Think Tank: Hypothesizing SW Unit Combo's, Options, Etc.

[Kallas]

What thoughts do you all have as far as army level, hunt groups (packs in synergy support), and pack level strategies, tactics, and the wargear to get their chosen mission done?

 

My current list is running a lot of small units working in unison:

Battalion:

Wolf Lord (TH/SS, JP, Wulfen Stone, Warlord - Beastslayer)

Rune Priest (Sword, JP, Psychic Hood, Armour of Russ, Storm Caller, Tempest's Wrath)

Bjorn the Fell-handed (Twin Lascannon)

 

3 Bolter Inceptors

 

3x 5 Grey Hunters (B&C)

 

Rhino (2x SB)

Razorback (Twin Assault Cannon, SB)

 

Battalion:

3x WGBL (TH/SS, JP)

 

3x 5 Grey Hunters (B&C)

 

Rhino (2x SB)

Razorback (Twin AC, SB)

 

• Multiple small, basic Grey Hunter packs make them not particularly interesting targets, but they can still trim down quite a lot of GEQ-type models (on average, between shooting and charging, they'll kill 6-7); and then being MSU they can spread out to jump on isolated objectives without being particularly expensive.
• The transports can keep them safe, so that my objective grabbers don't get annihilated quickly (and means that the opponent needs to pop them before their anti-infantry weapons can come into play) - and with Storm Caller/Cloaked by the Storm they are pretty damn resilient in T1/2 (depending on what the opponent has/what the terrain is like). And the Rhinos can, of course, gum up overwatch to let my more important melee units get stuck in.
• The Razorbacks are, of course, solid infantry blenders with the ability to chip wounds off heavier things, plus they can benefit from Keen Senses and Bjorn is likely to stick around for the rerolls (unlike the Wolf Lord).
• The transports also help reduce drops to, to more likely gain the +1 to the start roll (generally more useful having the choice!)
• The Wolf Lord/Battle Leaders/Rune Priest death squad is really good. Beastslayer makes them pretty terrifying against vehicles/monsters that will go down fast, and against infantry/other non-vehicles/monsters the Hunters Unleashed means they'll be able to blender plenty of models while being resilient and mobile. The 6" Heroic Intervention is also brilliant. Some armies have very powerful melee threats (Genestealers, Gallants, etc), and the 6" HI bubble means that they can present themselves as charge deterrents (by being close enough to jump over things) but not so close that declaring charges against them is easy (which would keep them safer if they do intervene).
• The Rune Priest is great. Armour of Russ is amazing: with several powerful melee characters it's important that the opponent doesn't get to interrupt and potentially bring one down, and the AoR shuts that threat down instantly (as well as being hilarious when he and the rest of the death squad intervene, allowing them to pummel their target before it gets to go!), plus it gives him a great Invulnerable save. Storm Caller is brilliant, especially for the vehicles when they're shifting about the board.
• Bjorn is a monster. Enough said!
• Ok, so Bjorn brings a little bit of ranged firepower for those things trying to keep away from the death squad, as well as being his own terrifying deterrent for anything trying to close in on the transports; and his T8, character-protected 8W is a nice, solid defensive statline while Trueclaw is utterly brutal. But yeah, he's Bjorn.
• The Bolter Inceptors are a decent, pretty cheap little fire support unit that can just dart about stripping models out of horde units while being a reasonably low priority unit too.
• And of course, it's 13CP (after buying 1 Relic), so its got plenty to go around even with one or two uses of Cloaked by the Storm, which is pretty important, as Wolves do have some good uses for their CP (Honour the Chapter, Armour of Contempt, Only in Death, Seeking a Saga...)

 

Basically, I feel like basic, unequipped/minimally equipped units working en masse should work pretty well. Units can take quite a lot of upgrades, but that rapidly increases their cost while not really improving output by that much. Space Wolves have a lot of strength in their characters (and the character in my list above aren't actually that expensive, which lets me pack in a good amount of them!)

 

So yeah my general, basically untested, theory is:

• Minimalistic upgrades to keep a decent amount of bodies on the table
• Powerful, fast characters to get good use out of Hunters Unleashed (which is useful to throw off the opponent's plans and get more mileage out of them)
• Specialised units with a particular purpose (cheap GH packs for objective grabbing/horde trimming; melee heavy-hunting characters; resilient ammo-sponge vehicles; etc)

[Karack Blackstone]

Solid sounding approach Kallas.

