Think Tank: Hypothesizing SW Unit Combo's, Options, Etc.

[PeteySödes]

Now I want to crash my Thunderhawk into enemy lines in a final blaze of glory.

 

My friends on other side of our Adepticon team won a close game in the 11th hour specifically because his Shadowsword blew up and he rolled hot. Gutted the opponent who conceded almost immediately.

[TiguriusX]

Now I want to crash my Thunderhawk into enemy lines in a final blaze of glory.

 

That is a legitimate tactic used in competitive play

 

Most commonly used by Knight-Gallants who run into your lines and will be happy to stomp or explode through your lines

 

Some stratagems even let a player auto explode their vehicle

[Karack Blackstone]

Ah, 40k.

 

Instead of Sacrificial Lambs, we get Sacrificial Slaughter Lambs.

 

Heh. Still, d6 instead of d3 is both a function of the power of a model, as well as a chance to cause more casualties due to larger unit, more shrapnel, explosive potential...

 

Anyway, definitely a Wolfy thing to do when no other solution presents itself! Anyone know if a suicidal charge from a flyer or LRC might result in a parking lot pancake of what shot at it?

 

Edit:

 

Sorry. To be clear, is it possible to declare the charge for a flier into an enemy unit, let it get shot up, if it is going to explode, preferrably with nothing in it, can it be then crashed into the enemy's ranks? If it has passengers, and it's a 6 on a d6, followed by d6 mortal wounds, with that many models facing an, "On a 1 on a d6, the model is slain." Do people think what I am willing to call the Hostile Assault Delivery Method, HADM (not intended, but funny!)

 

Meh. Movement phase, hover, pile out the troops inside. Psychic phase, do shenanigans. Shooting phase, more shenanigans. Assault phase, send in the flier first, especially if it lacks a large number of wounds. If in hover or at the lowest value of movement, either way, it's 20" (twenty inches).

 

Is this a viable tactic? Please, by all means, pick this one apart! It's worth it just for the sheer middle finger to the enemy's face tactic it is, and the Wolves would certainly do it if the need arose!

[PeteySödes]

Nah I do it, they have to have a lot of firepower to take out the stormwolf AND the wulfen inside. My load has been 5 wulfen, 5 bloodclaws and a wolfpriest. If it’s wrecked any 1’s will remove he bloodclaws and even if they get lucky and kill the boat and wulfen I’m sure it means the rest of the force is ok.

 

That’s why I mused about trailing the thing with a JPRP for cover and possibly cloak. It has too many guns and awesomeness to intentionally run it into death but sometimes you have tosince the wulfen are typically going against the hard crunchy parts.

[Sturm Moonwolf]

When my fliers get beat up I try to manuever them close to the enemy so I can drop to hover mode, charge, and hope for an explosion. I run 3 in an air wing (2 stormfangs and 1 Stormwolf) so I get some pretty spectacular results from time to time.

 

Someone mentioned about using the cloak earlier, yes, it works very well. I try to avoid using it too much though due to the high cp cost however as my 2k list only has 9cps. Getting a tempest wrath off on my opponents key shooter is just a better way to do it overall imo.

[Kallas]

Getting a tempest wrath off on my opponents key shooter is just a better way to do it overall imo.

Why not both! :D

[Kallas]

My current list is running a lot of small units working in unison:

Battalion:

Wolf Lord (TH/SS, JP, Wulfen Stone, Warlord - Beastslayer)

Rune Priest (Sword, JP, Psychic Hood, Armour of Russ, Storm Caller, Tempest's Wrath)

Bjorn the Fell-handed (Twin Lascannon)

 

3 Bolter Inceptors

 

3x 5 Grey Hunters (B&C)

 

Rhino (2x SB)

Razorback (Twin Assault Cannon, SB)

 

Battalion:

3x WGBL (TH/SS, JP)

 

3x 5 Grey Hunters (B&C)

 

Rhino (2x SB)

Razorback (Twin AC, SB)

 

• Multiple small, basic Grey Hunter packs make them not particularly interesting targets, but they can still trim down quite a lot of GEQ-type models (on average, between shooting and charging, they'll kill 6-7); and then being MSU they can spread out to jump on isolated objectives without being particularly expensive.
• The transports can keep them safe, so that my objective grabbers don't get annihilated quickly (and means that the opponent needs to pop them before their anti-infantry weapons can come into play) - and with Storm Caller/Cloaked by the Storm they are pretty damn resilient in T1/2 (depending on what the opponent has/what the terrain is like). And the Rhinos can, of course, gum up overwatch to let my more important melee units get stuck in.
• The Razorbacks are, of course, solid infantry blenders with the ability to chip wounds off heavier things, plus they can benefit from Keen Senses and Bjorn is likely to stick around for the rerolls (unlike the Wolf Lord).
• The transports also help reduce drops to, to more likely gain the +1 to the start roll (generally more useful having the choice!)
• The Wolf Lord/Battle Leaders/Rune Priest death squad is really good. Beastslayer makes them pretty terrifying against vehicles/monsters that will go down fast, and against infantry/other non-vehicles/monsters the Hunters Unleashed means they'll be able to blender plenty of models while being resilient and mobile. The 6" Heroic Intervention is also brilliant. Some armies have very powerful melee threats (Genestealers, Gallants, etc), and the 6" HI bubble means that they can present themselves as charge deterrents (by being close enough to jump over things) but not so close that declaring charges against them is easy (which would keep them safer if they do intervene).
• The Rune Priest is great. Armour of Russ is amazing: with several powerful melee characters it's important that the opponent doesn't get to interrupt and potentially bring one down, and the AoR shuts that threat down instantly (as well as being hilarious when he and the rest of the death squad intervene, allowing them to pummel their target before it gets to go!), plus it gives him a great Invulnerable save. Storm Caller is brilliant, especially for the vehicles when they're shifting about the board.
• Bjorn is a monster. Enough said!
• Ok, so Bjorn brings a little bit of ranged firepower for those things trying to keep away from the death squad, as well as being his own terrifying deterrent for anything trying to close in on the transports; and his T8, character-protected 8W is a nice, solid defensive statline while Trueclaw is utterly brutal. But yeah, he's Bjorn.
• The Bolter Inceptors are a decent, pretty cheap little fire support unit that can just dart about stripping models out of horde units while being a reasonably low priority unit too.
• And of course, it's 13CP (after buying 1 Relic), so its got plenty to go around even with one or two uses of Cloaked by the Storm, which is pretty important, as Wolves do have some good uses for their CP (Honour the Chapter, Armour of Contempt, Only in Death, Seeking a Saga...)

 

Basically, I feel like basic, unequipped/minimally equipped units working en masse should work pretty well. Units can take quite a lot of upgrades, but that rapidly increases their cost while not really improving output by that much. Space Wolves have a lot of strength in their characters (and the character in my list above aren't actually that expensive, which lets me pack in a good amount of them!)

 

So yeah my general, basically untested, theory is:

• Minimalistic upgrades to keep a decent amount of bodies on the table
• Powerful, fast characters to get good use out of Hunters Unleashed (which is useful to throw off the opponent's plans and get more mileage out of them)
• Specialised units with a particular purpose (cheap GH packs for objective grabbing/horde trimming; melee heavy-hunting characters; resilient ammo-sponge vehicles; etc)

 

So in my previous post (above) I was planning to use a list based around a core of multiple small squads of basic Grey Hunters with specialised units (Bjorn, Wolf Lord, Battle Leaders, etc) for tackling various units.

 

On Saturday I got to play a game against Dark Eldar:

Battalion: Kabal of the Obsidian Rose

Archon (Blaster, possibly Venom Blade - just sat in the Raider all game, so not sure!)

