State of Forge World

[Captain_Krash]

Ahhh the days of Armorcast.

 

Krash

[N1SB]

Thanks for correcting me on FW's origins.  So FW started as basically specialty bits for GW kits, then did some terrain and those busts (I remember the Commissar with the Chainsword now that you mention it), then HH, then Specialty games.

 

I do think that HH will eventually move more and more into plastic with FW making upgrades and weapons since that strategy has worked really well for them with Necromunda and BB (and probably AT in the future), but I have to admit the three punch combo of LCTB, the price hike and the dropping of the Calth and Prospero boxes has the HH hurting.

 

Credit where it's due, it was from listening to Brother Monolith who really followed how HH was transitioning to plastic that I learned and lead me to his way of thinking because it makes sense.  I was thinking of how GW was just letting FW design Specialist Games then printing it for them in plastic, but the best example were Calth and Prospero.

 

Then DAYS after that discussion, we saw Mk III and MK IV armour on FW's resin LCTB.  That's actually the ideal arrangement, you get the plastic 30k Marines, then buy upgrades.  The Contemptor is that way, too, which was why I kinda maybe think the Leviathan is possibly the next, because it looks easy to do and is the next most popular thing.

 

I don't know how future 30k plastics will be introduced, like if it's like a simplified game like Calth or Prospero or just a Specialty Game.  I just imagine 30k plastics, some cool FW-designed but GW-printed plastic terrain, then a nice rulebook possibly like the FW HH Black Books with the basic AoD rules and a bunch of narrative scenarios going into a new phase like the Siege of Terra maybe.  Like a change to production has to be made just for scalability's sake...well, this looks like a pretty good trigger for it after the next HH book.  I just see it as a premium, top shelf product.

 

My immediate point of reference is the recent AdTit Grandmaster boxset.  The models were plastic, but if anything that's actually better, and as soon as I opened the hardbound leather rulebook WITH the ribbon bookmark...whoa.  THIS high production value was why I love FW.  The rules even had Rites of War-like things.  The fact that I bought it conveniently at the Warhammer Store instead of the FW website was a bonus.

 

I suspect HH is simply too popular for its own good

 

^ This is a perfect summation, well said.

 

Resin is good for small-runs, but after a threshold, transition it to plastic, was what my plastic injection molding engineer friend told me.  HH seemed to have passed that point long ago.  I know this thread is the State of FW, but we immediately associate it with 30k for good reason.  I agree FW is like the experimental wing, but HH is no longer an experiment, it's a proven success.

 

So now that HH has really grown, maybe it's time for FW to transition to something else, as it has already done before, and is already doing with Specialist Games.

 

And I'm most curious about what FW will do next, tbh.

[sarabando]

I think Subtle Discord might be onto something.

 

It would be awesome to see more of HH in plastic. But what? Are they going to do the common units and vehicles? MkII Rhinos? Plastic Sicarans? I mean without moving onto plastic vehicles I don't think their is really much need for more plastic infantry.

plastic rhino with a FW turret for preds and whirlwinds, plastic bikes, plastic assault marines mk2 or 6, new plastic contemptor with decent posable legs, maybe even a land raider or sicarian with FW turrets.

[Xwingt65]

 

I think people here overestimate the damage the price changes will do to sales. I only recently made my first FW purchase, but even with the price changes I know I'll buy again. Everyone I know who plays feels the same or wasn't going to buy from FW anyway.

No, I think you are severely underestimating the possible long term damage. I have watched a couple youtube videos and listened to one major 30k podcast. You have people that have spent on the 5 digit range on multiple or large FW only 30k armies swearing off buying anything else from FW. You realise that for the entire continent of Australia that FW was somethings cheaper than mainline GW? Well I best there sales there are going to drop fairly close to zero.

FW was always hard to justify for me as it was. Now it's very easy to say 'Nope'.

But is their “never again” stance legit? I mean when the next book and/or Blood Angels start dropping, my bet is that they will be back at it.

[SickSix]

But is their “never again” stance legit? I mean when the next book and/or Blood Angels start dropping, my bet is that they will be back at it.

I think it will be for a lot of folks. Especially Australia. All they have to do is wait a few weeks to get what they wamt off ebay at a greatly reduced price. Books will really be the only thing you can't get elsewhere (physical copies). So if all you care about is rules, you can get those elsewhere as well.

[Elzender]

N1SB, I really hope what you and other fraters are commenting turns out true.