 

I just have one question, as that setup of units and the synergy you plan to strive for on the field is seriously a threat if you can get it down to a repeatable basis.

 

What happens, when, not if, the enemy does the totally unexpected?

[Kallas]

What happens, when, not if, the enemy does the totally unexpected?

That kind of depends on what's unexpected! 

 

Honestly, I don't really know (and I'm not sure I know what would be unexpected!), I need to get more table time in to really run it through its paces, and thankfully my club's league should help me do that!

[Karack Blackstone]

 

What happens, when, not if, the enemy does the totally unexpected?

That kind of depends on what's unexpected! 

 

Honestly, I don't really know (and I'm not sure I know what would be unexpected!), I need to get more table time in to really run it through its paces, and thankfully my club's league should help me do that!

 

 

Heh, it's a Battletech quote attributed to ilKan Ulric Kerensky, of Clan Wolf.

 

Still, the premise is sound; I'm not saying don't run things exactly as you plan. If anything please by all means do so! If it helps, trying to figure out something you're NOT expecting the enemy to do, and then see if you can get ahead of their counter to your push with a counter of your own... In a nutshell, Strategy begets Tactics, and Tactics dictate battleplans and maneuvers during a fight.

 

Put simply, a hypothetical: you're pushing your Rhinos up the board. You are facing, say, Tyranids. Rather than deepstrike a Mawloc under your Rhinos, they go after your Inceptors, if they're on the ground to reduce your offensive threat ability. Or, on the flip side, they go after your Rhinos to slow down your Objective Secured options.

 

What then?

[Kallas]

Heh, it's a Battletech quote attributed to ilKan Ulric Kerensky, of Clan Wolf.

 

Ah, I see! I've only ever played the latest Battletech game (which is pretty great), which is probably why I only heard the whistling sound as the reference soared over my head

 

Still, the premise is sound; I'm not saying don't run things exactly as you plan. If anything please by all means do so! If it helps, trying to figure out something you're NOT expecting the enemy to do, and then see if you can get ahead of their counter to your push with a counter of your own... In a nutshell, Strategy begets Tactics, and Tactics dictate battleplans and maneuvers during a fight.

 

Put simply, a hypothetical: you're pushing your Rhinos up the board. You are facing, say, Tyranids. Rather than deepstrike a Mawloc under your Rhinos, they go after your Inceptors, if they're on the ground to reduce your offensive threat ability. Or, on the flip side, they go after your Rhinos to slow down your Objective Secured options.

 

What then?

 

That's fair, and I'll definitely try to keep my eyes open for that kind of situation (that is, actually seeing something going a different way; not that specific example), although I do acknowledge that I'm at best a middling player. I do, on the other hand, feel like one of the strengths of the list (and the general theory behind multiple, compartmentalised units with redundant threats) is that it can afford to absorb some losses (something which Marines in general tend to struggle with).

 

Pretty much all of the units are small/cheap enough to be throwaway, Bjorn is the single most expensive (and he's a tough cookie); the characters are all resilient enough to be a nuisance to remove/hit hard enough to give heavy things pause for thought; and all together there's enough mobility to be in mutual support range in a good radius (assuming a hard push up the middle, really only the board edges will be beyond reach). Hopefully I will get a game in on Tuesday and be able to provide a little bit more feedback about my general theory and see if it actually pans out even vaguely like how I think it might!

 

To give a little thought to your example, it'd be important to maintain mutual support integrity (ie, don't let the Inceptors get too far away from the core that I couldn't jump my characters/Bjorn out to put it back into the dirt in return!) - but even if they bite the dust, the list should have enough pieces to achieve goals without any one or two specific units (although some, like Bjorn, the RP and WL are all more important than the others). I'd be totally happy if a Mawloc popped up next to the Rhinos: that's basically a free turn of combat (thanks 6" HI!) to play whack-a-Nid

[Karack Blackstone]

 

Heh, it's a Battletech quote attributed to ilKan Ulric Kerensky, of Clan Wolf.

 

Ah, I see! I've only ever played the latest Battletech game (which is pretty great), which is probably why I only heard the whistling sound as the reference soared over my head

 

Still, the premise is sound; I'm not saying don't run things exactly as you plan. If anything please by all means do so! If it helps, trying to figure out something you're NOT expecting the enemy to do, and then see if you can get ahead of their counter to your push with a counter of your own... In a nutshell, Strategy begets Tactics, and Tactics dictate battleplans and maneuvers during a fight.