Archon (Blaster, Helm of Spite for one Deny attempt)

 

3x 5 Kabalite Warriors (Blaster - all in the Venoms)

1x 9 Kabalite Warriors (Blaster - in the Raider)

 

3x Venom (1 Cannon, 1 Twin Rifle)

1x Raider (Disintegrator, Splinter Racks)

 

Battalion: Cult of Strife

Lelith Hesperax (Warlord trait through stratagem - Blood Dancer)

Succubus (Agoniser/Triptych Whip, Arcite Glaive, not sure which Combat Drug)

 

2x 5 Wyches (not sure which Combat Drugs they had, mostly irrelevant I think)

1x 20 Wyches (Blast Pistol, Agoniser, 1x Shardnet and Impaler, 2x Hydra Gauntlets; +1 Attack Drug)

 

1x11 Reavers (Agoniser, 3x Blaster, 3x Grav Talon, +1 Toughness Drug)

 

Spearhead: Kabal of the Black Heart

Archon (Warlord - Labyrinthine Cunning, Writ of the Living Muse, maybe a Blaster, not sure!)

 

3x Ravager (triple Disintegrators)

 

Writing the list out in Battlescribe, it appears to be about 46pts over 1750, so I'll bring that up with my opponent, but not sure it made much difference in the end!

 

This is a pretty brutal list, but my opponent is taking it to a tournament later this month so wanted some table time, and I don't mind cutting my teeth on a competitive list, but it is a nasty list.

 

We were using ITC Missions, and we rolled and got Mission 5: Precious Cargo with Frontline Assault deployment.

 

Space Wolf Secondaries:

Big Game Hunter (those Ravagers need to go down ASAP, so might as well get points for them!)

Butcher's Bill (there's a lot of relatively fragile units that I figure that I can smash apart in sequence, so hopefully achievable)

Old School (a couple of small objective squatting Wych squads should give me First Strike easily; his Warlord is important to bring down and will be near the Ravagers so should be fairly easy to reach; Linebreaker and Last Strike depend on how the game goes, but I believe I have the resilience to last until the end)

 

Dark Eldar Secondaries:

Headhunter (lots of characters so a clear choice)

Big Game Hunter (Rhinos and Razorbacks, plus possibly Bjorn, so a good choice)

Recon (super fast army that likes to spread out, another solid choice)

 

Deployment happens and I get the +1 thanks to my transports (all Grey Hunters embarked just in case I lose the roll). My list is deployed mostly central with my characters all central and near to my Razorbacks to protect from any potential melee tying up; Inceptors in Deep Strike. He deploys reasonably widely spread, Ravagers around his Black Heart Warlord and with the big Wych blob in the Webway.

 

I snag first turn, thanks to the +1 (we both rolled a 6!) and he fails to seize.

 

Space Wolves T1

So, my Rhinos advance up, getting ahead of the Razorbacks. One Razorback moves to get LOS on a small Wych squad to grab First Strike. Two GH units jump out to hold some objectives (one getting cover in a forest on my Priority Objective). Characters move up to follow the leading Rhino but protected by it.

 

Psychic: I successfully cast Storm Caller, but Cloaked by the Storm is cancelled by Agents of Vect (because of course, urgh). Tempest's Wrath fails.

 

Shooting: This does not start well. I begin with Bjorn shooting at a Ravager. He puts Lightning Fast Reflexes on it for -1 to hit, and I in turn use Keen Senses to ignore it (which he doesn't AoV). Unfortunately he wiffs hits shots (2 1s to hit, rolled into a 1 and a 5; he then promptly makes his invulnerable save). The Razorback that moved up easily annihilates the Wych squad grabbing my First Strike for Old School. Nothing else is a particularly good target, so I put shots into his Reavers, causing a mighty zero damage. Yay.

 

Not a great opening turn.

 

Dark Eldar T1

Here they come. Reavers advance and use Eviscerating Fly-By to cause two Mortal Wounds to my Wolf Lord (because it can pick out characters just fine, apparently!). Succubus darts up the centre intending to kill my foremost WGBL. Venoms dart about.

 

Shooting: Here comes the pain. Ravagers cause a ridiculous amount of damage, because they're stupid. The moving Razorback is killed, as is one of the Rhinos (2 for BGH already) and several wounds are put on to the other vehicles, with one GH dying as they get out. A couple more GH die to huge volleys of splinter fire, but thankfully they hold.

 

Charge: his Succubus charges in but gets Intervened on by the RP and both of the other WGBLs, all of whom are within 3" of the WL! Bjorn also Intervenes on the Reavers, who were within 6"! Huzzah!

 

Fight: The Reavers lose...two. Bjorn hit and wounded with all five attacks, but rolled 1, 1, 2, 1, 1 for damage..! He then made 2 Inured to Pain saves to really cap it off! Fortunately the Succubus does get properly smeared across the battlefield by 12 Thunder Hammer attacks. Unfortunately, the Reavers pile in/consolidate into my remaining Razorback to prevent it from firing next turn.

 

Morale: My GH have to roll, but thankfully none lose any.

 

Round 1 Score:

SW: 3 - DE: 5

I got First Strike, Killed one and Hold 1.

He got 2 Big Game Hunter, Killed one and Hold 1, but we drew on killing/holding.

 

Space Wolves T2

So, not a great first round. The remaining Rhino moves up, with one unit of GH dropping out to help Bjorn out against the Reavers. The Razorback falls back and pops smoke. Death Squad jumps forward behind the Rhino ready to charge in on the Ravagers. Inceptors drop down to shoot up the other small Wych squad holding his Precious Cargo, because that's potentially more points.

 

Psychic: Smite goes off against a Ravager, but only causes one wound. Tempest's Wrath fails again.

 

Shooting: Not much. I chuck grenades at the Smite-d Ravager, but do nothing. A few bolt rounds go into Venoms and do nothing. Inceptors annihilate the Wyches easily.

 

Charge: Rhino charges one Ravager, taking I think 2 wounds in overwatch but successfully reaching it. WGBL #1 charges the damaged Ravager, making it safely; WGBL #2 charges both locked in ones and the Warlord, reaching only the damaged one; WGBL #3 multi-charges everything there, taking no wounds and reaching the damaged and the last unlocked Ravager. RP charges the Warlord; Wolf Lord multi-charges everything, going to the damaged one to try and trigger Beastslayer. GH charge the Reavers.

 

Fight: RP locks out the Archon. Warlord crushes his Ravager and consolidates into the Warlord. WGBL #3 then piles in to his secondary target and kills it (thanks to Beastslayer and the Wulfen Stone). Unfortunately for me, it explodes. Great. It cause a bunch of damage, including 1 (thankfully, even with a CP reroll) to my Warlord, but three to WGBL #1.

 

GH squad kills off a Reaver; Archon kills my Warlord (gah!) but I pop Only In Death (not AoV'd!) and he manages to crush the Archon in return, at least it's a good death! WGBL #2 damages but fails to kill his Ravager, even after Honour the Chapter (with Beastslayer and Jarl of Fenris off the table, he missed two attacks [one after a reroll] and failed one wound roll on a 2!), degraded by one profile only; RP fails to breach the Shadowfield. Bjorn kills another three Reavers; Reavers kill one GH.

 

Well, a mixed bag of a turn, really! Got some decent points, but I'm pretty overextended (because those Ravagers just simply cannot be allowed to continue volleying things off the table) and my characters are all quite banged up and vulnerable to mass firepower.

 

Dark Eldar T2

Venoms continue darting about, one poised to take one of my objectives, and another hovering near my Precious Cargo one. Lelith and the Raider come up towards my character blob. The remaining Ravager falls back, ready to shoot because Fly... Big Wych blob drops down near my Precious Cargo objective.

 

Shooting: Ravager easily obliterates my Inceptors. Disintegrators are dumb. Between the Splinter Racks on the Raider and the Blasters inside, they shoot down two of the WGBLs. Rhino takes more damage, Razorback is dropped a profile. My non-PC objective unit is destroyed (came down to one 3+ save for the Pack Leader to survive; because he's a Space Marine, he naturally failed).

 

Charge: Lelith charges boths of my remaining characters. Wych blobs rerolls their charge for an 11" charge, just reaching my GH PC squad.

 

Fight: Lelith gets locked out by Armour of Russ. Wyches annihilate the GH squad and take my PC objective. Bjorn crushes some more Reavers, and casualties take him out of combat. GH and Reavers duke it out some more, and they're down to 3 left.

 

Lelith vs the RP and WGBL: she takes a beating (she chose +1 Strength for her ability) but survives on 1 wound left thanks to Inured to Suffering....urgh!! He then happily slaughters the RP.

 

Not good.