 

However, it would be really nice of FW to make some kind of statement to reign in a bit the disappointment and "uproar" from their last actions. It wouldn't even be necessary to unveil their plans, just saying that something big is coming, and that the LCTB "victims" might not be condemned to oblivion would go a long way to ease the unrest among the consumer base. Plus, it might generate some hype and positive expectations for FW followers, who as of late have not received a lot of good news.

And sincerely, the timing for GW to discontinue both Heresy big boxes could not be any worse. I hope that means that the next heresy plastic release is relatively close, or the impact on the Heresy playerbase might be too hard to recover.

 

Then again, we all know where this road leads, but we might as well walk it with our fingers crossed :D.

[sarabando]

 

But is their “never again” stance legit? I mean when the next book and/or Blood Angels start dropping, my bet is that they will be back at it.

I think it will be for a lot of folks. Especially Australia. All they have to do is wait a few weeks to get what they wamt off ebay at a greatly reduced price. Books will really be the only thing you can't get elsewhere (physical copies). So if all you care about is rules, you can get those elsewhere as well.

 

Six is spot on its not about never buying minis again its about not buying them from GW/FW. I buy most of my stuff from ebay/FB/3rd party retailers. GW very rarely sees my money directly, a 2nd hand sale is still only 1 sale to GW.

[Wargamer]

Also, at the risk of beating a dead horse, all the HH content I watch on Youtube makes it clear that recasters get a lot of business from the Land of Oz. As long as GW is selling in the UK, China will sell to Australia.

[Laughingman]

Even in the US, I willing to bet in 30k community like 45-50% of  FW miniatures are recasts anyway... The price increases are only gonna increase that number...

[Ishagu]

Forgeworld isn't going anywhere. They might focus more and more on specialist games and less and less on the Horus Heresy.

 

Imo, the HH should be an expansion of regular 40k and not it's own game. When I used to play HH only about 25% of my games were against other HH armies. They need to update the rules for 8th so that the armies can be used in pick up games again.

 

Recasts are a big concern, maybe more of FW will move to plastics. I wonder if they'll make upgrade sprues for Primaris stuff soon? New turrets for the Repulsor, new arms for the Redemptor.

[Xwingt65]

Forgeworld isn't going anywhere. They might focus more and more on specialist games and less and less on the Horus Heresy.

Imo, the HH should be an expansion of regular 40k and not it's own game. When I used to play HH only about 25% of my games were against other HH armies. They need to update the rules for 8th so that the armies can be used in pick up games again.

Recasts are a big concern, maybe more of FW will move to plastics. I wonder if they'll make upgrade sprues for Primaris stuff soon? New turrets for the Repulsor, new arms for the Redemptor.

I hope so.

 

I am honestly surprised there hasn’t been more Primaris related releases from FW. Where are the chapter upgrades for the Redemptor?

[Ishagu]

Yeah exactly! There are 30 Landraider variants and loads of Rhino/Razorback/Dreadnought options.

 

I'd have assumed new turrets for Repulsors and alternative Redemptor arm options to be the most obvious things to release as quickly as possible.

 

 

Frankly this is a poor show from them!

[Robbienw]

Well there are doors for the repulsors. And the Astraes tanks.

 

I get the feeling though that those in charge of FW aren’t keen on Primaris and have done the minimum they were asked to do for them and left it at that.

[Ishagu]

Well, they'd better get on board with the program!

 

They've had a full year to release characters, upgrades, etc. The bare minimum isn't good enough.

Forgeworld have to change to remain relevant, or become completely irrelevant outside of the specialist games.

[D3L]

Well, they'd better get on board with the program!

 

They've had a full year to release characters, upgrades, etc. The bare minimum isn't good enough.

Forgeworld have to change to remain relevant, or become completely irrelevant outside of the specialist games.

I think they know better about how well Primaris were received ;-)

[Robbienw]

No, that’s enough for now as it’s small range. It’s only 5 infantry kits, 2 vehicles and a handful of characters.

 

They still have the HH to concentrate on with the BA and white scar models that will be coming out for the next book, plus the specialist games which seem to be a runaway success.

 

Added to that there are other 40k factions who have just as much chance of getting stuff as Primaris.

 

Also, for all you know, the GW studio may have told FW to hold off on doing anything for them, because they are still deciding future design directions for the Primaris to go in. GW have not done any significant releases for them themselves in over a year, except for a few minor character and upgrade bits.

[sockwithaticket]

Yeah exactly! There are 30 Landraider variants and loads of Rhino/Razorback/Dreadnought options.

 

I'd have assumed new turrets for Repulsors and alternative Redemptor arm options to be the most obvious things to release as quickly as possible.

 

 

Frankly this is a poor show from them!