 

Put simply, a hypothetical: you're pushing your Rhinos up the board. You are facing, say, Tyranids. Rather than deepstrike a Mawloc under your Rhinos, they go after your Inceptors, if they're on the ground to reduce your offensive threat ability. Or, on the flip side, they go after your Rhinos to slow down your Objective Secured options.

 

What then?

 

That's fair, and I'll definitely try to keep my eyes open for that kind of situation (that is, actually seeing something going a different way; not that specific example), although I do acknowledge that I'm at best a middling player. I do, on the other hand, feel like one of the strengths of the list (and the general theory behind multiple, compartmentalised units with redundant threats) is that it can afford to absorb some losses (something which Marines in general tend to struggle with).

 

Pretty much all of the units are small/cheap enough to be throwaway, Bjorn is the single most expensive (and he's a tough cookie); the characters are all resilient enough to be a nuisance to remove/hit hard enough to give heavy things pause for thought; and all together there's enough mobility to be in mutual support range in a good radius (assuming a hard push up the middle, really only the board edges will be beyond reach). Hopefully I will get a game in on Tuesday and be able to provide a little bit more feedback about my general theory and see if it actually pans out even vaguely like how I think it might!

 

To give a little thought to your example, it'd be important to maintain mutual support integrity (ie, don't let the Inceptors get too far away from the core that I couldn't jump my characters/Bjorn out to put it back into the dirt in return!) - but even if they bite the dust, the list should have enough pieces to achieve goals without any one or two specific units (although some, like Bjorn, the RP and WL are all more important than the others). I'd be totally happy if a Mawloc popped up next to the Rhinos: that's basically a free turn of combat (thanks 6" HI!) to play whack-a-Nid

 

 

 

 

 

That's the idea!

 

Yep, that's exactly what I was hoping would be typed up. Plan to plan, and plan to change your plan once you settle on one! As it is, that group sounds pretty devastating in close formation, especially given how readily able most of the list can be lost if need be, to achieve the goal. The only question I have is this, then: what units do you sacrifice in order sequence, to keep your HQ's around? If you need to lose an HQ to get a mission objective card done, what are your considerations and options?

 

How would you, for lack of a better term, apply what I call Active Triage? As in, you are already dealing with losses, it's only a matter of time. In what order, based upon what priorities, guided by what battleplan, etc., guides your attempting to maximize your table top performance while also minimizing losses?

[Kallas]

That's the idea!

 

Yep, that's exactly what I was hoping would be typed up. Plan to plan, and plan to change your plan once you settle on one! As it is, that group sounds pretty devastating in close formation, especially given how readily able most of the list can be lost if need be, to achieve the goal. The only question I have is this, then: what units do you sacrifice in order sequence, to keep your HQ's around? If you need to lose an HQ to get a mission objective card done, what are your considerations and options?

 

How would you, for lack of a better term, apply what I call Active Triage? As in, you are already dealing with losses, it's only a matter of time. In what order, based upon what priorities, guided by what battleplan, etc., guides your attempting to maximize your table top performance while also minimizing losses?

I guess the answer is: it depends!

 

For losing HQs, the WGBL are the most disposable, being the most numerous and having the least individual utility. RP might be unnecessary, if they're not melee heavy and my vehicles have done their job in getting my stuff close.

 

If I need ObSec bodies to hold objectives for the missions, then my characters are running interference; if I need my characters to smash lots of big things, then vice versa. Maelstrom would be harder (league is ITC, just FYI), as those parameters can change turn to turn.

 

Hope that's not coming off as too theoryhammery, just trying to get a feel for what you're saying (and I do appreciate what you're saying - well, at least I hope I'm understanding it properly!)

[Karack Blackstone]

The idea is, to put it simply, what do you lose, and when, given casualties in WH40K are so likely, you might as well plan to face major losses?

 

I'm sorry if I seem to be consistently obtuse; the purpose of my line of thinking is to help you identify what you can afford to lose, and when, to win, or at least, do your best to get there.

[Kallas]

The idea is, to put it simply, what do you lose, and when, given casualties in WH40K are so likely, you might as well plan to face major losses?

 

I'm sorry if I seem to be consistently obtuse; the purpose of my line of thinking is to help you identify what you can afford to lose, and when, to win, or at least, do your best to get there.