 

Round Two Score:

SW: 8 - DE: 15

I got Butcher's Bill, Slay the Warlord, as well as kill one, hold one (on my turn)

He got three from Headhunter, Recon again as well as all five primaries!

 

Not going well, my Marines are just dying like flies.

 

Space Wolves T3

So, got to do something. Bjorn's been freed up through casualty removal so comes back to deal with the huge Wych blob. The remaining Grey Hunters jump out of their respective vehicles, with one helping out Bjorn and the other taking my opponent's PC objective. Rhino moves up a little but can't shield that unit from his Raider.

 

Shooting: Bjorn, the GH and the Razorback kill 7 Wyches, with the Lascannons doing sweet all against the Venom. The Rhino, somehow, manages to bring down the Ravager which was only on three wounds! Something good happened! Thankfully it doesn't blow up.

 

Charge: Bjorn and his GH buddies charge the Wyches, with Bjorn making a cheeky 11" charge around the forest to make his pile in/consolidate moves very difficult (due to his special weapon placement, he had one Hydra Gauntlet near the GH, but the others much further back).

 

Fight: GH go first (in case he interrupts), killing a good few Wyches; Bjorn murders only a couple more (because 4++). WGBL causes three wounds on Lelith, but she passes all of her invulnerables and in return she slaughters him. Wyches kill no GH (yay 4+ save...) and do nothing to Bjorn. Reavers and GH fight some, not much happens.

 

Morale: Wyches lose 7, down to only his Hekatrix! They'd lost 12 through shooting and melee, and he'd spent down below 2 (passing a save with Lelith) so he couldn't use Insane Bravery on them! First time I've ever seen Morale be useful against anyone that wasn't Space Marines!

 

Well, couldn't do a huge amount, but didn't do awfully, all things considered!

 

Dark Eldar T3

Things are going badly for me: he still has all three Venoms, his Raider, Lelith and a couple of other bits. His Reavers fall back ready to shoot up my Razorback, as do the Venoms. His Hekatrix falls back to within 3" of my PC, but is currently outnumbered by my GH.

 

Shooting: Oh dear. My Rhino gets torn up by a couple of Blasters and dies; my GH on his PC get splinter fired to death (about 8 saves with 5 fails. Sigh). My GH on my PC survive...until my Razorback gets Blaster'd to death and promptly explodes, killing off my remaining GH there. Sigh.

 

Charge/Fight: there's basically nothing left to charge. At this point only Bjorn is alive.

 

Round 3 Score:

SW: 13 - DE: 23

So, I did score on his Precious Cargo, as well as killing and holding one, and killing off his Ravager for my third BGH, but it's too little too late.

He maxed out his BGH (HH being maxed last turn) and gets another for Recon, as well as max for the Primaries again.

 

We call the game here because it's impossible for me to win: in a proper ITC game he spends the remaining turns just scoring 3 to my maybe 1 or 2 (if I can kill a nearby unit and take back my nearby objective).

 

So, after game thoughts:

• I got pumped: HARD. Seriously, what the  were they thinking making Disintegrator Ravagers that good for that cheap?! I mean, I'm sure they're going to get toned down soon, but still! They are ridiculously effective!
• Anyway, back to Space Wolves stuff: the characters are pretty awesome and lethal. Although overall they didn't actually make their points back, and didn't actually achieve much in total they are still a scary group. They can smash through vehicles well and are respectively tough. They did go down pretty easily once they were properly exposed, which is an issue (at the end of the day they're still only T4/3++) but they put the fear of Russ into the opponent. Against appropriately costed units they'll probably be fine.
• Bjorn was solid; he took many Blaster shots over the game, but his 5+ FNP was great (helped by my opponent's low damage rolls) and he was easily pumping out 5 wounding hits each fight phase (even if his damage rolls let me down a bit). His Twin Lascannon was quite disappointing, but he did only fire it twice (and also rolled badly).
• Grey Hunters...eh. They're still Marines so they die far too quickly, but they have a decent output for 65pts. When they got a good target like the Wych blob they did good work (I think they killed 8 to Bjorn's 4) and if they hadn't been blown up by the Razorback there was a good chance that they'd have weathered the incoming Splinter fire thanks to 2+ in cover.
• Razorbacks/Rhino; still feel like they're subpar compared to pretty much everyone elses' tranports, but they're decent and not too expensive all told. The Rhinos are solid for getting troops to places and they're really nice for eating some overwatch. The Twin AC Razorbacks are, as we all know, legitimately good and Keen Senses can help them against annoying targets and to keep pace with the Rhinos.
• Armour of Russ was golden, again. Storm Caller helped (at least one Blaster shot was saved thanks to it!) and was useful against the Splinter fire into the post-destruction disembarked GH; definitely a good power. Tempest's Wrath suffered from bad luck (haven't gotten it off in either game so far, simply due to bad dice/good Deny dice!) so, again, going to hold off on judgement,
• WGBLs are solid, although at 3A base they do suffer from bad luck more than a cheaper unit would, but they do a lot of damage when they're part of the death squad.
• Beastslayer/Wulfen Stone Wolf Lord is awesome. I got unlucky with his saves (on 2W left, I failed 4 of 6 saves, which was nuts!) but his presence secured the death of two of the Ravagers (and the Archon through Only In Death!). He's a champion.
• Hunters Unleashed is an excellent ability, and gave me multiple extra fight phases/saved units that otherwise could/would have been crushed (the Succubus's banzai charge got utterly shut down, and that gave me a little bit of a slingshot forward towards his Ravagers - that extra distance is not to be understated). Bjorn also got to kill some extra Reavers (although bad luck saw less fall than should have). The +1 to hit is also really potent, as those Thunder Hammers hitting at WS2+ is sooo much better than 3+, and Beastslayer makes up for the comparable Red Thirst on the Blood Angels against the targets it's important to wound (ie, vehicles/monsters).

Overall, a not great game for feedback, as there were a lot of important dice swings (lots of disproportionately failed saves; low damage rolls; lots of passed saves/FNPs on my opponent's side); etc) but it has reinforced some of my previous points/beliefs. I am definitely glad that I traded out the massively expensive upgraded squads though, as those squads would have achieved very little and been very easy to slaughter.

 

Hopefully I will have a game on Tuesday too, and hopefully it won't be so lop sided!

[NightHowler]

Wow. Great batrep Kallas!!! Thanks!

[Karack Blackstone]

So, along the similar lines to my 10 strong Grey Hunter pack with 10 total, 1 GHPL with BG, BP, PF now, 1 WGPL with CS/BP, 2 GH's with PG's, BP, CS, and finally 6 GH's with BG, BP, CS

 

I also have a standard Blood Claw pack, featuring the somewhat more normal 1WGPL with BP/PF, 1 BCPL with BP/CS, 12 BC's stock, 1 WGBL BP/CS, 1 WP CA/BP (CA = Crozius Arcanum).

 

What I'm wondering, more for the general options approach, are your "default" pack setups, combinations of HQ/WGPL and GH/BC/SkC/SwC/etc. that you are finally settling on?

 

For trying to generate Lone Wolves, yes, a small-ish BC or GH pack with minimal/no upgrades taken, or, if so inclined, the Lone Wolf option from the Index is still viable. If the Index LW was updated by last year's CA 2017, by all means, use that entry.

 

Still, what are people currently finding to be their pillars? As in, what are the, "I cannot fight as I do without (x)." Please provide feedback, all; I'm pretty sure I and many others can benefit from both the new meta paradigm as well as how you and others are adjusting based upon feedback to others outside full context of any given individual's current context.

 

My GH pack needing the PF/SS WGPL changed over to CS/SS and the GHPL going from BG, BP, CS to BG, BP, PF. Things like that; what is/are your current must have/s?

 

Edit:

 

Kallas, I hope you had fun, and at that, a blast! What did you learn? What would you try differently? How, and what, might you adjust to try and get a fun win? I realize MSU can be very powerful if run right; would you ever run more per Troops pack, or do they just drop too fast? Either way is fine; I just want to know your line of thinking in terms of list building, list theory, your strategies, order of strategic operations, tactics, when to use which tactics, and, logistics (wargear choices).

