devil).

 

Blood Sands by Victoria Hayward

To be truthful, I’ve found Hayward’s previous works a bit hit and miss (not that there is a plethora to choose from).  Happily she was on song with this tale, although I had an inkling of who the traitor was early on.  Didn’t spoil it for me though at the payoff.   There were a couple of moments where I thought a bit of editing might have helped but that is on them, not the author.

 

The Sum of Its Parts by Rhuairidh James

Another new author (at least to me - there was a AoS short previously I haven’t read).  Without a doubt the best of the series so far.  The story is a gem from start to finish, providing James to showcase multiple factions as the tank progresses along its timeline.  In just the first few pages we find (imho) one of the best takes on the Mechanicus I’ve seen, before providing great vignettes of the Astra Militarum, Adeptus Astartes and even a genestealer cult.  Guess I will be hunting down that AoS story.

 

Less Than Human by Steve Lyons

The only “old guard” name in the series.  The story is essentially a tale contrasting the Krieg and Mordian styles of warfare and highlights how the Astra Militarum is made up of wildly conflicting styles and cultures.  That they are both similar on the surface but almost alien as well.  I was impressed with Lyon’s recent Krieg novel and he shows an equally good grasp of the Death Korps here.

 

Don’t know if I was in a good place when reading these, or if I struck a particularly good seam of quality, but I enjoyed all of these to one level or other with the Rhuairidh James offering a stand out.

 

edit: I found that AoS story by James.  Subject is not in the purview of this forum.  But it was good as well.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Felix Antipodes

[Roomsky]

Gods of Mars (and the series overall) (Audiobook) - Graham McNeill

 

You know, I think this is the first Black Library series I've read where the individual pieces don't function as standalones. I've called the Ahriman Omnibus one giant book in the past, but that's just because Exile and Unchanged read better as part of the whole. Forges of Mars is literally just a single story split into 3, Lords and Gods do not act as even weak standalones. And while I enjoy the usual 3-stories-in-sequence approach, I wish we had just a few more in the catalogue.  I guess Bequin is shaping up to be this too, but it's not done yet.

 

Gods of Mars itself really was quite climactic, and well-earned in my opinion. General consensus seems to put this one as the least of the 3, but it wasn’t far behind Lords (the best one) in my opinion. Every character has a good send-off, with a couple of exceptions I'll get to later, but even for those I thought the characters as individuals still had a good showing. This whole book ramps up the action, but it’s the best kind in Black Library: problems to solve, rather than just enemies to shoot. Every challenge is unique, and the cast needs to consider every move before they make it due to how outmatched they are. Kudos to McNeill, I don't think this book had any low-points in terms of pacing. It was all fun, all the time. If anything, it feels like the glorious swan song to the more old-school Black Library approach of "the galaxy is so big, I can write about basically anything so long as it doesn't come into contact with a codex character."

 

I'm going to go into negatives now, because they're easier to talk about than how generally good this book and series are. I give Gods of Mars a 7.5/10. It's really solid.

 

None of my issues are deal-breakers, and most of them are more of a taste issue, but they did stand out fairly obviously to me. A big one is that, like with any good media, its tantalizing to think how it could have been better. In my Lords of Mars review, I stated that Priests was all set-up and nothing interesting done with it, and that with a few cuts part of Lords of Mars' content could have been moved to make that first book stronger. I double-down on that now, because I think this series could have been the GOAT if it was 2 500 page books instead of 3 400 page ones.

 

For instance: I get that McNeill's doing a big sweeping "look at all these factions" styled series, but the titan crew POVs did nothing for these books. They take up quite a few pages in Priests, and then go basically nowhere. Hawkins seems to be here because he was in another McNeill product; at least Hawke is amusing.

 

On the other side of things, Telok's resources stopped showing how powerful he was after a while and started coming across as page-filler. Vehicles for the main cast to get their due, sure, but almost certainly compressible. Also, shapeshifting mooks with no personality is about as boring as you can get for an enemy force. As much as I liked Dahan, the alpha-beast he fought seemed to exist purely so he could kill something cooler-than-average.

 

Telok himself is a good ideological foil to the protagonists, but after 2 books of Galatea being an absurdly lethal troll, Telok taking the reigns of main antagonist seemed a bit of a letdown - he's very milquetoast by comparison. Also, much as he's an egomaniac, it seems like it would have been easy to get a free ride back to the Imperium if he'd resisted cackling like a madman for just a little longer.