No worries, I definitely understood that that was your intention! And that's absolutely a valuable thing to consider for each game. Against my last opponent, who was running Nidzilla, it could be useful to use some of my Grey Hunters as bait to try to lure in his Flyrants for Bjorn and the other characters to remove; but also need to deal with the Exocrine and Hive Guard, so maybe send some (empty) Rhinos across to draw fire and possibly ram them in melee.

 

So, just to see if I'm on the right track: basically try to analyse the opponent's list and see what's a threat to what, plan for the worst and see what I might need to sacrifice/what I can afford to sacrifice to achieve objectives. Is that the (not so long and) short of it?

[Karack Blackstone]

 

The idea is, to put it simply, what do you lose, and when, given casualties in WH40K are so likely, you might as well plan to face major losses?

 

I'm sorry if I seem to be consistently obtuse; the purpose of my line of thinking is to help you identify what you can afford to lose, and when, to win, or at least, do your best to get there.

No worries, I definitely understood that that was your intention! And that's absolutely a valuable thing to consider for each game. Against my last opponent, who was running Nidzilla, it could be useful to use some of my Grey Hunters as bait to try to lure in his Flyrants for Bjorn and the other characters to remove; but also need to deal with the Exocrine and Hive Guard, so maybe send some (empty) Rhinos across to draw fire and possibly ram them in melee.

 

So, just to see if I'm on the right track: basically try to analyse the opponent's list and see what's a threat to what, plan for the worst and see what I might need to sacrifice/what I can afford to sacrifice to achieve objectives. Is that the (not so long and) short of it?

 

 

Yes!

 

That has always been hard for me to consider, however with the growing lethality of the game, it makes sense to start use that metric and line of thinking, going forward.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

What thoughts do you all have as far as army level, hunt groups (packs in synergy support), and pack level strategies, tactics, and the wargear to get their chosen mission done?

 

My current list is running a lot of small units working in unison:

Battalion:

Wolf Lord (TH/SS, JP, Wulfen Stone, Warlord - Beastslayer)

Rune Priest (Sword, JP, Psychic Hood, Armour of Russ, Storm Caller, Tempest's Wrath)

Bjorn the Fell-handed (Twin Lascannon)

 

3 Bolter Inceptors

 

3x 5 Grey Hunters (B&C)

 

Rhino (2x SB)

Razorback (Twin Assault Cannon, SB)

 

Battalion:

3x WGBL (TH/SS, JP)

 

3x 5 Grey Hunters (B&C)

 

Rhino (2x SB)

Razorback (Twin AC, SB)

 

• Multiple small, basic Grey Hunter packs make them not particularly interesting targets, but they can still trim down quite a lot of GEQ-type models (on average, between shooting and charging, they'll kill 6-7); and then being MSU they can spread out to jump on isolated objectives without being particularly expensive.
• The transports can keep them safe, so that my objective grabbers don't get annihilated quickly (and means that the opponent needs to pop them before their anti-infantry weapons can come into play) - and with Storm Caller/Cloaked by the Storm they are pretty damn resilient in T1/2 (depending on what the opponent has/what the terrain is like). And the Rhinos can, of course, gum up overwatch to let my more important melee units get stuck in.
• The Razorbacks are, of course, solid infantry blenders with the ability to chip wounds off heavier things, plus they can benefit from Keen Senses and Bjorn is likely to stick around for the rerolls (unlike the Wolf Lord).
• The transports also help reduce drops to, to more likely gain the +1 to the start roll (generally more useful having the choice!)
• The Wolf Lord/Battle Leaders/Rune Priest death squad is really good. Beastslayer makes them pretty terrifying against vehicles/monsters that will go down fast, and against infantry/other non-vehicles/monsters the Hunters Unleashed means they'll be able to blender plenty of models while being resilient and mobile. The 6" Heroic Intervention is also brilliant. Some armies have very powerful melee threats (Genestealers, Gallants, etc), and the 6" HI bubble means that they can present themselves as charge deterrents (by being close enough to jump over things) but not so close that declaring charges against them is easy (which would keep them safer if they do intervene).
• The Rune Priest is great. Armour of Russ is amazing: with several powerful melee characters it's important that the opponent doesn't get to interrupt and potentially bring one down, and the AoR shuts that threat down instantly (as well as being hilarious when he and the rest of the death squad intervene, allowing them to pummel their target before it gets to go!), plus it gives him a great Invulnerable save. Storm Caller is brilliant, especially for the vehicles when they're shifting about the board.
• Bjorn is a monster. Enough said!
• Ok, so Bjorn brings a little bit of ranged firepower for those things trying to keep away from the death squad, as well as being his own terrifying deterrent for anything trying to close in on the transports; and his T8, character-protected 8W is a nice, solid defensive statline while Trueclaw is utterly brutal. But yeah, he's Bjorn.
• The Bolter Inceptors are a decent, pretty cheap little fire support unit that can just dart about stripping models out of horde units while being a reasonably low priority unit too.
• And of course, it's 13CP (after buying 1 Relic), so its got plenty to go around even with one or two uses of Cloaked by the Storm, which is pretty important, as Wolves do have some good uses for their CP (Honour the Chapter, Armour of Contempt, Only in Death, Seeking a Saga...)