 

Edit 2:

 

I am starting to reread this thread a little. As a consideration, if I ever manage to fit Wolf Scouts into my lists, I would seriously consider the nearly needed use of a Land Speeder Storm for a ride. If so, it helps to make a mobile harasser pack, because even five roving BG's is going to tear up light troops. If not, then have just have a plan for what you need them to do.

 

And, the fun part: as far as the Stormhawk goes, I typed up elsewhere, but I will make sure it gets seen, as I am in need of feedback as well.

 

Stormhawk

Option 1: Skyhammer Missile Launcher, Icarus Stormcannon, twin Assault Cannons.

Option 2: Las-Talon, Typhoon Missile Launcher, twin Assault Cannons.

 

For each role, the former being anti air, and the latter being ground support, the ground support role is more expensive, but, due to the points difference, along with what the ground support brings, I just wonder if it's a possibly too expensive but highly mobile Land Speeder Typhoon? The LSP is pretty solid, but about half the price. Unlike the Stormhawk, no LS can ever fit both a single AsC along with a TML. the Stormhawk can do not only a TML, but two AsC and still has a two shot per turn half range Lascannon for anti-armor. With the TML, it can dual role as anti-light infantry, or, with the twin Krak Missiles, do a decent backup shot to anti-armor.

[Kallas]

Still, what are people currently finding to be their pillars? As in, what are the, "I cannot fight as I do without (x)." Please provide feedback, all; I'm pretty sure I and many others can benefit from both the new meta paradigm as well as how you and others are adjusting based upon feedback to others outside full context of any given individual's current context.

Personally I think transported troops are a must, be they Grey Hunters or Blood Claws (I really like that they're very much 'personal preference' rather than one being better or worse). Having a solid core of boots on the ground, and ones capable of actually killing enemy hordes at that, are absolutely necessary for objective control and having transports give them the mobility to stay relevant as a battle develops.

 

I'd also say that powerful characters are a must, preferably with Jump Packs. They could fill in as anti-tank (Thunder Hammers and Saga of the Beastslayer have been excellent) or anti-infantry (Lords/Battle Leaders with Wolf Claws and Saga of the Wolfkin could be really solid), but having them gives a list a lot of power that isn't necessarily easily neutralised. Hunters Unleashed is seriously powerful and gives Space Wolf characters a lot more teeth (pun not intended!) when it comes to achieving their given role.

 

Kallas, I hope you had fun, and at that, a blast! What did you learn? What would you try differently? How, and what, might you adjust to try and get a fun win? I realize MSU can be very powerful if run right; would you ever run more per Troops pack, or do they just drop too fast? Either way is fine; I just want to know your line of thinking in terms of list building, list theory, your strategies, order of strategic operations, tactics, when to use which tactics, and, logistics (wargear choices).

It was a fine game, lots of cool moments (such as Bjorn just tanking Blaster shots, and my Wolf Lord going hulk on the Archon as his last act!) just with a lot of disappointment with some of the balance of the game (such as Power Armoured Marines being just too damn fragile, and Ravagers being far too cheap/effective). Overall it was definitely not a bad game, and was good for learning from some of my mistakes! We also didn't have the best terrain for it, but c'est la vie!

 

As for learning, different tactics/options, etc:

• It reinforced my decision to take multiple transports. I think if I had the models I would potentially try to take some more Grey Hunters and Rhinos/Razorbacks, possibly dropping the Inceptors and maybe Bjorn; although Bjorn was excellent and just didn't get much opportunity to shine against his preferred targets (ie, big nasties).
• I could be tempted into running more Grey Hunter packs, but honestly I think that needs to wait for the FAQ/CA for them (and all PA Marines) to become better: they're simply too easy to kill. T4/3+ is not nearly as good as GW initially thought, so they're not resilient enough/not cheap enough. Grey Hunters, though, compared to other PA Marine bodies are absolutely the best Troops. Non-SW Scouts are good for their infiltration, but Grey Hunters are excellent (in terms of PA Marines, that is! I'd much rather have Fire Warriors as my Troops, currently, as they're just better at doing their job given their cost, but Marines are my one true love!)
• I definitely learned that Agents of Vect is a completely bull :cuss stratagem: something of that magnitude of power should either be available to everyone (maybe a 4CP stratagem of command disruption that anyone can use) or be far more restricted in when/how it can be used (such as restricting it to once per game, and/or making the d6 roll not rerollable). It's a problem when there are some armies that can throw down lots of super powerful stratagem combos on powerful units, such as the Loyal 32 spamming stratagems for powerful Knights, but AoV severely hurts pure armies more than them already. Sorry, getting a little bit ranty/off point...

 

For more SW specific stuff:

• Grey Hunter packs absolutely need some transports. Marines are extremely fragile (which is stupid, but that is the way they are currently) and will be slaughtered easily without the protective shell of a Rhino/Razorback. Rhinos are fairly reasonably costed (I'd love to see them drop to 60-65pts base though) and Razorbacks bring some much needed heavy weaponry (Twin AC are always solid; Twin LC are good for if you're lacking anti-tank elsewhere in your list). At their core, Grey Hunters are a good workhorse unit: they just need to get where they're needed. I do feel that my choice of completely bare bones units was the right call: if I had held on to my previous list (3 units of 10 GH with 2 Plas/Combi-Plas) my Grey Hunters would have achieved less than these did while being a much bigger drain on resources. Space Marine upgrades are extremely expensive and with little value return on them.
• Tactics-wise, I feel like a good solid forward-moving core will work well for Space Wolves. Drive your bodies into the heart of the enemy's strongest units to eliminate them (eg, the Thunder Hammer Death Squad into my opponent's Ravager firebase) and tear out their heart before spreading out to eliminate the rest. It's important to keep units in reasonable supporting range. In my game I definitely let my forces get strung out quite a lot: Bjorn should have been advancing up with the Death Squad, and my Razorbacks were quite static too, and I feel like if I had kept my armour closer together and more in support of my characters I may have been able to hold on longer and possibly close the victory point gap later in the game (although a huge problem I had early game was, 1) AoV shutting down CbtS and, 2) Ravagers being broken as :cuss)
• If I were to iterate on the list, I would probably look at getting some stronger long ranged guns in the list. My opponent's Venoms were operating with basically full impunity, as most of the time all I could muster to target them were Bjorn's Twin LC and some Bolters. The TLC doesn't have a great volume of fire, which means the innate negative to hit and the 5++ make it dodgy as to whether it will bring them down quickly. The Inceptors weren't particularly useful (but again, Ravagers... Against Guard, they'd be massively more useful, able to bully isolated squads of Guardsmen with relatively little threat) and could potentially be used to up-gun the Rhinos into more Twin AC/LC Razorbacks for additional ranged firepower; or possibly turn them into an Axe/Shield Wulfen Dreadnought, although I'd prefer something like a Twin LC Chaplain Dreadnought for backline protection while Bjorn goes off a-murdering, but that's more expensive.
• The character Death Squad is potent but fragile. The 3++ helps when warding off low volume/high AP+D, but sheer volume of fire (such as massed Splinter Fire) will cut through them quickly. Storm Caller helps, as that brings them all to a 2+ save, which is certainly good especially when paired with character protection, but they need low level troop support. In that game I feel like I should maybe have dropped my Grey Hunters out of the Rhino before the charge into the Ravagers, so that they could provide character protection and to take some of the heat off my characters a little, but I'm not fully convinced that would have helped much.
• Overall, I feel like my general principle is a good foundation, but I need some more work on my execution. the vehicles need to be pushing up in unison, and my Grey Hunters need to be getting into the squishy parts of my opponent's army ASAP.

Hopefully that helps, let me know if you have any other questions! As long as they are useful, I will continue to write up my thoughts for you all to have a look over (it also helps me process and refine my thought process, so hopefully they're not annoying  )

[Karack Blackstone]

Kallas, sweet writeup! And you did a perfectly fine job on self reflection, too!

 

As far as your ideas, by all means, that's the entire point of this thread! One cannot easily know if any ideas are worthy or not, so, please, by all means, drop them by and those that choose to weigh in will give your the best answer that they can right now. Just don't be surprised that as the thread continues to grow, more and more ideas might drop by, and change what each of us is thinking happens to be our new meta paradigm, or at the very least, challenge it!