 

Other sundry annoyances:

• I dislike the escalation to existence itself being on the line at the end. Part of 40k's appeal is that massive, epic, world spanning events occur on the regular and the wider galaxy cares not at all (to say nothing of the entire universe.)
• The Black Templars should have been basically any other chapter. These fellows were far too reasonable and trusting around the Eldar. Keep in mind these are zealots for whom pragmatism and reason are not the first priority.
• Anything directly referencing contemporary things only gets more annoying with time. I could have done without the William Blake.

 

But again, none of these are deal breakers, a finer-toothed comb just comes out when a series is good. Here's some sundry things I loved, now I know how it all fits together.:

• Galatea is a great antagonist, and comes across as less unbelievable come the last book where a logical weakness is exploited.
• This series is largely Chaos-free, a rarity these days, especially for such an enormous cast.
• For all I dislike the level of threat in Gods, I appreciate that it provides a concrete explanation of why Necrons don't break the setting.
• The amount of characters means several threads can be almost purely character-driven
• It's less on the nose than McNeill's usual writing.
• It's a ton of fun!

 

Overall, great series, if flawed. Highly recommended if you enjoy McNeill, I think this outdoes A Thousand Sons as an achievement, in my eyes.

[Urauloth]

Based entirely on positive buzz on the B&C, I picked up Assassinorum: Kingmaker and bumped it up my to-read list, and I'm pretty glad I did!

I don't have a whole lot to say about this one other than that it's really fun. It has a pulpy tone and a good mix of espionage and action (some of which is quite silly, but in a good way). The twists in the plot aren't really surprising, but they're entertaining even if you have a good sense they're coming. The worldbuilding is great, and it's packed with detail without having to slow down to incorporate it.

About that. Other people have noted this already, but Kingmaker is the best book about knight worlds and arguably the best book about knights we've had so far. It's a good book about assassins, but a great book about knights.

Anyway, I recommend it, and I expect to re-read myself it at some point.

[crimsondave]

Ephrael Stern - The Heretic Saint

 

Absolutely unreadable.  The plot is between lazy and non existent.  Stern is the most Mary Sue, no personality, uninteresting character in any novel I’ve ever read.  More Captain Marvel than a 40k character.  The very beginning of the book established a couple promising characters but abandons one and never takes the other anywhere.  It feels thrown together at the last minute.  Many hours of my life I’d like to have back.  Don’t do it to yourself.

[Urauloth]

I got The Heretic Saint free in a bundle and decided to take a stab at it, I'm about halfway through and I'm putting down permanently. It's not the worst Warhammer novel I've read; that dubious honour still goes to Malodrax, although there's nothing in Heretic Saint as memorable as Lysander hotwiring a Lord of Skulls and surfing it through the desert in his underwear. That have broken up the relentless tedium, at least. There's just nothing interesting in this one, no personality, no reason to care about any of the set pieces. It's a shame, because the narrator for the audiobook is one of my favourites, she just doesn't have a lot to bring to life here.

 

On the other hand, in my second "surprised by liking a Graham McNeill story" incident in the last few months, I thought Sons of the Selenar was a really solid novella. It didn't do anything surprising, but it didn't need to. This is just a short, fast-paced adventure that gives its cast a good send off. In terms of being an "extra" to the Siege, it does its job well, giving us a glimpse of something going on outside the main battlefields and away from the primarchs, which helps to make the Age of Darkness feel more lived in. I'd actually like more of these, and I can't help feeling (again) that the army plot from The First Wall would have worked better in novella form.

 

I have to say, McNeill came a long way as a writer in his time at Black Library. I'm never going to like False Gods, and the less said about Vengeful Spirit the better, but his contributions to the Sabbat and Warhammer Crime anthologies are consistently high in quality, and I'm certainly glad I picked up Selenar. I should stop being surprised when I like his work.

[Sothalor]

1 minute ago, Urauloth said:

Lysander hotwiring a Lord of Skulls and surfing it through the desert in his underwear

 

Come again? That sounds amazing. 

[theSpirea]

The only part I liked in The Heretic Saint was at the beginning, Dagover's conversations with Kayon Velthaus. The Stern's parts were unfortunately too Marvel-ish for my taste.