 

Basically, I feel like basic, unequipped/minimally equipped units working en masse should work pretty well. Units can take quite a lot of upgrades, but that rapidly increases their cost while not really improving output by that much. Space Wolves have a lot of strength in their characters (and the character in my list above aren't actually that expensive, which lets me pack in a good amount of them!)

 

So yeah my general, basically untested, theory is:

• Minimalistic upgrades to keep a decent amount of bodies on the table
• Powerful, fast characters to get good use out of Hunters Unleashed (which is useful to throw off the opponent's plans and get more mileage out of them)
• Specialised units with a particular purpose (cheap GH packs for objective grabbing/horde trimming; melee heavy-hunting characters; resilient ammo-sponge vehicles; etc)

 

 

I hope to try out your idea on minimalistic GH squads one day. For now, to me minimum GH means at least a plasma gun. And now I'm trying to fit a power fist in each squad too.

[Karack Blackstone]

I'm planning on topping out my custom Logan Great Company at 30,000 points, so, please take this advice as just another way to view things, unless it will aid you.

 

The problem with 8th Ed. is that all SM squads in general do not appear to gain the benefit of having more bodies do anything other than provide more targets, and more of them flee later the more casualties that are actually taken. This reroll the morale die is okay, but, the usual And They Shall Know No Fear turning into, "You do not need to roll for further casualties in the Morale Phase," would only aid the entire Space Marine Chapters, and if need be, the Chaos Space Marine Legions, if that turns out to be fair.

 

The fact that a five man GH pack survives better than a ten man pack is actually rather sad. I mean, how? Anyway, other than the above idea, I do not have many clear thoughts on how to address this going forward.

 

As it is, if five man packs seem to become the much better option, I think that is a weakness of 8th Ed., however it must be dealt with on the table. So, five man packs might just need to be the way to go, which, is odd to type, to me. I get that the game is supposed to be more lethal; when and where is TOO lethal?

 

As far as my ideas of list building, the one major and drastic change I have left is seeing if I will drop some TWC from my list to try and fit in the two 18 total Jump Pack SkyClaw packs, with HQ and WGSL support. Should prove at the very least an interesting lesson in what not to do! If it does work, that might become a dedicated assault element for me. Even a seven TWC with six Frost Axes and 1 TH on the WGBL. with three TWC per two separate packs...

 

Still, there's a great deal of lessons to learn, going forward! By all means, weigh in with any possible lessons here and in other threads, as you encounter the concept!

[TiguriusX]

Adding a power armored WGPL and a storm shield to a GH pack can greatly increase their durability. TDAWG helps even more to catch small arms fire

 

If you roll hot the squad can be hard to remove

 

If you roll poorly it was an expensive failure

 

I think the best job for power armor is to dig in and hold (2+ in cover) while being moderately priced.

 

I rely on other units to push and draw heavy fire (dreads).

 

Still building my double battalion and need to field test aggressive power armored BCs to generate a lone wolf

[Karack Blackstone]

Adding a power armored WGPL and a storm shield to a GH pack can greatly increase their durability. TDAWG helps even more to catch small arms fire

 

If you roll hot the squad can be hard to remove

 

If you roll poorly it was an expensive failure

 

I think the best job for power armor is to dig in and hold (2+ in cover) while being moderately priced.

 

I rely on other units to push and draw heavy fire (dreads).