[Kallas]

Stormhawk

Option 1: Skyhammer Missile Launcher, Icarus Stormcannon, twin Assault Cannons.

Option 2: Las-Talon, Typhoon Missile Launcher, twin Assault Cannons.

 

For each role, the former being anti air, and the latter being ground support, the ground support role is more expensive, but, due to the points difference, along with what the ground support brings, I just wonder if it's a possibly too expensive but highly mobile Land Speeder Typhoon? The LSP is pretty solid, but about half the price. Unlike the Stormhawk, no LS can ever fit both a single AsC along with a TML. the Stormhawk can do not only a TML, but two AsC and still has a two shot per turn half range Lascannon for anti-armor. With the TML, it can dual role as anti-light infantry, or, with the twin Krak Missiles, do a decent backup shot to anti-armor.

 

I find Stormhawks to be a bit too expensive for what they actually achieve. Cheap is best route. Stormcannon and Heavy Bolters are probably the best, as the Typhoon unfortunately is just too expensive for its output (sadly, like all Marines Missile Launchers; and I say this as the owner of two Stormhawks with Typhoons!). The Assault Cannons are really the money makers for the Hawk, which is kind of sad as the Razorback can do essentially the same job; a price drop for it is really needed (it takes two Stormcannon/Typhoon Hawks two turns to drop a single IG Valkyrie! It's crazy!), but it can do a decent number on infantry, the main issue being that that means it's a lot of points spent to do something ok, when you can spend a similar amount on two Razorbacks, who'll do the same job but with transport capacity for shielding Grey Hunters/Blood Claws/Wolf Guard.

 

Land Speeders are in the same boat, really. They can do ok when kitted out reasonably cheaply (2xHB/AC) and can kill infantry fairly well. One thing that Land Speeders do ok at is flying forward, shooting something up and then charging something relatively puny (such as a Heavy Weapon team or other small, backfield unit like Kabalites or Guardians that will likely not threaten it in melee, or even just driving up to a Leman Russ to stop it shooting!) to both tie it up in combat and to potentially protect it from being shot at later. They are still very expensive for what they do, though (they're Marine things, of course they're too expensive!). The Hawk is significantly tougher than the Speeder though, with innate Hard to Hit as well as T7 and Infernum Halo Launchers for the rerolls for saves of 1, which is pretty handy (especially against huge Fire Warriors blobs that launch a million S5 shots at you!)

 

Ultimately, they're not awful, but do not expect them to actually threaten vehicles (except for Dark Eldar ones; I kind of wish I'd had my two birds on Saturday!), and don't expect them to make their points back. Their best targets are things like Vanguard Veterans, Death Company, etc; things with Fly without an innate -1, or relatively expensive and fragile things like Venoms, Star/Skyweavers. Space Wolf Hawks are probably the best Hawks, actually, considering access to Keen Senses: a lot of decent targets (like Venoms) are potentially -1/-2 to hit from innate modifiers/the moving Heavy penalty, so Keen Senses cancelling that out will help considerably, making them that much more effective!

 

Hmm...now I want to try them out again! Just, yeah, be warned that they are expensive for what they tend to achieve, but definitely try them out.

 

+++

 

On a similar note, about an expensive unit: I know that Wulfen are an iconic Space Wolf unit and they can certainly do a lot of damage, but they are very expensive and still relatively fragile (they're ultimately just two Scouts with an FNP). How have people been finding them? I've seen a few lists in the Army List subforum running a lot of Wulfen and Stormwolves/fangs which, to me, seems like a lot of eggs in one or two baskets. Are they really that effective? How resilient are they, and do they tend to die quickly but kill a lot, or do they kill one thing and then get shot up?

 

Edit:

Karack: How have your Skyclaws been faring, by the way? I know you've mentioned them before, have you managed to get any table time with them yet?

[TiguriusX]

If wulfen reach their target in melee they reliably kill it

 

Target will either die after Wulfens initial attack or strike back and kill wulfen triggering the death frenzy and then die from those attacks

[Karack Blackstone]

Kallas, no, sadly.

 

I have not yet. I also will need to rework my list in terms of points total to squeeze the two Skyclaws packs up to 15 bodies in each. It's an unclear option right now; the Codex entry for the actual unit lists 15 max before the WGSL, while the points per model section caps out at 10.

 

Outside of that, mostly, my packs need better synergy on my part to deliver more bodies reliably into the fight. I tend to run my transports in single file lines until they get close enough to fan out and become a wall. The problem is, as I usually keep so many Grey Hunter packs back to guard the backfield, and, almost always alone, I need to fix this, and go with full push and multi-unit pile outs and charges if able, or, if not, rapid fire and if the enemy does not charge, fire BP's the next turn for whatever hopefully lives and then go in!

 

Still, that Skyclaw pack sounds like an absolute terror if run right. The points total is a bit high, but, a single three strong TWC pack with Frost Axe and Storm Shield each in escort, with the 18 JP unit coming up behind seems like a pretty decently reliable delivery system. The TWC tank the whole way in, and try to provide enough target blocking that if the PA force is shot at through them, the PA unit in total is rolling on a base 2+ save due to being effectively behind cover.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Now I want to crash my Thunderhawk into enemy lines in a final blaze of glory.

 

LOL, this actually happened in the novel Blood of Asaheim.

 

Don't ask me why, seven Grey Hunters sent alone to defend a Sororitas world. In the end, as a last ditch attempt to thin the besiegers (which included some Death Guard), the youngest of the pack who was only just promoted from Blood Claw, piloted the damaged and malfunctioning Thunderhawk straight into the besiegers, to the utter fury of the oldest member of the group, who was technically a long fang yet preferred to stay behind and liked piloting the thunderhawk.

 

paraphrasing from the book here:

 

".... the defenders surged forward. And for the first time, one of the pack ran faster than the rest towards the downed Thunderhawk. It was the oldest, running and raging with a fury he hadn't felt for centuries.

 

"He crashed it, my baby! Blood of Russ, I WILL FLAY HIM!"

 

 

Sorry, a bit OOP but this just evoked a good memory of the story, although the novel was meh in the end.

[Karhedron]

Looking at Skyclaws, rather than big units, I am wondering if multiple MSU squads are better. More PFs and THs on the SCPL and WGPL, more opportunities for Lone Wolves and less vulnerable to Morale. They can operate together if needed or split up to attack multiple targets if necessary.

 

I play BAs as my other Marine army so I am used to running fairly big JP squads. Death Company and Sanguinary guard benefit from biggish squads to maximise the value of stratagems and buffs. But Skyclaws don't really need stratagems as much as BAs so MSU feels like it might be a better approach for them.

[Karack Blackstone]

Looking at Skyclaws, rather than big units, I am wondering if multiple MSU squads are better. More PFs and THs on the SCPL and WGPL, more opportunities for Lone Wolves and less vulnerable to Morale. They can operate together if needed or split up to attack multiple targets if necessary.

 

I play BAs as my other Marine army so I am used to running fairly big JP squads. Death Company and Sanguinary guard benefit from biggish squads to maximise the value of stratagems and buffs. But Skyclaws don't really need stratagems as much as BAs so MSU feels like it might be a better approach for them.

 

Fair.

 

However, Morale is pretty decent at times, others, not. Due to the rules, the Morale die must roll, and, if I don't like the result, I can reroll. The problem is, unless ATSKNF gains, "... and must keep the lower result," the rule itself is rather wasted. Large packs can take some casualties, from both the enemy as well as the morale phase. And, yes, the presence of so many WGSL and SCPL models within say three six strong packs is nice, the problem is, I'm using them as as mostly anti-chaff role assault unit. Everyone is reliably stuck with a basic Troops tax to get the large Detachments, especially Battalion and Brigade.

 

I enjoy the idea of 18 JP'ers going in as a mass, escorted by a wall of TWC with SS all around, and eight Frost Axes and a single TH on a WGBL on TW to soak and tank for the Skyclaw pack and attached HQ elements will likely see a rather decent sized unit hit whatever I decide to aim them both at, on the table.

 

The thing is, any pack sufficiently large enough will not be meant to make Lone Wolves; while it can, there's reasons not to, as well. My packs are meant to have some durability, or at least, hopefully; the problem is, again, the Morale phase die roll, and if need be, reroll, is not quite as good as it could be, and might be, after the Chapter Approved 2018 book lands.