The regular marine options have been building over many years. As you point out in one of your other posts, they've only really had about a year for Primaris related stuff and this at a time when we know their limited creative resources have been dedicated to a bunch of other things, particularly specialist games. 

Robbienw kind of nails it with this the below, for all anyone knows the lack of Primaris stuff could be deliberate or incidental

 

Also, for all you know, the GW studio may have told FW to hold off on doing anything for them, because they are still deciding future design directions for the Primaris to go in. GW have not done any significant releases for them themselves in over a year, except for a few minor character and upgrade bits.

 

Either way a year really isn't that long and while you and others may really like Primaris, they're not the only product line GW/FW have to deal with. 

[Ishagu]

No, that’s enough for now as it’s small range. It’s only 5 infantry kits, 2 vehicles and a handful of characters.

 

They still have the HH to concentrate on with the BA and white scar models that will be coming out for the next book, plus the specialist games which seem to be a runaway success.

 

Added to that there are other 40k factions who have just as much chance of getting stuff as Primaris.

 

Also, for all you know, the GW studio may have told FW to hold off on doing anything for them, because they are still deciding future design directions for the Primaris to go in. GW have not done any significant releases for them themselves in over a year, except for a few minor character and upgrade bits.

Small but very popular, significant and vitally important for the brand. They should be on it like a rash.

It need support precisely because it's limited - Forgeworld could have provided something like CC weapons for Inceptors that would be very popular with the community.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

Small but very popular, significant and vitally important for the brand. They should be on it like a rash.

It need support precisely because it's limited - Forgeworld could have provided something like CC weapons for Inceptors that would be very popular with the community.

 

Why would they do that though? Primaris aren't Munda gangs, it seems likely that GW will want to keep as much of the range, especially 'important' stuff in the 'main' range and plastic. Something like CC Inceptors (along with Sniper Reivers, CC Intercessors, AT Agressors, new tank etc.) are exactly the sort of thing I'd expect GW to do in a 'Primaris 2nd wave', rather than farming out to FW.

[Ishagu]

I think GW should be focusing on the new kits, ad FW on weapon variations and upgrades for them- it's what they've done for years, after all.

[sockwithaticket]

I think GW should be focusing on the new kits, ad FW on weapon variations and upgrades for them- it's what they've done for years, after all.

How many plastic Space Marine infantry kits had resin upgrades over the years?

 

Until the plastic Mk. IV marines the vast majority of resin upgrades were specifically for HH resin stuff, but people happened to use them on existing non-HH plastics because the designs were cool, different and compatible. 

[Leif Bearclaw]

Why do you think it wouldn't be new kits though? The entire posing of the Inceptor kit is very 'shooty' (especially the legs being out in front), they would look weird if they were just given cc weapons. Whereas a new kit would allow them to tweak the posing (which I would assume is realativley easy in CAD) while adding the new gear, giving us a better quality, more thematic model. And GW could then charge full kit price instead of a cheaper upgrade kit. They could have done Hellblasters as an upgrade kit, just plasma guns for your Intercessors.  But they did a full kit instead. Why would they do it differently for other Primaris troop types?

[Ishagu]

In response to sockwithaticket:

 

Right now there are 82 different infantry upgrade sets compatible with 40k miniatures lol

[Robbienw]

 

No, that’s enough for now as it’s small range. It’s only 5 infantry kits, 2 vehicles and a handful of characters.

 

They still have the HH to concentrate on with the BA and white scar models that will be coming out for the next book, plus the specialist games which seem to be a runaway success.

 

Added to that there are other 40k factions who have just as much chance of getting stuff as Primaris.

 

Also, for all you know, the GW studio may have told FW to hold off on doing anything for them, because they are still deciding future design directions for the Primaris to go in. GW have not done any significant releases for them themselves in over a year, except for a few minor character and upgrade bits.

Small but very popular, significant and vitally important for the brand. They should be on it like a rash.

It need support precisely because it's limited - Forgeworld could have provided something like CC weapons for Inceptors that would be very popular with the community.

Very popular? Probably, they are space marines after all, and a starter type army, but would need to see actual figures from GW to determine relative popularity. Vitally important for the brand? That is just hyperbolic nonsense. GW would be doing just fine now if Primaris hadn’t been invented.

 

I’d let GW fill the Primaris out further before getting angry and having a tantrum at Forgeworld.

[Leif Bearclaw]

And how many of them are for options that can't be got in plastic? Only ones off the top of my head would be things like the Volkites and Rotor Cannons, which don't have 40k rules. Shoulder Pads and alternate designs of existing weapons aren't really the same as saying 'give me completely new weapon options'.