[Tolmeus]

Helsreach - Aaron-Dembski Bowden 

 

In accordance to the release of the Armageddon LE of Aaron-Dembski Bowden I plunged myself again on the siege of Hive Helsreach.

 

To be brief:

Altough it is one of the earlier works of ADB you already experience his writing style and, in my opinion, excellent character building. I rate it 9/10.

 

The long explanation:

The story captures the beginning and high point of the Thrid War for Armageddon (yep, here we go again). It thereby keeps the focus on the newly appointed Reclusiarch Grimaldus of the Black Templars. High Marshall Helbrecht hands him over his own Crusade, the Helsreach Crusade, in order to protect the hive on Armageddon against the biggest force the Imperium has seen.

 

There are quiet a few things Grimaldus has to cope with:

-He has to adept to his appointment as Reclusiarch and new role in Chapter command, as well as to do justice to his former master and predecessor. 

 

-He despises the task from his liege to be sent to Armageddon to defend an all to clearly doomed Hive for honours sake (he sees no honour in dying for a lost course).

 

-At last he has difficulties to understand human interactions as an Astartes and moreover Black Templar (in his eyes the most blessed Chapter there is).

 

Besides Grimaldus there are plenty of other interesting and well written figures:

-The Colonel Sarren of the Armageddon Steel Legion, who has overall command of the Hives defences and gives his best effort to the point of total exhaustion.

 

-The Princeps Majoris Zarha, commanding the Emperor Class Titan 'Stormherald'. I was very pleased to get a description of one of humanity's greatest war assets that benefits from, rather than lacks, human interactions. Also the relationship between her and Grimaldus is fantastic. 

 

-And at last Stormtrooper Andrej. His carefree manner and (supposedly) Eastern European slang are a rare and welcome sight in the ever nihilstic 40k universe.

 

Maybe one of the greatest achievements of the novel is that, altough part of the 'Space Marine Battles' series, it is no bolter-porn. 

 

Since I read 'Spear of the Emperor' right before this novels second read, I can really see the improvements ADB has established since then (no wonder I would rate SotE a generous 11/10 ^^)

 

9/10 (must read for Space Marines fans)

Edited February 15, 2023 by Tolmeus

[Ubiquitous1984]

1 hour ago, Tolmeus said:

Helsreach - Aaron-Dembski Bowden 

 

In accordance to the release of the Armageddon LE of Aaron-Dembski Bowden I plunged myself again on the siege of Hive Helsreach.

 

To be brief:

Altough it is one of the earlier works of ADB you already experience his writing style and, in my opinion, excellent character building. I rate it 9/10.

 

The long explanation:

The story captures the beginning and high point of the Thrid War for Armageddon (yep, here we go again). It thereby keeps the focus on the newly appointed Reclusiarch Grimaldus of the Black Templars. High Marshall Helbrecht hands him over his own Crusade, the Helsreach Crusade, in order to protect the hive on Armageddon against the biggest force the Imperium has seen.

 

There are quiet a few things Grimaldus has to cope with:

-He has to adept to his appointment as Reclusiarch and new role in Chapter command, as well as to do justice to his former master and predecessor. 

 

-He despises the task from his liege to be sent to Armageddon to defend an all to clearly doomed Hive for honours sake (he sees no honour in dying for a lost course).

 

-At last he has difficulties to understand human interactions as an Astartes and moreover Black Templar (in his eyes the most blessed Chapter there is).

 

Besides Grimaldus there are plenty of other interesting and well written figures:

-The Colonel Sarren of the Armageddon Steel Legion, who has overall command of the Hives defences and gives his best effort to the point of total exhaustion.

 

-The Princeps Majoris Zarha, commanding the Emperor Class Titan 'Stormherald'. I was very pleased to get a description of one of humanity's greatest war assets that benefits from, rather than lacks, human interactions. Also the relationship between her and Grimaldus is fantastic. 

 

-And at last Stormtrooper Andrej. His carefree manner and (supposedly) Eastern European slang are a rare and welcome sight in the ever nihilstic 40k universe.

 

Maybe one of the greatest achievements of the novel is that, altough part of the 'Space Marine Battles' series, it is no bolter-porn. 

 

Since I read 'Spear of the Emperor' right before this novels second read, I can really see the improvements ADB has established since then (no wonder I would rate SotE a generous 11/10 ^^)

 

9/10 (must read for Space Marines fans)

Andrej is one of my favourite ever BL bit-part characters.  Jonathan Keeble represented him very well in the audiobook.