 

So, here's the specifics of my SkyClaw pack mess.

SkyClaw Pack, all models below have Jump Packs:

14 SkyClaws, BP, CS

1 SkyClaw Pack Leader, BP, CS

1 Wolf Guard Sky Leader, BP, FA

1 Wolf Guard Battle Leader, BP, CS

1 Wolf Priest, BP, CA

 

404 points for the above. Yes, expensive; just deliver it, and watch the carnage!

[Karack Blackstone]

Oh, a major point of note.

 

Someone earlier in this thread noted that a Wolf Guard Biker pack could kick out four shots per shooting phase; it's actually eight!

 

Twin Boltguns can fire two shots at full range, or four at half and less. Also, the Combi-Plasma fires one or two BG shots, and the Plas of the Combi fires another one or two shots.

 

So, yes, four is correct, just 12+" out to 24." If, however, you're at 1" out to 12", you're sporting eight shots per model.

 

Have at! Also, full credit due to whoever thought this monstrosity of a pack up. That's going to bring some serious pain!

 

Edit:

 

TiguriusX looks like the one?

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349762-think-tank-hypothesizing-sw-unit-combos-options-etc/?p=5152976

[Kallas]

I have returned with another tale of glory and bloodshed: yes, it's another battle report, this time against the perfidious Tau! Once again, it is a 1750 ITC game.

Our lists:

Space Wolves

Battalion:

Wolf Lord (TH/SS, JP, Wulfen Stone, Warlord - Beastslayer)

Rune Priest (Sword, JP, Psychic Hood, Armour of Russ, Storm Caller, Tempest's Wrath)

Bjorn the Fell-handed (Twin Lascannon)

3 Bolter Inceptors

3x 5 Grey Hunters (B&C)

Rhino (2x SB)

Razorback (Twin Assault Cannon, SB)

Battalion:

3x WGBL (TH/SS, JP)

3x 5 Grey Hunters (B&C)

Rhino (2x SB)

Razorback (Twin AC, SB)

Tau

Battalion: T'au Sept

Fireblade

Longstrike (Ion, SMS)

2x 9 Fire Warriors (Rifles)

1x 10 Fire Warriors (Rifles)

2x Hammerheads (Ion, SMS)

Vanguard: Farsight Enclaves

Commander Farsight

Riptide (HBC, SMS, ATC, TL)

3 Crisis Suits (2x 3 CIBs, 1x 2 CIBs/Drone Controller)

- 6 Gun Drones

2 DX-4 Technical Drones

5 Shield Drones

Vanguard: Sa'cea Sept

Ethereal (Honour Blade, Puretide Chip, Warlord - Through Unity, Devastation)

3 Firesight Marksmen

So, a pretty potent Tau list, with some solid ranged firepower in the Riptide and Hammerheads, with the Crisis Suits being a nasty deep strike threat.

The mission we rolled was #5: Precious Cargo (again!) with the Search and Destroy (quarters) deployment. I lost the roll and my opponent chose the quarter with the biggest ruin.

Secondary Objectives:

Space Wolves:

Headhunter (Farsight, Longstrike, Ethereal, Fireblade and three Marksmen! Plenty to put in the dirt!)

Big Game Hunter (similar to the Ravagers from my previous game, the Hammerheads are things I cannot let run free, same with the Riptide, so might as well get points for them)

Butcher's Bill (lots of individual units, should be able to get this)

Tau:

Exactly the same! HH, BGH and BB.

Picture of (half of) the board (sorry! Didn't think about it until later in the game). I've tried to label some of it to give a somewhat depiction of deployment:

My deployment was roughly where the arrow shows, just shy of the bottom tower 'ruin', with my Rhinos up front, character nestled in the middle and Bjorn to the top left. Inceptors deep struck, with the Grey Hunters all embarked.

Tau castled their Fire Warriors in the top right ruins, with the Hammerheads in a downward line, Longstrike closest to the 'circle crater'. The Suits deep struck, with the Riptide just in front of the topmost Hammerhead.

I got the +1 to go first, and my opponent rolled a 1, so I took first turn, aiming to get a Storm Caller/Cloaked by the Storm off to protect my transports and get in his face ASAP. Fate, however, decided otherwise: he seized on me. Gah!

TAU T1

So to start off: "Ahhhhhhh !" This isn't going to be pretty. The Riptide with some Fire Warriors and Farsight move down towards the bottom right objective, with the 'Tide just getting into range of it. Hammerheads stay still. That's pretty much it.

Shooting: Teeth gritted, butthole clenched. Markerlights come in, targeting the lead/rightmost Rhino and the bottom left Razorback; he admitted he made a mistake as he triggered the Uplinked Markerlight stratagem to get 5 ML on the Rhino which was a bit overkill. The Rhino is obliterated, as is the ML'd RB, along with one of the Rhino's squads. Eesh. Could have been worse, but still far from ideal!

That's already 2 on Big Game Hunter and 1 on Butcher's Bill!

SW T1

Right, I have to get up on him and cut down some Tau. My GH that jumped out of the RB advance back to sit on my objective; my other disembarked squad can make it to the bottom right objective with a 6 on the advance...which they make! Score! Thanks to ObSec, that's now out of the Riptide's hands, and not only denies him the Hold More point, but gives it to me!

The other Rhino advances up to pop smoke, the other Razorback moves up just behind the tower ruin, out of LOS of the two non-Longstrike Hammerheads. Bjorn moves up behind the Rhino, as do the characters.

Psychic: Storm Caller fails (1,4, rerolled into...1, 4, oh well); Tempest's Wrath does go off...on a double 6; which causes 3 MW to my Rune Priest. Meep! But at least the Riptide is debuffed, so that's something, and I do pop CbtS to help weather next turn (and between CbtS, TW and Smoke, the Rhino is

all but immune to the Riptide!)

Shooting: Razorback opens up on the Shield Drones accompanying the Riptide (in preparation for the Hammers to go to work next turn) but only kills two. Bjorn, however, steps up to the plate; with Keen Senses, he drops Longstrike to three wounds remaining. Nice. Not much else, unfortunately.

Charge: I did jump one WGBL forward to attempt to get at the Riptide. Unfortunately, Tau overwatch was utterly brutal (even only hitting on 6s without the T'au Sept bonus!) and he got gunned down. Meep!

Round 1 Score: Tau: 7 - SW: 2

I scored Hold One and Hold More (good job Grey Hunters! Your sacrifice was not in vain!) but that's it.

He scored 1 HH (WGBL in overwatch), 2 BGH (Rhino and Razorback), Hold One, Kill One and Kill More.

Ruh roh.

TAU T2

Riptide sweeps further down a little and Farsight and the accompanying Fire Warriors press up to the objective. Hammerheads stay still. Crisis Suits and Gun Drones drop down on my Precious Cargo.

Shooting: Sa'cea stratagem is used and drops a ML on all of my clustered vehicles and characters. The Crisis Suits use the FE stratagem for +1 to hit and overcharge into Bjorn, but only cause about 3 wounds due to some mediocre wound rolls and some decent FNP. Smoked Rhino is battered by the Hammerheads, but survives. Riptide annihilates the Grey Hunters on his objective, but they did their job! Gun Drones try to thin out my backline GH unit, but cover saves them completely.

Ok, well that wasn't nearly as explosive as it could have been thankfully!

SW T2

Ok, I've got less ground to cover now: it's time to smash! Characters all jump towards the Riptide and Farsight. One unit of GH in the Rhino jump out to help kill off the screening Fire Warriors. Rhino moves around (degraded, so only moving 6") to hopefully tie up the Riptide before my characters charge in. Razorback stays still to hopefully eliminate the remaining Shield Drones. Bjorn moves to intercept the recently arrived Crisis Suits (and yes, I totally forgot to use Chooser of the Slain when they deployed...) Inceptors drop down to help deal with Suits (more specifically, annihilate the drones so that Bjorn can tear them up in melee).

Psychic: Let's hope my RP doesn't blow himself up! He doesn't! He fails to cast Storm Caller again, but debuffs the Riptide once more. Nice! I didn't choose to use CbtS at this point, as I felt that I could get my characters stuck in and thin out his shooting enough to not need it (plus the recently disembarked unit of GH would help to screen them).