 

Still building my double battalion and need to field test aggressive power armored BCs to generate a lone wolf

 

My dice rolls are usually a waste, so, that PF/SS WGPL in PA sure seems to feel like I'm wasting my time, that's for sure!

 

As it is, yea, I think that's a rather harsh lesson I've had to face looking forward: Grey Hunters are the core line, the back line, and or the counterattack if the main push falters, and any GH packs are nearby to provide support, and then get back to their take and hold or hold and defend mission, regarding any single objective.

 

I have recently retooled my Logan GC to favor a specific loadout for each unit, just, all ten of my GH packs will have, and need, double PG's in each. Here's my default GH pack now:

 

Grey Hunter Pack

6 GH's, BG, BP, Chainsword

2 GH's with PG, BP, Chainsword

1 GHPL with Chainsword

1 WGPL with PF, SS

Rhino, 1 SB

 

While yes, expensive, the general ability to put on the hurt if need be and provide additional support to attacking elements when and where able seems to be pretty solid. That PA WG with a SS, wow, do I wish I could somehow give him +1 W without losing access to a Rhino to move the pack around. And I have ten of these monstrosities to manage, at least, I will, if I ever get a full size game in, and I do hope to, at some point.

 

As far as other assault elements, I am starting to learn to favor a dual BC pack with Wulfen support in the center. As in, running +=+ with each + being a BC pack, usually at 16, including 12 BC's, 1 BCPL, 1 WGPL, 1 WP, 1 WGBL each, either in a LRC or Stormwolf. The = is an eight strong Wulfen pack, with 5 TH/SS, 2 Frost Claws, and 1 Wulfen Leader with his default Frost Claws. Three LRC's and/or three Stormwolves dropping off that level of a lethal payload sounds fun!

 

Still, again, all of my final list is pretty expensive, and that's a pretty hefty points value to play at on the table(s).

 

One other thing: I am noticing that the Stormhawk with Skyhammer Missile Launcher, Icarus Stormcannon, and twin Assault Cannons for a pretty solid points total a meltabomb below 175 is really a great anti-air and air superiority dogfighter.

 

Edit; forgot to specify transports for the BC x 2 / Wulfen synergy hunt-packs.

[TiguriusX]

switch your PF from the WG to the regular PL

 

Same number of attacks and the WG becomes expendable with his shield and does his job better

 

*edit

 

i say that based on the investment you made in that unit. it doesn't look like a lone wolf generator but a combat pack that you want to last as long as possible.

 

small arms fire goes to redshirt GHs and plasma or other shots are hopefully tanked by SS

[Karack Blackstone]

switch your PF from the WG to the regular PL

 

Same number of attacks and the WG becomes expendable with his shield and does his job better

 

*edit

 

i say that based on the investment you made in that unit. it doesn't look like a lone wolf generator but a combat pack that you want to last as long as possible.

 

small arms fire goes to redshirt GHs and plasma or other shots are hopefully tanked by SS

 

Fair.

 

The only real problem is so many of them are already built and painted. Still, certainly, I will see if that is going to be a viable solution, long term. Certainly seems a rather worthwhile thought. I'm going to need to see about how that will work, and what weapon to give the WGPL then. I might just keep him with a Chainsword!

 

Edit:

 

Done. Now, just to get more bits and bodies to build into the new models... Sigh, the plasticrack habit, er, I mean, hobby, never stops!

 

Edit 2:

 

Wow, are no-hand Chainsword bits way too rare. The only real option I've found to make use of are the Forge World Chain Axes bit set:

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Chain-Axes

 

It's either these, or I cannibalize my Horus Heresy army and go with Chain Axes for that force. Makes a bit more sense, but, still, I already have some Chainswords on some of the models already built. Still, feedback please; which force, 30K or 40K, makes more sense to favor Chain Axes? The 40K force already has a LARGE number of chainswords on them already. The 30K Vlka does seem a decent option for Chain Axes, however, I'm unsure, as I do like the Chainsword look and all...

[Jackalwolf]

How do you think a list built around what I have until I finish my true scale grey hunters would fare? Would it be fun to play? To play against? I know anything including a Thunderhawk is not competitive but using PL rather than points I'm looking for a fun play.

 

- Arjac and 2x WG Cataphractii Terminators in a Thunderhawk

- Bjorn with lascannon and 5 Fenrisian wolves shield

- 5 Wulfen and 5 Fenrisian wolves shield

 

It's 100 PL on the spot, 5 CP and very few units!