 

If you haven't read the follow-up novella you really should!  I think it's called Fire and Blood.

[Tolmeus]

Roboute Guilliman - Lord of Ultramar 

David Annandale

 

This novel marks the start of the Primarch series and I wasn't especially excited to read it. The series in total had many people experiencing mixed feelings and that was also what I heard about this one. But since I have read 'Dark Imperium' and feel nowadays much more interested in Guilliman as a character, I thought that now is as good as any time.

 

To my great surprise it wasn't half bad. 

 

The story itself is focussed on the Ultramarines after they have razed the perfect city of Monarchia as an order by the Emperor to humiliate the Word Bearers (we all know what a great idea that was).

Guilliman reflects on this action and sees the need for his legion to prove that they are not just destroyers but creators (as one may also see in 'Know no fear'). Especially the destroyer units doesn't fit comfortable with him and the majority of them have evolved an own culture that is at odds with Guilliman's plans for the Ultramarines. While a campaign of extermination of an orc empire is at its closure, the Primarch seeks the opportunity to weld his legion together.

 

So much for the plot.

 

As a primarch novel, it should also have the spotlight on Guilliman himself, right?

And it does that! We get to know insights (feelings, thoughts, opinions, ...) of a Guilliman who is yet untempered by the Heresy war or the horrific state of the Imperium in the 40th millennium. Rather refreshing to see how hopeful and idealised he seems to be at this point of time. His lectures at the start of each chapter of the book and his own thought processes further conclude this image.

 

What the story in my opinion lacks though is suspense. It is not bad, but I just doesn't got the feeling that there is a great danger or anything like that. That Guilliman could blast the orc away at any time since he has enough Ultramarines and firepower may add to that. The orcs in general were really boring. The seem to be the foremost Xenos enemy in 30k but are described so mindlessly boring (They attack head on and in great mass, their only strategy, always and forever). And both graver dangers to Guilliman were also a bit lacking in creating a threat to him. 

 

Altough I have already read most of the other Primarch stories, this acts as an apt start of the series but overall suffers from an mediocre plot.

 

5/10 (okay, nothing special. If one wants to know more about Guilliman before 'Know no fear', here you go!)

Edited March 8, 2023 by Tolmeus

[Pacific81]

On my very slow catch-up of the Heresy series I have read 51 - Slaves to Darkness by John French. Enjoyed the book but one massive let-down for me was Horus not absolutely murdering Lorgar when he found out he had been plotting to usurp him.

 

I know there are all sorts of arguments against him doing it (losing control of the WB legion for example) but sometimes you just have to let your bad guys behave like bad guys! It's not like death has stopped many characters from coming back in the series. I had a scene in my head reminiscent of Megatron killing Starscream in the original Transformers cartoon movie, an an extremely satisfying srquence that obviously John French has not seen (or else was told to ignore!)

Edited March 10, 2023 by Pacific81

[SkimaskMohawk]

30 minutes ago, Pacific81 said:

On my very slow catch-up of the Heresy series I have read 51 - Slaves to Darkness by John French. Enjoyed the book but one massive let-down for me was Horus not absolutely murdering Lorgar when he found out he had been plotting to usurp him.

 

I know there are all sorts of arguments against him doing it (losing control of the WB legion for example) but sometimes you just have to let your bad guys behave like bad guys! It's not like death has stopped many characters from coming back in the series. I had a scene in my head reminiscent of Megatron killing Starscream in the original Transformers cartoon movie, an an extremely satisfying srquence that obviously John French has not seen (or else was told to ignore!)

 

I'm pretty sure ADB wanted to kill lorgar off in First Heretic in his duel against corax, but wasn't allowed. I don't think french would have had much more success, even with how little impact lorgar has on the lore afterwards.

[crimsondave]

On 2/14/2023 at 7:18 PM, Urauloth said:

I got The Heretic Saint free in a bundle and decided to take a stab at it, I'm about halfway through and I'm putting down permanently. It's not the worst Warhammer novel I've read; that dubious honour still goes to Malodrax, although there's nothing in Heretic Saint as memorable as Lysander hotwiring a Lord of Skulls and surfing it through the desert in his underwear. That have broken up the relentless tedium, at least. There's just nothing interesting in this one, no personality, no reason to care about any of the set pieces. It's a shame, because the narrator for the audiobook is one of my favourites, she just doesn't have a lot to bring to life here.