Shooting: Ok, gotta deal with his suits quickly. Bjorn opens up the turn by obliterating Longstrike, who promptly explodes, putting some wounds on the other Hammerheads and killing a couple of Fire Warriors. Good job Old Timer! Inceptors and the backfield GH kill off all of the Gun Drones. Razorback finishes off the Shield Drones. Going well so far! Forward GH unit culls the screening Fire Warriors down to only about 5 left. Krak grenades into the Riptide do nothing, unfortunately.

Charge: Rhino makes his 6" charge into the Riptide, YES! Grey Hunters go into the Fire Warriors (only just!); then the RP jumps on to Farsight to lock him down; WGBLs and WL multi-charge everything, with one WGBL landing next to Farsight, the other reaching the Riptide. WL rolls badly and only reaches the Fire Warriors, but can pile in to Farsight. Bjorn also rolls poorly (rolled a 6 needing a 7, and I'd used my reroll already!), taking a couple of wounds in the process, but one of the Suits does overcharge itself to death! That's something at least!

Fight: Grey Hunters cut down the last Fire Warriors. WL smushes Farsight into a fine paste. The two WGBLs (one piling in) do...nothing to the Riptide, which made all 8 invulnerable saves!

Round 2 Score: Tau: 10 - SW: 8

I scored 1 on HH (Farsight), BB and 1 on BGH (Longstrike). I also got Hold One, Kill One/More.

He scored Hold One and Kill One, as well as scoring my Precious Cargo.

I'm closing the gap.

TAU T3

Riptide falls back, just closer to my WL than my other units:

Hammerheads stay where they are and some Fire Warriors pop out of the front of the castle.

Shooting: Another Sa'cea Orbital Markerlight Distribution drops a ML on my clustered units. The Riptide unloads on the WL, who emerges unscathed! Thank you Storm Shields! The Grey Hunters nearby, however, are not so lucky and get obliterated by Pulse Rifles and SMS, and the Rhino gets Ion'd to death; and then the RP eats a bunch of overcharged Ion shots. The Crisis Suits try to put the 3W remaining Bjorn down, but he stands firm with 1 left. Could have been more painful if my Wolf Lord had bitten the bullet.

Charge: My opponent hadn't realised that my characters would be able to intervene on him, even without a charge declared, so decided to just charge my WL to at least attack first. He achieves nothing and then the 13 Thunder Hammer hits bring him down (although unfortunately the WL didn't get the kill, oh well).

That wasn't too bad. I still have most of my characters. Bjorn is still kicking and closing on the Suits, with my Razorback untouched and my backfield almost cleared of Tau. I'm not dominant yet, but with the Riptide down and the Hammerheads in striking distance I might be able to take the lead.

SW T3

Characters jump forward to take the fight to the filthy Xenos! Inceptors move closer to the Crisis Suits, as does Bjorn. The forcibly disembarked unit of GH takes up the mantle of holding the bottom right objective.

Psyc- oh... Womp womp...

Shooting: Inceptors and backfield Grey Hunters pick off the last two Suits, leaving Bjorn to dump his Twin LC into another Hammerhead, putting 4 damage on the topmost one. Krak grenades into the bottom Hammerhead do nothing and the Razorback reaps a mighty toll on the exposed Fire Warriors killing, erm, one.

Charge: For the Emper-URGH! Both WGBL get killed in overwatch by the Hammerheads! AHHHH! On the plus side, the two supporting Fire Warrior squads used up their For The Greater Good shots, so my WL doesn't get shot by them. I admit that I tilted quite a bit at this point and just said, " it!" and had him charge both remaining Hammerheads. Thankfully, he tanked their shots properly (that's why he's the Wolf Lord!) but only reached the first one with his actual charge move.

Fight: WL splits his attacks (a mistake on my part) and cripples both Hammerheads, but then I use my last 3CP to Honour the Chapter and he obliterates them both, consolidating into the castle's ruins and into the Fireblade. He got maaaad when they killed his buddies.

Round 3 Score: Tau: 18 - SW: 15

I scored 3(!) on BGH, thanks to the Heroic Interventions and Captain Obregon (yes, I named all my dudes...) going totally ape on his Hammerheads. I also got Kill One, Hold One/More and Butcher's Bill.

He scored 3(!) on Headhunter, maxing it out; 1 on BB and 1 on BGH; and also Kill One/More and Hold One.

It's close, but Obregon is exposed. At least he's in a ruin and they have very little AP left.

TAU T4

Fireblade falls back to let the Fire Warriors try and bring down my Warlord.

Shooting: He doesn't have a whole lot left at this point, but he unloads it all into Obregon. Who tanks it like a champion! He suffered two wounds, but he's standing.

Charge/Fight: My opponent knows I'll just HI into him if he doesn't charge me first (his Fire Warriors had to get danger close due to the bottom floor ruins blocking LOS) so the two remaining units of FW charge in. They cause another 1 wound, but he pounds four of them flat in return.

SW T4

Ok, I'm now in a dominant position. My opponent's scoring has slowed down and basically capped out (he can't get any more Headhunter; he doesn't have the firepower to really get Big Game Hunter; and Butcher's Bill is unlikely too, plus he's castled up so can't really take my objectives away from me). Bjorn and the Razorback advance up to try and support Obregon, popping their still unused smoke as they close. The Inceptors advance +4" to try and close too.

Shooting: Nothing. I kept Obregon in melee to keep smashing away, so the only visible things are either engaged or characters.

Fight: Obregon splatters five more from the larger squad, taking no wounds in return.

Round 4 Score: Tau: 19 - SW: 17

Definitely closing now: I only scored Hold One/More, but he only scored Hold One. If this goes the distance, I'll eventually crawl past him.

TAU T5

My opponent has basically run out of options at this point. Everything but one Marksman and the Technical Drones move down ready to engage Obregon, with the FW falling back to make space/having been smushed.

Shooting: An errant Marksman Pulse Pistol shot bounces harmlessly off Bjorn, while the Fireblade fails to defeat Obregon's cover-improved armour.

Charge/Fight: The Ethereal, two Marksmen and the Fireblade charge Obregon desperately. The Ethereal slices off another wound, but Obregon stands: in return, he splatters one Marksman and the Ethereal. Artist's rendition of Captain Obregon's heroic stand:

SW T5

Obregon lives! What a monster he is. The Razorback, Inceptors and Bjorn continue trying to catch up, with the RB and Inceptors drawing a bead on some filthy Xenos.

Shooting: The Inceptors only manage to kill one Technical Drone, but the Razorback kills a bunch of the remaining FW: there are now only four in one squad and a lonesome Shas'ui in the other.

Charge/Fight: Bjorn makes a valiant surge and smushes the Fireblade trying to stab Obregon in the back. Obregon in turn smushes the second Marksman easily.

Round 5 Score: Tau: 20 - SW: 26(!)

With Obregon's incredible stand, he rocketed me ahead in points. I scored the last two Headhunter points; the last Butcher's Bill (I scored one on his turn: I believe that was an error, but either way I pick it up next turn) as well as all four of the regular primaries!

He only scored 1 for Hold One, as his FWs were still holding his Precious Cargo. The game is essentially over, but pride is on the line!

TAU T6

He only has 1 Technical Drone, 5 Fire Warriors and 1 Marksman left. They try to fell Obregon, but he lives again! And that's it for the last Tau turn.

SW T6

Bjorn swings around the ruin, while Obregon jumps up the ruin to go for the last cowardly Marksman. The Inceptors and Razorback also sweep round.

Shooting: The Razorback obliterates the singleton FW while the Inceptors kill the other four; Bjorn shoots down the Drone and then...

Charge/Fight: Obregon leaps up, dodging the last ditch Pulse Pistol in overwatch before declaring the ruin his own castle! With the Marksman's death, the Tau are tabled.

Round 6 Score: Tau: 21 - SW: 31(!)

I scored all five primaries (and possibly my errant Butcher's Bill point, if I played that wrong, as I killed four units that turn) to vault up into the 30s with my opponent only scoring 1 more for holding his objective in his turn.