[PeteySödes]

How do you think a list built around what I have until I finish my true scale grey hunters would fare? Would it be fun to play? To play against? I know anything including a Thunderhawk is not competitive but using PL rather than points I'm looking for a fun play.

 

- Arjac and 2x WG Cataphractii Terminators in a Thunderhawk

- Bjorn with lascannon and 5 Fenrisian wolves shield

- 5 Wulfen and 5 Fenrisian wolves shield

 

It's 100 PL on the spot, 5 CP and very few units!

 

You would need to table them essentially. Its be fun to run but competitively speaking in the knight meta that thunderhawk will get shredded, once thats down you'll have a tough go. I think itd be a blast in beerhammer games though!

[TiguriusX]

How do you think a list built around what I have until I finish my true scale grey hunters would fare? Would it be fun to play? To play against? I know anything including a Thunderhawk is not competitive but using PL rather than points I'm looking for a fun play.

 

- Arjac and 2x WG Cataphractii Terminators in a Thunderhawk

- Bjorn with lascannon and 5 Fenrisian wolves shield

- 5 Wulfen and 5 Fenrisian wolves shield

 

It's 100 PL on the spot, 5 CP and very few units!

i just started doing narrative games and you can probably enjoy it there. if people know that is basically the force from ashes of prospero they will love it

 

in a tournament ITC setting you wont have fun

[Karack Blackstone]

For lack of a better description, this is the Star Wars Death Star debacle, especially at 2,000 point or 100 PL games.

 

For the same points / PL as the Death Star, what else would you be able to fit into that force? Sure, you can run a Thunderhawk. The problem is, same as for any high value target, it's high value, until it dies. If you can make its points back and then some before it goes kaput, by all means, do so. Just realize, if a Flyer comes down, the models inside are in for a typically very squishy impact with the ground. And, to type it, the squish is them; if I recall correctly, the entire unit takes at least one mortal wound each.

 

TDA will live, but either you lose half of any given pack or all of your pack has one wound left. There's tradeoffs; for that Thunderhawk in terms of PL / points, what else would/could you run? All this is going along the same line of thinking as TiguriusX is operating from: in any form of competitive format, expect to get your entire list focus fired due to lack of target saturation on your part. Just also keep in mind, that the entire point of a force is to be fun to run, and give one a "fair" chance at winning. If you and your opponent are not using metal level lists, don't even worry.

 

Still, how do you plan to run that T'Hawk? If unable to return its combat value, there's a few ways to try and address that fix. The thing is, the only choice that matters will be yours, and the one you go with, each and every time something happens on the table.

 

Edit: Strike through text is wrong!

 

Thanks Thymidine, for the correction. Roll a d6, on a 6, the flier explodes. Then, roll a d6 again; on a 1, a model is slain from the passengers. Roll once for each model. And, the lovely part: the controlling player chooses which model is slain with each roll of 1.

[thymidine]

Just realize, if a Flyer comes down, the models inside are in for a typically very squishy impact with the ground. And, to type it, the squish is them; if I recall correctly, the entire unit takes at least one mortal wound each.

 

 

Nope, this edition a flyer crashing is just like any other vehicle. Roll a d6 for each model, on a 1, one model from inside is removed from play. You get to pick which one dies.

[Karack Blackstone]

 

Just realize, if a Flyer comes down, the models inside are in for a typically very squishy impact with the ground. And, to type it, the squish is them; if I recall correctly, the entire unit takes at least one mortal wound each.

 

Nope, this edition a flyer crashing is just like any other vehicle. Roll a d6 for each model, on a 1, one model from inside is removed from play. You get to pick which one dies.

 

 

Well, I'm wrong!

 

Okay, that's even better; still, target saturation can be an advantage, if led right.

[Armchairarbiter]

I believe the flyer explosion causes more damage than normal if it does explode. It has a longer range or something than normal I think called "crash and burn". But I could be wrong! 

[PeteySödes]

I believe the flyer explosion causes more damage than normal if it does explode. It has a longer range or something than normal I think called "crash and burn". But I could be wrong! 

 

Its just semantics, for most vehicles it seems like its based on the wounds. Ex. Stormfang/wolf, landraiders do d6 mortals while the stormhawk or rhino chasis do d3.

[Jackalwolf]

Now I want to crash my Thunderhawk into enemy lines in a final blaze of glory.