 

On the other hand, in my second "surprised by liking a Graham McNeill story" incident in the last few months, I thought Sons of the Selenar was a really solid novella. It didn't do anything surprising, but it didn't need to. This is just a short, fast-paced adventure that gives its cast a good send off. In terms of being an "extra" to the Siege, it does its job well, giving us a glimpse of something going on outside the main battlefields and away from the primarchs, which helps to make the Age of Darkness feel more lived in. I'd actually like more of these, and I can't help feeling (again) that the army plot from The First Wall would have worked better in novella form.

 

I have to say, McNeill came a long way as a writer in his time at Black Library. I'm never going to like False Gods, and the less said about Vengeful Spirit the better, but his contributions to the Sabbat and Warhammer Crime anthologies are consistently high in quality, and I'm certainly glad I picked up Selenar. I should stop being surprised when I like his work.

I have to agree Graham McNeill books can be a roll of dice but I loved the one I finished today.

 

A Thousand Sons.  Yeah, I know.  I should have read this like 10 years ago.  I don’t like the traitor legions usually.  I always figured I’d hate Magnus and his boys too.  I didn’t.  Yeah, he was prideful and arrogant but he was loyal.  Very sad story.  One of the better 40k books imo. I never liked the Space Wolves or Russ but I truly despise them after this book.

 

I’d rate a must read.  Most of you probably read this year ago.

[Tolmeus]

Rogal Dorn - The Emperor's Crusader
Gav Thorpe

I am currently invested in reading novels about my favourite loyal legion, the Imperial Fists, again. Thus, I started with my re-read of the primarch book of Rogal Dorn and was yet again surprised how my opinion of this story has changed over time.

The plot (spoiler-free):

On the eve of Horus' inavasion of the Solar system, Rogal Dorn's favoured sons wonder how they came to be the defenders of Terra and their primarch the Emperor's Praetorian. Why him and not one of his brothers?

The answer to this question is best answered by the 'Night Crusade': A campaign to conquer the Occluda Noctis, a vast area encompassing numerous systems but inaccessible to the light of the Astronomican. Four Astrates legions were sent to overcome this challenge and eliminate an unknown danger that has erased all traces of previous expeditions. Given these difficult circumstances, the steadfastness of Rogal Dorn and the VII legion is required.
 

The 'Night Crusade' itself is huge, one of the largest campaigns ever undertaken. From the initial employment of three legions, to the development of varying strategies and the ensuing division of forces. While the other legions pursue their own paths as their primarchs see fit, Dorn dutifully fulfils the Emperor's order in the only possible way: The Imperial Fists must venture into the centre of the Occluda Noctis on their own to confront the lurking danger.
 

Rogal Dorn is marked by three characteristics which dictate his every action: Indomitable will, tactical acumen and unwavering loyalty and idealism towards the Emperor. Thus, Dorn uses any means to achieve the ideals of the Great Crusade. The story captures this impressively. He does not shy away from quarrels with his brothers, sacrificing his command or his own sons. Dorn isn't without affection or honour, but the Emperor's objectives always take precedence. He would never give in to the temptation of personal glory or see himself as irreplacable.
 

In the face of an enemy who demands all his tactical skills, Dorn is animated by a firm determination. Gav Thorpe describes the key events that lead to Dorns final strategy. You experience extensive settings, from void battles to skirmishes, to planet-wide wars of conquest. Each time only the necessary insights are provided. Through the eyes of Sigismund, Rann as well as an Novator and a remembrancer we witness the campaign over its arduous course.
 

Conclusion:

Whereas before I was beyond frustrated about my personal expectations laid low, I was now surprised how aptly the story describes Dorns and the legions nature. It has already been discussed in this forum, but to share more spotlight on these stories once more through the roles of remembrancers has certainly been a great idea. The passages of Larentius val de Meer (love the name) helped to get a better overview over the course of the Crusade. The Novator Rigantis Zuma shows on the other hand how Dorn raises the ones around him through giving them a purpose. What seems still amiss is the fact that this book isn't divided by chapters. Maybe this should let the reader feel a more cohesive experience for the Crusade? Well, it wasn't needed. My only regret is the lack of narration from Dorn's own perspective. This gives us a good insight into his character, but it might have brought him even closer to me as a person.