So, it was a bloody game and had the potential to really hurt when I got seized upon. However, I feel like the list is pretty resilient (for Marines).

Some thoughts then:

• Grey Hunters: The multiple basic units of Grey Hunters were great this game. One unit sat on my backfield objective all game, did basically nothing but ensured that I kept my opponent honest in the objective primaries, and ended up enabling my front line to take the second for most of the game, giving me a steady stream of points. I had one units wiped T1, with another dying T2 after causing no casualties but getting me a point, so 1/3rd of my Grey Hunters did no damage but were damn useful in being nuisances/distractions. Another squad shielded my characters from the majority of my opponents guns and helped cut down some screening Fire Warriors; the fifth squad did basically the same job as the first, dropping out to hold on to a second objective to amplify my stream of victory points; and my sixth didn't even need to get involved! So yes, I am definitely impressed with the bare bones Grey Hunters, and I am absolutely behind them compared to tooled up, expensive versions of them. I would consider the addition of WGPL with just Storm Bolters/Chainswords (possibly Storm Shields for AP tanking), but that would have to be at 2000pts, as at 1750 the points just aren't there.
• Inceptors: didn't really achieve a whole lot, but they were useful as a counter unit, dropping down to strip away the Crisis Suits' ablative Gun Drones (and actually killed the last two when Bjorn failed his charge). For 135pts, they're a good unit, just need to be cautious to not throw them away too easily like I did against the Dark Eldar.
• Bjorn: Got to be the boss he is always meant to be. He unfortunately only made it into melee once, as he would have happily smushed the Crisis Suits into a fine paste had he rolled one higher! As it was, he managed to kill Longstrike, which was damn useful, as I'm not sure that Obregon could have gone through three Hammerheads solo, and the extra chip damage on a second Hammerhead definitely helped enable him. Didn't get the full opportunity to shine, but he's a tough old dog for sure: T8/5+ FNP was useful in keeping him ticking over when the suits dropped behind him.
• Transports: The Rhinos did an admirable job of absorbing early damage: one bought the farm T1, but that minimised the fire into my actual primary scoring units; the other hung on long enough to soak a good amount of firepower as well as eat the overwatch of the Riptide, helping my characters get stuck in - very good investments. The Razorbacks were similar but with a more offensive bent: the first was essentially a glorified Rhino, but the other stripped away the Riptide's protective Shield Drones, killed some Fire Warriors and generally just lurked, taking the shots it was given. For 114pts, they're great.
• Rune Priest: Performed reasonably well as a debuff unit (as his buff kept failing!) with Tempest's Wrath really helping in keeping the Riptide's damage down some before it could get hammered into the dirt like the bad Xenos it was! His unfortunate perils got him killed quicker than I would have liked, but dice are dice. His presence meant that Farsight died like a true punk: doing absolutely nothing! So yeah; Armour of Russ is the best Relic in the book (Wulfen Stone is great, but for sheer combat-shifting power, the Armour of Russ is incomparable).
• Battle Leaders: They all died ignominious deaths this game, with all three dying to overwatch (one to the Riptide; the others to the Hammerheads)! Two did make a huge difference in putting the Riptide down though, as it would have survived the Wolf Lord alone, and their wound reroll buff was definitely useful.

And of course, the man of the hour...

• Captain 'Wonderboy' Obregon: I was often a little underwhelmed when I ran him as the original Blood Angels Captain Smash. Sure the D4 Thunder Hammer and no Overwatch JP were useful, but he just lacked a certain... je ne c'est quoi. With his modification into a Wolf Lord he has become the terrifying monster that I have always imagined Space Marine Company Commanders being: hitting on 2s and wounding most things in the game on 2s with 5 attacks is great; throw in the resilience of the Storm Shield and he is brutal. This game he carved a bloody swathe through the Tau (see image below!) and was instrumental in victory. He definitely had the Emperor's Grace, as he absorbed a horrendous amount of punishment (a full Riptide volley, albeit at a -1 from Tempest's Wrath; 57 Pulse Rifles shots; multiple Ion Cannon and SMS overwatch shots; an Ethereal's Honour Blade) and just kept on trucking.

• Quite simply, a TH/SS Jump Pack Wolf Lord with Wulfen Stone and Saga of the Beastslayer is a wrecking ball. I would recommend taking at least a non-Warlord one in every list, and I would definitely recommend the Beastslayer Wolf Lord just to make it a serious threat to everything on the table.

• Kill count this game: Commander Farsight; Hammerhead x2; Fire Warrior x9; Firesight Marksman x3; Ethereal; (assist) Riptide.

Obregon's path of destruction:

Hopefully my insights are useful. If anyone has any questions about the game/any probing into my thoughts during the game, please fire away.

[WolfLordZeev]

Hmm nice @kallas. I think against Tau I wouldnt take stormcaller on my rune priest. They simply have too many ways of ignoring cover and its a hard to cast power. I would opt for living lightning as mortal wounds gets around a lot of the tau drone shenanigans. Its also easy to cast so easy to proc the strat off of.

[Kallas]

Hmm nice @kallas. I think against Tau I wouldnt take stormcaller on my rune priest. They simply have too many ways of ignoring cover and its a hard to cast power. I would opt for living lightning as mortal wounds gets around a lot of the tau drone shenanigans. Its also easy to cast so easy to proc the strat off of.

Storm Caller is a fine power in principle, and so far it's been good in application but it is, as you say, sometimes hard to get off. It's definitely a solid power when it does go off I just rolled badly for it this game (I think the attempts were 1->1, 4 and 1,3!). And while these Tau did have quite a few SMS, they themselves weren't the real threats to my vehicles and having a 4+ save vs his Ion/HBC would've been very handy, but that's dice for you.

 

Edit: Living Lightning could have worked quite nicely against the Drones, but he thankfully didn't have too many, and it does have the same restriction as Smite for hitting the closest target so it's not always viable for Drone removal.

[TiguriusX]

Kallas you need your own battle report thread

 

My favorite is the john madden style telestrator showing his turn by turn path of destruction hahaha

 

keep it up!

[Kallas]

Kallas you need your own battle report thread

 

My favorite is the john madden style telestrator showing his turn by turn path of destruction hahaha

 

keep it up!

Haha, thanks, I might make a BatRep thread, especially if I can keep up one game every one or two weeks (hurray for leagues), and I feel like he deserved that kind of acknowledgement as he really was the MVP!

[WolfLordZeev]

 

 

Hmm nice @kallas. I think against Tau I wouldnt take stormcaller on my rune priest. They simply have too many ways of ignoring cover and its a hard to cast power. I would opt for living lightning as mortal wounds gets around a lot of the tau drone shenanigans. Its also easy to cast so easy to proc the strat off of.

Storm Caller is a fine power in principle, and so far it's been good in application but it is, as you say, sometimes hard to get off. It's definitely a solid power when it does go off I just rolled badly for it this game (I think the attempts were 1->1, 4 and 1,3!). And while these Tau did have quite a few SMS, they themselves weren't the real threats to my vehicles and having a 4+ save vs his Ion/HBC would've been very handy, but that's dice for you.

 

Edit: Living Lightning could have worked quite nicely against the Drones, but he thankfully didn't have too many, and it does have the same restriction as Smite for hitting the closest target so it's not always viable for Drone removal.

They also ignore cover with 3 marker light hits...which is hardly difficult to achieve. But yes....the sms as well. Most matchups I agree that storm caller is a good choice. Tau are an exception since they have a lot of answers. Also in ITC you choose powers at the start of the match not in your list its not like your locked into the choice.

[Karack Blackstone]

Quick question: Battlescribe insists that the SkyClaw Pack maximum is 10, yet, the Codex itself lists two numbers, the one used in the points and unit sizes section, and a separate value, on the actual unit entry table that is the overall guide as to what the first value mentioned is at.

 

Is the FAQ on the horizon, or waiting, or...? Is this issue known about by GW?

 

I'm going to have to email GW about the problem just to ensure that the problem is known. I love the idea of 15 SkyClaws charging into the enemy, frothing at the mouth, rending the enemy like a wolf striking after a leap, with the bite strength of a shark.

 

Still, this seems... odd? I get that the Codex had a flaw that was known, the extra page. I just wonder why this one slipped through as well.