7/10 (Must-read for Imperial Fists fans! Other than that it is a nice story during the Great Crusade before all hell went down)

 

[cheywood]

The Emperor’s Gift - 10/10
 

Started to read Angron and decided it was a good excuse for a reread of The Emperor’s Gift instead. I’m very glad I made that choice. This is a special book. Like a lot of ADB’s subsequent work it reaches to the heart of the setting without ever stepping outside the perspective of its viewpoint character and represents a triumph of prose and the way in which limited perspective can be used to enhance a story. It has the moments of great and terrible violence we all expect as well as beautiful conversations, and compelling philosophical questions regarding the nature of the Imperium and the purpose of its defenders, be they led by honorable ideals or brutal pragmatism.

Scattered thoughts: 

This is ADB’s first entirely first person novel I believe, and he uses the format to perfection. This is distinctly and inarguably Hyperion’s story, and his voice is captivating. You feel a part of the setting, like you’re riding in Hyperion’s mind the way he rides through the lives of those on Armageddon. 

 

I think this book exemplifies a statement I remember ADB making a few times when he was active online ‘everyone is varying degrees of wrong’. No one in this book comes out looking entirely right or entirely misguided. In a setting like 40k that nuance feels very true to the themes of universe and disappointingly rare in BL’s canon.
 

The Grey Knights are like no other chapter in the setting. Too often it feels like they’re just super secret psyker marines. This book makes it oh so incredibly clear how much more they are. Squad Castian feels like a gestalt organism, all its members living in each others minds, riding their thoughts and emotions. A final and full extension of the sense of brotherhood all Astartes are gifted upon ascension. It’s beautiful.

 

All the Marines are well written, but I absolutely love ADB’s depiction of a certain dreadnought. Would love to read a book about him, if ADB weren’t book up for the next 8 million years with other equally cool projects. 
 

The prose in this novel, while fantastic, isn’t on the same level as something like Echoes. That’s not a criticism, it’s just remarkable how good every sentence in Echoes is. 
 

On a personal note, ADB shouts out a book by Marvin Minsky in the acknowledgements section. Minsky and my grandfather were colleagues/friends back when both were starting out in their respective fields. A cool connection I never noticed before. 

[Felix Antipodes]

I did exactly the same thing; going back and rereading The Emperor’s Gift before digging into Angron.  I had forgotten just how good it was and the standard it set for others to arise to.  While I actually enjoyed Angron for the most part, it suffered a bit from living in the shade of its predecessor.

[DarkChaplain]

I did something similar before going for Angron.... I read Khârn: Eater of Worlds, because of the view on the Legion post-Heresy, pre-Skalathrax.

 

Man, that novel really hurt me. It's great for all it does... but nothing actually pays off at all. All that setup, and then it ends where a regular novel would reach its midpoint. Pretty much every single character and narrative arc demands a sequel, because it just ended up leading nowhere. It's all clearly set up for numerous payoffs, twists and reveals, but none of those are in the book.

 

Heck, there's even a daemon entity declaring Khârn as the "Betrayer", which the characters are scratching their heads over, because in this book, Khârn doesn't actually betray the Legion or anyone, really. He's still on the course of uniting the Legion, leading them, embodying their trust. It's foreshadowing for an event that follows naturally from where this novel ends.... but was never written.

 

As a Legion showcase, it's excellent, but it doesn't at all feature the defining turn in the Legion's fate, or the defining moment of its titular character, or solve the kill squad mystery, or the Emperor's Children PoV character's arc, or the multiple World Eaters' characters personal arcs..... nothing is seen to its narrative conclusion, and lacking a direct follow-up by Reynolds, it's just extremely frustrating.

[Tolmeus]

On 3/28/2023 at 2:47 PM, DarkChaplain said:

As a Legion showcase, it's excellent, but it doesn't at all feature the defining turn in the Legion's fate, or the defining moment of its titular character

I read it right after 'Echoes of Eternity' to see how the World Eaters would fare after the Siege of Terra.
I agree, that it presents a good impression of how the World Eaters organize what is left of their legion after the siege. The crucial question is how do they want to proceed? Do they stay united as a legion or do they break up into individual warbands? I also liked the different portrayals of the world eaters: addicted to murderous frenzy, resisting the butcher's nails or solely concerned with their own glory.
Of course the ending wasn't nearly as satisfying as it could have been. As you already explained, the whole book is crying out for a sequel, or is set up as an introduction to one.